t5
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Post by t5 on May 26, 2021 15:37:00 GMT
krewster ... I used Astrocalc to calculate the natal and 43H charts of David Bowie's natal chart ... It calculates natal Moon at 03Leo50, whereas Sirius3 calculates it at 03Leo59 ... and that 10 arc minutes difference makes Moon-43H-Neptune an exact aspect in Astrocalc. However, even if his Moon-Neptune does manifest more strongly in aspects other than the 43H, that would not prevent it from also manifesting as a 43H trait ... but we might need to cherry-pick (as I did) in order to see/notice it. (So, if David Cochrane/Vibrational Astrologers had not given us the 43H working interpretation of "weak sense of identity", I would not have looked at the 43H chart of David Bowie.)
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t5
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Post by t5 on May 26, 2021 16:42:32 GMT
Ava ... 3H = I have a talent : 5H = My talent involves my intellect. ... 11H = The world/others will never change my views. (Dogged defiance) : 13H = I need to change, or the world/others will never listen to me. (Search for one's identity.) After John Addey presented his paper on harmonics to the astrological community, the interpretations of numerology were initially used as working interpretations for harmonic aspect numbers. But now, harmonic aspect interpretations are evidence-based rather than based upon intuition. However, the evidence indicates that the meanings of harmonic aspects and those of numerology probably have the same root(s). My guess that both have their root(s) in chapter 1 of the biblical story of Genesis.
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t5
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Post by t5 on May 29, 2021 16:12:21 GMT
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Post by Ava on May 29, 2021 16:42:35 GMT
It's a great show t5, I've watched a few episodes and their enthusiasm is contagious! Also when I asked a question, Cochrane answered...very helpful.
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t5
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Post by t5 on May 31, 2021 6:58:35 GMT
Ava lumina ... In the first Astrology Show video, David Cochrane makes the point that two people with strong H5 charts will enjoy "playing together, intellectually". Since the two of you do that regularly on this forum, his comment prompted me to draw your mutual Davison Chart, and run through its first 32 harmonics ... to see if it threw up any harmonic charts with 4-planet-conjunctions. And it did ... H16 : H24 : H26 : H32 ... Three of which are 100% the "seeking feedback" H2-series, and the other (H26) is seeking H2 feedback on "testing one's limits" (H13). The H5 chart series has 4-planet-conjunctions at H40 + H50, and 3-planet-conjunctions appear in H15 + H30 + H35 ... So, "playing together, intellectually" is a strong component in your relationship ... BUT, would you agree that "learning from each other, via feedback" is an even stronger component in your relationship?
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Post by Ava on May 31, 2021 12:52:13 GMT
I've been learning from lumina all along t5...she's way more advanced, she read many astrology books before I knew how to read a chart. I guess in some ways playing gives rise to learning, so the two are intermixed. We joke around and experiment with ideas and sometimes things happen where we say "Ah, it DOES work like that!" Learning together.
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Post by lumina on May 31, 2021 13:42:25 GMT
Ava , t5 I may have read some books, but Ava , I think we are learning from each other, just by exploring the different methods, and modifying certain approaches, testing the applicability to reality, too. What works, what doesn`t, and we take turns in bringing up new stuff, though often it hooks into what has come up before, and is being deepened. I would say, it is a combination, it is not "one is stronger than the other", but basically that "playing, intellectually" and "learning from feedback" is happening simultaneously and of equal value. At least how I see this. BTW I think that is, to a certain degree, also present in my connection with P, where feedback is a large part of what happens, though it`s probably me giving the most feedback, usually unasked. lol But then again, he`s been asking me about my take on things, too, so I guess he likes hearing it, at least most of the time. There is also quite a bit of "inspiring" going on, by that playing with creative options, I`d say. Or in the course of that personal development happens. So in this regard I find it interesting that our Davison has a Quintile Yod, consisting of Moon, Mars and Neptune, I guess that would show up in the 5th harmonic of our Davison, as it is reasonably close (also interesting to me, our first meeting chart has a Quintile Yod as well, but this time consisting of Venus, Mars and Moon - and possibly Pluto, as Pluto is conjunct MOon in this, but maybe it is out of orb for a vibrational chart, I would have to check. Just thought it was interesting that Moon and Mars were coming up again. and well in my own chart I have a very close Moon-Mars-quintile, and I think he might have a Moon-Mars-decile but I am not quite sure about that in his chart, would need to check.)
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Post by Ava on May 31, 2021 14:48:28 GMT
Well said, lumina . Which is the apex planet in that quintile yod? I don't know if this matters but I found it interesting, the 5th harmonic chart for when my ex contacted me after 20 years. My 5th harmonic Mercury @ 25 Gemini but otherwise I wouldn't say this transit hits my 5th harmonic strongly. It wasn't actually a fun moment for me (intellectual play) but I could see how it would be for him. Pls don't quote
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Post by Ava on May 31, 2021 15:10:43 GMT
And it did ... H16 : H24 : H26 : H32 ... Three of which are 100% the "seeking feedback" H2-series, and the other (H26) is seeking H2 feedback on "testing one's limits" (H13). So, are all the even harmonics about seeking feedback? In my case above, as a correspondence it was obviously about seeking feedback; the 10th harmonic has many conjunctions, as one can tell from the tight orbs there in the 5th. There is also an exact trine of Saturn-Neptune to Mercury in the 10th, so I checked the 30th.... And with all THOSE trines, had to see the 90th... Pretty cool visual anyway.
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Post by lumina on May 31, 2021 19:09:28 GMT
Well said, lumina . Which is the apex planet in that quintile yod? Wanna guess?
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Post by lumina on May 31, 2021 19:17:17 GMT
Ava your 5th harmonic Mercury was really affected though!!! Just remember that in the 5th harmonic chart an orb of 5 degrees equals 1 degree orb in the "normal" chart, so that was a pretty close transit of Tr Venus-Mars-SN to your Mercury. But of course with that tight of a Moon-Pluto in the chart itself, there is something very profound, deep, but possibly also uncomfortably intense in this. As for the seeking feedback, I think that is one way of seeing the series 2, but I often find that oppositions in a harmonic chart (and hence bringing the factor 2 into it), means that another person or a group is brought nto this. It does not necessarily mean feedback, but you have take the other party into account. Simple example: 5th harmonic is very much about playing or creating just because of the playing/ creating itself. A person just indulging in these kind of things, without really considering the effects, or how it would be received or even other people. Inherently it is pretty egocentric actually. the 10th harmonic brings another person into play, literally. This could be over feedback, to see how your results of the playing/ creating are received, but it also could be simply "playing/ creating WITH somebody else" (which is probably the reason, that very often charts of stage actors, have strong oppositions in their 5th harmonic charts, they do need a) the other actors, unless they want to do a one man show and b) the audience, obviously)
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Post by lumina on May 31, 2021 19:24:18 GMT
BTW that is the 5th harmonic of the Davison chart (with P)
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Post by Ava on Jun 1, 2021 2:50:05 GMT
Thanks luminaI was going to say Venus is the apex of your Davison quintile yod (based on fuzzy memory) but looking at the chart above, Mars between the moon and Venus, so it's Mars? That does look like a fun chart, by the way..10th must be crazier. No wonder live performances can be "so much" especially with Uranus there! Very interesting about the difference between 5th and 10th, thanks for elaborating a bit. I'd mentioned my wedding before....just some of the main conjunctions here, all 10H: 7.54 Pisces, my sun 5 Pisces, transiting 10H ASC-DSC, NN-SN (when the wedding began) 9 Pisces, tr Mercury (conjunct Pluto, 14 Pisces, conjunct his Jupiter 18 Pisces, conjunct sun 26 Pisces) 7 Virgo, tr Neptune 10 Virgo, my Jupiter 18 Libra, my ASC-DSC 18 Libra, husband's sun 19 Libra, Davison Venus There are other connections, astro.com is glitching and I'm tired though. I was just amazed by the sun-DSC stuff mainly.
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Post by lumina on Jun 1, 2021 8:52:16 GMT
AvaFor simplicity sake, that is the basic Davison chart.
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Post by Ava on Jun 1, 2021 11:39:46 GMT
Shoulda known lumina , LOL. I was kind of in a daze yesterday. Random comment on VA: Clarissa Dolphin on that first VA Show episode said she sees inherited trauma in the quincunxes in the 9H. Sounds random but my father and I both have Mars quincunx Neptune in the 9H. I just don't know how to unpack that any further. None of my children have it.
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t5
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Post by t5 on Jun 1, 2021 15:23:49 GMT
Ava and lumina ... I am currently painting the metal downpipes and guttering on the exterior of my house, so no time available to add anything of value to the present conversation between the two of you. But :- 1. Bear in mind that lumina and P both have 4-planet conjunctions in the 45H of their natal charts ... So, they will already "know" why/how 9H/joy is found in 5H/thinking. 2. 9H/novile x 12H/quincunx = 9H/joy x 3H/pleasure x 4H/tackling a problem = 27H/COMPLACENCY x 4H/tackling a problem ... Hence, the trauma in this lifetime is (perhaps) caused by the "inherited" past life behavioural trait of failing to tackle problems. 3. When we play with others, is that not in itself a mechanism for seeking feedback from them? Why does the ego need to be consciously/actively seeking feedback from another in order for the soul to be actually obtaining feedback by interacting with them? 4. The quintile yod in the davison chart of lumina and P is focused by Uranus (opposite apex plant Mars). So, theoretically, Uranus might have caused problems in the early stages of the relationship - but what is/was learned from that should help to achieve the Mars objective.
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Post by lumina on Jun 1, 2021 15:56:37 GMT
AvaInteresting thought about the 9th, but if it is true and the 9th is also about healing, it makes sense of course. Well curiously P has a yod in his 9th with saturn as the apex. Hmm no personal planets though.
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Post by Ava on Jun 2, 2021 0:33:59 GMT
2. 9H/novile x 12H/quincunx = 9H/joy x 3H/pleasure x 4H/tackling a problem = 27H/COMPLACENCY x 4H/tackling a problem ... Hence, the trauma in this lifetime is (perhaps) caused by the "inherited" past life behavioural trait of failing to tackle problems. So, failing to even attempt to tackle the problem, out of complacency? I guess that works. There was also resignation from being constricted within a kind of demanding family structure (my Irish Catholic "clan" and the religion it was integrated into.) 3. When we play with others, is that not in itself a mechanism for seeking feedback from them? Why does the ego need to be consciously/actively seeking feedback from another in order for the soul to be actually obtaining feedback by interacting with them? Not sure. If I'm following you right, you're alluding to my answer to this question? "BUT, would you agree that 'learning from each other, via feedback' is an even stronger component in your relationship?"I answered in a divided way because I thought you were posing the question in a divided way, where one impulse is stronger than the other. One harmonic dominating another? If you're just posing the question philosophically, well I like your question.
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t5
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Post by t5 on Jun 2, 2021 5:51:23 GMT
Ava ... Yes. 27H complacency arises from "being in the zone" ... So, we see no problem that is needing to be tackled - because all is well in our world. Thus, it is very different from the kind of complacency in which we know there is a problem and choose to do nothing about it. (And that is perhaps why, when the 108H problem comes home to roost, we might see it as 'inherited trauma"/an event outside our control rather than the result of our 27H x 4H habitual behavioural trait.) That is indeed how I posed the question ... but your answer prompted me to then reflect further upon what I am trying to convey when referring to "feedback" via the 2H-series of harmonics. ... And it now seems to me that I am giving the impression that "ACTIVELY seeking feedback" is a conscious/deliberate act by the ego rather than by the soul. In reality though, I view all/any interactions (of any kind) as attempts by the soul to actively seek feedback from the other. ... Hence, when two people play, both are (at the soul level) actively seeking feedback from each other - but the process is more enjoyable than when interacting negatively. [Perhaps what I am actually trying to say here is that "habitual behaviour traits are driven by the subconscious mind rather than the conscious mind".)
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Post by Ava on Jun 2, 2021 12:56:33 GMT
Yes. 27H complacency arises from "being in the zone" ... So, we see no problem that is needing to be tackled - because all is well in our world. I can see that. My father, for example, never locked doors. When I was a young teenager and we lived alone together, it didn't occur to me to lock them either. So it was either strangers or ghosts walking through our house at night. WHY wouldn't a person just simply lock the doors, especially with noises in the house? Well, it would just disrupt and threaten our sense of coziness and safety, to even mentally confront the issue. Obviously. Not sure what may have happened in his childhood to give rise to this willful blindness or...insistence on tempting fate. His parents were cold and distant stoics, and he may have felt the only time they showed they cared was when he was in bodily danger or something, so he learned to become ambivalent towards it, since he felt it came with some kind of reward (?). Or maybe it didn't come with a reward, he was just somewhat ambivalent towards his own life because his parents seemed so indifferent. I may have absorbed a little of that, not that my parents were cold, but a layer of protection that I felt should have been there was not. Pls don't quote, may erase later [Perhaps what I am actually trying to say here is that "habitual behaviour traits are driven by the subconscious mind rather than the conscious mind".) I don't know...sometimes I confront my own resistance to doing basic productive things and it's really peculiar. In my mind, I chalk it up to my Mars semisquare Saturn, imaginary friction.
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