t5
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Post by t5 on May 11, 2021 9:54:08 GMT
Lumina posted earlier in the thread that "I read that whatever harmonic chart contains Sun conjunct Moon, is a very important one."
If so, that would make my 75H, 119H and 194H charts significant.
75H = 3H x 25H = An already well-developed talent/skill (25H), that comes naturally/easily (3H).
119H = 7H x 17H = inspired (7H) to campaign for change (17H).
194H = 2H x 97H = (unknown, as I currently have no interpretation for the 97H).
In my 75H chart, Mars is trine the Sun-Moon conjunction ... and the orb is close enough for this to be two wide 225H aspects in my natal chart (Sun-Mars and Moon-Mars).
In my 119H chart, there is Sun-Moon-Mars-Jupiter stellium ... and that 4-planet conjunction is trine Neptune, with an orb that is close enough for these four 357H Neptune contacts to be (unconsciously) active in my natal chart.
So ... this tells us that Sun-Moon-Mars are working together to create the personality/behavioural trait of the 75H chart ... And that Sun-Moon-Mars-Jupiter-Neptune are working together to create the personality/behavioural trait of the 119H chart. ... Moreover, we know that the 75H trait = "an already well-developed natural talent" - and that the 119H trait = "a person inspired/inclined to campaign for change".
HOWEVER ... we have to then look at the signs and houses of these planets in the NATAL chart, to ascertain what that 75H skill might be - and what (specifically) I might be inclined to campaign for.
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Post by ishtarmy on May 11, 2021 14:01:44 GMT
Talking about talent, my cousin is very good at memorizing things. I'm not religious, nor do I believe in religions, but I believe in God. And I think the ones that serve God all their life, the ones that don't force their beliefs onto others, the ones that don't lose their humanity, the ones that don't use religion in order to stroke their egos, the ones that stay positive and respect other beliefs, are very admiring. That is my cousin.
She already memorized Qur'an at the age of 14, also speaks 3 languages.
Natally, she has a grand trine between Mercury-Mars-Uranus, a t-square between Venus-Mars-Jupiter with Venus as an apex, and a kind of kite formation, but with 1 opposition (Sun-Pluto), 1 square (Venus-Jupiter), 2 sesquiquadrate (Venus-Pluto, Jupiter-Pluto), and 2 semi square (Sun-Venus, Sun-Jupiter). I don't know what's its name, I hope one of you could tell me.
Because of the exactness of her oppositions and square, in her 2H, her Sun-Pluto and Mars-Jupiter conjunction are exact. In her 3H she has Mercury-Uranus-SN conjunction. Sun-Pluto still conjunct each other in 4H, Mars-Jupiter too but with Venus joins their conjunction. In her 5H, there are Venus-Saturn and Jupiter-Chiron conjunction. And then her 7H (creative, mystical, and religious as per Addey said), there's Mercury conjunct Jupiter. Jupiter is very vocal it seems.
You can look it up yourself. She was born in Bekasi, Indonesia, May 31 1999. I don't know her birth time. I'll ask her later.
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Post by ishtarmy on May 11, 2021 14:03:59 GMT
Alright, as per t5 says, we should break the number down to its primary number. I'll just compile it for future use. Actually, I'm unsure how to use it for even numbers. 4H = 2H × 2H 6H = 2H × 3H 8H = 2H × 2H × 2H = 2H × 4H 9H = 3H × 3H 10H = 2H × 5H 12H = 2H × 2H × 3H = 4H × 3H 14H = 2H × 7H 15H = 3H × 5H 16H = 2H × 2H × 2H × 2H = 2H × 8H 18H = 2H × 9H 20H = 2H × 2H × 5H = 4H × 5H 21H = 3H × 7H 22H = 2H × 11H 24H = 2H × 2H × 2H × 3H = 8H × 3H 25H = 5H × 5H 26H = 2H × 13H 27H = 3H × 3H × 3H = 3H × 9H 28H = 2H × 2H × 7H = 4H × 7H 30H = 2H × 3H × 5H 32H = 2H × 2H × 2H × 2H × 2H = 4H × 8H or 2H × 16H 33H = 3H × 11H 34H = 2H × 17H 35H = 5H × 7H 36H = 2H × 2H × 9H = 4H × 9H 38H = 2H × 19H 39H = 3H × 13H 40H = 2H × 2H × 2H × 5H = 8H × 5H 42H = 2H × 3H × 7H 44H = 2 × 2H × 11H = 4H × 11H 45H = 3H × 3H × 5H = 9H × 5H 46H = 2H × 23H 48H = 2H × 2H × 2H × 2H × 3H = 16H × 3H 49H = 7H × 7H 50H = 2H × 5H × 5H = 2H × 25H 51H = 3H × 17H 52H = 2H × 2H × 13H = 4H × 13H 54H = 2H × 3H × 3H × 3H = 2H × 3H × 9H or 2H × 27H 55H = 5H × 11H 56H = 2H × 2H × 2H × 7H = 8H × 7H 57H = 3H × 19H 58H = 2H × 29H 60H = 2H × 2H × 3H × 5H = 4H × 3H × 5H Even so, there are some of the harmonic numbers that can't use this method, prime numbers like 37H, 41H, 59H, 83H, 97H.
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t5
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Post by t5 on May 11, 2021 16:06:43 GMT
Ishstarmy's cousin has "a kind of kite formation, but with 1 opposition (Sun-Pluto), 1 square (Venus-Jupiter), 2 sesquiquadrate (Venus-Pluto, Jupiter-Pluto), and 2 semi square (Sun-Venus, Sun-Jupiter)." ... And asked if anyone knows the name of it. I am not aware of this aspect pattern having yet been given a name by the astrological community ... but it is a 8th Harmonic Kite Configuration* ... 1/8th : 1/8th : 5/8ths : 5/8ths around the perimeter - and a 2/8ths (square) + 4/8ths (opposition) on the inside. 8H = "persisting with something beyond the point that others consider reasonable/rational" ... So, this is someone who invariably completes whatever she starts. [ *NOTE : Venus-Jupiter-Pluto is a Thor's Hammer ... So, Sun-opposite-Pluto makes that a Focused Thor's Hammer (but I have never seen it described as such). ... www.aquariuspapers.com/astrology/2014/09/astrology-class-in-early-september-2014-venus-focusing-and-releasing-the-hammer-of-thor.html ]
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t5
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Post by t5 on May 11, 2021 16:46:00 GMT
And ... adding my own current 1H - 32H working interpretations to Ishtarmy's breakdown of harmonic aspect numbers (note how primary numbers relate to a new skill, and how the 2H series present those skills to others (to obtain feedback, thus enabling the modification/honing of the skill) :-
1H = potential 2H = projecting our issues onto others (unconsciously obtaining feedback via "mirroring") 3H = pleasure, ease, skill, talent 4H = 2H × 2H = projecting our issues onto others (2H), in a way that observers also see them in ourself (2H) 5H = ability to consciously recognise patterns in things 6H = 2H × 3H = 2H displaying of our 3H talent (to obtain feedback upon it from others). So, a talent being developed. 7H = ability to intuitively recognise patterns in things. 8H = 2H × 2H × 2H = 2H × 4H = Our persistent 4H projection now provokes negative 2H comments/feedback. 9H = 3H × 3H = a 3H talent that creates 3H pleasure = Joy, bliss. 10H = 2H × 5H = testing our 5H ability, by projecting onto others (2H) 11H = Innovative, impatient and wilfully defiant. 12H = 2H × 2H × 3H = 4H × 3H = 3H skill in projecting 4H issues onto others. 13H = searching for our purpose/mission in life. 14H = 2H × 7H = 2H testing of our 7H intuition. 15H = 3H × 5H = 3H talent for 5H conscious recognition of patterns. 16H = 2H × 2H × 2H × 2H = 2H × 8H = creating an obstacle/enemy, by 8H persisting with a 2H projection. 17H = questioning/challenging the status quo. 18H = 2H × 9H = 9H joy in seeking 2H feedback. 19H = Authenticity/self-acceptance. 20H = 2H × 2H × 5H = 4H × 5H = 4H implementation of 5H ideas/views 21H = 3H × 7H = 3H talent for 7H intuitive recognition of patterns. 22H = 2H × 11H = acquiring 2H feedback on our 11H traits. 23H = Originality. 24H = 2H × 2H × 2H × 3H = 8H × 3H = 3H talent for 8H persisting. 25H = 5H × 5H = an already well-developed ability to consciously recognise patterns in things. 26H = 2H × 13H = obtaining 2H feedback on our 13H search. 27H = 3H × 3H × 3H = 3H × 9H = complacency. 28H = 2H × 2H × 7H = 4H × 7H = 7H inspired 4H effort = "mission". 29H = walking the walk/displaying our originality 30H = 2H × 3H × 5H = acquiring 2H feedback on a 15H skill. 31H = embracing the behavioural traits of our shadow 32H = 2H × 16H = paying for trouble aroused by needlessly creating obstacles.
33H = 3H × 11H 34H = 2H × 17H 35H = 5H × 7H 36H = 2H × 2H × 9H = 4H × 9H 37H = 38H = 2H × 19H 39H = 3H × 13H 40H = 2H × 2H × 2H × 5H = 8H × 5H 41H = 42H = 2H × 3H × 7H 43H = 44H = 2 × 2H × 11H = 4H × 11H 45H = 3H × 3H × 5H = 9H × 5H 46H = 2H × 23H 47H = 48H = 2H × 2H × 2H × 2H × 3H = 16H × 3H 49H = 7H × 7H 50H = 2H × 5H × 5H = 2H × 25H 51H = 3H × 17H 52H = 2H × 2H × 13H = 4H × 13H 53H = 54H = 2H × 3H × 3H × 3H = 2H × 3H × 9H or 2H × 27H 55H = 5H × 11H 56H = 2H × 2H × 2H × 7H = 8H × 7H 57H = 3H × 19H 58H = 2H × 29H 59H = 60H = 2H × 2H × 3H × 5H = 4H × 3H × 5H
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t5
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Post by t5 on May 12, 2021 8:16:09 GMT
Earlier in the thread, I stated that - to correctly interpret the Sun-Moon-Mars-Jupiter-Neptune in my 75H and 119H charts ... "we have to then look at the signs and houses of these planets in the NATAL chart, to ascertain what that 75H skill might be - and what (specifically) I might be inclined to campaign for."
So, for information/completeness :-
In my natal chart ... Sun is in Scorpio/3rd; Moon is in Cancer/10th; Mars is in Sagittarius/3rd ; Jupiter is in Capricorn/4th (on IC) and Neptune is in Libra/1st.
The Sun-Moon-Mars 75H skill has manifested as a lifelong curiosity about human behavioural traits (and the underlying causes of them). ... However, that Sun is coloured/"wounded" by a 1deg38mins conjunction with Chiron in Scorpio/3rd. So, my adult focus has always been upon "how, in the workplace, those in positions of authority might abuse their power". ... And that 75H trait has often resulted in Sun-Moon-Mars combining with "holier-than-thou" Jupiter and "easily aroused" Neptune in a variety of (sometimes misguided) "defender of the underdog" 119H campaigns.
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t5
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Post by t5 on May 12, 2021 16:34:26 GMT
Ava ... your natal Venus-SN-Uranus poleaxe figure might provide a good working example of Vibrational Astrology.
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t5
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Post by t5 on May 23, 2021 6:49:56 GMT
I noticed yesterday that Vibrational Astrologers are currently working on the assumption that four natal planets vibrating together (i.e.. conjunct in the same harmonic chart) will be a significant influence. Scrolling through H1 to H100 threw up only 3 of these for Abraham Lincoln, but they do indeed seem to be significant traits in him :- 1. H85 chart ... Sun-Moon-Mercury-Saturn-Chiron. 2. H86 chart ...Mars-Jupiter-Saturn-Pluto. 3. H90 chart ...Sun-Venus-Uranus-Pluto-Chiron. H85 = H5 x H17 = campaigning for change ... H86 = H2 x H43 = ?* ... H90 = H9 x H5 x H2 = Joy from striving to create order out of chaos. ( *Note : "The person with a 43rd harmonic often has a weak sense of their own identity" ... relocation-astrology.com/2020/12/19/repost-a-vibrational-astrology-interlude/ ... So, H86 = "striving for a sense of personal identity"?)
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Post by krewster on May 24, 2021 8:58:05 GMT
Hi all...
First post...
Was so interested in mention of the 43 and 86 denominators and thanks for the posted link...but I don’t buy it.
-if a prime (the 43) means “weak sense of identity,” then its double (the 86 can’t mean the opposite, like striving for identity your whole life bec you care so much about it; no, the 2x “should” still be mostly in the nature of its prime (just like the 4 is not so dissimilar from the 2 in traditional thinking).
Anyway, it’s great if these kinds of impressions can be shared in constructive dialogue.
Btw, my luminaries are 43 and it’s true that as a teenager I greatly resented the chore of being forced to become a social person with things to say (seemed besides the point in life). All that passed of course and, besides, David Cochrane has a gloriously tight Merc-Jup-Pluto 43 triangle and he’s never run out of things to say with confidence (perhaps the planets involved in a same-denominator config mean more in interpretation than the prime’s keyword)?
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t5
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Post by t5 on May 24, 2021 13:31:02 GMT
krewster ... As you know, a major problem with using famous people to determine how harmonic aspects manifest is that we have access only to what has been made public about them. ... So, it would be easier to arrive at a valid conclusion about Abe if he was known to us personally. ... However, my thinking here is that the 2-series is actually about "seeking feedback from others". (In effect, the H43 person "has a weak sense of personal identity" and the H2 is asking others if they perceive that in him/her.)
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Post by lumina on May 24, 2021 14:24:20 GMT
Why would the 43th harmonic show a weak sense of identity? Where does that come from?
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Post by krewster on May 24, 2021 21:23:59 GMT
The comment is at the bottom of t5’s earlier post and his provided interesting link to a David Muir person who formally studied vibrational for 2.5 yrs evidently.
In fact, upon rechecking, my luminaries are 86, not 43 (illustrating that I lump together higher multiple iterations of primes until the prime is understood).
Curious whether t5 is endorsing Muir’s description of Cochrane’s take away on the 43? Can’t do it based on Lincoln’s chart bec as you mentioned we don’t know him. But I feel like I "know" Gertrude Stein (after skipping through that tv show season 2 of Genius focusing on Picasso and his friends). She has a 2min Sun/Merc which is 43 to Sat. No “weak sense of identity” among those 3 planets for her.
My “archives” are showing 8 personally known natives with significant 43s/86s and none of those planetary pairs look weak to me.
Anybody else have 43z to share (t'would be amazing to crack this nut)....?
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Post by lumina on May 24, 2021 21:47:11 GMT
My own 43th harmonic chart has a triple conjunction of
Jupiter 2 Cap Sun 5 Cap Saturn 9 Cap
with Sun and Jupiter opposing Uranus on 28 Gemini and Saturn opposing Mars on 12 Cancer
I don´t really consider myself having a weak (sense of) identity, actually I am not even sure what that means.
EDIT: Actually looking at the planets there lumped together, I feel like those planets are pretty clear in my personal identity. Well Sun is on the midpoint of Jupiter and Saturn and I often move in between these "poles" so to speak.
An aquaintance has a quadruple conjunction of
Moon 2 Taurus Saturn 8 Taurus Neptune 9 Taurus Jupiter 16 Taurus
I don`t consider him having a weak identity either. Though having said that he is a performer, so it is his job to slip into other identities. But off stage his identity is pretty well defined and he knows pretty well who he is.
But of course the interpretation depends on how we define "weak identity".
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t5
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Post by t5 on May 25, 2021 7:59:05 GMT
lumina and krewster ... As already stated by krewster. it comes from the article by David Muir at relocation-astrology.com/2020/12/19/repost-a-vibrational-astrology-interlude/ No. ... This description in the David Muir article is also new to me, and I have not yet attempted to examine/test it in any way. With Placidus houses, I have a 2nd house natal Mercury at 15Scorpio00 and 3rd house Mars at 25Sag51 ... So, separated by 39degs51mins and actually a within-9mins-orb 9th harmonic aspect in my natal chart. However, I was recently looking at my Solar Return chart for 1992, and now notice it has Mercury-43H-Mars. In that 1992/93 SR year, I retired from my work/career and realised (for the first time, and at age 44) that my sense of identity consisted almost entirely of "t5 is an accountant/auditor - and the son of two working-class parents who were very proud of him for having accomplished that" - which (after retiring) was no longer true. ... Consequently, I spent the rest of that year searching for a new label/identity - and discovered "husband, father, grandfather and full-time student of astrology". But ... (imo) "weak" does not seem to be the right word - since, in both cases, my ego has attached strongly to who/what I believe(d) myself to be.
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Post by krewster on May 25, 2021 22:53:42 GMT
Hi lumina,
forgive this intrusion if considered rude (tried real hard to PM you but can't find the “send” button in the PM menu structure).
I’ve been so bored lately that I dared to try reconstructing your chart from your provided image of it in a recent thread and according to Sirius’ list print out of harmonic triangles) your mentioned Sun-Jup-Sat 43 triangle dissolves into thin air if focusing more on the tightest orbed denominators which Sirius can report (i.e., down to the 1min or slightly less orb level).
So (if my reconstruction was correct) another possible way of labeling those 3 aspects would be:
Sun-Jup zero orb @ the 110th denominator; Sun-Sat 1min orb @ the 77th denominator; and Jup-Sat is a 63 (or 146).
Curious whether you could find the “proposed” Sun-Jup and Sun-Sat aspects #’s useful. They’re both from the undecile family you could say right (10x11 and 7x11) and, while the Sun-Jup relationship @ 110 is clearly healthy, I don’t have any examples of a “good” 77. Perhaps, suggesting that your life structure can be unstable at times (whose isn’t?), while you always land on your feet “like a cat” with the lucky #’ed Sun-Jup relationship.
Anything to that...? (of course, I haven’t looked at your Sun’s other aspects).
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Post by Ava on May 26, 2021 3:28:10 GMT
Random dilettante math musing:
I wonder if twin primes have any association with each other in harmonic personality analysis?
I mean, 43 has a week sense of identity (?) but it's a "twin" with 41; the sum of twin primes over 5 is always divisible by 12 which seems quite strong astrologically.
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t5
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Post by t5 on May 26, 2021 7:49:39 GMT
Ava ... In The Spirit of Numbers, David Hamblin asserts that each prime number harmonic introduces a new personality trait - and that, as the numbers/traits increase, we are moving further from "being at one" (1H) and closer to becoming "an individual". ... Hence, he attempts in that book, to connect the prime numbered harmonics/traits from 31H to 1H in reverse order - to show how we move from expressing our individuality to returning to the source (which he believes to be the "way to go"). So ... if his assertion is correct, the 41H trait would indeed be a stepping stone to the 43H trait. ... However, we cannot test that - because we do not yet have reliable/evidence-tested interpretations for those two harmonic aspects. Currently, the best we can do is to consider if the 1H, 2H, 3H, 5H, 7H and 11H have any association with each other - since these are the only prime numbered harmonic aspects that (so far) have entered the consciousness of the "traditional" astrological community, thus facilitating the gathering of empirical evidence required to produce a reliable interpretation of their meaning.
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t5
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Post by t5 on May 26, 2021 8:21:30 GMT
lumina ... Given that David Bowie was renowned for recreating his public persona, I checked his 43H chart and discovered that he has an exact Moon-43H-Neptune. In his natal chart ... Moon is in Leo/7th (on Dsc) and Neptune is in Libra/8th ... So, a person with a Moon need to be centre-stage and a Neptune desire to be accepted by others - and, in his case, that need is expressed through a ruler/Sun in Capricorn/12th and the desire is expressed through Venus in Sag/9th (on MC). Hence, the 43H seems to relate to the performer/David Bowie rather that the person/David Jones ... Moreover, there is no doubt that he saw himself very clearly (and with considerable pride) as David Jones - whilst David Bowie was merely "the suits he wore when at work".
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Post by krewster on May 26, 2021 11:59:46 GMT
t5, not sure what's going on since we have the same program...
the attached listing printout from Sirius shows Bowie's Moon-Nept 43 to be the weakest of four solutions under 100...
Attachments:
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Post by Ava on May 26, 2021 13:03:47 GMT
Currently, the best we can do is to consider if the 1H, 2H, 3H, 5H, 7H and 11H have any association with each other - since these are the only prime numbered harmonic aspects that (so far) have entered the consciousness of the "traditional" astrological community, thus facilitating the gathering of empirical evidence required to produce a reliable interpretation of their meaning. Thanks t5 , I was just curious about the twin prime phenomenon so my question is more specifically about whether or not twin prime sets are even acknowledged in harmonics and, if so, whether or not the twins' meanings are connected. So the question is, is there an association between 3 and 5? Is there an association between 11 and 13? Furthermore I'm just curious if there's any relationship between harmonic and numerological interpretations...I suppose there could be, if one chooses to see it that way. astrologyk.com/numerology/planetsEach twin prime set brackets a multiple of 6, so I wonder if there's a "6" (Venus/benevolent) undertone to those primes. The radius of a circle fits into the circle 6 times (hexagon) so again...by association with #6, twin primes seem less distinct and singular ("odd") to me...numerologically or structurally, if you will. I guess that's what I'm wondering, to what extent does harmonic astrology incorporate numerology, if at all?
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