experimenting with Persona charts

[lumina]

IF the theory of persona charts hold any validity (the Sun "waking up" each planets, as it transits it for the first time after birth, and the persona chart itself directing a magnifying glass onto the planet). and IF the SN holds informations about our past or past life or where we come from, then I`d think the SN-persona chart might reveal a bit more about where we come from, either a past life or maybe just qualities and traits and experiences that are part of our personality already, and the NN might be shedding light about what we are moving towards, and what we are developing as we go through our experiences in life. 

In my case my SN-persona chart is this here, possible past lives or just my personal past or familiar modus operandi. 




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and that is what I am growing into, quite the interesting chart actually. 




free image upload

[Ava]

Cool topic lumina   

So, we meet again...and again...and your NN persona NN is conjunct my natal NN.  

Your SN persona Jupiter is exactly conjunct my Jupiter.

Your SN persona Priapus is exactly conjunct my Priapus.

Anyway.....your SN persona sun opp Neptune exact, with the Pisces moon, converting to the NN persona new moon stellium on the IC, trine Jupiter...that is just so dreamy. Such an interesting variation on your natal theme of NN conjunct Neptune, square Pisces Jupiter. It almost seems to say that everything is going to turn out well for you. It's interesting to me that you are still so close to your family. New moon on the IC, it's like the beginning is still fresh, at home.   

"...and IF the SN holds informations about our past or past life or where we come from, then I`d think the SN-persona chart might reveal a bit more about where we come from"

I guess so? It's just funny to me, if that is true. My SN person chart = Davison w/ H, virtually identical (same day). 

edit >> too much coffee

[lumina]

Ava


"So, we meet again...and again...and your NN persona NN is conjunct my natal NN.
"
Yes, I find that intriguing. I mean the NN of NN persona might be the most future-growth oriented thing in the chart, so mine lead into Scorpio. hmm. Actually it is conjunct P`s natal uranus by 2 degrees and is on our synastric Ulisses/Odysseus-Penelope-conjunction. and on my natal 12th house cusp. 




"Your SN persona Jupiter is exactly conjunct my Jupiter.



Your SN persona Priapus is exactly conjunct my Priapus.
"
How cool!

BTW I have a friend who has the birthchart on the date the first P`s SN Persona falls on. Well she`s had a very difficult and isolated life, still has, though with a rich inner/spiritual life. Just wondering if that is the energy that the first P´felt in terms of his past, even if it is just a vague feeling. 




"Anyway.....your SN persona sun opp Neptune exact, with the Pisces moon, converting to the NN persona new moon stellium on the IC, trine Jupiter...that is just so dreamy. Such an interesting variation on your natal theme of NN conjunct Neptune, square Pisces Jupiter. It almost seems to say that everything is going to turn out well for you."
Let`s hope so. lol Yes, I noticed too that the ASC is in Cancer and Moon in Pisces, and when starting with astrology I was so certain my chart was wrong, as I was sure I had to have Moon in Pisces, not in Aquarius. (from today`s perspective Aqua-Moon makes sense of course)

Seems I am coming from a very emotional place with Cancer ASC conjunct Venus in Cancer and Moon in Pisces. but mostly concerned with my own thoughts and expansion of horizon (Moon in 9th house), and it actually looks rather difficult in terms of relationships with that T-square of Venus-Chiron-Uranus. Like always expecting abandonment in a romantic sense (Chiron-Uranus can have a lot to do with abandonment, either actively or passively. Chiron was abandoned as a child, and uranus is very independent, often out of fear of needing anybody). I guess this is where that feeling of having to do my "own thing" comes from, while at the same time the Cancer-Venus is more emotional than I might have liked. 

Moon sesisquare Saturn, which are the rulers of ASC and DESC, seems to emphasize the importance of relationships but also some difficulties to form bonds, like there is always tension inherent that. 

Sun opposing Neptune does not simplify things, though I think there is a good potential of creativity or spirituality, or the danger of illusion and letting things just slip away in a sense. Sun in the 11th house, so it seems that most energy actually was more focused on friendships, groups and ideals, maybe being in tension with a too dreamy perception of creativity and romance (Neptune in 5th house).

Even more disconcerting to me seems the Mars-Pluto-opposition, it is like a harsh dissonance to everything else in that chart. I wonder what that means really. Well as a child I would repeatedly dream about our house being on fire, or me being burnt alive (sometimes my mom was in that dream, too), and actually grew up with a fear of fire that seemed exaggerated, considering a toddler or child does not even know what fire is. 


"It's interesting to me that you are still so close to your family. New moon on the IC, it's like the beginning is still fresh, at home.
"
Yes, it seems clear that from the NN persona chart, family or a home is where it all happens. lol Important at least. 
Also I havea  New Moon there, and the ruler of ASC and DESC are conjunct in that chart on the IC, so relationships seem to be even more important than in the past, and definitely family relations. 

Alsof ound it interesting, that while there is still the Venus-Chiron-ouch-stuff, this time Venus trines Mars. Interesting. 

All in all that chart seems a little more grounded though. or resilient, optimistic etc. 


Fascinating with the Davison charts and birthcharts and Persona charts. Yes, there must be a familiar set of energies.

And funny today is the Draconic New Year but you are right of course. 

[lumina]

Ava

since you mentioned the Italian person of interest being a possible past life lover (his Mars on my SN), I thought I`d post his SN persona chart here as well

[12YearsABlob]

Whoa... look at that concentrated dose of Sag - Sun, moon, neptune, mercury. That stellium looks rad!

[lumina]

As for my SN persona chart compared to the Italian person`s SN persona chart, I suppose the question is: who abandoned whom? Though I have the feeling I might have been the leaving party.

[lumina]

Jul 9, 2019 13:42:36 GMT 12YearsABlob said:

Whoa... look at that concentrated dose of Sag - Sun, moon, neptune, mercury. That stellium looks rad!

Yes, and to imagine there is someone walking around who has this as a birth chart!

[12YearsABlob]

So, mine are pretty straightforward about the issues I need to address and integrate...(Look at that flipping Mercury-Chiron).

Moving away from that loopy Sun-Venus opposing Uranus-Neptune towards integrating it as one whole (Sun-Moon-Uranus-Neptune stellium). Taking action to nurture oneself and others (Mars-Ceres) as opposed the Saturn paralysis (Mars square Saturn).

    

These lessons are also in my natal, if one looks closely enough. But I like how neat these charts are...

[Ava]

Egads, I just wrote a long reply and lost it. I don't even care because I like the topic so much, this just gives me another chance to think about it.

Quickly - glad you saw my reply before I edited lumina. I just wanted my post shorter.

Be back later

[lumina]

12YearsABlob

Yes the issues are written in the natal chart too, which is the sun persona chart. Lol

I just am fascinated by the clear refle tion I. The person a chart and the elaboration.

Also how interesting that you also have a new moon with neptune

[12YearsABlob]

Jul 9, 2019 14:20:51 GMT lumina said:

12YearsABlob

Yes the issues are written in the natal chart too, which is the sun persona chart. Lol

I just am fascinated by the clear refle tion I. The person a chart and the elaboration.

LOL @ Sun persona chart. Yeah, these charts are interesting, they highlight some things that might not be obvious in the natal chart. Also, my NN chart has that stellium on the NN - not sure if it's a mathematical thing, or is because of my natal NN aspects.

Jul 9, 2019 14:20:51 GMT lumina said:

Also how interesting that you also have a new moon with neptune

I know right! *high-five* We should start a club, New Moon Neptune.

[Ava]

I've been stressed all week and this is going to have to serve as my "day of rest".....

So, hi-ho, re-typing I go...

lumina

"Yes, I find that intriguing. I mean the NN of NN persona might be the most future-growth oriented thing in the chart, so mine lead into Scorpio. hmm. Actually it is conjunct P`s natal uranus by 2 degrees and is on our synastric Ulisses/Odysseus-Penelope-conjunction. and on my natal 12th house cusp."

That's got all the makings of a happy ending (destination: Scorpio). Reunion (those asteroids), electricity (his Uranus), Scorpio (ahem), heading into the 12th house.

"BTW I have a friend who has the birthchart on the date the first P`s SN Persona falls on. Well she`s had a very difficult and isolated life, still has, though with a rich inner/spiritual life. Just wondering if that is the energy that the first P´felt in terms of his past, even if it is just a vague feeling."

That's an interesting way of looking at it. I never knew anyone born exactly on my SN persona day.

"Yes, I noticed too that the ASC is in Cancer and Moon in Pisces, and when starting with astrology I was so certain my chart was wrong, as I was sure I had to have Moon in Pisces, not in Aquarius. (from today`s perspective Aqua-Moon makes sense of course)"

I like that. I forget what I had said in my lost post, about this.... maybe just stating the obvious, that it's cool how your Pisces moon transforms into new moon/Neptune in the NN persona.


"Seems I am coming from a very emotional place with Cancer ASC conjunct Venus in Cancer and Moon in Pisces. but mostly concerned with my own thoughts and expansion of horizon (Moon in 9th house), and it actually looks rather difficult in terms of relationships with that T-square of Venus-Chiron-Uranus. Like always expecting abandonment in a romantic sense"

Sad...well, SN persona sun in Gemini, makes me feel like there is a missing "twin"...and the objective is to find the other. In your case, maybe with 9H Pisces moon you find that "other" in a foreign environment, or in a spiritual sense, picking up on the universal connectivity between people. As it's Gemini sun, language is the tool that establishes those connections. I don't know how many languages you speak, but it's at least three, plus musical interests. So yes, the horizons look very broad...

"As for my SN persona chart compared to the Italian person`s SN persona chart, I suppose the question is: who abandoned whom? Though I have the feeling I might have been the leaving party."

Your Karma-ASC on his Vesta. Your Aries Chiron t-squaring his sun-Chiron and Ceres. I don't know...what are you seeing?

"I guess this is where that feeling of having to do my 'own thing' comes from, while at the same time the Cancer-Venus is more emotional than I might have liked."

I love Cancer Venus. Beautiful energy.

"Even more disconcerting to me seems the Mars-Pluto-opposition, it is like a harsh dissonance to everything else in that chart. I wonder what that means really. Well as a child I would repeatedly dream about our house being on fire, or me being burnt alive (sometimes my mom was in that dream, too), and actually grew up with a fear of fire that seemed exaggerated, considering a toddler or child does not even know what fire is."

That's just....wild. I remember you saying this before.

"All in all that chart seems a little more grounded though. or resilient, optimistic etc."

That is basically how you come across. I remember when we got to know each other, I found it so strange that you had ever gone through darker moods, darker periods.

This is my NN persona



Mercury as chart ruler, conjunct the sun and Mars in the 3H.

Mercury rules the MC which is conjunct my natal Gem Mars and draco Mercury.

Mercury is conjunct my husband's NN persona Mercury @ 24 Scorpio.

No wonder I talk too much. 

[Ava]

I like your charts and analysis 12YearsABlob...seriously it's like all the schoolchildren (planets) were scattered around the playground in the morning (SN chart), enjoying the sunshine (sun-Venus in Cancer), but then almost all of them filed military-style into a long line from Scorpio to Aqua.

That sun conjunct Uranus exact in the NN chart, holy smokes. I know it's "just" a persona chart, but I feel like, everyone I've known who has sun-Uranus in a significant chart will also have a luminary in Aqua, either in tropical or draconic.

[Ava]

SN persona of my Davison chart with my husband:

[lumina]

12YearsABlob

I don´t think it is a mathematical thing. It has to do with the year of our birth and that Neptune was conjunct NN for some periods of time I guess. But that there is Also Moon involved makes it of course ven more individual, not just a generational thing. Or maybe it means that we are tapping into the generational Neptune-NN-theme.

Funny enough when I first met P there was a transiting Neptune-NN-conjunction, too, albeit in Aquarius (and actually NN was even more closely conjunct Chiron, but Neptune was there within 2-3 degrees).

And currently I think we may have a NN-Neptune-trine, and it is once more a "magical" period, maybe more subtly, but there are jsut surreal things happening, that make me feel like telepathy, though not even wanted or aimed for, is pretty real. Or it is just coincidence, but Neptune could be part of that, esp. at home in Pisces. Of course my Solar REturn has Psyche conjunct Sun, so I will not rule that one out as one more factor. lol

[lumina]

Ava


 "maybe just stating the obvious, that it's cool how your Pisces moon transforms into new moon/Neptune in the NN persona.
"
Yes, Neptune might be even more important there, even though the Moon is not in Pisces anymore. 






"( Sad...well, SN persona sun in Gemini, makes me feel like there is a missing "twin"...and the objective is to find the other."
Which describes the other set of a series of dreams I`ve had in younger years, when I was looking for my "twin" and accusing my parents to withhold him or hide him or keep him away from me. I`ve even searched for him in towers, sounds weird, but I remember one particular tower. lol he wasn`t there of course, but it just struck me and reminded me of that dream, when P was posting a picture of exact that tower, which apparently stands in his hometown. lol Though this might have been one or 2 years ago, do not remember. So I think I must have actually seen that tower in real life, probably on walks with my parents in my childhood, as we would sometimes visit this city and taking walks there, so I guess that was just all about that dream. a fragment of a memory of something I had seen in waking life and apparently made  a story aobut that (also my mom used to tell me how surprised she was that I was "one" baby, or that she had fallen pregnant with one baby, because it would have been "her turn" generationwise to have twins. Apparently on the maternal line of my heritage twins are not that rare.)
So I guess these dreams were a meshing up of all of this.


" I don't know how many languages you speak, but it's at least three, plus musical interests. So yes, the horizons look very broad..."

Thanks. Not that many languages. Well there is German and English of course. And Latin - but latin is a dead language. 
And I have delved a little into Ancient Greek, Russian (at the same time, which was a bit stupid, as it means I had to juggle two new alphabets. lol) and Dutch. But I just had a short encounter with those, nothing that really stuck. 
I am apparently able to understand a little Italian, though it is more of a passive thing, but now and then I wake up with italian words in the back of my mind I have never heard of, like a while ago, waking up, apparently from a dream with someone addressing me as "Graziosa" - never heard of it before, however I asked an Italian teacher about this and she said that this was a very positive term, not just pretty or lovely, though it contains that as well, but actually encompassing all that is "noble". lol No clue about that. I wasn`t aware I knew the word. 

Or many many years ago waking up with that word "Querida" - and it took me quite a bit time to figure out what it means.(it seems to be Spanish though) lol But then again my mom would tell me that sometimes as a teenager when she came up to look after me and I apparently was asleep but sort of reacting to her, I would sometimes apparently talk in a foreign language. lol 




"Your Karma-ASC on his Vesta. Your Aries Chiron t-squaring his sun-Chiron and Ceres. I don't know...what are you seeing?
"
Well in his SN I see Cancer-Sun, so a very caring energy, but conjunct Chiron, could just be ver mature of course, but it squares Ceres, so despite the caring attitude there seems to be a tension with nurture/ caring/ children. Ceres, esp. in difficult aspects, can sometimes also be about the feeling of loss, having to let go of something, a child or just something you care about most, or having to share. (Ceres had to share her daughter with Pluto). And also Ceres was ONLY a mother, while Jupiter fathered their daughter, he was basically out of anything else, and Ceres didn`t want him around either, not in the term of shared custody at least. So basically Ceres was one of the first single-mothers. lol 

it sort of reminds me that the Italian Persona actually has a child with a woman he is not living with, so who knows? Maybe that is also described there. 

Anyway there seems to be a potential for caring but also the potential for experiencing vulnerability and wounded ness around caring or not be allowed to care the way he might want to? or need to? 

my Venus on his Sun certainly speaks of a strong attraction, at least from me to him, but Chiron and Uranus squaring his Sun-Chiron, just makes me think of Uranus being too unreliable, to hot and cold and so on, and that would be a bit of a waking up but also for a Cancer Sun rather painful. 
Well of course my Uranus is conjunct his Ceres, too. 


his Vesta on my ASC-Karma makes me think of him being actually pretty dedicated, but possibly not able to really manifest it, mostly cause I wouldn`t let it. 


Also my SAturn in the SN persona sits on his SN of his SN-persona - not a coincidence that this crossed my path today when transiting Sun-NN is conjuncting it and Tr Saturn opposing it. lol 

Saturn rules my DESC of that chart, so it almost makes me think like maybe we have not been partners or lovers ina  most recent life, but that there has been a very karmic relationship even earlier than that. as the SN of the SN persona - well it cannot get any further into the past I guess. lol 
SAturn on the sN can be very binding or restrictive or overly demanding of course. maybe it was not necessariyl a romantic partner, could have been a parental - child relationship too, though Saturn rules my DESC of that chart, so I am not so sure about that. 

with my MOon opposing his Venus-Mars, there might have been quite a bit of attraction for sure, but I am not sure it led to anything to be honest. 

l



As for your NN persona chart, you do have a Sun-Moon-aspect as well, a trine! I love that!
And also the ASC-DESC, just see where THAT one falls! Wow! in terms of natal charts I mean.

[lumina]

And about the SN persona of the DAvison with your husband, that Sun-Venus-(Neptune) on IC, sextile Mars - whoa! I suppose you have been together before.

[12YearsABlob]

Jul 9, 2019 17:53:24 GMT Ava said:

I like your charts and analysis 12YearsABlob ...seriously it's like all the schoolchildren (planets) were scattered around the playground in the morning (SN chart), enjoying the sunshine (sun-Venus in Cancer), but then almost all of them filed military-style into a long line from Scorpio to Aqua.

LOL, too good.. This made me snort out my drink. Thanks for the keyboard spatter, Ava ! >_<

...Given that this axis is about balance, it's probably asking to build that solid foundation without sacrificing the tenderness of the other side.

Jul 9, 2019 17:53:24 GMT Ava said:

That sun conjunct Uranus exact in the NN chart, holy smokes. I know it's "just" a persona chart, but I feel like, everyone I've known who has sun-Uranus in a significant chart will also have a luminary in Aqua, either in tropical or draconic.

Ha! Guiltyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

[12YearsABlob]

Jul 9, 2019 19:01:17 GMT lumina said:

12YearsABlob

I don´t think it is a mathematical thing. It has to do with the year of our birth and that Neptune was conjunct NN for some periods of time I guess. But that there is Also Moon involved makes it of course ven more individual, not just a generational thing. Or maybe it means that we are tapping into the generational Neptune-NN-theme.

Right, I meant my Sun & Moon being on that NN. Uranus/Neptune are conjunct NN in my natal chart as well, the Sun & moon aren't. But I do have draconic sun conjunct natal NN and a 9th harmonic aspect between Sun, Moon, Neptune.

Jul 9, 2019 19:01:17 GMT lumina said:

Funny enough when I first met P there was a transiting Neptune-NN-conjunction, too, albeit in Aquarius (and actually NN was even more closely conjunct Chiron, but Neptune was there within 2-3 degrees).

And currently I think we may have a NN-Neptune-trine, and it is once more a "magical" period, maybe more subtly, but there are jsut surreal things happening, that make me feel like telepathy, though not even wanted or aimed for, is pretty real. Or it is just coincidence, but Neptune could be part of that, esp. at home in Pisces. Of course my Solar REturn has Psyche conjunct Sun, so I will not rule that one out as one more factor. lol

Oh, I didn't know there was a transiting NN-Neptune trine. Pretty cool, especially if it aspects something natally. I wouldn't discount solar Return sun conjunct Psyche either. And perhaps some transits might be activating your composite with P?

[12YearsABlob]

Jul 9, 2019 18:15:09 GMT Ava said:

SN persona of my Davison chart with my husband:

That Sun-Venus is on your NN, isn't it? On the IC, no less - this particular SN story had to play out in your current NN path.

The opposition is also very telling, constant negotiation between those two forces. The Mars-Pluto side, with its relentless quest for regeneration and sticking it out through thick and thin, pitted against the Saturn-Chiron chronic issues that refuse to go away. It's quite fascinating, really - both those sides are pulled together by the Sun-Venus on the IC. Those three are keeping the peace, keeping it all together. "It'll all be okay as long as we keep the home fires burning."

(I can erase this if you want, not sure how much is okay to say.)