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Post by Ava on May 17, 2019 11:47:37 GMT
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Charles_%26_Tati_Westbrook_controversyInteresting that he has Eros-Karma squaring his nodes. His Eros @ 13 Taurus widely opposing her Jupiter @ 10 Scorpio, but still, she schooled him. Her Atropos on his SN-Uranus-Psyche, she's trying to end his SN extravagance. Mars conjunct Mars in Libra, Venus opp Venus on her nodes, his Virgo moon trine her Venus....frankly I think they will work it out. However, their composite is quite difficult. Posting that in a moment...
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Post by Ava on May 17, 2019 12:01:28 GMT
Transits for the day she released her "Bye sister" video. Tr sun @ 19 Taurus opposing Atropos-Pluto Tr moon-NN squaring their Venus-Mars opposition, tr Mercury-Uranus squaring their SN-Jupiter & NN-Saturn... She is having a nodal return: 21 Cancer, her NN (her SN conjunct tr Saturn @ 20 Cap) 19 Cancer, tr NN Sometimes I think noon charts should count for something. Using two noon charts, we get a Cancer moon on the ASC and Chiron exact on the MC, squaring Cap Pholus. Leo NN-Saturn in the first house, two people gaining fame by ending up in a Saturn situation.
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Post by Ava on May 17, 2019 12:45:40 GMT
Progressed composite has an exact NN-Saturn conjunction @ 1 Leo.
Transiting draconic sun was @ 0 Aqua on May 10th.
Pr composite "love stellium"
11 Taurus Venus 12 Taurus sun 13 Taurus Mercury
...all trine pr comp Uranus-Neptune @ 11°/15° Cap respectively.
Curiously their draconic pr comp love stellium falls @ 9-11 Cap. Right on that Uranus.
Furthermore transiting draconic Uranus just passed over that; it was @ 14 Cap on May 10th.
Today, transiting draconic Venus @ 12 Cap conjunct their draco pr comp Mercury @ 11 Cap, and in her new video she is expressing a lot of affection for him (so far...I haven't watched the whole thing.)
Okay sorry for going overboard with draconic but I find that really fascinating, the way the progressed composite, progressed draconic composite, and draconic transits all come together around 11° Capricorn, with heavy Uranus involvement.
And then meanwhile tr draco sun in Aqua was right on their tropical pr SN.
Edit: Oh geez, James Charles' natal draconic sun @ 15 Cap conjunct Mercury @ 13 Cap, opp Chiron @ 13 Cancer.
So, transiting draconic Uranus @ 15 Cap is hitting that dead-on right now.
Tati's draconic sun @ 3 Scorpio was squaring tr draco sun and pr comp nodes when she released "Bye Sister."
Her datal draconic Mars @ 27 Gemini conjunct transiting tropical Mars currently.
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Post by lumina on May 17, 2019 13:02:28 GMT
erm do I need to know these two? Never heard of them.
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Post by Ava on May 17, 2019 13:09:58 GMT
erm do I need to know these two? Never heard of them. Nah, of course not, but this thing blew up in the media, so I wanted to see what the astro was about. James Charles just took the record for the most subscribers lost in a day on YouTube, ever.
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Post by lumina on May 17, 2019 13:14:46 GMT
Well seems to not be a topic of medias here, or at least not the medias I am occasionally listening to or reading. I guess they are you tubers then? Not really following there.
What did the guy do to lose so many subscribers?
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Post by Ava on May 17, 2019 13:53:15 GMT
I've been a Tati subscriber for a while now, so I was surprised to see her at People magazine's website, then it appears is part of a tsunami of media coverage here in the US. I guess it's incendiary because as society tries to establish gay rights there is a general reluctance to criticize behavior that is exclusively gay, ie seducing straight people. James Charles was called out for doing this in an especially forward, aggressive, manipulative and tactless way. As one who's dealt with straight men acting exactly like that towards me, I am somewhat inclined to shrug it off like "That's just how men are." If straight men are the victims, I guess it's a bigger outrage than when straight women are? Anyway it's a groundbreaking conversation insofar as people who are sympathetic to gay rights typically do not want to target or expose any gay behavior. I'm positive that many gay men are attracted to straight men and there's no law against attempted seduction. Frankly the way I was propositioned by my lesbian friend and then rudely dismissed is exactly in line with how James Charles' victims were apparently treated, yet I thought it was not really such a big deal. But my baseline standard is pretty wrecked; probably a function of my heavy Plutonian chart and the experiences I've dealt with accordingly. I appreciate Tati for raising the bar. However, the public character assassination of a person as young as James Charles, I can't feel comfortable with. It is too harsh. Anyway, Tati's pr NN @ 19.38 conjunct tr NN @ 19.20 Cancer *and* transiting moon there when she released that video....her pr Saturn @ 20.08 Libra squaring tr Saturn @ 20.26 Cap. She's surprised it took on a life of its own? She needs an astrologer.
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Post by lumina on May 17, 2019 15:30:32 GMT
Ava ah thank you for elaborating. Totally eluded me. And I agree with you. Gay men are still men and well while it seems he was rude and tactless in his attempts, oh well, seriously, so much noise about this? I am not wanting to justify this kind of behaviour, it is not okay, but that social outcry is more than a little hypocritical (my opnion obviously). Also he`s basically a child, I mean did I read it right, he is 19? Of course he needs someone to tell him that his behaviour is not okay, but this? Hmm, I tend to agree with you that I am not quite understanding why this is such a big deal. But then again it is a big deal today and forgotten in a week, and by then I don`t know how many other states will have signed those despicable laws against women. Maybe we as a society should learn to pick our fights more wisely and pick where it is really needed and valuable and progressive (or a defiance against reegressing in the dark age).
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 16:05:18 GMT
Muahahaha I love this drama ... I doubt they’ll work it out. Tati is double fixed. And Aquarius don’t really let things slide especially if we put up with it for a while. It’s one of those moments where I thought... yeah, of course the aqua-scorp with venus in Capricorn is gonna keep the receipt.
Honestly gay men are notorious for even harassing women. Don’t even get me started on gay men. It’s known in queers community too that gay men can be veryyyyy misogynistic
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Post by lumina on May 17, 2019 16:32:25 GMT
Honestly gay men are notorious for even harassing women. Don’t even get me started on gay men. It’s known in queers community too that gay men can be veryyyyy misogynistic Even women can be very misogynistic, depending on the individual woman.
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Post by lumina on May 17, 2019 16:39:41 GMT
Today is the "day against homophobia" btw.
Personally I do not like any stereotypes being spread; there may be gay men who are harassing other men and women and do all of that, but coming from a personal perspective those I have met, do not fit that stereotype at all (at least when it comes to harass women, can`t say of course if they might not secretly harass men, though in at least 2 or 3 cases I would strongly doubt that. lol Can`t imagine them harass anyone to be honest.)
And not all heterosexual men are harassing women either, some do, yes, and some women seem worse than some men. It all comes down to the individual. Being an asshole is not genderspecific or determined by sexual orientation imo.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 17:21:59 GMT
lumina sure .., it’s hardly stereotyping tho. Homophobia includes lesbian as well. Yes, every sexual orientation can choose to abuse and harass. However Many gay men come from the perspective that women don’t matter whatsoever. Straight men still consider women’s perspectuve because they are their respective partners. Gay men don’t care for women. I’m speaking of something acknowledged by plenty of gay men and queer ppl. Half of my friends are gay but I’m aware they can be utterly male-centric in their views.
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Post by anela on May 17, 2019 17:38:56 GMT
I don't know who they are, but I saw one of those streamers I sometimes watch, talking about them about a week ago. She was looking up his apology video on her stream. I said I would google them, and someone said, "don't", LOL.
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Post by lumina on May 17, 2019 18:34:16 GMT
@theunknown
yes it is stereotyping.
You said gay men do not care for women, because they are not respective partners. This is limiting relating to people/ caring for people to a purely sexual/ romantic way, which is far too limiting. People are more than possibly sexual partners
In relation to the gay men I know, what you say, is simply not true (I cannot talk for men I do not know, of course). They are of course individuals and will differ, but those I`ve met actually had the greatest respect and care for women, just of course not in the sense of a sexual partner, but there are more things in life of importance, than sex or potential sexual relationships/ affairs.
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Post by Ava on May 18, 2019 13:01:26 GMT
I've definitely seen gay men go in diametrically opposing directions, where some care more than usual about women, and for others, women are apparently completely meaningless. I know that sounds harsh. But I've also read articles written by gay men, incriminating their community for misogyny.
Straight men can be ground-zero-misogynist, of course (see new laws in Georgia, Ohio, Alabama; consider what happened to the #MeToo movement, where men's complaining about the movement was loud and persistent enough to effectively destroy it.)
Women can be horrible towards men as well.
I do think there are qualitative differences in how different groups "spin" their antipathy, and I'm not sure if that is stereotyping or just reality.
From what I've seen, straight men tend to objectify women at worst...they are not receptive to our souls, brains, influence. They look at us as potential property. And then gay men, at worst, either ignore our existence as much as possible or ridicule us.
Everyone needs healing on many levels so this is not intended as judgment. It's not like I'm perfect, and certain groups do elicit revulsion from me as well (like the idiotic "pro-life" Christians supporting these new laws, at the moment. I recoil at the thought of their existence and have to remind myself to recalibrate so I don't become a bigot myself.)
I can't afford to really hate anyone. My mother died young from cancer, and that had a structuring effect on my psyche. Hate is a state of being that gives rise to disease, and I feel like I cannot physically afford to harbor ill thoughts.
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Post by lumina on May 18, 2019 13:31:40 GMT
I've definitely seen gay men go in diametrically opposing directions, where some care more than usual about women, and for others, women are apparently completely meaningless. Yes. But that is my point. All of these possibilities are possible and dependent on the personality of the individual. And of course everything else you said, too, there is a scale of behaviour, and everyone, irrespective of gender or sexual orientation, will find themselves somewhere on that scale. Of course we are all also influenced by social environment and also orientation in so far as we are determining someone a potential sexual partner or not. But even with that we are also all able of manifesting caring about other people independent of our choice of partner.
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Post by Ava on May 18, 2019 14:06:45 GMT
It's true, but I also think there is value in attempting to pinpoint the nature of the trends where we find them, because exposure is important for holding people accountable, for their own sake. It is part of caring.
Like I used to tell Ami Anne that I probably cared more about her than any of her bodyguards at LL (hi Orange), because I was trying to get her to drop the bullshit. Of course she acted mortally wounded if I mentioned her "article" was entirely factually incorrect but anyone screwing up that badly on purpose is soliciting some type of response. It's like a squeal for help, in its own way. I walked that path for a little while just to be sure it was as pointless as I suspected.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 15:39:33 GMT
lumina I said “many gay men.” I didn’t say gay men. And I have supported, cared for plenty of gay men. Half of my friends are gay. I’m educated about their darker side because my close friend is transgender. You can sit here and think I’m targeting them as a group. I’m not. I know too many of them. Many obviously are not misogynistic but many are with a specific brand of misogyny. Straight men’s misogyny is very much like Ava said. Remember a lot of closet gay men are very conservative and some of the ones denying their own sexuality make it to become our lawmakers. James Charles exhibits a lot of shallower side of gay men.
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Post by anela on May 18, 2019 16:49:00 GMT
It's true, but I also think there is value in attempting to pinpoint the nature of the trends where we find them, because exposure is important for holding people accountable, for their own sake. It is part of caring. Like I used to tell Ami Anne that I probably cared more about her than any of her bodyguards at LL (hi Orange), because I was trying to get her to drop the bullshit. Of course she acted mortally wounded if I mentioned her "article" was entirely factually incorrect but anyone screwing up that badly on purpose is soliciting some type of response. It's like a squeal for help, in its own way. I walked that path for a little while just to be sure it was as pointless as I suspected. I cared about her, too, and thought we were friends. Then she decided we weren't, if I opposed her political views. That's also when she started to post nasty things about my personal aspects. About the thread title: I heard that he promoted hair vitamins that were different from those that she personally sells, and she got angry. I don't know anything more than that.
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Post by lumina on May 18, 2019 17:00:24 GMT
About the thread title: I heard that he promoted hair vitamins that were different from those that she personally sells, and she got angry. I don't know anything more than that. That is what I heard, too, and don`t know anything more than that either. Also when I heard that, I couldn`t wrap my head around it, how this could cause such a stir, but decided I didn`t need to put too much effort in understanding it.
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