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Post by lumina on May 1, 2019 12:07:36 GMT
I am rereading the book by Robert Blashke (relationship astrology) and at one point he mentioned that he would often progress the composite to the day of their first meeting to help the couple understand the purpose of their relationship.
Thought that was interesting, and I checked my parents composite and they were having a minor triangle of Jupiter, Juno and Sun in their progressed composite:
Jupiter 10 Pisces in 7th house
Juno 11 Scorpio in 4th house (houses of the natal composite)
Sun on 10 Cap in 5th house
4 years later their pr c Sun was being opposite their composite Moon, and that was the year after their marriage and a few months after my birth, when they probably got settled into being a family with kid and all.
their pr composite also had
MErcury on 7 Cap oppositing Uranus on 7 Cancer - seems odd, but they are communicating and debating and discussing like crazy, I mean it drives anyone crazy around them at some time,w hen the bickering starts, but to them it seems just natural and fun (my Mom`s Uranus is also opposing my Dads Mercury).
Venus conjunct Vesta on 5 and 4 Sag (their pr c Venus was on my Mars degree and conjunct my ASC by 1,5 degrees
Pallas conjunct Chiron on 25 Sag (on my natal Sun-Mercury exact).
Then there also was
Karma conjunct Pluto with half a degree orb, Karma on 18 Leo, Pluto on 19 Leo
sextile NEptune on 18 Libra
and trine natal composite Sun on 19 Sag in 5th house (their Pluto-Sun-trine might be the tightest aspect in their composite I guess)
There was also pc MOon on 23 Aries square pc Ceres on 22 Cap
pc Ceres sextile pc NN partile too, on 22 Pisces
It is intresting that the Moon-Ceres is a square, but apparently that was not detrimental to them.
Well about 3 months after their meeting the pr composite Moon was conjunct their natal composite MC on about 26 Aries, and I think that must have been around the time they got "serious" with each other.
But well yes that seems interesting and rather matching what they have become
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Post by Ava on May 1, 2019 13:35:32 GMT
In the past I've enjoyed definitive theories like this. Currently they unsettle me, as if someone is trying to lay claim to the real estate of my mind with their astro-dogma. Maybe I have bad synastry with Blashke? www.astro.com/astro-databank/Blaschke,_Robert_P. No I actually have great synastry with him. Okay then. Anyway, when I met H we had in pr comp: 28 Scorpio Mercury 29 Scorpio Venus 2 Sag Sun When I met my husband we had in pr comp: 21 Scorpio Mercury 27 Scorpio sun 29 Scorpio Venus (look familiar?) "Love stellium" in each, mainly in 3rd decan Scorpio. When I met my college boyfriend we had in pr comp: 0 Scorpio Venus 25 Scorpio sun 1 Sag Mercury-NN What is it with me? Why all the Scorpio Venus? *eye roll* It's masochism for a natal Sag Venus! Pls don't quote |
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Post by lumina on May 1, 2019 14:21:56 GMT
Ava I wouldn`t take them as definitive and absolute, but yes I believe that the progressions at the first meeting possibly are an important "mark" to see what is especially coming out between two people, even unfolding over time. But of course time moves on and other important things will be happening and introduced. It possibly helps understanding why couples meet at a certain time and not at other times, or something like that. Well only partile orbs for this kind of thing of course.  it`s about a snapshot of time and the NOW (or the THEN)
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Post by 12YearsABlob on May 1, 2019 14:37:31 GMT
Do you ever see event composites with the FMC and a multi-composite with you, them and the FMC?
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Post by lumina on May 1, 2019 14:38:00 GMT
hmm, while general similiaritare seemingly there, if you check for the partile aspects, you can see the differences quite clearly.
I find the composite with H the strongest.
There is clearly a Mercury-Venus-conjunction there, and applying (if Mercury was in faster motion which it usually is, unlike in my case when it is stationary in progressions). the Sun was too far off to "count" for that moment, but of course it was clear to see that the Mercury and Venus would move there. Like it was not yet there when you met, but almost like a potential looming on the horizon? And somewhen possibly in the following 1-2 years, it would "log in". So possibly starting slowly with that Mercury-Venus vibe and becoming stronger romantic over time, almost like a reversed order. lol
"hen I met my husband we had in pr comp:
21 Scorpio Mercury
27 Scorpio sun
29 Scorpio Venus (look familiar?)
"
Here, as contrary to the H composite - it was more clearly about Sun-Venus right off the bat, not sure how fast Mercury was moving, it would come in sometime later, but could have been years into the marriage, depending on Mercury`s speed.
The Sun-Venus is at the same spot as the Mercury-Venus with H, that is soo interesting. it seems that esp. in terms of Venus you were really drawn to that vibration. Or maybe trying to "re-gain" this energy when meeting your husband?
Well usually Venus is faster than Sun, so actually this would have been separating and it was actually almost or just "gone" when you met. Sort of a last "shout out", a last time the spark could ignite (the Sun-Venus spark) and maybe that is why it would lead to a very quick relationship to capture the already fading feeling of romance (there might have been other things in the composite being closer and explaining more). Unless of course in your case Sun was in faster motion than Venus, then it would come together over time still.
also once Mercury would come between the two, he might have acted as a bridge.
"hen I met my college boyfriend we had in pr comp:
0 Scorpio Venus
25 Scorpio sun
1 Sag Mercury-NN
"
To be honest that doesn`t express me that much. Sorry.
Maybe the only thing that I would see here is the Mercury-Node-conjunction which actually makes sense for connecting (NN) to someone in college (Mercury) though Mercury can mean more than just mental stuff (depending on where he is in the natal composite or what he rules, for example for me and P Mercury rules the DESC for both of us and so he carries that DESC-signature with it, but that is of course not the case with everyone).
I`d suspect that there was other stuff going on with that college boyfriend in the composite. like a Mars-trine or something else.
"hy all the Scorpio Venus? *eye roll*"
Because you are drawn either to men with natal Venus in Virgo or Libra (age-factor) or you might also be drawn to men with pr Venus in Libra/ Scorpio, again depending on the age and where your own pr Venus was at, but I think it was still in Sag when you met them, possibly near my Sun and Mercury. lol
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Post by lumina on May 1, 2019 14:38:41 GMT
Do you ever see event composites with the FMC and a multi-composite with you, them and the FMC? interesting thought. I never so far have gotten into multicomposites, but could be interesting to check. Not just in terms of the fmc but with important events as well. |
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Post by lumina on May 1, 2019 15:03:14 GMT
Our looks like this (the pr composite for the time when we first met)  |
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Post by 12YearsABlob on May 1, 2019 15:24:28 GMT
Re: Progressed composites... Trouble is, I don't have much clarity on this. i.e., I don’t know when exactly I met the people who are important to me. Well, for some, I do – but it’s fairly recent. Most days I have brain fog and cannot tell my hand from my foot.
Considering those lucky people for whom have a paper trail (which is really a digital trail), I can tell when we met…
Person 1: Our progressed composite had (and still has) a Sun-Venus-Uranus conjunction at around 19° Scorpio (on my progressed stellium), squaring Saturn at 20° Aqua. Yay. I would’ve thought Uranus would be stronger than Saturn, but I do feel the Saturn (although it could be our synastry or other things). And a Mars-Merc-Neptune conjunction wallowing in its own corner. Jupiter opposing Juno. (Not that this is a potential romantic relationship, just noting the aspects).
Person 2: Pr comp Uranus 1° Cap, Juno 4° Cap, Saturn 5° Cap and a Sun-Neptune conjunction at 9° Cap, (which is on my Uranus), opposing Chiron at 9° Cancer. SN at 6° Virgo, Jupiter at 5° Sag (on their Saturn) squaring the nodes.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on May 1, 2019 15:32:43 GMT
interesting thought. I never so far have gotten into multicomposites, but could be interesting to check. Not just in terms of the fmc but with important events as well. Thanks! Yeah, I believe it's pretty revealing in any context, not just FMC's.
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Post by Ava on May 1, 2019 15:39:27 GMT
12YearsABlob Great idea, will check that out later. Do we have a thread on it? Seems familiar... --- lumina , My husband must've reminded me of H, because my husband's pr sun was conjunct H's sun when I met him, plus they both have that Mercury-Venus-Mars-Pluto in stellium, and there are other things. Could any two men be any more different, though? It's hard to pinpoint anything similar in their personalities. edit Anyway what do you think about a second first meeting chart, for situations where you go decades without contact and then re-meet? --- No need to be sorry about my non-impressive chart with college BF. It was dysfunctional. "I`d suspect that there was other stuff going on with that college boyfriend in the composite. like a Mars-trine or something else." Pr comp Mars @ 6 Leo trine my natal Venus. And his natal Venus @ 6 Leo. But it didn't do much in the pr comp. Looking at your chart now...
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Post by 12YearsABlob on May 1, 2019 15:42:02 GMT
12YearsABlob Great idea, will check that out later. Do we have a thread on it? Seems familiar.... Right? I thought we had one about EVC's with FMC's or something like that. Will search later and bump it...
:update: I bumped an old one on EVC research - hoping this qualifies as being in the same ballpark.
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Post by lumina on May 1, 2019 15:49:10 GMT
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Post by lumina on May 1, 2019 15:58:55 GMT
Ava"My husband must've reminded me of H, because my husband's pr sun was conjunct H's sun when I met him, plus they both have that Mercury-Venus-Mars-Pluto in stellium, and there are other things." Yes, definitely. Energies are interesting. For example it seems very very strongly so that P`s fb-page is partially written by the "new management" now. Well my aquaintance said that from the beginning, but I didn`t really listen to that. I think though she is right esp. with the lastest advertizement threads. What really convinced me is actually this: for the advertizing threads, something just felt so off, might be under his name, but it felt, like nothing basically. And today I got another notification of him (a like and a comment), and the energy hit me like a hurricane, I mean it literally knocked the air out of my lungs, such a strong energy it was. THAT - that was him. The other posts, most of them at least, not so much... I just wish they would play with open cards. As it is to me it is downright cheating what they are doing, this underhanded shared organizing of the site. I am sure P thinks it is not that important, as the info is what matters, but that`s not true, I think he misunderstands things about fans. Most of the fans are there because he is so accessible - if they figure this out, they will not think rationally or factually about this, they will feel betrayed in a way. I don`t think he is aware of this, or he doesn`t care. I mean noone would mind, if the new management would be introduced as such and just maybe posting on his site, but under her name. As it is this is.... fishy, but just meant to say, that I guess I need to trust my feelings more, and that energy this morning was quite something. Of course maybe he was also emotional for some reason and that intensified it. "LOL, pls don't quote that, I'll erase. " Too bad. I loved that! "Anyway what do you think about a second first meeting chart, for situations where you go decades without contact and then re-meet? " I`ve been thinking about that, too, and it is true, that new re-meeing charts often give good insights into a new chapter or something, but tomy surprise the original first meeting chart absolutely holds, still after so many years, and actually responds to transits, returns and progressions. lol I guess in this life you can only get physically born once, no matter if you might then go into hibernation. Pr comp Mars @ 6 Leo trine my natal Venus. And his natal Venus @ 6 Leo. But it didn't do much in the pr comp. That is pretty sexy though. and possibly very valid- comp to natal. pr comp Mars to his Venus - and trine yours. wait doesnt`t that mean it was in an aspect to the natal composite Venus? as for my pr composite with P for us meeting, well the Moon-Psyche-conjunction in Pisces always makes me laugh. lol
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Post by Ava on May 1, 2019 22:39:25 GMT
as for my pr composite with P for us meeting, well the Moon-Psyche-conjunction in Pisces always makes me laugh. lol It's nice...but I'm disappointed with this whole scheme of things, because it puts too much emphasis on first meeting, which is kind of ambiguous as far as I'm concerned. I first "met" H when I was maybe 10 years old in a shoe store, when my brother struck up a conversation with him. Did our eyes meet? And I forget...did I say anything to him, myself?? Maybe that counts, but the date is lost to history. Also, *just* partile aspects? It all seems so fussy...too much emphasis put on one precise moment in time, dictating the course of events. I just prefer to look at the regular composite for the basic template and pr comp to see what's up now. I hear you about the bad management of P's site. They oughtta have more consideration for psychics and intuitives who can simply tell who's who. I can hardly believe they run things that way but I know other busy people also have speech/script writers. |
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Post by lumina on May 2, 2019 9:06:22 GMT
Ava"It all seems so fussy...too much emphasis put on one precise moment in time, dictating the course of events. " I don´t think of it as "dictating", but it points out certain things that will come up and unfold over time. Partile aspects because it IS about a specific moment in time. However I wouldn´t really see it as the "fate" of the relationship, as the composite further progresses and other themes at other times will unfold. The first meeting chart is important, because it is the birthchart of the relationship, that moment when it comes together in the physical ("come together" not in a way that people actually have a romantic relationship, but it is like any individiual birth, the meeting of the individual with the physical sphere, and here it is two individuals together in relation to the physical sphere.) "I just prefer to look at the regular composite for the basic template and pr comp to see what's up now. 2 Yes, me, too. I also make a difference between eventoriented and development-oriented progressions. Meaning that if we are talking about specific events, we need these partile orbs (they are often valid over several years anyway, in practice I would never really pay attention to 1 degree outer planets aspects, they sometimes are within that orb for life, Saturn progressions might have much narrower orbs for their peak-phase). however it ALSO makes sense having an overview about what has come before and what is coming in, and building aspects might already be "sensed" as "in the making". Well P and me do have a Venus-Mars-trine in the making, but of course it won´t be within partile for a while now. Currently it is at 3 degree applying (I do have a suspicion that progressed aspects might start coming into "feeling" when they are crossing the 3 degree orb, but of course it is more like a hunch, or a faint sense, nothing really specific at that time, this would happen with partile orbs and mostly with Transits or pr Moon activating the aspects. But basically from my observation things do not "happen" until the aspects are partile, though we might have a certain feeling about something possibly looming on the horizon. I mean for example P and me had our "meeting phase" last year, just when the pr Moon was on the composite DESC, within a couple of minutes actually (not even the 1 degree orb), not the months before or after. in fact a few months before there was a most crappy time, which was only easing up, when pr Moon was moving out of 1 degree orb for the square to composite Chiron (I mean like to the day, when it crossed the 1 degree mark. lol)
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Post by Ava on May 2, 2019 12:56:37 GMT
The first meeting chart is important, because it is the birthchart of the relationship, that moment when it comes together in the physical ("come together" not in a way that people actually have a romantic relationship, but it is like any individiual birth, the meeting of the individual with the physical sphere, and here it is two individuals together in relation to the physical sphere.) I guess I don't really subscribe to this line of thinking. "Meeting" is just too amorphous a phenomenon to compare with the blood and guts of an actual physical birth. I mean, the meeting that could cause one person to be thunderstruck and obsessed, the other might scarcely even remember, so the relationship was not born then, as one person was as non-participating as if they never met at all. So it's lopsided. But basically from my observation things do not "happen" until the aspects are partile, though we might have a certain feeling about something possibly looming on the horizon. I mean for example P and me had our "meeting phase" last year, just when the pr Moon was on the composite DESC, within a couple of minutes actually (not even the 1 degree orb), not the months before or after. in fact a few months before there was a most crappy time, which was only easing up, when pr Moon was moving out of 1 degree orb for the square to composite Chiron (I mean like to the day, when it crossed the 1 degree mark. lol) This makes sense to me. I can see how partile aspects could matter more, be more obvious, than the rest of the progressed composite...but the whole thing has value. Same with first meeting progressed chart, cherry-picking the partile aspects is satisfying and maybe tantalizing if you find something juicy, like Venus-Mars partile...but if that's in a 2° square to Saturn, the story changes, for that time period, I would suppose. First impressions are lasting but sometimes we do override them later. |
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Post by lumina on May 2, 2019 13:40:58 GMT
I guess we have to agree to disagree Then. At least in certain respects.
More to say later or in the next days. Hopefully today, but With the Weekend around the Corner i am Not Sure when i can get to it.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on May 2, 2019 13:49:34 GMT
"Meeting" is just too amorphous a phenomenon to compare with the blood and guts of an actual physical birth. Yeah, that was part of my confusion up there. What counts as a meeting? I have more questions along those lines. If your synastry & composite is great, but there is a full moon on the first date... Will it last? Will there be an abortive first attempt? Or does it just indicate an intensity of feeling that sets off a cycle, perhaps to be repeated over and over?
For the ones I have a clear "first meeting", I feel like that energy does persist for a while (setting the tone), until it's offset by something else. However, it's hard for me to tell where it's coming from (synastry, EVC, transits, progressions or some combination of all that).
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Post by lumina on May 2, 2019 14:33:36 GMT
Ava, 12YearsABlobWell first meeting is the moment you are in each other`s physical proximity first and aware of each other, and your physical energies "touch" for the first time (even if just standing in front of each other). Something locks in place and shifts that moment. That is my definition of "meeting", based on my observation and experience. Obviously I can only come from my own view and perception. And if I use the term relationship in this instance, I do not mean a categorized relationship like friendship, romantic partners, enemies etc. But just the basic meaning of the word "relate". We always relate to anything surrounding us, in some way, no matter if we are aware of it or not. And yes a first meeting could have different effects on either person, which usually is visible astrologically, too. A first meeting chart is never offset, the energetic imprint remains for life. However like with every other chart it is subject to changes and development of course, just like our natal chart progresses, and yet the natal chart still remains in effect. I do think however that the composite has absolute priority in terms of relationship charts, because it is reflecting the natals and therefore coming from "inside the people". I take offense with the term "cherry-pick", as it seems very passive-aggressive and defensive to me and accusing me of using arbitrary methods just to fit my taste. Doesn`t make me feel inclined to continue that communication in any way. We can debate over the use of orbs, but I certainly do not "cherry-pick" anything in my application of astrology. I have described my views on orbs and how they work differently depending if we are doing an eventoriented or a processoriented analysis. Both have their validity and merit in my opinion. I do agree however that of course basal charts, be they first meeting charts, composite, Davison or natal (and therefore synastry) are just the starting point, and it is most interesting to see how these charts evolve over time.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on May 2, 2019 14:48:33 GMT
Oh, by "offset", I meant the same thing you did - i.e. change/evolve... And my orb comment was only lighthearted, not trying to debate anything.  I never look for "events" anyway, because I know I'd end up going down the rabbit hole with my half-baked knowledge of astrology, which is dangerous. I was only looking at the *energy footprint*, so to speak. Whether or not it manifests as an event, I don't let my thoughts wander there.
Hope you're not mad, I am just flippant sometimes. Sag MC square Jupiter practically lives for a laugh. |
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it`s about a snapshot of time and the NOW (or the THEN)
I never look for "events" anyway, because I know I'd end up going down the rabbit hole with my half-baked knowledge of astrology, which is dangerous. I was only looking at the *energy footprint*, so to speak. Whether or not it manifests as an event, I don't let my thoughts wander there.