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Post by Ava on May 28, 2018 15:24:30 GMT
I tend to think of the nodal axis as a magnetic line that draws things to it.
The longer I study astrology, the more fascinated I am with this phenomenon.
There doesn't seem to be any kind of consensus about how it works exactly, though.
The transiting sun is conjunct my Psyche in Gemini and I just want to tour this topic, if anyone's had experiences or observations they'd like to share.
Generally speaking, it seems that...
If their planet's on your south node, they feel comfortable hanging around you. If their planet's on your north node, you are attracted to them, but there's some kind of uncloseable gap. If their planet squares your nodes, you feel like you need to learn something from them. Possible chance of addiction. If your nodes are entangled (hard aspect), you are baffled, fascinated, and pained by each other. If your nodes are aligned (trine or sextile), there can be really strong compatibility. If your nodes are conjunct, you have to submit to the Fates. Something larger than yourselves is manifesting between you.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2018 15:40:21 GMT
I agree with and can attest to the validity of your thesis. South Node relationships are always the ones that came to fruitition for me, and North Node relationships - while powerful, karmic, and all consuming - have always slipped through my fingers like sand, never to materialize.
1st boyfriend: His Jupiter conjunct my SN (0°) My Mars/Vertext conjunct his SN (5°)
But also!
His NN conjunct my ASC (4°) MY NN conjunct his Juno (2°) and DSC (6°)
So an equal amount of give and take there. Though I fully believe without those cozy SN connections, the relationship would not have came to be.
Current boyfriend:
My SN conjunct his Vesta (1°) and Uranus (5°) His SN conjunct my Venus (2°) and Vesta (4°)
But also!
My NN conjunct his IC (1°)
Whereas I make no aspects to his North Node in Libra. I feel like he has REALLY changed me but I haven't changed him much - might be why he was comfortable getting into a relationship with me, a lack of challenge, defiance, etc.
Person A:
My Mars conjunct their NN (4°) Their Mars conjunct my NN (5°)
Also!
Their SN conjunct my ASC (5°)
God this person. Everything seems perfect, things are finally escalating, I can hear the horns of the universe blaring, announcing that Something Big Is Going To Happen, but then a bum note is hit. Everything deflates. Nothing happens, nothing will ever happen. But we have changed each other and propelled one another to do bigger and better things! The thought of actually being with this person always spawns an internal narrative like "oh but I don't have my shit together yet.. I need to do this and this and this, accomplish this, have this.. then we can be together." Could be the forward moving, Martian impulses that produce these thoughts.
Person B:
My Sun conjunct their NN (3°) Their Moon conjunct my NN (2°)
No SN connections.
Much like Person A, everything seems perfect, fated, and smooth sailing here. But there's more of an infuriating push-pull dynamic. One minute theyre icy, the next minute theyre hot, same goes for me, there can be excellent moments of symbiosis between us, sometimes there's bizarre, pedantic disagreement over something terribly stupid. Just as it seems things are coming to fruition... nope, nothing will actually take place, nothing will ever really take place. But they have given me a lot of good ideas for my future career, and they made me realize not everyone with a PhD is a total asshole.
So this is my long winded way of saying... yes, I agree!
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Post by lumina on May 28, 2018 15:58:02 GMT
Hmm, cannot agree with that totally. NN activation has never felt like an "uncloseable gap" to me, actually quite the opposite. I think h owever, if you are more attuned to NN or SN-synastry actually depends on how your personal planets are positioned. For example I do not have any planet in my SN-sign Gemini, while my NN-sign is Sagittarius, which contains my Sun, Mercury, Mars, Neptune and in fact NN is conjunct my ASC - someone activating my NN definitely feels like "my kind", while this is not true for SN for me. In his book "common sense synastry" Basil fearrington sais that the single most important factor really is a tight conjunction or square to the nodal axis in synastry. While I wouldn`t say it is the single most important one, its importance cannot be overstated, after all the nodal axis is a way to express the relationship between Sun, Moon and Earth. I come more and more to the conclusion however that the equation of SN = past and NN = future doesn`t quite cut it in all cases. What the nodes are about is connection, soulconnection (hence the importance of the draconics). If NN connections or SN connections do not lead to lasting relationships the reasons for htis are multilayered and found in the natal make up, but not in the fact that it was a conjunction to NN or SN or a square. Though I still am attached to the old terminology myself. Still a connection from the past can also be meant to be manifested in the present, just as a connection made by incorporating the NN can be made for the present and future. It depends on the overall picture. also look for DW squares ins ynastry to the nodes, and see what happens in the composite. Sometimes they will become conjunctions to the NN or SN in the compospite. Very telling I think.
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Post by lumina on May 28, 2018 17:52:56 GMT
Ava no, don´t think that is the Mercury on the NN, but more the Mercury-Neptune thing we have in all kind of variations. My brothers Moon-Jupiter-Uranus is on my NN btw and we are talking very very often. My Mercury is on a colleague`s NN and also we are in constant communication, so nope, that is not it. But a DW Mercury-Neptune-conjunction plut Mercury-Neptune in composite just experiencing a partile square of transiting Neptune THAT is difficult to navigate.
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Post by Ava on May 28, 2018 18:06:22 GMT
I still think there must be an open-endedness in general about one's natal NN. Something always looking for resolution. Like, an investigative or probing quality to the NN...and, being set on exploring, it doesn't quite settle down, but keeps looking and looking.*
Otherwise, what do you think the NN represents? Is there a guiding principle?
* Borrowing from Vedic conceptions of Rahu there...they describe it as insatiable.
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Post by lumina on May 28, 2018 19:09:59 GMT
I think there is an openendedness to anything actually. That is what life is about. But it is not necessarily limited to the NN. If anythin in terms of that I believe that it represents something that is already part of your nature, but you are not aware of it and someone helps you digging it out. (I realized that when understanding the Draco with my best friend, which is of course nothing else but a nodal chart seein with a magnifying glass. Her tropical Moon on my Draco Sun - she saw a quality in me that I could have sworn I lack, just to realize she is right, I have that quality, and it feels complete digging into it. It is insatiable because it brings you in contact with yourself, and every soul is endless in their potential, you can spend lifetimes and will never get to an end of a personality).
Other than that however I really think that the nodal axis is mainly about connection, and since there is the Moon-factor involved, it is mostly feeling quite compulsive. no matter if conjunction, opposition or square. They are all having that "I must get close to that person" kind of feel - if you CAN get close to that person and stay there, depends of course on the natal and synastry surrounding the planet in question that aspects the nodal axis.
My parents could easily get close to each other, though in their case they do have both ends (well my Dad has) triggered. My Mom`s Jupiter on his NN (and sextile his Sun closely) and her Saturn on his SN and conjunct his Mars and trine his Sun and Venus-Jupiter. That worked out well for them. And nope, not just because there was a SN-conjunction to Saturn.
Actually I think a lack of nodal synastry (close nodal synastry) or having an isolated planet on one end or square the axis might be the most challenging.
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Post by Ava on May 28, 2018 19:50:24 GMT
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Post by lumina on May 28, 2018 19:57:33 GMT
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Post by Ava on May 28, 2018 20:01:32 GMT
I think this cafeastrology article is either in line with conventional wisdom, or the originator of many assumptions swirling around on the internet, and/or just basically true.
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Post by Ava on May 28, 2018 20:24:36 GMT
My parents could easily get close to each other, though in their case they do have both ends (well my Dad has) triggered. My Mom`s Jupiter on his NN (and sextile his Sun closely) and her Saturn on his SN and conjunct his Mars and trine his Sun and Venus-Jupiter. That worked out well for them. And nope, not just because there was a SN-conjunction to Saturn. Mmm, I was surprised cafeastrology lady says Saturn aspecting nodes is separative. I thought Saturn-SN was *the* past-life-together aspect. And I can think of many longstanding relationships with Saturn-node synastry or composite. Well your Saturn is trine my progressed NN, so cheers. Speaking of "insatiable" I could talk about this topic until the cows come home (and I have no cows, so imagine how long that would take!) But I'll try and be quiet. Hope others share their experiences.
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Post by lumina on May 28, 2018 20:54:09 GMT
ABout Saturn-SN-synastry........... (DW actually) and -..... insatiable
not my fault, you made me do it. lol
If two people have karmic synastry it is probably us. Well probably a good thing we are far away from each other`s life. lol
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2018 0:55:38 GMT
This is extremely relatable. Person A, whom I have that Mars/Node DW with, is someone who constantly sets off alarm bells for me, like the Universe is whispering in my ear, " this person is going to break your heart" - might be why I stay far away from them (and yet constantly mourn them from that distance). I never really notice squares to my nodes but I should pay more attention to that.. last month's Full Moon was almost exactly square my nodal axis which set off a long series of Indiana Jones'-esque traps in the most insane way possible. Analyzing something like that, but via synastry, I'm sure would yield something interesting and fruitful. It's really difficult for me to understand the nodal axis. I have Moon conj NN and yet the energy of it all eludes me, even this enlightening topic being hashed out by you and lumina is difficult for me to.. get intellectually.
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Post by lumina on May 29, 2018 7:47:22 GMT
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Post by Ava on May 29, 2018 13:47:25 GMT
It's really difficult for me to understand the nodal axis. I have Moon conj NN and yet the energy of it all eludes me, even this enlightening topic being hashed out by you and lumina is difficult for me to.. get intellectually. Well, same. I put a lot of stock in The Secret Language of Destiny, free online @ www.thesecretlanguageofbirthdays.com if you have FB. And I'm seeing, I can access it through Google if I search with specific terms. Hmm. edit
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Post by Ava on May 29, 2018 14:11:22 GMT
ABout Saturn-SN-synastry........... (DW actually) and -..... insatiable Haha I have a DW with Elvis, my Saturn on his SN, his Saturn squaring my nodes and, more exactly, my draconic sun. Long ago and far away.......
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Post by lumina on May 29, 2018 18:56:08 GMT
AvaI was actually woken up with this here
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Post by lumina on May 29, 2018 18:57:08 GMT
I love the one you posted though!
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Post by 12YearsABlob on May 30, 2018 21:35:53 GMT
I think h owever, if you are more attuned to NN or SN-synastry actually depends on how your personal planets are positioned. For example I do not have any planet in my SN-sign Gemini, while my NN-sign is Sagittarius, which contains my Sun, Mercury, Mars, Neptune and in fact NN is conjunct my ASC - someone activating my NN definitely feels like "my kind", while this is not true for SN for me. In his book "common sense synastry" Basil fearrington sais that the single most important factor really is a tight conjunction or square to the nodal axis in synastry. While I wouldn`t say it is the single most important one, its importance cannot be overstated, after all the nodal axis is a way to express the relationship between Sun, Moon and Earth. --- Still a connection from the past can also be meant to be manifested in the present, just as a connection made by incorporating the NN can be made for the present and future. It depends on the overall picture.
Very interesting points, lumina.
I've always had trouble grasping the nodal squares in synastry. Could you give some examples off the top of your head? Or some general rule of thumb we could use as a starting point to interpret these...
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Post by lumina on May 31, 2018 11:59:46 GMT
12YearsABlobas general rule of thumb squares to the nodal axis are where the past merges with the future (hence the present!), as a square is on the midpoint of NN/SN. In evolutionary astrology it is called a "skipped step", and in my view it is something that will demand a lot of attention, and to even get to the NN, if you have such a square that is the way to getting there, or let`s put it differently no way around it, you have to integrate it. In my case it is jupiter that is squaring my nodal axis, and it is in my 3rd house, curiously it disposits my NN, too. So those 10-11 Pisces/Virgo are definitely something that is compelling and has to be integrated. Sticking out like a sore thumb. Actually it is what I see in synastry pretty often, squares to the nodal axis.Not in every synastry of course, but it is often there. Of course if you refuse to acknowledge that planet it can also be the very planet that is hitting you sideways when you think you are on your path, a bump in the road, a thorn in the side that is just really nagging you and reminding you that there is something you "missed". It might be in particular stressful if the squaring planet is Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto or Chiron. The personal planets are more like "I wanna have that. I need that", while the outer ones except Jupiter are often like "Ouch. I really don`t need that now! Go away, you are distracting me from where I am meant to go." (it is usually karmic business though with the outers, no way around it. You will face the restrictions/ responsibilities or the on/off energy or whatever). I have noticed that in particular Neptune on the SN or in square to the nodal axis in synastry often occurs in those huge dramatically failed (celebrity) relationships. It does not always dissolve that dramatically, but that is just what I had observed when researching the nodal axis, and I was NOT looking out to find this. I always want to believe in Neptune being good for relationships, just it seems that most people are not made for the kind of relationship Neptune demands. (esp. in square or opposition, possibly in some cases the quinkunx and an afflicted conjunction can be detrimental too, of Neptune to personal planets I mean,and especially if you are not a Neptunian person in nature - just imagine a poor Saturnian person being faced to have to live out a Neptune-relationship! just imagine how they might feel about that lack of boundaries and grounding and realism! Even though they might need it as a learingin experience, they probabl won`t feel too comfortable in it. maybe even feel there is "no sense" in such a relationship) Well so far the only exception to the Neptune on SN or square nodal axis I have found so far is my brother and his wife. They seem to be able to navigate her Neptune on his SN (and his MC). They are both Pisces and additionally her Mercury conjuncts his Mars in Aries, and squares his nodal axis (interestingly their son`s DESC falls onto his parent`s Mercury-Mars-conjunction) - they discuss it out, all of it, and at times pretty loudly. Though since the birth of the little one they seem to be much more agreeable with each other than before. Her Mercury disposits her Moon, and that Moon falls right onto my brother`s DESC, and her Sun is on his ASC, so there definitely is a strong relation there. As for the Mercury squaring his nodal axis, they would be lost (and lose each other) if they were not communicating with each other, and they have some different style of seeing things, so this is really important to them. Interestingly my brother has Mars as a skipped step (squaring his nodal axis) and he has always lacked initiative, engagement (in personal relationships; either you were there or not, he seemed to adapt to any kind of relationship changes easily, just accept things as they were - until his wife came along. With her things seemed suddenly different, the one woman he could NOT shake that easily, even though he desperately tried! and was realizing that not being around her made him feel truely miserably. but that has been years ago, their initial years together were fraught by a bit of drama but by now they are remarkably harmonious), and in fact he has never been very assertive, pretending it was not that important or even believing it. which also relates to stuff like engaging with shop-assistants. lol Aries Mars as skipped step, clearly, and Neptune on his own SN. Very complacent (very spiritual, too, a lot of brilliant insights in that head) and he meets, falls in love with and marries a woman with Aries-ASC and her Mercury in Aries on his skipped step! In the beginning he was deeply embarassed but also admired her fiery temperament in dealing with people, if there was someone assertive, it was her ! For as tiny she is, she isn`t taking crap from anyone! Well in the beginning she was a bit very defensive and felt attacked even if noone was attacking her, which has to do with some childhood issues (her father left her mother and her when she was being 3 years old, and their relationship was very difficult in her formative years, though it improved after her son`s birth). She got a lot more balanced after meeting my brother to be honest. More secure in herself and I suppose just knowing he has her back and is NOT going to leave her just because of that or this little thing, helped a lot too.
BTW his Sun is in a very wide square to her nodal axis, but in this instance they do have the mentioned SN-synastry as his Moon-Jupiter-Uranus falls onto her SN on 9 Sagittarius. Funny enough he also told me once that I would be so assertive and argumentative, albeit in a more subtle way. He also remarked on my "attracting personality", well he meant that somehow I just enter a room and I get the attention, that I pull people towards me without even realizing how much I do. Not by the way I look or something, but just by my personal energy. I never saw myself that way, more like I was lacking these qualities, but it`s something he obviously saw in me while growing up with me around. his SN is on 1 Capricorn, right in between my Sun on 26 Sag and my Venus on 6 Cap and on my Vesta on 1 Cap. While his Moon-Jupiter-Uranus falls right onto my own NN (and Neptune), squaring my own skipped step Jupiter. And my Venus on his SN is actually squaring his skipped step Mars. Also maybe more important his Sun is conjunct my skipped step Jupiter (wanna guess with whom I´ve been mainly discussing philosophy all my life? ) my IC is conjunct his skipped step Mars and my Pluto opposes it. (wanna guess whom he felt challenged by to somehow assert himself? We`ve never been really arguing, but discussing a lot, and I never got the feeling he was lacking in assertiveness, but it seems this was mainly in our interplay. My mom sometimes felt as if I was "overwhelming" him, sort of like he wanted be like me or be better like me, but never could really accomplish that. It`s something I never saw that way either. We are admiring each other for different strengths, at least nowadays we do. When we were kids and especially when I was meant to teach him Latin, we would get into real fights, luckily my mother was pretty wise and astute and separated us from each other, and I was not helping him with his homework anymore, unless HE asked for it. Even though my school-accomplishments really were not that great, he seemed to always think that, but he could never really succeed in those subjects I did. On the other hand I was a little jealous about how creative he was, making visions, music, whatever, out of nothing, refusing to learn a single note, and being able to sit down and play "Nothing else matters" for his sister jsut by having listened to the cd! Or his athletic skills! Or imitations of people! A real comedian/musician. I do admit though that it did frustrate me a bit about how little he was making out of his talents! Or actually it frustrated me that HE could never see and believe how talented he is. NOt everyone who has a talent needs to be on a stage,but he should at least believe in his talents. We are still working on that. ). Sorry for the story of our life. LOL But that is how i experienced the square firsthand.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jun 2, 2018 15:09:58 GMT
lumina , Ha! My Venus is on your skipped step.
Thanks for giving that real-life example!! I love that they were able to navigate Neptune on the nodes, with Mars as his skipped step. Triggered by her Aries mercury, no less. I can imagine how turbulent they must've been in the beginning.
"I do admit though that it did frustrate me a bit about how little he was making out of his talents! Or actually it frustrated me that HE could never see and believe how talented he is. NOt everyone who has a talent needs to be on a stage,but he should at least believe in his talents. We are still working on that. "
^ Yeah, he is a natural!! That's so rare.
I hope he does imbibe some of that belief from you.
Sorry to pick your brain again, but I was wondering how a planet like the moon or venus would play out, squaring somebody else's nodes?
Would that mean the person with the nodal axis would have trouble relating to them? Or will have to adopt a different PoV to understand where they're coming from? Since the squares trigger the midpoint of the nodal axis, could there be more opportunities to connect or could it be like two ships passing in the night?
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