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Post by 12YearsABlob on Oct 12, 2019 3:38:44 GMT
It explores (briefly) the core wound that was internalized to form this Chiron-complex. I believe in this particular form of natal chart analysis (i.e., I often apply "environmental messages" as part of the natal aspects), so this makes sense to me.
For instance: (from the above source) You can read about all other planet/chiron configurations on that site.
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Post by anela on Oct 12, 2019 8:22:45 GMT
P.S. It says there, under Leo Chiron: "You might even feel guilty for enjoying downtime" Yeeeeep. But I suppose anyone with Virgo in their chart would say the same.. I think I have trouble relaxing, because my mum is no longer here, so I don't have a reason to be here anymore (not working, feeling like a burden, being told that I am a burden, by one Uncle, when he said that I needed to find a husband, and then my dad could remarry). I have all this time to myself, but I barely get anything done, and I can't concentrate on books or TV, half the time. Then, when I am more relaxed, I look at all of the unread books, and my lists on Amazon and Netflix, the podcasts on my phone, etc, and think, "Damn, I could have got through half of this, if I weren't so messed up". Or painting various rooms here, getting a garden planted, decluttering. I created art when I was surrounded by my family, and happy. When I could focus. I got a lot done in those days (before the internet, or when I had limited access to it), and we actually spent time together. "* Feeling fundamentally alone and like I don't really belong in a relationship * Overly sensitive to criticism" This is me (and I will edit, I just wanted to add that I feel this way, often). On the one hand, I know how to stand up for myself (I meant to quote 12YearsABlob here), but it's so nice when someone has your back. Oh well, I feel like I belong here, right now, thanks to you, but there is this feeling of not really mattering, too often. Earlier in the year, I realized that I don't take care of myself the way I used to, although I try to a point. I just don't feel a part of the world, I'm alone too often. I might edit this out. I need to get to sleep, and am feeling a bit emotional now (I hate being up all night, too often, and here I am again).
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Post by anela on Oct 12, 2019 8:28:10 GMT
Sorry for the swearing in this, but when S told me that I was arrogant for thinking I was a good person, this was my response: Aries Sun FTW, coming out when it's needed.
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Post by Ava on Oct 12, 2019 9:41:37 GMT
Thank you ladies for your comments & insights <3 Just reading as I'm leaving for work; be back later. Happy Saturday
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Oct 12, 2019 15:03:46 GMT
Thanks!! Don't you mean....Caturday?
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Oct 12, 2019 15:14:43 GMT
Sorry for the swearing in this, but when S told me that I was arrogant for thinking I was a good person Lol.. Sorry, but that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard! And he's totally not arrogant for spouting doctrine like he's the freakin' messiah.
Re: feeling like a burden.. I hear you, and I completely get that. I wish things weren't so that you feel your value is tied to how "productive" or not you are. While I'm wishing for things, I should instead wish you get your artistic pursuits back. And that you find your independence again.
But all the same, it does seem like a mindset that's been cultivated deep within us, that we can't get rid of. This need to do something.
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Post by lumina on Oct 12, 2019 17:26:22 GMT
anela cool badass ariesworthy reaction to the outrageous nunsense yiu were being subjected to. 👍
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Post by lumina on Oct 13, 2019 9:45:48 GMT
My draco. Chiron is in leo. 9 degrees, makes a gt with Ps draco chiron on 8 sag and his dr mars and dr jupiter and dr name on 9 and 8 aries. His dr eros and my dr name are on 7 and 8 libra in his chart, conjunct my tropical pluto on 9 libra. Always found that interesting. Of course my dr chiron also squsres his tropical chiron on 9 taurus. Lol
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Post by Ava on Oct 13, 2019 17:40:03 GMT
It explores (briefly) the core wound that was internalized to form this Chiron-complex. I believe in this particular form of natal chart analysis (i.e., I often apply "environmental messages" as part of the natal aspects), so this makes sense to me.
For instance: (from the above source) You can read about all other planet/chiron configurations on that site. Thank you for this link! This sun-Chiron description doesn't really resonate for me; I suppose it's too wide a square in my case (about 7° orb). I did have some difficulties with my dad, but would never accuse him of "betrayal," even though certain incidents felt a bit like that (for example, my sister persuaded him to throw out all my stuff after I got married, rather than giving me a chance to come pick it up.) Growing up, he definitely wanted me to shine as brightly as I felt comfortable with (his Leo moon and draco sun conjunct my ASC.) The Chiron-Jupiter description from that link does describe me, especially with 9H Chiron. I was a religious zealot, sort of. I felt strongly about my religious beliefs for a few years. Fortunately I never had the guts to proselytize even though the Bible told me to...I just wouldn't. Still, a lot of people remember that I went through that phase, came to distrust me, and never looked at me the same again, even after I got back to being my old self. So I guess that is a lingering wound. My Jupiter and Chiron are exactly conjunct in progressions mid-July, 2033, @ 25° Aries (on rectified MC). My pr moon will be @ 22 Aries then -- wait for it -- conjunct transiting Neptune (!!!) @ 20 Aries. That whole chart with transits is funky; when it rains it pours. But anyway, back to synastry..... We have an interesting knot in ours, where your Chiron is on my ASC, which is disposited by my sun. Then your NN-Neptune-draco sun are on my sun, while my Chiron/draco Neptune opposes your sun/draco Chiron. OMG so many suns, Chirons, Neptunes! Squinting into the bright clouds and trying to see. But we do alright. I don't like talking either, by the way. It's painful for me to talk (more painful to remember all the cr*p I've said), but I feel pressure to verbalize. Come to think of it that might partly be Jupiter-Chiron already (?)...they are conjunct in progressions with about 2° orb. Hope that has more of a healing than harming effect on others but I don't hand out feedback surveys or anything so all I can do is hope it's alright.
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Post by lumina on Oct 13, 2019 18:53:29 GMT
Ava your sister seems like a bitch, bluntly put. Or at least she was that time when you got married. Hopefully she grew out of it. As for Chiron, honestly I think 7 degrees are too wide for an aspect with Chiron. It is not a planet after all, it is not an asteroid either of course. lol Anyway it is located in between Saturn and Uranus, and hence is the bridge from our earthly life, the everyday life to the transpersonal and spiritual sphere, just randomly putting it out here. lol But it means that Chiron also a rate of motion that is somewhere in between Saturn and Uranus, so pretty slow. Hence I would assign him somewhat smaller orbs, though maybe not as small as for the asteroids. I do feel comfortable with 3 degree orbs for Chiron, up to 5 might also be okay, but I am not really feeling comfortable with those anymore. But then again when have I ever felt comfortable with large orbs. LOL Unless of course the planets are part of a larger aspect figure and making midpoints, I guess I sound like a broken record. lol Anyway, the Jupiter-Chiron is interesting of course and seems very fitting. You made me curious though, not progressionwise, but since my solar arc Jupiter is at 26 or 27 Aries now, it must have conjuncted my natal Chiron somewhen in the last decade. Do we want to take a guess which period it is going to point to? I haven`t looked it up yet, but I am almost CERTAIN, just on a hunch, it will take us back to summer 2012/ start 2013. Because it ALL leads back to that point in time it seems!
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Post by lumina on Oct 13, 2019 19:31:37 GMT
okay, looked it up
sa Jupiter was exact conjunct natal Chiron at the end of january 2013 (it was in orb from july/august 2012 until uly/august 2013, though they say the applying time is stronger, and the effects lessen considerably after its peak and after an aftermath, some astrologers say, it would only maybe be in effect for 3 months after the peak or so).
But the freaky thing is, at that day/ week, I also had sa Moon on 25°56 Sag EXACTLY squaring my natal Sun on 25°56 Sag.
and sa Uranus on 10°11 Sag had just had its exact conjunction to my n NN on 10°09 Sag.
And transitwise: 1 degree orb
Tr Jupiter conjunct DESC Tr Saturn trine Jupiter Tr Uranus conjunct IC, trine Mars and square Venus Tr Neptune trine Uranus (of course sa Uranus was still in orb of conjunct n NEptune as well: just 15 minutes separating) Tr Pluto just out of the 1 degree orb of squaring n Pluto Tr Chiron square ASC and still conjunct Pholus, I suppose it was going retro in spring 2013, to deliver some unforeseen but consequential blow. lol
and transits to solar arcs
Tr Mars opposite sa Saturn (and actually sextile natal Sun and Mercury, and sa Saturn was applying to trine those two in a bit)
the important ones were to the natal placements though.
Anyway just thought this was interesting, how several things coincided, and nope, no clue how to interprete sa Jupiter conjunct n Chiron. lol
obviously this fell into a very important time in my life when I made some major decisions, one of them being taking the responsibility for my own life. which among other things also came about after a very massive fallout with my mother (we reconciled quickly though) and some very honest and tough talk with my father (this actually happened on 17th/ 18th november 2012)
I do think it was only then that I started to realize that actually I am the one deciding about my life, and that my decisions make my life, and that if I am not going to live it, noone else will or can. And it is not up to my parents or the universe or karma or anyone else to do that for me, my life, my responsibility, my choices.
Unfortunately in some regard I made my choice too late. But in other regards I guess it was simply the start of a new life.
Well 4 days later I walked into that weight watcher meeting and despite it being weird, frankly speaking, I enrolled, and a year later or so the coach had told me she would never have thought that I would come back again, and I told her: Neither did I.
But I did, and lost over 50 kilos over the next 2 years. But the shedding of this weight was just a symptom of course, I started working on myself. I mean for real. I still am, or maybe again. lol
But with all the mess that has been going on emotionally, too, in the following years, frankly I´ve never been happier and more myself than I started to be then. It is so odd to say that, if I think about the disappointments that also came, but at least I started to feel "alive" in a way. Don`t know it is actually difficult to relate to the person I had been before.
I guess though it does make sense, Jupiter rules my 1st house after all, and Chiron is in my 4th house.
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Post by lumina on Oct 13, 2019 20:30:39 GMT
there is also an oddity in my chart, as it seems that everytime someone dies, there is a solar arc direction activating my natal Chiron.
When I was 3, my maternal great grandfather died, the first death in my life so to speak: sa Saturn was completing the square to natal Chiron
when my maternal grandmother died (the other side of my mother`s grandparents) and just within 2 weeks my great uncle (those was the side of family living close to P`s hometown): sa Pluto opposite my natal Chiron; sa Chiron opposing my natal Uranus (though this was more exact at the time my grandmother got really sick, the death of my great uncle was a heartattack, totally surprising though).
When my paternal grandfather died, sa Venus was squaring n Chiron - though again this was more exact when he was hospitalized, and at the time of the actual passing this solar arc was pretty much already out of orb, or fading out; sa IC was conjunct n Chiron (applying phase) though
When my maternal grandfather died, sa Sun was squaring n Chiron - though once more this was more exact in the time he became sick, or actually when it became evident, that he wouldn`t recover again
sa MC was on the verge of entering Scorpio
and then when my paternal grandmother died, sa Jupiter was just fading out of conjunct n Chiron (0°28 s)
this seems to be only true in regards to family members though, I checked other deaths who left a very strong impresson on me, but while there were descriptive arcs, they were not aiming so much at my n Chiron.
Though now in retrospect it seems, that those Chiron-arcs were mostly due during the time of "preparation for the transition", or in other words, sickness, hospitalization and similiar things.
I guess it even makes sense, since Chiron is the one leading from the personal human into the transpersonal spiritual sphere, and that would be one manifestation of it.
LUckil there are some nicer one, like meditation for example. lol
And I am sure that this is not true for everyone, it just seems to be an oddity in my chart, and I guess it does not have to be this way, hopefully, but challenging aspects to Chiron are not to be taken lightly I think.
now that makes me wonder how P has been faring with his
sa Moon square Chiron (exact this march 2019, and that means valid from september 2018 - september 2019, just fading out) sa MC square Chiron (exact july 2019)
and in a few years he is going to have
sa Sun square Chiron (exact november 2021) sa Saturn opposite Chiron (exact january 2022)
ugh.
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Post by lumina on Oct 13, 2019 20:43:34 GMT
btw noone died when my sa ASC was squaring n Chiron.
and this year I have had a DW of
sa Mars square Chiron (january 2019) sa Chiron opposite Mars (april 2019)
Well the grandfater of my sister in law was very sick and died, but he died in july I think, or end of june, which was sad of course.
But what is downright weird is that when sa Chiron on 5°10 Gemini was opposing my n Mars on 5°10 Sag exactly, I was actually seeing P after a show of Jesus Christ Superstar, and when I asked him about his favourite quote or the one he was spontaneously thinking of to write on my program (the only time I ever actually asked for some sort of autograph in like over 10 years. lol and then it was not even a normal one. lol)
and well he wrote his (and curiously my favourite quote fromt he show, not favourite like I like it so much, but it just somehow got stuck. lol) quote and it was:
"To conquer death you only have to die".
Somehow my Chiron actually does seem to resonate with that death-symbolism in some way maybe also metaphorically, death and rebirth or something like that. well my natal Chiron is conjunct PHOINIX by 3 minutes.
But still that very precise sa Chiron opposing n Mars AND I coincidentally see P that night AND he writes a quote about death down for me - how weird is that really?
I mean it is already weird on its own - I think an aquaintance once asked Lancelot to write down something from a show he was thinking of as important, and he was writing something like: "Dream big"
But P is writing about death? And I even on an emotional level "get" this? I mean to anyone else seeing that signature on my program it must seem more than weird, but with our background it just somehow makes sense.
But it still is a strange thing.
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Post by lumina on Oct 13, 2019 20:47:24 GMT
Oh and btw I was seeing him on that thurday before Good friday, so basically I was seeing him as Jesus on stage, the day the last supper and the night in Gethsemane would have taken place according to the bible. And I only realized that when he was being chastitized and criticized online by some people, because he was putting up a post on good friday showing a blue sky, easter eggs a tree and writing: "Happiness has many faces. This is one." LOL UNtil the people pointed out that it was not appropriate to do that on Good friday, I wasn`t even aware of it, but I shared his sentiment. And I am sure Jesus wouldn`t mind. LOL
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Oct 13, 2019 20:49:55 GMT
Ava , Yeah, your sister definitely had issues. Well, I suppose one could say she had bigger mental problems than what we'd call just "issues". At any rate, it seems like you always had to deal with the consequences of her actions.
"OMG so many suns, Chirons, Neptunes! Squinting into the bright clouds and trying to see. "
Lol - I know right, it's crazy how many planets we have around those degrees of the zodiac. I recently met *another* Sun square Saturn person who has draconic sun in Cap. So it really makes me wonder, if we carry over our most "prominent" natal qualities into draconic, or vice-versa. But I should leave that for the draconic thread. I completely forgot your Asc was around that degree too. For some reason, I keep thinking of it being near 0° (because I'm probably thinking of your Saturn).
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Post by Ava on Oct 13, 2019 21:45:34 GMT
Thank you ladies. My family is talking to me and everything seems like a whirlwind but just a few thoughts. - My sister and I haven't spoken for 7 years and probably never will again...so if I think of it, all our lives, we were headed for that total breakdown. We have sun conjunct Chiron in composite, a little over 3° with her noon chart. Yeah, no hard feelings, she's not all there. Edit: But the fact that they would throw out my stuff, I mean irreplaceable things like old letters from friends, artwork I had done, and other sentimental items...it's a pretty good representation of what I mean when I say that I could not live with them. It also wasn't the first time my stuff had been thrown away. - lumina , all those hits to your Chiron with deaths.....so strange. I haven't associated Chiron with death. I'll have to come back and look at things more closely. I love that you predicted the time for SA Jupiter to natal Chiron, based on feelings and events! - 12YearsABlob "So it really makes me wonder, if we carry over our most "prominent" natal qualities into draconic, or vice-versa." Yeah.....it's curious, and I don't even know what my dominant theme would be. Seems I've got a task list a mile long in every sign (splash chart). My draconic Chiron @ 3 Virgo is conjunct my husband's natal Mercury-Pluto, and that really does tell a story. This was short but full moon in Aries with a bunch of kids and a puppy means, I wrote this with a lot of noise and distractions. Hope to come back soon and delve into this more. Happy full moon
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Oct 14, 2019 0:55:03 GMT
^Yeah, and it could just be a coincidence that our draconic suns are in Cap. I haven't noticed that with everyone who has Sun-Saturn, or conversely, with every draco Cap sun.. Well, when I was looking at charts, I was wondering about each planet individually (why the moon is that or Venus is this) but that didn't get me anywhere specific..
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Post by Ava on Oct 14, 2019 1:35:37 GMT
^ To me it's just fascinating to see repetitions of themes 12YearsABlob . Well I forgot my sister and I have our draconic Mercuries conjunct in Gemini, so no wonder people regarded us as two sides of one problem? Anything she did to me always seemed to invite the question, "So what did you do to deserve it?" Because some of these things were seriously bad, I occasionally retaliated, so I could never say "Nothing." I just got lost in the cycle. Another little pitstop post, but lumina , your Chiron is on your Uranus/Pluto midpoint, so maybe that's a factor when it comes to SA to Chiron coinciding with deaths? edit
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Post by lumina on Oct 14, 2019 10:23:40 GMT
[quote author=" 12YearsABlob" source="/post/33196/thread" timestamp="1570999795"So it really makes me wonder, if we carry over our most "prominent" natal qualities into draconic, or vice-versa. [/div][/quote] In my case I noticed that some draco placements mirror the tropical planets on my node Mars and neptune in my Nn and I have draco mars, asc and neptune in aries, draco sun, mercury and venus are in aries. Draco moon is in gemini conj my sn by 3 degrees and desc exact.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Oct 14, 2019 12:55:50 GMT
Yeah, like Ava said.. There's a repetition of themes. My natal venus is quintile Pluto, and draco Venus in Scorpio conjunct natal Pluto.. And of course, the planets square Saturn are in Cap. And you're right lumina, planets closely conjunct the NN are in late Pisces or early Aries (or 0° Aries if exact).
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