|
Post by 12YearsABlob on Oct 7, 2019 15:15:03 GMT
What have been your experiences? Hoping to gain some clarity by comparing notes...
Gonna start this with a great description I found on an old site. Sorry to reference it, but I thought this was on point.
|
|
|
Post by 12YearsABlob on Oct 7, 2019 15:18:47 GMT
The other day, I was just thinking about how this friend of mine can hurt me so deeply by just being himself. I was really struggling with this because I know there's (usually) no malice or ill-intent, but it cuts so deep I have a hard time getting over it, years after the fact. Well, I am the kind of person that can't get over things for years on end - but there's a different quality to this type of pain. It's very raw, and constantly grinds on a sore spot. It suddenly occurred to me that his Sun closely squares my Chiron. Quite a literal symbolism for "he hurts me by simply being himself". It is exactly as Lotis described above. I feel like the Chiron person is so crippled in this regard, it's up to the planet person to figure out and fix this source of hurt.
|
|
|
Post by 12YearsABlob on Oct 7, 2019 15:21:55 GMT
On the other hand, my Venus was closely conjunct somebody's Chiron and that ended quite abruptly. Here, as the planet person, I am at a loss because although I have an inkling about why they may have felt rejected, I have no idea how to fix it. Their Saturn is on my moon, though - so the perceived rejection goes both ways and I can't express myself as much as I'd like.
|
|
|
Post by Ava on Oct 7, 2019 18:03:06 GMT
I'm myopic about this. My ex roommate basically just killed me, as I said.....her sun conjunct my Chiron. I associate Chiron with her though it's not altogether fair, I just replay all the awfulness sometimes. At the same time I am grateful to her because it's been an ongoing opportunity for training myself to let go of bitterness. The bitterness comes, I actively defuse it, and forgive her. Then it comes again, and I let it go. This is how I know myself as someone who can forgive and let it go, over and over, even though it might not be total forgiveness (or else the bitter feeling would stop returning.) On the brighter side, I've had positive experiences with people whose sun are conjunct my Chiron. (Like anela .) My best friend's son's sun conjunct my Chiron and when he was a toddler I'd scoop him up and take him for long walks and we had all kinds of things to talk about...the moon and stars, flowers...nature, really. He is the sweetest kid still (though in his 20s). I think I've not quite gotten the full story with sun conjunct Chiron. Maybe I still have to see my ex roommate again sometime in the future. Maybe she can tell me something good. Pls don't quote
|
|
|
Post by anela on Oct 8, 2019 3:19:01 GMT
My Chiron is conjunct my own Sun (and Mercury, widely), so I'm affected by that, as well as anyone else's. I don't know what to think.
|
|
|
Post by 12YearsABlob on Oct 8, 2019 17:00:47 GMT
Ava, Hmm, your story is also about someone hitting your "soft underbelly", as it were. Things that we're so vulnerable about that it's hard to recover from. Somehow, people with planets on your Chiron have a direct view of those things and an uncanny ability to deliver a crushing blow. anela, Yeah, that can change things. I remember my first vivid impression of Chironic energy in the natal chart was actually on a TV show. This guy, a talented chef, was the runner up on Top chef season 2. He was relentlessly picked on and bullied so badly, I wanted to personally punish each one of those people. (The head judge, also an Aqua moon, wanted to eliminate all three that did the worst bullying, but was overruled by producers). Yes, that guy was a bit defensive, but who wouldn't be? He was no more quirky or annoying than the rest of them. People just tend to gang up on someone they sense is not going to fight back. It's a really ugly mentality. Anyway, I looked up his chart and he also has Sun conjunct Chiron. Big hugs to you both. <3
|
|
|
Post by lumina on Oct 8, 2019 17:31:37 GMT
I would agree with everything, except I am not sure Chiron really symbolizes a "broken part", but rather it seems to highlight where we are extremely vulnerable, maybe also easily to experience feelings of shame and guilt, because of a "perceived" flaw, but this does not always have to be true. Also in synastry Chiron, esp. in relation to Mars (and maybe Venus too), seems to be very physical, attractive, sensual, while the other bit is also true, about the underbelly, about flaws we see in ourselves etc. but it just does not seem to be a coincidence how often Chiron and Mars are aspected in snastry. does not mean all is well of course. Chiron means: hand in English, and there is also something about the physical touch, massages, Reiki etc. to be almost shamanistic and healing, if things go well. However squares or oppositions to Chiron, uoh, and esp. from the harsher energies might be just too much. Personally I have not experienced Sun on my Chiron as problematic, though as very intriguing, def. attractive to me in a personality kind of way, painful sometimes but usually without the fualt of the other person. it was more circumstantial in the one case I am thinking of. Maybe there is also some sort of envy or maybe just admiration for the ease of the planetary person to express the signs energy, while Chiron is tiptoing around it basically, and has to dig deep to dig it out. but that might just be my experience.
|
|
|
Post by Ava on Oct 8, 2019 20:31:15 GMT
Sabian reading for my Chiron degree: " Aries 24 is also, interestingly, associated with the inclination to withdraw, to contemplate, or simplify one's situation rather than rush to sort complicated situations." sabiansymbol.typepad.com/blain_bovee_sabian_symbol/2010/04/aries-24-an-open-window-and-a-net-curtain-blowing-into-a-cornucopia.htmlMy Pisces moon compounds this tendency to withdraw. Well someone could say, "That's selfish" (Aries) "You need to step up to the plate and interact with people, especially if you helped create the situation..." There's a point where I plead nolo contendere, no contest. It's every person for themselves. Well I can set myself up for trouble by taking too much upon myself, because I believe it's just me. So for example, my father (sun-Mars opposing my Chiron) and sister (Mars opposing my Chiron) claimed the whole house for themselves, basically, while I was away at college. There was no home to come to. I could have stayed and kept fighting with them, like "I have a right to be here" or something like that, but I had zero desire to play it that way. I simply left. I moved into my husband's house (his Mars trine my Chiron, my Chiron trine his.) It's not like that's been easy but I will say that when I withdraw, he has the tendency to steer clear and just leave me alone, for as long as it takes before I come around again. There are many things he does not understand about me but he does seem to just *get* that I need to be alone. This is one of the longevity factors in our relationship, the breathing room I get. Sometimes I feel uneasy posting but I get so obsessed with trying to get to the bottom of what things mean that I spend a lot of time focusing on the puzzle. But I feel weird leaving this up so, sorry but it might come down again.
|
|
|
Post by 12YearsABlob on Oct 8, 2019 23:35:50 GMT
I would agree with everything, except I am not sure Chiron really symbolizes a "broken part", but rather it seems to highlight where we are extremely vulnerable, maybe also easily to experience feelings of shame and guilt, because of a "perceived" flaw, but this does not always have to be true. Oh yes, I see.. Thanks for adding that, it's an important angle. Also in synastry Chiron, esp. in relation to Mars (and maybe Venus too), seems to be very physical, attractive, sensual, while the other bit is also true, about the underbelly, about flaws we see in ourselves etc. but it just does not seem to be a coincidence how often Chiron and Mars are aspected in snastry. does not mean all is well of course. Chiron means: hand in English, and there is also something about the physical touch, massages, Reiki etc. to be almost shamanistic and healing, if things go well. Omg, you're bringing back memories for me. Didn't know this was a Chiron thing, but now I do, thanks..!
How would you see a Venus-Chiron conjunction in synastry? I absolutely do not understand all that's posted online. They don't really differentiate between different planet contacts to Chiron (at least not in a way that's clear to me).
|
|
|
Post by 12YearsABlob on Oct 8, 2019 23:36:23 GMT
That makes sense with Chiron in Aries. Your very self-hood at stake, your "place" in the world (so to speak) - all the things Aries is about. One of the driving forces of Aries seems to be discovering their purpose and forging their own path, being true to that all along. I wonder if it also has something to do with your initiative/decision-making being accepted/not accepted? Considering that Aries is a cardinal sign, that might also be a part of it (?)
Oh and I just realized my Sun opposes your Chiron too...yikes! :S Looks like we have a mini-lab example right here.
|
|
|
Post by Ava on Oct 9, 2019 2:59:44 GMT
Thank you 12YearsABlob . Seems like half my family has something in late Libra (so it's like home to me) and I've consistently met people born around your birthday. It's not like, say, Gemini, where I barely have known ANY Geminis over the course of my life, aside from my grandmothers and one friend. I think you're right about Aries Chiron...well I don't know how it affects relationships...I'm not sure what people think of me? I said the oddest thing yesterday. My coworker instructed me to move my cart across the room so I wouldn't be blocking someone else, and he explained that I could simply walk back and forth across the room repeatedly to do my job. I contemplated doing that since I like walking but instead replied, "That's not fair to me." I never say anything like that, but it was such an obvious, "You should sacrifice yourself for that other person" command, no other words came to mind. Life just drew those words out of me for once. "What about me? Ever think of that?" Transiting Chiron in Aries opposing Libra Mars, maybe this introduced a replay of my family issues (? no idea.) === Anyway I'm sorry to have been brain dead here in commenting on your experiences. My best friend's Venus is conjunct my Chiron so reading about separation in your case, it gave me some anxiety (like, "Oh God, no way can she ever leave me"). You didn't mention your Chiron sign but maybe that's a factor somehow? I don't want to "out" your Chiron by discussing our synastry there.... === Overall I'm wondering if the Chiron person does tend to feel helpless or hopeless in that one spot. When I was lectured and scolded by an Aries moon (conjunct my Chiron) I remember thinking, "How does it come so easily to you, to speak so authoritatively about me? What are you even grounded in?" They didn't have to be grounded, they just said what they wanted to say. About me. Not caring if they were right or wrong, just throwing ideas out. I can't imagine doing that because I feel like everything has to be grounded in universal principles or something. It's not enough if I myself think it. It has to be some kind of Truth or objective reality (astrology) or belief system. I can't imagine saying, "I think you're just a ___________" because I don't see myself as someone who can know things like that. Well I have 9H Chiron and my progressed Chiron is conjunct Jupiter, so it's complicated, and the whole thing is welded into religion/spirituality I guess. And love (Jupiter dispositing my Venus). Overtalking as usual and may delete some of this later...
|
|
|
Post by 12YearsABlob on Oct 9, 2019 4:42:56 GMT
Anyway I'm sorry to have been brain dead here in commenting on your experiences. My best friend's Venus is conjunct my Chiron so reading about separation in your case, it gave me some anxiety (like, "Oh God, no way can she ever leave me"). You didn't mention your Chiron sign but maybe that's a factor somehow? Well, no, it was the other way around - my Venus on his Chiron.. And don't worry, you & your friend are totally different. We weren't exactly friends and it was a short-lived association.
Speaking of my Chiron - it's in Leo, widely square mercury... Yeah, you're right, it plays a role whenever some planet falls between those degrees. Gotta run now, will think about it and be back later.
|
|
|
Post by lumina on Oct 9, 2019 10:48:14 GMT
How would you see a Venus-Chiron conjunction in synastry? Not sure. Well my parents have it in their marriage chart and it turned out well for them. interestingly P`s wife has her Mercury-Venus conjunction conjunct my Chiron by 3 degrees - leaving the obvious interpretations aside, I was pretty amazed, how someone can 1. be sure about what they want and 2nd. go after and get what they want (never mind the method and really without considering anything or anyone else). On some level I find that admirable and through "meeting" her I certainly learned quite a bit in this regard. But at the same time I have a rather critical view here and even leaving P out of it, she just grates on my nerves. lol Esp that playing innocent little girl, and it is beyond me, how other people, no matter if men or women, cannot see through that display of wideyed cute innocence and NOT see the steely determination behind it, and yes, manipulation as well. But I think that is an issue I have with March-Aries in general, esp. women. April-born Aries are somehow different. But I guess on some level I owe it to her great example to even realize that I want something. And no it is not her husband. lol Just generally speaking. You have to know you want something to even start the process of getting it (or maybe not getting it). this singlemindedness of Aries can be refreshing! I have all my personal planets in transpersonal signs, I am always overthinking. lol Well the critical view on my part might stem from my Saturn being exactly square her mercury and Venus, too (and my Pluto exactly opposes her Sun - no wonder she doesn`t like me. lol) Interstingly my Draco Sun is exactly conjunct her Draco Chiron just 2 degrees off her tropical Mercury and Venus. But well it`s not exactly "true love" between us. LOL Even though Venus-Chiron is often related to that in books, and in marriages/ relationships this might actually be true. Or actually there is the chance for this to happen. It depends how it is aspected. I just feel that Chiron is that place where we are so sore and vulnerable, we do not have defense mechanism there. So if someone touches us there and attacks us, it is nothing we can just shrug off, it hits deep. even just a coincdentally rude remark (like Mars is able of) or just a superficial observation (Venus-domain). People might not even intend to hurt us, but it just touches that sore spot in us. On the other hand if someone is appreciative and loving us there, which could also be Venus in aspect to Chiron, it might feel just as deep. I mean if someone can accept that - to us - unacceptable part of us, how great is that?
|
|
|
Post by 12YearsABlob on Oct 11, 2019 20:04:25 GMT
Oh, how could I forget... Someone who had their sun conjunct my chiron did exactly all that traditionally 'triggers' me... Passive-aggressive public displays, plenty of unresolved (unresolveable) conflict and the classic abrupt departure with neither remorse nor closure.
If they/you are reading this, well, bully for you, mate.
That was just one example, but that's the only one I recall right now.
|
|
|
Post by anela on Oct 11, 2019 21:32:13 GMT
That was just one example, but that's the only one I recall right now. Can I ask where your Chiron is? You don't have to tell me, I'm just curious. I edited out the rest in the quote, in case you want to edit. Athena mentioned people with Chiron conjunct personal planets, just lashing out at her for no reason (at LL). It occurred to me that it could have looked that way for me (to people there), versus someone on another board, except that isn't the case.
|
|
|
Post by 12YearsABlob on Oct 11, 2019 22:31:33 GMT
Can I ask where your Chiron is? You don't have to tell me, I'm just curious. I edited out the rest in the quote, in case you want to edit. Thank you for that! That's so thoughtful of you... <3
My Chiron is at 8° Leo, widely square my own Mercury in Scorpio. Sort of counting that square because Jewel Mayberry does and those mercury-chiron square issues do apply to me..
(But I could be mis-attributing that).
|
|
|
Post by Ava on Oct 12, 2019 0:21:24 GMT
I wonder what the difference is between Aries and Leo Chiron, since both signs are associated with the self? cafeastrology.com/articles/chironinthesigns.htmlThoughts? It's hard for me to put this into words because I think I'll sound disingenuous. People in my life tell me that I take it too far, with feeling invisible and feeling like every single other person/organism is more important and valuable than me. I basically don't even care anymore, I've just gotten used to it. But I feel extremely vulnerable if someone notices I go through life like this, calls attention to it. I don't know if that is Chiron in Aries but it seems to match the description. What bothers me is when people act like I have a choice. "Stop ACTING like you think other people are better than you." As if it's a manipulation or something. I am not conscious of that. Maybe this is the wide Chiron-sun square? Pr Chiron-Jupiter? Chiron conjunct draconic Neptune? I don't want to speak for anyone else with this placement. But maybe these relationship liabilities of mine can be chalked up to Chiron in Aries, more or less... * Being subservient * Feeling fundamentally alone and like I don't really belong in a relationship * Overly sensitive to criticism Example: Today at work, I came in through swinging doors and didn't notice that one door got caught on something and was left open. My co-worker said with deadpan humor, "Did you grow up in a barn or something?" I shot back, "HARSH." He started to laugh and asked, "What did you just say?" I said, "You're being harsh." End of conversation. He wasn't really being harsh, I know he was kidding, but I am sensitive to any criticism that would reduce me to nothing immediately, like "You're a barn animal." Most people cannot relate to being a barn animal so it just blows over, it doesn't strike a nerve. But I've seen myself in such a bleak light so often that this actually hits home. People don't get that about me. I seem confident and it doesn't seem to add up. But I go to ground zero very fast. I think there are other terms for this condition and maybe attributable to other things in my chart, but Chiron in Aries probably does not help. Well okay enough of this for tonight, I look at this in a detached, for-research purposes way, but maybe it looks like whining, not sure. Will probably edit later, pls don't quote
|
|
|
Post by 12YearsABlob on Oct 12, 2019 1:12:15 GMT
Hmm, I can see that with Aries chiron.. When you describe it, it almost sounds like what Leo Chiron should be like, because Leo rules the Sun. Since yours is connected to the Sun, that might explain it...
^ It's mostly true for me. Just hurts to talk, period. Lol. Guess that's hard to believe about someone who talks so darn much, but - oh well, if you know you know. And to even get to this point has taken some.
I spoke about it being triggered in synastry in bad ways. But, like lumina says, it can also have a bit of both. Hurting/healing - sides of the same coin. The very first example up there, the friend I was complaining about (sorry, man), also has an uncanny ability to sense what I'm unable to say and protect me from my own silence, so to speak. For instance, he would personally head off people who'd come to dump things on me I wouldn't be able to say no to. Or tell people to shoosh when I was trying to say something, lol.
In synastry, even if there's no aspect, this particular square is helped by people like that - who can hear what I don't say. Sometimes they act as a mouthpiece. I know I'm a big girl, I should be able to do that for myself but it never seems worth the bother. The biggest relief is when people can hear and address the unspoken, like "Thank you for not making me spell that out. Whew, nearly had a heart attack."
Part of the lesson is to not be such a baby, I guess.
Not so much about criticism though, just understanding, or lack thereof. It can also have the reverse effect where I "inflict" that chiron pain on others with my words.
|
|
|
Post by 12YearsABlob on Oct 12, 2019 1:17:05 GMT
Ava , Even if that was a throwaway comment, one wouldn't say that to a coworker. Maybe a friend who's comfortable with that style of humour...:edit: dumb example.. Basically, you wouldn't talk like that with a stranger or acquaintance, that's just rude.
I do think the Chrion conjunct draconic Neptune shows. Well, I was debating about whether I should mention I have draconic Chiron on my sun and tropical Chiron square draco moon/Asc, but there might be something there too.
|
|
|
Post by 12YearsABlob on Oct 12, 2019 1:32:34 GMT
P.S. It says there, under Leo Chiron: "You might even feel guilty for enjoying downtime" Yeeeeep. But I suppose anyone with Virgo in their chart would say the same..
|
|