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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 0:18:24 GMT
PLEASE DONT QUOTE So for a long time now, Placidus system hasn't worked out for me. There's something wrong about it; my placidus chart has a stellium in Aquarius in 10th, a stellium in Capricorn in 9th, moon in 11th, Jupiter in 5th. Albeit I have chiron on IC trine moon almost exact, this chart seems too... well happy and firey. It never matched my experiences and when I work on solar or lunar returns as documented on this forum, they are less accurate than whole house. So for the lat year or so, I have been switching to whole house system. But as also documented on this forum, I have said that as much as I tend to have delays in connecting my emotions, I do not feel my emotional boundaries being merged with the world. The problem with identifying which system works is that my chart has similar themes with each aspects, or at least based on cook book astrology, it is just so hard to figure out is my influx of feelings, of being soaked in my environment a problem with moon-chiron, venus-neptune conjunct almost exact, or just moon in 12th house. We can all claim to feel certain ways based on what we read about certain aspect. And then there are real, objective evidence of what really happened to our lives. I am still relatively young, havent been through my first saturn return yet and when I was figuring out which house system works for me, I didn't have any real life experiences to back it up. I have asked about chart rectification on several forums because somehow my chart still seemed off to me. Now that I am older, I have both my life experiences and those of others around me with similar aspects to analyze. Recently I watched Jewel who uses Equal House and I was not convinced but gave it a try any way. -I still have a 9th stellium albeit with saturn, but jupiter in 4th can show why I have traveled a lot and moved residences. -By this age, it is clear I do not have jupiter in 5th. I do not like parties and absolutely hate hosting parties, I am not really jovial or thrive off Leo-type of admiration. These types of things I did more when I was young because I didn't know what I wanted. -if i am honest with myself, i care a lot about how my friends view me (moon in 11th problem), but it could be my aquarius sun too. I was not completely sold. -I used to attribute my batshit crazy relationships and polarizing presence in social setting as sun-square-pluto, pluto in 7th, but Ive known plenty of ppl with similar placement, even sun in 8th, pluto in 7th and still they do not attract stalkers. Pluto in 7th ppl i know suddenly get married in secret. Plenty pluto-square sun ppl i know have very functional relationships. So this is a *potential explanation for venus in 8th. the key things that make me so certain of my equal house chart: - when I had my pluto transit over my venus, I did not travel or change my world view. I removed myself from all social circles, worked out, and gradually went through a transformation of who I am as well as my health and my value system (venus rules both 1st and 6th, in 8th). The more I read about 8th venus it makes sense too. I almost signed up to work for the CIA (via their scholarship program). My scorpio friend recently said that his scorpio mars bff has nothing on me when it comes to researching and that was surprising. My arts tend to have emotionally volatile theme (which i used to attribute to aries moon but my work is too watery...). Etc... -several instances in my life, I have quit familiar, safe, secure circumstances for emotional fulfilling journey (node in 8th vs in 9th). I do not relate to this perpetual student kinda narrative at all. Saturn on my node was coincidental with me participating in a community doing a high risk sport. -if like Jewel said, midheaven = our authority figure and the authority we want to be and 10th = career/public image, then Saturn conjunct Midheaven in 9th matched the fact that I came from a family with very narrow-minded view that you only matter if you have a decent degree. Transit Saturn in scorpio square my saturn was a period of me struggling with higher education institutions. .. -my solar return in 2018 makes more sense with midheaven in 10th because my actual career went to a different path (even though mc in equal house can be in different houses too) anyway ... give it a try and let me know what you think. I figure since I go around and talk about whole sign so much, i should explain myself so I don't seem wishy washy (another nod to saturn in 9th)
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Post by lumina on Jan 16, 2019 6:15:09 GMT
there is a certain beauty in equal house system, also the fact they do NOT break down at polar regions (and there ARE people living there), as do all other systems, which have ASC and MC at the start of 1st and 10th house. It is also cutting the houses circle into equal parts, like we do it with zodiac signs, too, in a visible way. Though having said that the time based systems do that, too, they are just cutting the time into equal parts, not the space, and they do only look inequal spacewise.
anyway there is a lot that can be said for equal system. Personally I have found matching things in equal things and I have found matching things in Placidud. I switched to Placidus for real many years ago, when I was doing the chart of a then new aquaintance, who was born in Northern Sweden. I was convinced equal house based interpretation would take the cake, esp. with her houses looking so inequal in size (ASC 15 Cancer, IC 14 Leo - come on that looks NUTS).
I didn`t know her at that point really, but while the interpretation I did with equal was not wrong, she was flabbergasted with what I was figuring out with the Placidus system, as I was mentioning some very specific things (not so much in terms of personality as in actual environment, family, job, etc. almost more event-based), I could not have known.
so I thought that was at least interesting.
Personally for all its worth I cannot see myself having Aries in 5th house (as per equal system), but I am open to it, knowing that the ruler Mars is conjunct Neptune in my chart anyway, so things get a little diluted there.
But what I do have to say is, if I were to switch to equal system, I probably would keep Placidian housecusps as sensitive points, as I have found them to be very reactive to conjunctions (exact conjunctions). like when Tr Uranus hits my 5th house cusp as per Placidus, it really hits it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 6:59:13 GMT
lumina there are many ppl sworn by Placidus. So it all makes sense to me
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Post by lumina on Jan 16, 2019 10:18:21 GMT
@theunknown
my planets are in following houses in Placidus and equal: (only listing those that fall into different houses)
Moon: 2nd house - 3rd house Venus: 1st house - 2nd house Jupiter: 3rd house - 4th house Pluto: 10th house - 11th house
I guess I could actually attest to both options. 2nd house for an identity/ feminine planet makes sense, but could be either Moon or Venus I guess. Moon in 3rd house, 3rd house is covered by either Moon or Jupiter in there, either could make sense.
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Post by Ava on Jan 16, 2019 11:07:14 GMT
@theunknown
I admire this ability to think about different charts and one's qualities and experiences, and use astro concepts to match one with the other ("equal suits me best" or "whole house works best.")
I guess I have such a nebulous view of myself that I can't decide things this way; my chart rectification is based on events, synastry, asteroid placements. External things.
If I switch from Placidus to Equal, only two planets move, Uranus (from the 4th into the 3rd) and Venus (from the 5th into the 4th). And again, I can't form an opinion.
3H is the house of siblings. My oldest brother's an Aqua moon, second-oldest brother is an Aqua sun, and he was a great influence in my early years, always picking up broken electronics off the side of the rode and fixing them, playing electric guitars, making a lot of noise and commotion...he's an electrician now. 4H Uranus is also the home life though. So whether Uranus is in my 3H or 4H, siblings were there, and my home life was Uranian. My mother's Uranus is tightly conjunct my SN in Taurus and so, this is where I come from.
4H Venus, whatever, no preference for this or 5H Venus or Venus anywhere at all, because my natal Venus is conjunct Neptune, so it's shapeshifting.
Pls don't quote, just wondering aloud.
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Post by geminiblues on Jan 16, 2019 19:55:07 GMT
For me, the only changes would be to my Saturn Uranus opposition moving from the end of 4-10 to the beginning of 5-11, and sag and Gemini would go from intercepted to the 2-8 cusp. Saturn in the 5th might make sense, but since Chiron is already in the 5th, it probably doesn't need to be. Uranus makes more sense for me where it is now. And I think Taurus on the 8th cusp is reasonable for my personality.
I've not played around enough with Koch... One of these days, maybe...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 20:28:43 GMT
Thanks everyone for replies. I’ll go back and discuss them with you all... just not having the time to be thoughtful just yet
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Post by lumina on Jan 16, 2019 20:38:28 GMT
I guess I have such a nebulous view of myself that I can't decide things this way; my chart rectification is based on events, synastry, asteroid placements. External things. Except for the asteroid things, I could have written the same.
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Post by FruityLlama on Jan 19, 2019 13:36:41 GMT
If I switch to equal houses, everything changes. My sun/moon fall into 10th, Venus in 9th, Saturn in 8th. It does at least push Jupiter fully into the 5th whereas in placidus it straddles the 5th and 6th which is confusing.
I don't know, I prefer my planets being in the 11th but I am not sure whether 11th house matters is where I shine. Then again I'm not sure whether 10th house matters really reflect me either. Planets being in the 11th, with a squares to me moon there help me understand why I attracted the wrong friends early on. My lessons seem to stem from 11th house matters more than 10th.
In equal, Mars moves to my first house. I think I look manly so that might resonate. Chiron is in the 2nd, NN is in 4th whereas in Placidus theyd be in the 4th and 5th houses respectively.
I think placidus Venus and Saturn in 10th suits more to be honest because I had to think very long and hard about what I value in a career, what my limits were, what I was prepared to do. I very much wanted to be able to enjoy it (Venus) as much as possible having learnt from my parents (Saturn). Aries Venus makes me feel like an eternal baby wrt career, Saturn in Pisces conjunct the axis is constantly re organising the boundaries, dissolving them and keeping them out of reach haha! I could understand Venus in 9th though because I love travel, foreign cultures and languages etc. I always wondered why I didn't have more Sag in my chart. Saturn and MC being in the 8th just baffles me though...like, just no. I prefer my placidus chart but I haven't thought properly about how equal resonates with me.
With that in mind, I stick with placidus, but equal houses certainly makes me think. I would have to start all over again with my chart if I were to switch! Its a brand new chart almost!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2019 17:45:50 GMT
FruityLlama do you mind posting your chart or pm me? I’ll get to everybody on Tuesday...
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jan 19, 2019 18:24:42 GMT
^Me too, unable to gather my thoughts on this just yet.
Hopefully, I'll have more to say later...
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Post by FruityLlama on Jan 19, 2019 19:49:07 GMT
@theunknown No problem, I have posted both. Let me know if you prefer this on a pm of course.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2019 20:41:13 GMT
FruityLlama no I was just worried you want to keep it private.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2019 4:28:35 GMT
Ava funny when I was looking at different charts, i remembered this line from a thread we had on Alyssa and Saturn-Neptune Square - like I can't unsee the fact that i spent 5 years hiding under a rock, 3 of which I worked out like a madman (i have no athletic background and by now I can claim I have basic knowledge of physical movement and probably can coach ppl on a basic fitness level) It can be confusing to see your own charts for what they are. Astrology is not a regulated field, people interpret whatever they want to interpret and however they want to. So what they write might or might not reflect real experiences. The SunnySide for example doesn't count a square to nodes as t-square. I mean technically it's a skipped step but I think opposition to skipped step does create a grand cross. So when you count or not count certain things, it does affect how you interpret a chart, and thus consider which one is correct. I personally don't appreciate intercepted house. In terms of your chart, 4th house venus would be someone interested in a more private expression of what they value. 5th is always sunny and showy kinda place. Do you relate to the world by staying at home? Do you enjoy home decors? Where is your jupiter ( i recount you are a sag venus)? When something transit your jupiter, does it affect your 4th housy matters or your 5th house? Same with Uranus in 3rd or 4th. When something transit your 7th, do you start going outward or inward? Is there shakeup at home due to the people you partner with? You don't have to answer these publicly. I'm sure there are many personal experiences you can reflect on. Regarding your mother, is your moon aspecting Uranus, is 4th ruler aspecting Uranus? Is the moon's ruler in 11th or aspecting Uranus? There are a few different ways it can play out. Im a creative person, so for a while I thought Jupiter in 5th, something in 5th, anything in 5th would make sense. My 5th ruler in equal is in 9th, my venus-neptune are in 8th, and uranus the ruler of my midheaven is in 8th. So there are a lot of individuality without the bombastic/sunny/loud nature of the 5th and i relate to that more. But more importantly, how transits played out ... these to me are objective experiences. Feelings in general are subjective and I am equally nebulous towards myself. geminiblues those are many changes and it might be helpful for you to take a more careful look. So first, with the opposition of Saturn-uranus, I am sure you can go back in time when there is a transit causing a grand cross or t-square. Did the transit affect your 10th, 4th matter? What are the rulers of Saturn and Uranus doing? Where do Saturn and uranus rules and when something hit this opposition do these houses get affected and in which way? Do you get a surge of creativity or public lynching (11th can be a lonely place) or you feel like it hit home to the deepest most private part of your life? Regarding 8th ruler, ... same thing. What are Mercury and Venus doing? When something transit your venus do you feel like you are resolving your debt or finance? It might be that your current chart is the most fitting one. I am just curious. FruityLlama from one Chiron on IC, Saturn on MC to another... I just wanna say I feel ya. Now your equal house feels very different. When something hit your saturn, does it make you feel like you are torn between being private and secretive and openly expressive? it seems like a good career choice for Placidus chart is a college professor (philosophy regarding relationships) while the equal house one is a psychologist who undercover others' deeper, more emotional place in private. The equal house has sun and moon in 10th, so very driven, hierarchical, law-abiding identity. Mars in 1st is active. Ruler of 5th in 5th, ruler of 6th is in 5th so you're all about creativity, the act of creating things, creative jobs. Your creativity lets you assert yourself and well as understand how you see yourself (mars in 1st, ruler of mars in 10th). Ruler of Sun-Moon in 9th is extra flighty, happy, experimental. Placidus has venus in 10th, so public image is extra important and somehow related to your relationships, possibly wanting a partner that complements you professionally. Also since venus rules the home, you don't seem to have much of a home life, or your home life is somehow on public view. Ruler of all that scorpio stuff are in 2nd, so your creativity feels a bit ignored (intercepted) but also used to create income or give you a sense of self-worth which then give you more friends (sun-moon in 11th). Also you are emotionally invested in how your friends and circle view you, not just trying to keep it tight and professional like equal. In placidus, your view about emotional transformation, sex and taboo topics affect your relationships and your philosophy/world views. You might not even be able to explain your world view without going in-depth about what happened in the 8th. Your 8th house activities are in a more private space if it's equal house system.
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Post by anela on Jan 25, 2019 6:30:41 GMT
That would put Jupiter in the 6th and Pluto in the 12th for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2019 6:33:37 GMT
anela compared to 5th/11th or 7th/1st?
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Post by geminiblues on Jan 25, 2019 6:33:47 GMT
geminiblues those are many changes and it might be helpful for you to take a more careful look. So first, with the opposition of Saturn-uranus, I am sure you can go back in time when there is a transit causing a grand cross or t-square. Did the transit affect your 10th, 4th matter? What are the rulers of Saturn and Uranus doing? Where do Saturn and uranus rules and when something hit this opposition do these houses get affected and in which way? Do you get a surge of creativity or public lynching (11th can be a lonely place) or you feel like it hit home to the deepest most private part of your life? Regarding 8th ruler, ... same thing. What are Mercury and Venus doing? When something transit your venus do you feel like you are resolving your debt or finance? It might be that your current chart is the most fitting one. I am just curious. @theunknown So, this might be a bit more than I can answer in one go, but I'll give it a start. The Saturn Uranus opposition is a piece of a T square. Saturn 5 Pis sRx opposite Uranus 6 Vir square Mercury 7 Gem and vertex 8 gem. Pluto in the 11th at 11 Vir also connects, though a bit too wide for Saturn in my book. And, 7 sag is a sensitive spot, being the aVx and the missing wheel of the grand cross. Does it affect 10th or 11th? Yes. 4th or 5th? Well, probably both. My ex wife put her Venus there, my daughter puts Uranus there, etc. Uranus is ruled by Mercury, which in Gemini and the 8th is home, final depositor, and high muckedy-muck, except when my moon in Leo/10th, the Apex of its own t square over Neptune Scorpio Rx and Jupiter Taurus gets involved. psyche is lurking in aqua/4th 1° off of exactly opposite moon, so that's a bit if a touchy spot too, but not nearly as much as the aVx. Saturn is of course ruled by the aforementioned Neptune and trine my Asc @0° Scorpio (widely) and Venus 2°can conjunct NN (also Rx). I have 3 water planets, all Rx, and a grand water trine (from Venus standpoint at least. The sat Asc angle is just a bit wide) So... What I'm getting at is that it's awfully difficult to look at one of these things in isolation. You can't touch Saturn without activating a T square or a grand water trine, and it has angles to three major axis... aVx, NN, and Asc, and to both the chart ruler and the sun sign ruler/final depositor, Pluto and Mercury. So, how to look at this? For Saturn, I evaluated on the basis of 4th or 5th house... problems. In the 4th, we'd see problems at home, or with parents by the common explanation, while the 5th might be problems with childhood, or perhaps romance and affairs. Well, Chiron in the 5th... Pain and healing in the house indicated. I have said, even recently, not only am I not happy, I don't know what happy feels like.. That's Chiron in the 5th. Widely square my sun in fact. Saturn in the 4th is... My father spent many of my childhood years working as an over the road trucker. My mother spent most of her adult life working 3rd shift. We moved often through my childhood. The longest we lived in any one town was 3 1/2 years. Don't get me wrong, I never for a moment doubted either of my parents love for me. They had a Mars conjunct Saturn DW with each other, and it fell on my sun and Venus (Dad Mars Mom Saturn my Sun, Dad Saturn Mom Mars my Venus/NN, thus trine my Saturn...). My adult life has had trials revolving around home and career. For one thing, it seemed that I could never have a relationship and a job at the same time. And when I finally did, in my 40's, I ended up losing both in the same year, and my mother (to cancer) to boot. (Saturn return? HAH! Saturn crossing the Asc! That first step is a bitch! Sorry, tangent rant...) Anyway, the 4-10 opposition makes sense in spades. I'm now self employed, rather irregularly (Uranus in 10th). I'm living with, and partially supporting my daughter. Through my adult life, I've often either lived with or had living with me one or the other of my parents. Realities of economics. Nature of an 8th house sun. Anyway, I reserve the right to delete some of the more personal stuff, so if you quote, please do so gently...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2019 6:44:32 GMT
geminiblues I am not going to quote. I see astrology as a tool for self-reflection, a little bit of prediction but really mostly self-development. If based on the way you read chart Placidus fits the most then keep it that way. As I said we all read charts in different ways, which probably contribute to how we see which methods work best for us. Personally i have similarly themed aspects so ... yes, I understand the challenges. Usually I look at how transit affect the signs a planet rules, so Saturn technically rules over aquarius and capricorn, your 8th or 9th (placidus) or your 9th and 10th (equal). So anything touching saturn would affect these houses and I'd say affect the house Aquarius rules more than anything since the opposition includes Uranus. I also don't shame ppl who have problems with their parents because i am a saturnian child with Chiron on IC. I get it. I hope you will at some point find some happiness or inner peace.
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Post by anela on Jan 25, 2019 6:50:32 GMT
anela compared to 5th/11th or 7th/1st? 5th/11th.
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Post by geminiblues on Jan 25, 2019 7:16:40 GMT
@theunknown
Cap is 3rd and Aqua is 4th, either system
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