Post by lumina on Jan 15, 2018 13:48:06 GMT
There is an article on this, which when I first read it touched me very deeply.
"opyright Dena L Moore, Intuitive Evolutionary Astrologer
The following article also appeared in the Australian 2007 Wellbeing Astrology Guide. Read the entire book
So you are sure you've met before and not only that, you feel as though you may have been lovers at least once in a past life, maybe many times over. When your eyes met for the first time this life, you knew he or she was 'the one'. But wait, the lightning can strike even without seeing each other. In the Age of Aquarius, karmic lovers are meeting on the web without even the benefit of a photograph first. Yet the lightning strike is so powerful, so consuming, so intense, you fall and you fall hard. At first you are floating on air, sky high in your romantic bliss, everything is simply perfect. New vistas of the divine open before you.
Then reality strikes. One or both of you are married. You live thousands of kilometres apart. There are children, or perhaps an illness, involved. No matter what the complications, and there are bound to be plenty, you know that somehow you and your lover must be together. You feel it in your soul. It is a deep and painful longing, a longing no one else in the world can understand unless they, too, have met a karmic lover with a Saturn-Neptune connection.
Does it read like a tragedy? Romeo and Juliet? Tristan and Isolde? Guinevere and Lancelot? Chances are all of these couples, if we could erect a synastry chart for them, would have a Saturn and Neptune connection. These relationships are the blissful, yet complicated and painful type of relationship. If there is a distinct Saturn-Neptune connection within the Synastry chart, it is quite likely that the Saturn-Neptune connection also touches the Sun, Moon, Venus, or Mars in both of the partner's individual charts. These relationships appear to offer both heaven and hell to the people involved in them. I consider these types of relationships ‘dangerous loves’, not necessarily violent or abusive relationships, but rather relationships that cause great internal fear. The safe loves are easy to manage and allow a person to work freely and go about their business. The dangerous loves are consuming and passionate, yet frightening. The dangerous loves are often relationships with heavy karma, and the very essence of the Saturn-Neptune connection is one that suggests that the two people have come together to heal and evolve as individuals.
If you are working on a synastry chart and you find this connection look for the deeper ties to the personal planets. By noting and examining the ties to the personal planets, you can obtain some idea of how the current relationship is manifesting for each individual and how they can approach the healing that needs to take place in the current life. The lovers meet again to clear negative karma and to rekindle their love, however briefly the actual relationship may last. If a person finds this passionate love in the current life but runs from it, he or she is running from their own personal evolution. We can learn a great deal from dangerous relationships. When that special love comes upon us and we indulge in it for a brief time and then choose to escape because the fear is too strong, then we are choosing to turn our back on love. Avoiding these heavy karmic Saturn-Neptune relationships is akin to avoiding life itself. If we avoid love and strangle it within our hearts and souls, not allowing it to blossom and grow, then we will face the same person again in the future under a similar, or perhaps even more complicated, situation.
Working Together
The Saturn-Neptune connection will not resolve itself on its own, both souls must be willing to work hard to heal together. To confront the 'danger' takes a very evolved soul and often I see one soul who is ready to deal with the karma and rekindle the relationship yet the other soul is not ready. This can be unbearably painful for the person who is ready to tackle the work. I should mention here that even if the relationship ends quickly, the two lovers will often continue to long for each other no matter who they are with or how far apart they are. That is how strong and binding this aspect is within a relationship.
As you continue to work with a Synastry chart containing this configuration, look at the house placements of Saturn and Neptune. This will give some clue as to which area of life brought tragedy in the past. Ask yourself, why were these two souls ripped apart so abruptly? In many cases, one of the partners died a dramatic, sudden death, especially if the 8th house is directly involved. Often their very love for each other was their undoing, and the step towards their own destruction in the past. No wonder that these loves feel so dangerous and frightening!
So how does the energy of the Saturn-Neptune connection manifest for the two people currently entangled in such a relationship? So much depends on other factors in their charts and their current circumstances. If they are married to someone else, should they divorce? If they live far apart, should they relocate? These are tough decisions and it could take years of dedication to one another to make happen. Often, one partner is terrified of the other after the initial blissful honeymoon (Neptune) phase. When the reality (Saturn) of the situation strikes this partner, his or her emotions may become unbearable and he/she must close down emotionally out of self-protection. The partner cannot see immediate results emerging out of the connection because it seems so complicated and he/she isn’t sure that they are willing to walk through the fires in order to reach the heavenly love this aspect promises.
The frightened, less evolved partner may even sever the ties. The person willing to break the connection is often the partner who was left behind, who lost his or her only love because this person may have been drastically punished, forced to marry another, or he/she may have taken an oath to never love again. A deep entrenched wound is hindering the growth of this soul. While this soul is hiding and running away from his or her karmic lover, there can be no healing. The scorned lover (the lover who died or was ruined in the past) is once again hurt, grows desolate, and may even give up on living if he or she is not very spiritual. How can something so wonderful, so beautiful and divine come to such an abrupt halt? Why doesn't he or she call? Why the disappearing act? This wounded soul longs to experience the blissful aspects of the relationship and despite the challenging reality of the situation, this soul feels that the end result is well worth the torturous journey that must be taken to get there. A stalemate (Saturn) is reached between the partners, and if Neptune is the weaker planet in the Synastry and in the individual charts, it is likely that there will be no resolution in the current incarnation. However, if Neptune is stronger than Saturn in the Synastry, it is possible that the Neptunian energy can diffuse and permeate Saturn to the point where healing can begin to take place. In this situation, the couple can work together to form a more solid relationship built on spiritual growth, music, healing the self as well as others, inspiring the human race, compassion, and any other activity that grounds (Saturn) the sublime (Neptune) on the earthly plane.
Karmic astrology can help lovers understand the push-pull effect of their karmic relationships. It may not end the pain, it may not sweep away the hollow emptiness left when one karmic lover suddenly deserts the other, but it can help transform the bitterness left bobbing in the wake of abandonment into something much more bittersweet, that of spiritual understanding and acceptance.
Important Aspects
The opposition is the most prominent Saturn-Neptune connection. Of course a person could have this contact with many people of about the same age, so it is necessary to note the houses and the inner planet contacts that Saturn and Neptune make as well. Saturn or Neptune is usually in a 'karmic' house: 1st, 4th, 8th, 10th, 12th. Occasionally it may be found that the Sun, Moon, Venus, or Mars is in a karmic house and in a close configuration with the Saturn/Neptune connection. Use an orb under 3 degrees for the peripheral karmic house contact if neither Saturn or Neptune is in one of the above houses. If either Saturn or Neptune is in a karmic house, I would consider aspects with an orb as wide as 10 or even up to 12 degrees, depending on the other planets involved. The contact to the inner planets can be major or 'minor' challenging contacts, including the conjunction, square, semisquare, and sesiquadrate. The sextile and semisextile should be considered as well. The more fluent trine can be significant, especially if in a karmic house but it will usually indicate an easier relationship rather than a desperate loss. Follow your intuition and trust your own judgment when working with the Saturn-Neptune connection.
The square between Saturn-Neptune in the Synastry chart can indicate a karmic lover relationship, but the lovers have not usually lost one another through their love, that is, their relationship didn't cause or contribute to the death of one or both partners as can be the case with the Saturn-Neptune opposition in a karmic house touching a planet or light in both individual nativities. The square more often indicates that there were difficult circumstances in the past that the two individuals failed to handle appropriately and they will once again face a similar situation together. Their incompetence may have cost lives, particularly if they were involved in the medical profession or were military leaders. This configuration can appear when both partners need to work toward a goal that will benefit mankind. It can become a driving force behind a team dedicated to helping others. The square will often be strong enough to hold the two people together if they are able to focus the energy outside the relationship rather than within it. The fear that lingers so deeply with the opposition could manifest within the relationship with the Saturn-Neptune square, but it isn’t likely to be as strong nor focused within the relationship. For instance, meeting the other person could bring up unknown fears and insecurities within each individual, but they will not be fearful of the other person. Instead, they may come to lean on the other to offer support and help them overcome the new fears as they develop. Fear of professional success or health maladies may be brought to the forefront through the connection. For instance, one partner may be scared to take a risk in order to make more money or gain prestige in his or her profession while the other partner develops allergies or begins to worry excessively about cancer or another terrible disease.
The trine is typically easier and while it may still indicate a loss of one another through a love relationship, it usually shows a loss that was natural, either through disease or simply old age. This Saturn-Neptune connection will not be as complicated, draining, or as important as one with an opposition or square. They will likely feel that sense of knowing one another on a deep level quite immediately, but the fear will not be there to undermine the potential of a long-term relationship. I wouldn’t consider a Saturn-Neptune trine in the Synastry chart as an indicator of a dangerous love. Keep in mind that the dangerous loves will bring greater challenges and offer a more significant opportunity for soul growth and healing at the same time. A Saturn-Neptune trine in the Synastry may not be powerful enough to bring a couple together, so if it is there, be sure to look at the other contacts between the charts to determine how the trine could help or hinder the relationship.
Working with Synastry can offer amazing insights into Saturn-Neptune relationships and while explaining the difficulties inherent in these relationships can bring pain, especially if you must tell a person that Saturn is stronger and that the relationship may not manifest in the current incarnation, it can also bring about understanding and help the person who is hoping for a reconciliation to learn to let go and move forward. The bliss that seems to be promised by the Saturn-Neptune connection in a relationship is not guaranteed, indeed, the lessons learned by engaging with a person who connects to you in this manner may be more important in the long run than experiencing the heaven of being in his or her arms.
You may also be interested in Love & the Saturn Retrograde, Saturn in Relationship, Fear of Venus in the Modern World, Mercury, Karma, & Retrogrades, Connections...Using astrology to create deeper intimacy & understanding in relationships, Pallas Athene in the Natal Chart - Unlocking Doors to our Future and Bite the Poisoned Apple - The Dark Side of Moon & Venus in Aspect NEW! Neptune: The Development of an enigma"
www.throughnightsfire.com/SaturnNeptuneconnections.html
Interestingly I just met an individual whose Saturn is heavily intervowen into my chart, including my Neptune: actually his Saturn:
-trines my Venus
- square my Mars
- opposes my Jupiter
- squares my Neptune
- squares my ASC
- squares my NN
(as you can see pretty challenging aspects, save for the trine to my Venus, which is actually a DW).
my Neptune-NN
squares his Venus
(squares his Saturn)
Anyway, what I wanted to ask if, how do you, who have a Saturn-Neptune-aspect in synastry, experience that relation?
"opyright Dena L Moore, Intuitive Evolutionary Astrologer
The following article also appeared in the Australian 2007 Wellbeing Astrology Guide. Read the entire book
So you are sure you've met before and not only that, you feel as though you may have been lovers at least once in a past life, maybe many times over. When your eyes met for the first time this life, you knew he or she was 'the one'. But wait, the lightning can strike even without seeing each other. In the Age of Aquarius, karmic lovers are meeting on the web without even the benefit of a photograph first. Yet the lightning strike is so powerful, so consuming, so intense, you fall and you fall hard. At first you are floating on air, sky high in your romantic bliss, everything is simply perfect. New vistas of the divine open before you.
Then reality strikes. One or both of you are married. You live thousands of kilometres apart. There are children, or perhaps an illness, involved. No matter what the complications, and there are bound to be plenty, you know that somehow you and your lover must be together. You feel it in your soul. It is a deep and painful longing, a longing no one else in the world can understand unless they, too, have met a karmic lover with a Saturn-Neptune connection.
Does it read like a tragedy? Romeo and Juliet? Tristan and Isolde? Guinevere and Lancelot? Chances are all of these couples, if we could erect a synastry chart for them, would have a Saturn and Neptune connection. These relationships are the blissful, yet complicated and painful type of relationship. If there is a distinct Saturn-Neptune connection within the Synastry chart, it is quite likely that the Saturn-Neptune connection also touches the Sun, Moon, Venus, or Mars in both of the partner's individual charts. These relationships appear to offer both heaven and hell to the people involved in them. I consider these types of relationships ‘dangerous loves’, not necessarily violent or abusive relationships, but rather relationships that cause great internal fear. The safe loves are easy to manage and allow a person to work freely and go about their business. The dangerous loves are consuming and passionate, yet frightening. The dangerous loves are often relationships with heavy karma, and the very essence of the Saturn-Neptune connection is one that suggests that the two people have come together to heal and evolve as individuals.
If you are working on a synastry chart and you find this connection look for the deeper ties to the personal planets. By noting and examining the ties to the personal planets, you can obtain some idea of how the current relationship is manifesting for each individual and how they can approach the healing that needs to take place in the current life. The lovers meet again to clear negative karma and to rekindle their love, however briefly the actual relationship may last. If a person finds this passionate love in the current life but runs from it, he or she is running from their own personal evolution. We can learn a great deal from dangerous relationships. When that special love comes upon us and we indulge in it for a brief time and then choose to escape because the fear is too strong, then we are choosing to turn our back on love. Avoiding these heavy karmic Saturn-Neptune relationships is akin to avoiding life itself. If we avoid love and strangle it within our hearts and souls, not allowing it to blossom and grow, then we will face the same person again in the future under a similar, or perhaps even more complicated, situation.
Working Together
The Saturn-Neptune connection will not resolve itself on its own, both souls must be willing to work hard to heal together. To confront the 'danger' takes a very evolved soul and often I see one soul who is ready to deal with the karma and rekindle the relationship yet the other soul is not ready. This can be unbearably painful for the person who is ready to tackle the work. I should mention here that even if the relationship ends quickly, the two lovers will often continue to long for each other no matter who they are with or how far apart they are. That is how strong and binding this aspect is within a relationship.
As you continue to work with a Synastry chart containing this configuration, look at the house placements of Saturn and Neptune. This will give some clue as to which area of life brought tragedy in the past. Ask yourself, why were these two souls ripped apart so abruptly? In many cases, one of the partners died a dramatic, sudden death, especially if the 8th house is directly involved. Often their very love for each other was their undoing, and the step towards their own destruction in the past. No wonder that these loves feel so dangerous and frightening!
So how does the energy of the Saturn-Neptune connection manifest for the two people currently entangled in such a relationship? So much depends on other factors in their charts and their current circumstances. If they are married to someone else, should they divorce? If they live far apart, should they relocate? These are tough decisions and it could take years of dedication to one another to make happen. Often, one partner is terrified of the other after the initial blissful honeymoon (Neptune) phase. When the reality (Saturn) of the situation strikes this partner, his or her emotions may become unbearable and he/she must close down emotionally out of self-protection. The partner cannot see immediate results emerging out of the connection because it seems so complicated and he/she isn’t sure that they are willing to walk through the fires in order to reach the heavenly love this aspect promises.
The frightened, less evolved partner may even sever the ties. The person willing to break the connection is often the partner who was left behind, who lost his or her only love because this person may have been drastically punished, forced to marry another, or he/she may have taken an oath to never love again. A deep entrenched wound is hindering the growth of this soul. While this soul is hiding and running away from his or her karmic lover, there can be no healing. The scorned lover (the lover who died or was ruined in the past) is once again hurt, grows desolate, and may even give up on living if he or she is not very spiritual. How can something so wonderful, so beautiful and divine come to such an abrupt halt? Why doesn't he or she call? Why the disappearing act? This wounded soul longs to experience the blissful aspects of the relationship and despite the challenging reality of the situation, this soul feels that the end result is well worth the torturous journey that must be taken to get there. A stalemate (Saturn) is reached between the partners, and if Neptune is the weaker planet in the Synastry and in the individual charts, it is likely that there will be no resolution in the current incarnation. However, if Neptune is stronger than Saturn in the Synastry, it is possible that the Neptunian energy can diffuse and permeate Saturn to the point where healing can begin to take place. In this situation, the couple can work together to form a more solid relationship built on spiritual growth, music, healing the self as well as others, inspiring the human race, compassion, and any other activity that grounds (Saturn) the sublime (Neptune) on the earthly plane.
Karmic astrology can help lovers understand the push-pull effect of their karmic relationships. It may not end the pain, it may not sweep away the hollow emptiness left when one karmic lover suddenly deserts the other, but it can help transform the bitterness left bobbing in the wake of abandonment into something much more bittersweet, that of spiritual understanding and acceptance.
Important Aspects
The opposition is the most prominent Saturn-Neptune connection. Of course a person could have this contact with many people of about the same age, so it is necessary to note the houses and the inner planet contacts that Saturn and Neptune make as well. Saturn or Neptune is usually in a 'karmic' house: 1st, 4th, 8th, 10th, 12th. Occasionally it may be found that the Sun, Moon, Venus, or Mars is in a karmic house and in a close configuration with the Saturn/Neptune connection. Use an orb under 3 degrees for the peripheral karmic house contact if neither Saturn or Neptune is in one of the above houses. If either Saturn or Neptune is in a karmic house, I would consider aspects with an orb as wide as 10 or even up to 12 degrees, depending on the other planets involved. The contact to the inner planets can be major or 'minor' challenging contacts, including the conjunction, square, semisquare, and sesiquadrate. The sextile and semisextile should be considered as well. The more fluent trine can be significant, especially if in a karmic house but it will usually indicate an easier relationship rather than a desperate loss. Follow your intuition and trust your own judgment when working with the Saturn-Neptune connection.
The square between Saturn-Neptune in the Synastry chart can indicate a karmic lover relationship, but the lovers have not usually lost one another through their love, that is, their relationship didn't cause or contribute to the death of one or both partners as can be the case with the Saturn-Neptune opposition in a karmic house touching a planet or light in both individual nativities. The square more often indicates that there were difficult circumstances in the past that the two individuals failed to handle appropriately and they will once again face a similar situation together. Their incompetence may have cost lives, particularly if they were involved in the medical profession or were military leaders. This configuration can appear when both partners need to work toward a goal that will benefit mankind. It can become a driving force behind a team dedicated to helping others. The square will often be strong enough to hold the two people together if they are able to focus the energy outside the relationship rather than within it. The fear that lingers so deeply with the opposition could manifest within the relationship with the Saturn-Neptune square, but it isn’t likely to be as strong nor focused within the relationship. For instance, meeting the other person could bring up unknown fears and insecurities within each individual, but they will not be fearful of the other person. Instead, they may come to lean on the other to offer support and help them overcome the new fears as they develop. Fear of professional success or health maladies may be brought to the forefront through the connection. For instance, one partner may be scared to take a risk in order to make more money or gain prestige in his or her profession while the other partner develops allergies or begins to worry excessively about cancer or another terrible disease.
The trine is typically easier and while it may still indicate a loss of one another through a love relationship, it usually shows a loss that was natural, either through disease or simply old age. This Saturn-Neptune connection will not be as complicated, draining, or as important as one with an opposition or square. They will likely feel that sense of knowing one another on a deep level quite immediately, but the fear will not be there to undermine the potential of a long-term relationship. I wouldn’t consider a Saturn-Neptune trine in the Synastry chart as an indicator of a dangerous love. Keep in mind that the dangerous loves will bring greater challenges and offer a more significant opportunity for soul growth and healing at the same time. A Saturn-Neptune trine in the Synastry may not be powerful enough to bring a couple together, so if it is there, be sure to look at the other contacts between the charts to determine how the trine could help or hinder the relationship.
Working with Synastry can offer amazing insights into Saturn-Neptune relationships and while explaining the difficulties inherent in these relationships can bring pain, especially if you must tell a person that Saturn is stronger and that the relationship may not manifest in the current incarnation, it can also bring about understanding and help the person who is hoping for a reconciliation to learn to let go and move forward. The bliss that seems to be promised by the Saturn-Neptune connection in a relationship is not guaranteed, indeed, the lessons learned by engaging with a person who connects to you in this manner may be more important in the long run than experiencing the heaven of being in his or her arms.
You may also be interested in Love & the Saturn Retrograde, Saturn in Relationship, Fear of Venus in the Modern World, Mercury, Karma, & Retrogrades, Connections...Using astrology to create deeper intimacy & understanding in relationships, Pallas Athene in the Natal Chart - Unlocking Doors to our Future and Bite the Poisoned Apple - The Dark Side of Moon & Venus in Aspect NEW! Neptune: The Development of an enigma"
www.throughnightsfire.com/SaturnNeptuneconnections.html
Interestingly I just met an individual whose Saturn is heavily intervowen into my chart, including my Neptune: actually his Saturn:
-trines my Venus
- square my Mars
- opposes my Jupiter
- squares my Neptune
- squares my ASC
- squares my NN
(as you can see pretty challenging aspects, save for the trine to my Venus, which is actually a DW).
my Neptune-NN
squares his Venus
(squares his Saturn)
Anyway, what I wanted to ask if, how do you, who have a Saturn-Neptune-aspect in synastry, experience that relation?
