Post by lumina on Jan 12, 2018 10:47:39 GMT
Well this is going to be long. lol
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I was getting intrigued with these historical figures, and I have written some biographical things elsewhere here on the forum, but thought it would be interesting to check their horoscopes.
There is a problem with the "dating" of their births though. Anna is said to have been born on 5th july 1532, but some sources also mention the year 1530. Well apparently it was also said she was born on the friday after a certain religious day, and only the 5th july 1532 fell onto a friday; that and the majority of sources use that birth date for her anyway.
As for Johannes Weyer (or: Wier, Weir), he was said to have been born on 24th february 1515 OR 1516, but well in this instance I just followed my intuition that sais there is no other date possible but 1515. He was also said to have died on 24th february, which I find a bit suspicious, but anyway.
So the birthdates are educated guesses in best case I guess, which makes astrological work a bit difficult, and we should keep that in mind. However after checking their horoscopes and in particular their interaction with each other and what little biographical evidence we have, I am pretty certain those are the right dates. Of course I also just "know", but that is hardly a convincing argument.
BTW these dates are of course after the Julian calendar, as the Gregorian one was only introduced after 1582 or so I think.
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biographically:
Anna of Tecklenburg was a countess and heir (because she was the only child) to the counties of Tecklenburg, Rheda and Wevelinghoven.
She was being married for "confessional and territorial reason" to a young count, younger than her, who was heir to two other counties. The marriage was made also to protect their respective territories against some bishops, who had an eye on those counties. For that reason Anna`s husband was accepting the protestant confession (Anna was Lutherian), while he himself was catholic (and yes HUGE deal back then
).
After a few relatively harmonious (I doubt though these were happy years, event hough some historians speak of the husband`s "love that then turned to hate", but that is typical historian`s romanticism and overdramatization; there was never any love to speak of, I am sure. ) years and the birth of their two children, Anna`s father died, and that was when her husband turned against her. He wanted to have rulership over HER counties as well, but interestingly she refused him (I did not even know that was possible for a woman in that century!) and insisted on keeping posession of her counties.
Well he did not take it too well, and imprisoned her in the tower of her own castle (in Tecklenburg) to make her yield to his wishes and of coruse also keeping her apart from her little children.
Anyway, some of the aristocrats in the neighbourhood did not take this behavious too well, and in particular the count of Oldenburg came and forced that spineless wimp of a husband (nope, not taking this personal AT ALL. lol) to release his wife and swear to never "insult" her like that again. They also accused him of marital infidelity, and as a whole he faced severe opposition in the other countie`s leaders around, so he released Anna, and they were making some sort of legal contract or agreement. however that chapter ended just one and a half years later, when the husband died of syphilis at the age of 26.
Anna however took over the rulership for her son, who was not of age yet. She also took care that he was getting the best possible education.
Anyway that was the more interesting chapter in her life I think. As a leader she was very different from her father and husband and pretty most male leaders around,w ho were going to war over any small disagreement. She refused to do so, and rather invested her efforts in establishing diplomatic connections to others and was apparently very successful in maintaining peace in her counties.
Another thing was that she was very progressively thinking and tolerant and open towards others it seems. At least she was forming a strong protection against any witchhunts. Well at that time Germany was crazy with hunting and burning witches (and yes in Germany they were actually being burned instead of being hanged).
I am not sure if she was already vehemently protective of these women, or if her defensity against the witchhunts was really influenced and created by her association with Johann Weyer. Personally I think she was already disinclined to allow such nonsense and brutality, but through their association she strengthened that and put it into action.
Johann Weyer was the FIRST man in Europe to speak and write (lots!) against witchhunts, and actually insisting that those accused women (mostly) were just poor (older) women, who were either too abrasive in language or suffering from sicknesses like melancholia and who needed medical treatment and support of their soul / mind rather than being tortured and murdered.
He himself was a pretty outspoken man, and especially in catholic regions a not so welcome person.
It seems there is evidence anna was among the first people reading his book against the witchhunt-madness.
However he was also a skilled doctor (being doctor to some king I think, too) and when she became sick, he was called to her court and apparently able to heal her.
Anna herself was very interested in medicine, and according to him a skilled healer herself (and an intelligent and insightful political leader) and actually had built an apothecary in her castle (which was not usual back then, in fact she might have been the first leader to do so).
Anyway the two of them apparently had a “meeting of minds” and formed a very close friendship from there on that lasted until her death, and he spent most of his time on her castle in Tecklenburg (I wonder if his wife was present, too; but probably so, he seems to have an admiration for his wife, too, especially for her rational approach to that witchcraft thing as well; well he did not have any children with that, second, wife, which is sort of strange for this century).
But well while he survived Anna about a few years, he himself died while being on a visit to Tecklenburg, so I think he will have stayed in contact to Anna`s son, who was then the count of course. Well if he had been staying for years on that castle, he might have had a bit of a family-connection to them I guess.
Anyway for that time Tecklenburg was pretty much the only county in Germany that was having NO witchhunts and – trials, too, and no one was being sentenced to death (at least not because they were supposedly witches).
So these are the key-things I think should show up in the horoscopes.
° marital difficulties for Anna
° a nurturing, motherly trait in her as well (apparently she really cared about her two children)
° a strong mind and will, and independent thinking, inclined to embrace the New and progressive and liberal
° capable of long lasting relationships/friendships, possibly with an emphasis of shared concepts about life
° medical interest and skills / even healing skills
° probably not very vain; there do no pictures/ drawings exist of her, which is unusual, as most rulers liked to make themselves eternal through being drawn; we do not know why those do not exist of her, but seeing that she was the countess, probably she simply did not want to be painted.
And for Johann
° contempt for superstitions and how authorities were abusing their powers and manipulate people into false thinking
° extraordinary insight and compassion into women (I mean, they did not even believe back then that women had a soul! So he was really progressive)
° progressive thinking
° being quite frank and outspoken and daring to voice uncomfortable truths/ ideas
° admiration of rational and independent women
° protectiveness
° great medical skills (and success with those)
° connected to royalty, though not being royalty himself
° both must have been pretty courageous (they basically stood against what was generally accepted and taught by the –catholic- church) and also well respected, as no one was really trying to convert them otherwise
° both were healers, medically versed, apparently sharing ideas about how a county should be ruled and people be treated
° both showed interesting empathy to the "simple crowd"
As for their relationship, what we know is that they had a long lasting friendship, and that he spoke full of admiration of her in a very wide sense (encompassing her whole personality, not just one or the other area) after her death, and I think that must have been mutual.
--------------------------------------------
I was getting intrigued with these historical figures, and I have written some biographical things elsewhere here on the forum, but thought it would be interesting to check their horoscopes.
There is a problem with the "dating" of their births though. Anna is said to have been born on 5th july 1532, but some sources also mention the year 1530. Well apparently it was also said she was born on the friday after a certain religious day, and only the 5th july 1532 fell onto a friday; that and the majority of sources use that birth date for her anyway.
As for Johannes Weyer (or: Wier, Weir), he was said to have been born on 24th february 1515 OR 1516, but well in this instance I just followed my intuition that sais there is no other date possible but 1515. He was also said to have died on 24th february, which I find a bit suspicious, but anyway.
So the birthdates are educated guesses in best case I guess, which makes astrological work a bit difficult, and we should keep that in mind. However after checking their horoscopes and in particular their interaction with each other and what little biographical evidence we have, I am pretty certain those are the right dates. Of course I also just "know", but that is hardly a convincing argument.
BTW these dates are of course after the Julian calendar, as the Gregorian one was only introduced after 1582 or so I think.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
biographically:
Anna of Tecklenburg was a countess and heir (because she was the only child) to the counties of Tecklenburg, Rheda and Wevelinghoven.
She was being married for "confessional and territorial reason" to a young count, younger than her, who was heir to two other counties. The marriage was made also to protect their respective territories against some bishops, who had an eye on those counties. For that reason Anna`s husband was accepting the protestant confession (Anna was Lutherian), while he himself was catholic (and yes HUGE deal back then
). After a few relatively harmonious (I doubt though these were happy years, event hough some historians speak of the husband`s "love that then turned to hate", but that is typical historian`s romanticism and overdramatization; there was never any love to speak of, I am sure. ) years and the birth of their two children, Anna`s father died, and that was when her husband turned against her. He wanted to have rulership over HER counties as well, but interestingly she refused him (I did not even know that was possible for a woman in that century!) and insisted on keeping posession of her counties.
Well he did not take it too well, and imprisoned her in the tower of her own castle (in Tecklenburg) to make her yield to his wishes and of coruse also keeping her apart from her little children.
Anyway, some of the aristocrats in the neighbourhood did not take this behavious too well, and in particular the count of Oldenburg came and forced that spineless wimp of a husband (nope, not taking this personal AT ALL. lol) to release his wife and swear to never "insult" her like that again. They also accused him of marital infidelity, and as a whole he faced severe opposition in the other countie`s leaders around, so he released Anna, and they were making some sort of legal contract or agreement. however that chapter ended just one and a half years later, when the husband died of syphilis at the age of 26.
Anna however took over the rulership for her son, who was not of age yet. She also took care that he was getting the best possible education.
Anyway that was the more interesting chapter in her life I think. As a leader she was very different from her father and husband and pretty most male leaders around,w ho were going to war over any small disagreement. She refused to do so, and rather invested her efforts in establishing diplomatic connections to others and was apparently very successful in maintaining peace in her counties.
Another thing was that she was very progressively thinking and tolerant and open towards others it seems. At least she was forming a strong protection against any witchhunts. Well at that time Germany was crazy with hunting and burning witches (and yes in Germany they were actually being burned instead of being hanged).
I am not sure if she was already vehemently protective of these women, or if her defensity against the witchhunts was really influenced and created by her association with Johann Weyer. Personally I think she was already disinclined to allow such nonsense and brutality, but through their association she strengthened that and put it into action.
Johann Weyer was the FIRST man in Europe to speak and write (lots!) against witchhunts, and actually insisting that those accused women (mostly) were just poor (older) women, who were either too abrasive in language or suffering from sicknesses like melancholia and who needed medical treatment and support of their soul / mind rather than being tortured and murdered.
He himself was a pretty outspoken man, and especially in catholic regions a not so welcome person.
It seems there is evidence anna was among the first people reading his book against the witchhunt-madness.
However he was also a skilled doctor (being doctor to some king I think, too) and when she became sick, he was called to her court and apparently able to heal her.
Anna herself was very interested in medicine, and according to him a skilled healer herself (and an intelligent and insightful political leader) and actually had built an apothecary in her castle (which was not usual back then, in fact she might have been the first leader to do so).
Anyway the two of them apparently had a “meeting of minds” and formed a very close friendship from there on that lasted until her death, and he spent most of his time on her castle in Tecklenburg (I wonder if his wife was present, too; but probably so, he seems to have an admiration for his wife, too, especially for her rational approach to that witchcraft thing as well; well he did not have any children with that, second, wife, which is sort of strange for this century).
But well while he survived Anna about a few years, he himself died while being on a visit to Tecklenburg, so I think he will have stayed in contact to Anna`s son, who was then the count of course. Well if he had been staying for years on that castle, he might have had a bit of a family-connection to them I guess.
Anyway for that time Tecklenburg was pretty much the only county in Germany that was having NO witchhunts and – trials, too, and no one was being sentenced to death (at least not because they were supposedly witches).
So these are the key-things I think should show up in the horoscopes.
° marital difficulties for Anna
° a nurturing, motherly trait in her as well (apparently she really cared about her two children)
° a strong mind and will, and independent thinking, inclined to embrace the New and progressive and liberal
° capable of long lasting relationships/friendships, possibly with an emphasis of shared concepts about life
° medical interest and skills / even healing skills
° probably not very vain; there do no pictures/ drawings exist of her, which is unusual, as most rulers liked to make themselves eternal through being drawn; we do not know why those do not exist of her, but seeing that she was the countess, probably she simply did not want to be painted.
And for Johann
° contempt for superstitions and how authorities were abusing their powers and manipulate people into false thinking
° extraordinary insight and compassion into women (I mean, they did not even believe back then that women had a soul! So he was really progressive)
° progressive thinking
° being quite frank and outspoken and daring to voice uncomfortable truths/ ideas
° admiration of rational and independent women
° protectiveness
° great medical skills (and success with those)
° connected to royalty, though not being royalty himself
° both must have been pretty courageous (they basically stood against what was generally accepted and taught by the –catholic- church) and also well respected, as no one was really trying to convert them otherwise
° both were healers, medically versed, apparently sharing ideas about how a county should be ruled and people be treated
° both showed interesting empathy to the "simple crowd"
As for their relationship, what we know is that they had a long lasting friendship, and that he spoke full of admiration of her in a very wide sense (encompassing her whole personality, not just one or the other area) after her death, and I think that must have been mutual.
