Mind traps of Mercury-Mars

[Ava]

I feel that Mercury-Mars people can be held back when we need to hammer down our convictions before we know how to move; this is especially true of the hard aspects.

We can overthink something to death..."paralysis by over-analysis"...or, conversely, Mercury can get overheated by Mars, pushed outside of reason into a reactionary zone, and we move prematurely, without all the analysis. It can get to be a stop-start pattern, lacking fluidity. We may be extra graceful in communication, in an effort to make the most of whatever we say, and to grease the wheels of those parts of our lives whose success is contingent upon clear thinking. And yet, our mechanisms still backfire occasionally, leading to frustration that we cannot simply decide on a course of action and proceed with confidence that we'll attain good results. 

In the pursuit of a life where thought and action dovetail perfectly:

* Mercury can make excuses for Mars..."I can't because..."
* Mercury can over-assign tasks to Mars, overwhelming it: "If you're going to do it, do the f*ck out of it."
* Or this may just be reciprocal: Mars can capture Mercury, commandeering too much of its energy, so that Mercury is excessively thinking of Mars topics, without enough independence and spare energy for higher modes of thinking.    

I'm putting myself in this category because my draconic Mercury is almost exactly conjunct my tropical Mars in Gemini, and lately I've been thinking of my own mental ruts, how they happen, and how to redesign my patterns. 

This forum's dead lately, but why not invite discussion anyway? Nothing to lose.

[lumina]

Ava

sounds sound to me. To be honest though the only ones I can think of with these aspects are my best friend and P. 
My best friend has Mercury conjunct Mars in Libra, but also conjunct Venus and Pluto. 
P has Mercury in Sag squaring his Mars-Jupiter-conjunction in Virgo. 

My friend is prone to overthink things, and will bite back comments most of the time and only say things with much deliberation, especially if critical, to not alientate others (well if she speaks her mind, people are sometimes taken aback, because of the sharpness of it.   ). 


P tends to stumble across his own tongue at times (I am sure you cannot say that in English. lol) and is prone to say too much if he has started talking (including things he should not say aloud, especially in terms of certain contracts and to fans   ). f
On the other hand I decidedly get the feeling that he is also NOT saying a lot of things. lol Or is that just in relation to me?
I just been thinking of that conversation we`ve had in march, where he pretty much stopped talking mid-sentence and very quickly changed topic. 

And then again judging from how he is on stage, in his semi-official concerts, he can be quite vulgar. lol The master of bad jokes. I mean seriously bad jokes, so bad that they are somehow endearing again. Usually sexualized. Well what can one say? Boys! lol

some of these just seem to slip out without him really having control over what he utters. 


Also in more serious contexts, he is friendly, but he`s not "nice" usually. More to the honest side, which can be a bit blunt sometimes. However he is smart enough to know that this is not always a good thing if you want to get a job or not alienate fans who are paying to see you. So he might oftentimes NOT say those things he really thinks, until it is enough and he explodes like he did some months ago, remember? 

So basically I think you are right. lol

[Ava]

lumina

"My friend is prone to overthink things, and will bite back comments most of the time and only say things with much deliberation, especially if critical, to not alientate others (well if she speaks her mind, people are sometimes taken aback, because of the sharpness of it. )."

H was like that...the least critical Virgo I ever met.

"On the other hand I decidedly get the feeling that he is also NOT saying a lot of things. lol Or is that just in relation to me?"

Not sure! My friend with Mercury square Mars tells me how she censors herself, and I don't understand some of her choices, as I would not make the same choices. (Her Mars conjunct mine in Gemini.)

My husband has Mercury conjunct Mars, but Mercury is in closer conjunction with Pluto. He does exhibit some of the tendencies I was trying to describe in my OP. He feels like he has to do everything himself (Mars disposited by the sun) which isn't the best way to live, in some situations: doing it himself may not be the cheapest, most effective or satisfying way, but he's bound by his own interest in learning to do everything (Mercury-Mars), sometimes at the expense of seeing the bigger picture and moving towards that instead (Virgo Mercury though).

I think I'm not really hitting the mark in capturing what I see in Mercury-Mars though, I'm distracted at the moment. Plus I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing anyone. If anything, I usually see tons of potential in these placements and simply marvel if they aren't going even further in their lives.

[LeeLoo]

I have my Mars Pluto Mercury stellium in Libra 8th, starting at 0 (Mars) and ending at Mercury(11) with Pluto just on mdp (6). It's not technically a pure Mercury/Mars conj to talk about, since Pluto there on the mdp weighs heavily, as it should. On the other hand, the configuration should glue Mars to Mercury and they definitely should act in tandem here (although the relaxed orb might give possibility for differentiating them  for some moments).

Perhaps it is easier for you who know me, my friends, to see the way I express myself better. But I think I do feel something interesting that is similar to what you say, namely how Mars expresses itself as a direct, upfront, "attack" force in this combination, while Mercury, as per his role of mediator, would act as a pondering influence. Like the two voices: the little devil saying: charge!!! all instinct and drive and action (in communication, Mars) and Mercury: wait a minute, think about it, be eloquent, find the right words, seek the better, higher purpose with this communication (the thinker, the neutral, the intelligent, Mercury). Or the shrewd and Captain America. This back and forth can be reflected, I think, in the sometimes difficulty to pause before saying something else, or to choose silence over the last word. Or to pause thinking, just like you say. I think in this, in the choice, Pluto would make the final call (willpower, staying power, compulsion, restraint, or excess). I see my Mercury and Mars in this stellium as the two voices flanking Pluto, two warriors teaching him out of compulsion (hopefully) while he makes the final call, for good or bad. Haha not sure how to explain, I find it strange to talk about me in the first place, today, maybe because the moon is dark (new) hehehe.

Anyway, it's interesting to also consider Pluto here as the higher frequency of Mars ( it also rules MC, so he should have the final call, the consequences). What do you think?

Thinking more along the way of this very interesting topic, I think that yes, Ava , you are very eloquent in this description (that would be another characteristic of Mars Mercury being eloquent and/or to the point; and also, of you ), with this configuration, sometimes Mars blinds Mercury, or Mercury stifles Mars.

[the89freespirit]

Do you have the trine, Faith?

My Mercury is conjunct Mars in Virgo and in the 7th. (So, apparently, I have the same conjunction as your husband, different house) I have said something similar about Mercury-Mars people. We may put a lot of thought into our actions but very little into our words and vice versa. I can really do both. Mars is also the ruler of my 3rd, which pretty much amplifies the conjunction to Mercury. There are many times where I am not graceful at all in my communication. I can be really blunt and when I was younger, it was more... offensive. Now, it's more so my mouth racing to keep with my mind. So, the words come out quickly and sometimes harshly or thoughtlessly. I'm just often unaware of the effect of my speech. I've said things that people took as being quite combative or very judgmental, even when that wasn't my intention at all.

I can also really, really pick apart what people say in an argument. The Virgo Mercury criticism. So, I kind of let people walk into my mind traps. Haha. Something I've realized lately is that I do get a thrill out of arguing with people online and I can do it very well, probably because, thanks to the Virgo energy, I'm good at getting my thoughts together and articulating them. Figuring just the right way to word something or phrase a comeback. I remember that last year, on the place that shall not be named, there was a huge fight that erupted over politics that yours truly initiated. In the beginning of the thread, everyone was all like, "Let's not bring this up. I don't want to talk about it" and I came in, guns-blazing, and said, "Oh, no, we're talking about it!" I successfully shut down pretty much everyone who debated me, too.

Mars is competitive, so I do think Mercury-Mars people really love to flex our intelligence and engage in a battle of wits. It comes out differently, depending on the aspects. I've noticed those with the sextile and trine can engage in healthy debate in a more laidback way, unless it's really serious. The conjunction, though, can cause this button to be pushed whenever someone tries to argue with you, even when it's relatively harmless, and it's like you hear the Mortal Kombat "FINISH HIM" in your head. Haha, I can only imagine how intense the square and opposition must be. When those of us with the hard Mercury-Mars aspects go there in arguments, we really go there. We will give you a dragging from here to China and make you feel downright stupid in the process (but that could be my own Virgo energy at play). It's also why sometimes I don't like to argue because I know how brutal I can get.

It's interesting because in those moments, I really know how to think before I speak. But, in other moments, I don't at all. It's usually the moments where I don't feel challenged or tested by someone else intellectually and I'm just running my mouth, freely expressing my passion, not demanded to survive or win. So, it does really speak to how the duality of Mercury works with the fire of Mars.

[Ava]

Thanks for your thoughts, LeeLoo !

"I have my Mars Pluto Mercury stellium in Libra 8th, starting at 0 (Mars) and ending at Mercury(11) with Pluto just on mdp (6). It's not technically a pure Mercury/Mars conj to talk about, since Pluto there on the mdp weighs heavily, as it should. On the other hand, the configuration should glue Mars to Mercury and they definitely should act in tandem here (although the relaxed orb might give possibility for differentiating them for some moments)."

Ah! So I just realized you and I both have Libra Pluto on the Mercury-Mars midpoint! Your 8H Pluto pulls from the psychic depths of the situation (synthesizing traditional psychology with occultic wisdom; plumbing your creative well to produce artwork) while my 3H Pluto is more a verbal sharpshooter, targeting weaknesses..."weak" according my subjective value system, or simple logical fallacies. At any rate, Libra Pluto carries an energy like, "For the love of GOD, let's balance and beautify this!!"

"Perhaps it is easier for you who know me, my friends, to see the way I express myself better. But I think I do feel something interesting that is similar to what you say, namely how Mars expresses itself as a direct, upfront, "attack" force in this combination, while Mercury, as per his role of mediator, would act as a pondering influence. Like the two voices: the little devil saying: charge!!! all instinct and drive and action (in communication, Mars) and Mercury: wait a minute, think about it, be eloquent, find the right words, seek the better, higher purpose with this communication (the thinker, the neutral, the intelligent, Mercury). Or the shrewd and Captain America."

ROFL Your whole description matches what I was getting at, thank you.

"Haha not sure how to explain, I find it strange to talk about me in the first place, today, maybe because the moon is dark (new) hehehe."

Oh wow, yes! And Scorpio Mercury's like, "Shhhhh, everyone. Shhhh, we need to hear ourselves think."

"Anyway, it's interesting to also consider Pluto here as the higher frequency of Mars ( it also rules MC, so he should have the final call, the consequences). What do you think?"

Yes, I'm not in the habit of thinking that way, so I appreciate you jugging my memory. Pluto IS considered the higher octave of Mars...I found this tidbit: "Where Mars represents our personal will and desires, Pluto represents the will of the higher self – urging us to drop any pretense of limitation and evolve into our most empowered Self." (Link.) Not sure if that's true, Pluto can be ruthlessly claiming and territorial and act like the lower octave of Mars (at least when it's *my* Pluto, and I'm obsessing over someone!) But in a sense, whatever Mars strives to attain, Pluto attains more efficiently. Mars acts on the physical plane while Pluto manipulates the energy, the master codes, so to speak.

"Thinking more along the way of this very interesting topic, I think that yes, Faith , you are very eloquent in this description (that would be another characteristic of Mars Mercury being eloquent and/or to the point; and also, of you ), with this configuration, sometimes Mars blinds Mercury, or Mercury stifles Mars."

Thank you! In some ways I look at conjunctions as runners in a three-legged race:




It's slower, you trip sometimes, but it's arguably more fun and exciting. 🎉

[Ava]

Thank you, the89freespirit ! It's always great to get your perspective.

"Do you have the trine, Faith?"

It's almost 7°, so I suppose it's up to the astrologer?

5.00 Aquarius Mercury, 6H
11.44 Libra Pluto, 3H
16.01 Gemini Mars, 11H

"My Mercury is conjunct Mars in Virgo and in the 7th. (So, apparently, I have the same conjunction as your husband, different house) I have said something similar about Mercury-Mars people. We may put a lot of thought into our actions but very little into our words and vice versa. I can really do both."

OMG..."putting very thought into our words." Yes! My husband has set of quotes that he uses. Instead of thinking and responding uniquely, he might judge the situation and dispense a standardized response. Consequently I've heard the same things over and over. He also adopts my sayings and will "brand" a whole situation using something I've said many years ago. Despite this being a stale phrase by now, he can employ it in genius ways, making me laugh my head off. Other times it's not so charming, as when he's so thoroughly engaged with one problem that he has no brainpower to spare for the current situation, and speaks without thinking. In these moments he can be pretty hurtful (Mercury-Mars-Pluto). I tell my kids, "Just ignore him when he's on autopilot like that."

"Mars is also the ruler of my 3rd, which pretty much amplifies the conjunction to Mercury. There are many times where I am not graceful at all in my communication. I can be really blunt and when I was younger, it was more... offensive. Now, it's more so my mouth racing to keep with my mind. So, the words come out quickly and sometimes harshly or thoughtlessly. I'm just often unaware of the effect of my speech. I've said things that people took as being quite combative or very judgmental, even when that wasn't my intention at all."

It's hard to imagine all this as I can't recall ever thinking of you in this way, whatsoever. I suppose you've evolved from these earlier experiences...  

I can also really, really pick apart what people say in an argument. The Virgo Mercury criticism. So, I kind of let people walk into my mind traps. Haha.

AHH yes! A great oversight of mine, that I didn't touch on that in the OP! Mercury-Mars can trap others! My Mars in Gemini is usually interested in this: "So what's it like inside that trap? I'm curious...." Perhaps this is why I have, or have had, so many Mercury-Mars friends.

"Something I've realized lately is that I do get a thrill out of arguing with people online and I can do it very well, probably because, thanks to the Virgo energy, I'm good at getting my thoughts together and articulating them. Figuring just the right way to word something or phrase a comeback. I remember that last year, on the place that shall not be named, there was a huge fight that erupted over politics that yours truly initiated. In the beginning of the thread, everyone was all like, "Let's not bring this up. I don't want to talk about it" and I came in, guns-blazing, and said, "Oh, no, we're talking about it!" I successfully shut down pretty much everyone who debated me, too."

Awesome <3

"Mars is competitive, so I do think Mercury-Mars people really love to flex our intelligence and engage in a battle of wits. It comes out differently, depending on the aspects. I've noticed those with the sextile and trine can engage in healthy debate in a more laidback way, unless it's really serious. The conjunction, though, can cause this button to be pushed whenever someone tries to argue with you, even when it's relatively harmless, and it's like you hear the Mortal Kombat "FINISH HIM" in your head. Haha, I can only imagine how intense the square and opposition must be." 

ROFL

I've enjoyed debate, it's par for the course with the aspects I listed above, but as I got older I felt stupid even arguing with people who were behaving very stupidly. That's why sometimes I would just swat at a certain person with a dry one-liner, and watch in fascination as other people went into hysterics that I was "attacking this poor lady, again!" 

"When those of us with the hard Mercury-Mars aspects go there in arguments, we really go there. We will give you a dragging from here to China and make you feel downright stupid in the process (but that could be my own Virgo energy at play). It's also why sometimes I don't like to argue because I know how brutal I can get." 

Yeah that's perfect, I like communication strong like whiskey, and this probably factored heavily into my choice of partners, I needed someone bullet proof who could put up with me when I get all demonic and stuff. I've had three long, serious relationships. Two of the men have Mercury-Mars-Pluto and one has Virgo Mars on his sun-Pluto midpoint.

It's interesting because in those moments, I really know how to think before I speak. But, in other moments, I don't at all. It's usually the moments where I don't feel challenged or tested by someone else intellectually and I'm just running my mouth, freely expressing my passion, not demanded to survive or win. So, it does really speak to how the duality of Mercury works with the fire of Mars.

I completely relate to that. Thank you!

[anela]

Yep. Mercury in Aries. Square to Saturn affects things, as does a conjunction to Chiron and Ceres,