Article on Pregnancy in the chart

[lumina]

I stumbled across this article today. I really like her style. 



astrology of pregnancy

[Ava]

Great article...

My youngest was a surprise pregnancy, so I wanted to look at that.

9 months before his birth there was a new moon on my husband's Mars (oddly, this is conjunct my son's moon-Mars). Transiting draconic Mars @ 26° Leo was also conjunct that new moon @ 27° Leo. This on my draconic Jupiter @ 26° Leo.

This new moon opposed Neptune, maybe that explains some of the special magic of whatever happened (an unlikely pregnancy). Neptune rules my moon of course. Transiting draconic sun @ 27 Libra was conjunct my draconic Mars, my rectified IC, and my husband's Neptune, trine transiting Neptune in Aqua.

Transiting draconic Saturn @ 21 Scorpio on my NN (4th house), partile conjunction with our composite Neptune.

Transiting Jupiter @ 21 Aqua squared my NN/composite Neptune (and formed apex of a yod with Cancer Venus and Virgo Saturn).

Transiting draconic Chiron in partile conjunction with my natal Chiron. I was very, very distraught to get this news, though I ADORE my son, I was simply overwhelmed and hadn't meant to get pregnant. I basically cried this entire pregnancy.

Transiting draconic Uranus @ 25 Taurus was in partile conjunction with my draconic sun, about 0.09° orb!

In my solar return for that year, Uranus @ 19° Pisces is conjunct my natal moon. Wow...

I haven't even looked at solar arcs....

[Ava]

I hope it's clear that all the transits I mention pertain to the new moon exactly 9 months before my son was born. There are other things that are significant that I left out just because the sheer volume of "hits" is incredible. Like my son's draconic moon-Mars is conjunct my natal Uranus, while his draconic Uranus is exactly conjunct my natal Mars (!!! OMG)

Solar arcs for that new moon....

* SA sun @ 19 Aqua squaring my nodes
* SA Mars @ 20 Cancer, trine NN, conjunct composite ASC-Mars
* SA Jupiter @ 20 Taurus, partile conjunction with SN
* SA Neptune @ 16 Cap, separating from my sun...I think this doesn't count, it's out of orb

[lumina]

and again the Sun-Jupiter-complex being moved to a prominent position, and the nodes are usually present in pregnancy and births. (as they are in different connections, as this is what they are about).

I even find SA Jupiter in fertile Taurus fitting!

If the orb for SA Neptune separating from your Sun was more than 30 or 40 minutes of orb, yes, definitely out of orb.

Well of course Neptune can mean different things, but often in a prominent placement like the Sun it comes with a sense of bewilderment. I actually love that word. lol

[lumina]

BTW was SA Neptune configured with your Jupiter? either separating or applying? and is Jupiter ruling your 5th house?

[lumina]

just a quick glance, but my sister in law had sa NN conjunct her Cancer IC, coming into orb just around her probably conception date. lol
By the time my nephew was born this aspect was only 13 minutes separating, so still very much in orb, it must have been exact roundabout when she was 6 months pregnant or so.


around the same time she was also having SA Sun sesisquare Uranus and SA NN sesisquare Mars; sa Pluto square Venus, sa Venus conjunct Mercury, sa Jupiter semisquare Sun, and sa Vertex sesisquare Sun - and the funny thing is they were all "due" right around the same time.

sa Pluto = Venus might sound strange, but there was a lot of intensifying of course going on, the growing attachment to her baby as well as I think an intensifying of her relationship to my brother, which would eventually lead into them getting married.

There was a lot activation of her n as well as SA Sun; she has a Jupiter-Vertex-square natally and by the time of her pregnancy Sun had moved into the midpoint of this square.

BTW Sun is not only a luminary in her chart and she is having a fullmoon, Sun-Moon-opposition, but Sun rules her 5th house natally; 1 degree Leo on the 5th house cusp, and funny enough their son is a little Leo. lol



during the course of her pregnancy these transits stood out to me:

Tr NN conjunct n Moon
Tr Chiron opposite n Moon
Tr Chiron conjunct n Sun
Tr Pluto semisquare n Venus (repeating the theme from her arc of sa Pluto = Venus! Pluto is her intercepted 7th house ruler and is inside her 7th house, with Venus ruling the DESC itself; Pluto is actually widely conjunct her DESC - so I guess this relates to the relationship-intensification)
Tr Jupiter square n Uranus
Tr Neptune square n Uranus
Tr Saturn conjunct n Uranus
Tr Jupiter and Neptune square n nodal axis
Tr Saturn conjunct n SN
Tr Uranus semisquare n NN (exact at the birth of the little one)
Tr Jupiter and Neptune also semisquare/sesisquare the n ASC


The emphasis on Uranus is interesting. Uranus rules her 11th house and is in her 8th house, it is a stationary planet (high emphasis), falling onto her nodal axis (SN), and in fact falling onto my brother`s Stellium of Moon-Jupiter-URanus, which squares his Sun. It is a very energized spot in their synastry obviously, and it was highlighted.

NOt to mention that they were very surprised HOW quickly she got pregnant, once they decided to be open to have a family. they had thought it would take at least 2 - 3 more years to get pregnant, but turned out, she immediately conceived. lol And throughout the pregnancy, there were some surprising things happen, most positive, but there were also some scares (as to the fear the little one might have the Down syndrome, which is so Uranian. lol, he didn`t, but for a few weeks they weren`t sure. Or that she pretty much had to have a planned emergency caesarean, and so on; especially the last part of the pregnancy was probably more exciting than was really good.)

[Ava]

Oct 12, 2017 16:32:03 GMT lumina said:

BTW was SA Neptune configured with your Jupiter? either separating or applying? and is Jupiter ruling your 5th house?

SA Neptune separating from Jupiter and out of orb. Though it's funny when both are/were at 16°.

O, the world of miniature orbs! 

[Ava]

Oct 12, 2017 16:59:34 GMT lumina said:

The emphasis on Uranus is interesting. Uranus rules her 11th house and is in her 8th house, it is a stationary planet (high emphasis), falling onto her nodal axis (SN), and in fact falling onto my brother`s Stellium of Moon-Jupiter-URanus, which squares his Sun. It is a very energized spot in their synastry obviously, and it was highlighted.

Thanks for the data...and this re-iterates the importance of looking at the father's chart as well!

Of course I also wonder about the draconic transits but it seems I'm more of a zealot for those than others.  Plus it's off topic.

But I'm curious if the draconic transits around conception highlighted anything?

[lumina]

Oct 13, 2017 16:26:53 GMT Ava said:

Oct 12, 2017 16:59:34 GMT lumina said:

The emphasis on Uranus is interesting. Uranus rules her 11th house and is in her 8th house, it is a stationary planet (high emphasis), falling onto her nodal axis (SN), and in fact falling onto my brother`s Stellium of Moon-Jupiter-URanus, which squares his Sun. It is a very energized spot in their synastry obviously, and it was highlighted.

Thanks for the data...and this re-iterates the importance of looking at the father's chart as well!

Of course I also wonder about the draconic transits but it seems I'm more of a zealot for those than others.  Plus it's off topic.

But I'm curious if the draconic transits around conception highlighted anything?

I agree with you about the father`s chart. 

Also, I was just focusing on the big bells in solar arc methodology. It`s not that I don`t think DRaconics are important, but for me it is easier to start with the basics, as otherwise I get lost in a myriads of measurements, which might all have their meaning, but that meaning unfolds on some sort of basis. 

It`s like trying to grow a tree. (tree being the Draconics or midpoints or whatever). Plant it on infertile ground and even though the tree has the potential to be the most beautiful cherry tree, you won´t never see, cause the ground was not there to begin with. 
Plant it on already fertile ground, and the result will be astonishing. 

Of course we can argue what is the basis, maybe the Dracos are the ground. but in terms of predictive astrology, which is what this is, I think the ground really is the combination of solar arcs/ progressions/transits with the natal, and from there on the potential unfolds and of course will show modified results. 


However the draconic chart might be very telling in particular in questions of parenthood, too. (along with questions about connecting with others and our spiritual path), as some associate it also with the mother (this comes from the fact that the nodal axis is seen as LUNAR node, and lunar has something to do with the maternal theme and of course the nodal axis is the basis on which the Dracos are calculated). 


I have not checked it, but I am very sure that Draconic aspects will come up in my sister in law`s chart (and my brothers). However I think we have a "winner", if those DRaconic transits will also in symbolism match AND point to the planets that were being highlighted in the basic comparision. So of course the nodal axis itself, her Uranus and Sun probably, also her Moon, and of course the luminaries, as these are always important and in this case her IC was highlighted by the conjunction to the sa nodal axis anyway. 

[lumina]

BTW my sister in law conceived with transiting NN on 00 Libra, so every tropical transit was also a Draconic transit, just on the exact opposite position. 

the transits to her Draconic chart were (since the conception date is always just a rough approximation, I am using a 2 degree orb for instead of partile)

Tr Jupiter conjunct Dr Mars - 2 degrees
Tr Jupiter opp. Dr Chiron - 1 degree
Tr Neptune opposite Dr Saturn exact


Squares of transiting to her Draco planets:

Tr Saturn square Dr Saturn - 1 degree
Tr Uranus square Dr Sun exact
Tr Uranus square Dr Moon - 2 degrees


Mars rulers her ASC and is in 7th house
Saturn rulers her MC and is in her 7th house
Sun rules her 5th house cusp and is in her 12th house
Moon rules her IC and is in her 6th house

The Uranus-transit to her draconic fullmoon makes the most sense, and interesting new addition to the picture is the transiting Saturn-Neptune-square triggering her own Dr Saturn; Saturn is peregrine in her chart, but Draco Saturn is opposing her tropical Venus, which received a square of solar arc Pluto (ruler of her natal Saturn btw) during that time. (Draco Saturn was not yet under the square to sa -trpical) Pluto, as the orb between Dr Saturn and natal Venus is 3 degrees).

[Ava]

Thanks, lumina ~

Just going to highlight this:

"However the draconic chart might be very telling in particular in questions of parenthood, too. (along with questions about connecting with others and our spiritual path), as some associate it also with the mother (this comes from the fact that the nodal axis is seen as LUNAR node, and lunar has something to do with the maternal theme and of course the nodal axis is the basis on which the Dracos are calculated)."

Ahhh yes

Well, I don't know which carries the most weight, solar arcs, transits, draco transits, or something undiscovered, I'm content to make a salad of it, as that pleases me. And I'm sorry for derailing. I'm just dazzled by draco transits, like a child with a kaleidoscope, I could look at these for hours.

"Tr Saturn square Dr Saturn - 1 degree"

I had transiting draconic Saturn conjunct my draconic Saturn, when I got pregnant the first time. Maybe just a coincidence for us both. In my case, transiting draconic Saturn was actually closer to my natal Neptune.

"Tr Uranus square Dr Sun exact"

I love Uranus, it creates so many huge experiences, though I don't mean to celebrate the accidents and disruptive events, only the happy stuff.

I got married with transiting draconic sun conjunct my Uranus (less than 2°) and got pregnant pretty much immediately thereafter, though I don't know the day. The sun and Jupiter were conjunct less than 2 weeks after the wedding. In draconic they were in partile conjunction with my NN @ 20° Scorpio. His draco Jupiter conjunct his sun with about 3° orb, on my draco ASC (rectified).

I definitely think Jupiter rules my 5th house with events like this.

And it's funny, his tropical moon is conjunct draconic Saturn in Capricorn (less than 1° orb). It's the reverse of me, with draconic moon in Cancer conjunct tropical Saturn.

Okay I'm getting dizzy. A few more details...

My second child, she has draco Jupiter on her NN-moon (she was born right after an eclipse).

---

Third...well if I just move his birthday back 9 months and assume that's when he was conceived, transiting draco Saturn @ 20° Taurus on my SN. And he's a Cap ASC, Cap moon with moon-Saturn mutual reception. Just like I have sun-Saturn mutual reception. His 26.59° Cancer Saturn is conjunct mine in Leo; his Saturn is conjunct my draconic moon @ 28° Cancer. And can you guess where his draco moon is?? 8° Sag, conjunct my draconic Saturn, of course! Conjunct his father's Saturn, and my father's Saturn. This is just weird.

He also has sun square Saturn exact. Because why not.

Still, on that day 9 months before birth...transit draconic Jupiter @ 0° Leo on my Saturn. Transit draconic sun @ 11 Sag on my draconic Saturn @ 10 Sag. Transit sun @ 29 Cap, square my tropical Saturn. 

His nodes square my Saturn (less than 2°), they are conjunct my mother's and sister's nodes, while his sun is conjunct my father's, and his chart looks a lot like my dad's.

Okay I'll shut up now...

I hear you about solar arcs, my brain just wants to travel along its usual grooves.

[lumina]

Ava


" I could look at these for hours."
Yes, but do you understand the picture they show or the story they tell?

I do understand the fascination though, just sometimes it is to me just like looking at some pieces of a jigsaw puzzle saying: that is beautiful.
But stating the beauty of it does not really seem enough for me. I want to put together the puzzle and see the whole picture, but for that I need to know where they fit.

Anyway for now I hypothize, and I may be wrong, that they do not necessarily pinpoint a time for an event (maybe Draco predictive charts do?), but once an event happens they may elaborate on its meaning or purpose.



"

I had transiting draconic Saturn conjunct my draconic Saturn, when I got pregnant the first time."
That is interesting.

Well it does make some sense though, as pregnancy and becoming a mother re-structures your life totally and you will take on responisiblity like never before. My brother actually had Tr Saturn conjunct his Moon-Uranus-Jupiter and square his Sun, when Robin was born. It was also a very taxing time for him in terms of the exams. But it was definitely a maturing transit.

but these were in tropical strictly.

*sighs* Well actually next time I am possibly going to see Patrick (25th november) Tr Dr Saturn will be conjunct my Dr Chiron, and Tr Dr Chiron conjunct my Dr Saturn, both exact.

Not sure I even wanted to know that!

This will be shortly after Tr Dr Saturn will square my Dr Saturn. uff.

WEll transiting (tropical) Saturn was conjunct my Draco Saturn exact, when he got together with Maria, but then again that Tr Saturn was also exactly square my pr Sun.


"I love Uranus, it creates so many huge experiences, "
Yes, me, too!

Of all outer planets, including Saturn, I prefer Uranus-transits by far!



"I definitely think Jupiter rules my 5th house with events like this."
Yes, absolutely!!!




"And it's funny, his tropical moon is conjunct draconic Saturn in Capricorn (less than 1° orb). It's the reverse of me, with draconic moon in Cancer conjunct tropical Saturn. "
A cool interplay there, though, very serious of course, committed parental stuff, too.

[Ava]

lumina ,

Hmm, just this for now....I feel like researching...

"Yes, but do you understand the picture they show or the story they tell?"

Have I given evidence of non-understanding?

It's rather self-explanatory data as far as I'm concerned.

But okay, a story:

I consider Saturn representative of the father. And the child I had whose chart is most like my father's (birthdays one day apart), it seems I conceived him with transiting draconic Saturn on my SN (ruled by Venus, and he's a Libra). I demonstrated how Saturn is his chart ruler, highly significant with him personally and in the family context. Could this draco transit to my SN have any predictive value? That's the question I have felt like exploring. For starter's I would need to see if there are patterns with my other children.

It's true, I don't have exact dates for conception, but small windows. I can only theorize within a certain range and orb. I do find it telling that I had:

* Transiting draconic sun-Jupiter conjunct my NN when I conceived my oldest. (And my husband and I have draconic composite Jupiter @ 19.31 Scorpio, on my NN, too.)

Could this have predicted anything to an astrologer who considered draconic transits to nodes significant? Considering that Jupiter rules my 5H, shouldn't both tropical and draconic Jupiter transits be worth looking at?

Well my NN is in Scorpio, and his 8H Sag sun is conjunct Pluto (and his draconic Jupiter). Moreover, his draconic Pluto is conjunct his Leo NN (widely conjunct Leo draco sun). We could ignore the significance of transiting sun-Jupiter on my NN when I conceived him, but why? It almost looks the seed energy of his chart.

* Transiting draconic Jupiter on transiting NN (less than 1°) when I had my second child, opposing her Sag SN. Her Jupiter trine my Jupiter.

Her due date was calculated using ultrasound. 9 months before that date, the transiting draconic sun was conjunct Uranus @ 29° Scorpio, trine my Saturn and the AP. And her tropical sun's @ 28 Scorpio. So of course I find that significant.

Conception:

1) Draconics:

Transiting draconic Jupiter @ 10° Aries opposing my NN dispositor, Pluto, trine my 5H Venus (SN dispositor), applying to conjunction with natal Jupiter/draco Venus. I like that.

Of course this is only one part of a fuller picture.

2) Regular transits:
Transiting tropical Jupiter conjunct composite Jupiter with my husband, in Cancer, disposited by moon in Pisces.  

3) Progressions:
My progressed moon @ 3° Pisces, conjunct draconic IC & draco composite sun-Venus

4) Solar arcs:
SA Chiron @ 20° Taurus exactly on my SN
SA NN @ 16° Sag, conjunct tr Pluto @ 17° Sag, conjunct draco ASC @ 17° Sag, trine natal Jupiter @ 16° Aries.
SA Mars-Jupiter @ 12° Taurus/Cancer forming a yod with my natal Neptune @ 12°, moon dispositor.

5) Solar Return
Sun conjunct Venus
SR Mars @ 20 Pisces on 5H Cusp, conjunct natal moon, trine NN
SR Uranus @ 22 Aqua, conjunct draconic Pluto, square nodes (curiously, tr draco Pluto on composite Uranus as well)

Looking at all of that, I don't know if it's one storyline or many. The puzzle pieces connect in more than one place, and I'm not even listing all the data, there is more.

If I had been astrologer, wanting to get pregnant, and I did an overview of that year with an ephemeris and various charts, what would I have seen that looked most promising? Well, that's hard to say.

But maybe I would have seen the transiting SN conjunct my 5H Sag Venus, during a lunar eclipse, with transiting Jupiter trine my Jupiter, and draco Jupiter on the NN, and sat up straight, hoping? And indeed, that's when the stork arrived.  

[lumina]

Ava

I did not mean to imply you didn`t know the story, or the meaning of the Dracos. If anyone knows, then it`s you.

It was more a rhetorical general question, as i find it important that we keep an overview over all these lists we do, what they mean etc.
Personally at times I get lost in too many of these measurements, and then at other times they just enhance the whole picture. I suppose it depends on the perspective.

Your examples serve as great research btw.

And yes, I think something like pregnancy would reverberate through all the charts. I guess my anchors are the luminaries, angles and nodal axis, in all possible charts, and it would worth looking up what is grouping around them.

When you did your list, it just struck me that this year for me might have been or might be a Venus-developmental- year.

Just been thinking about how my pr Venus is on 29 Aquarius (entering pisces on my birthday), how my Solar Return has Mars-ASC on 28-29 Aquarius, and features a Moon-Venus-opposition from Leo-Aquarius.
Plus my pr Mars is currently applying to an exact conjunction to my natal Venus (will perfect in november). (should I make a note? Solar Return angular Mars falling onto progressed Venus exact, with progressed Mars meeting up with natal Venus? lol)

and of course my Draconic Venus is on 25, well almost 26 Aries, and I guess we both know where Tr Uranus has been moving all year long and still is. lol (funny enough just while P is receiving those Uranian blows as squares to his tropical Venus, I am receiving them to my Draco Venus, and well his Draco Saturn. lol - hmm, never realized but my Draco Venus squares his tropical Venus with 00 or 01 minute of orb - domino effect?, or well not even domino, more like lightening striking once and catching two for the price of one?)


Honestly speaking though I am not quite sure what to make of Draconic transits, I know you love them, but I have not yet found a firm handle on them, what they describe. Some sort of fate coming from an external source?


oh and you mentioned lunar eclipses, eclipses are definitely big triggers!

[lumina]

just realized the upcoming New Moon will be opposite my Draco Venus, and with a tight orb as well, with Tr Uranus being conjunct my Draco Venus. 

Not a good time for having crazy ideas right now, right?  

[Ava]

Oh! I'll reply soon, lumina .

I just came back to post this...yes, there was a lunar eclipse about 16 hours before my daughter was born.

The tropical axis for the eclipse is 27.33° Scorpio/Taurus; the moon's conjunct my draconic sun, less than 2°.

Here is the draconic chart for the eclipse, my location:



See? The transiting draconic moon in partile conjunction with my moon!

Transiting draconic Neptune conjunct tropical sun.

"Honestly speaking though I am not quite sure what to make of Draconic transits, I know you love them, but I have not yet found a firm handle on them, what they describe. Some sort of fate coming from an external source?"

No...well, to me fate is organic, neither external nor internal, but all interwoven. I think draco transits can be almost hyper-real, describing things in even more emphatically clear patterns than tropical. 

If I looked at that eclipse at the beginning of the year before I got pregnant, it wouldn't have seemed relevant to me, not really. 27° Scorpio/Taurus? I have nothing there. 

Only the draconic charts show how tightly connected I am to that particular eclipse: tropical moon conjunct draconic sun, draconic moon conjunct natal moon exactly.

Here's another example of "hyper-real"....

My husband and I have my Venus (6 Sag) on his Saturn (7 Sag). We got married with a transiting Venus-Saturn conjunction, unintentionally. In tropical, this transiting conjunction fell in early Taurus, grand-crossing my fixed t-square. That's cool but....this is the draconic transit:



Okay, draconic transiting Venus-Saturn right on our Venus-Saturn conjunction. That's more literal, more real! But you may frown on the wide orbs....

But wait, I have another rabbit in my hat! This is my draconic Saturn:



(Sun's in Libra and I'm feeling visual )

So, I got married with transiting draconic Saturn conjunct my draconic Saturn, with a mere 0.02° orb. A draconic Saturn return, at age 23. As I unknowingly married a man whose Saturn is conjunct my father's Saturn. What kind of drugs is the Universe taking, that it arranges for this stuff to happen? 

Not trying to sell anything, just sayin'....

[Ava]

Hi again lumina ,

"*sighs* Well actually next time I am possibly going to see Patrick (25th november) Tr Dr Saturn will be conjunct my Dr Chiron, and Tr Dr Chiron conjunct my Dr Saturn, both exact.
Not sure I even wanted to know that!"

Hmm, I reached that point last night, too, looking at upcoming transits that were just too spooky for my (Pluto entering Aquarius, opposing my Saturn immediately, with simultaneous transits that look bad.) Sometimes I just need to tell astrology to shove it, or just pray and try harder to offset whatever grim unfolding of events I imagine.

Maybe this will be solidly good for you though -- tangible medicine, Saturn/Chiron. Or is that too optimistic? lol

"This will be shortly after Tr Dr Saturn will square my Dr Saturn. uff."

Transiting draconic Saturn is conjunct my tropical Saturn at the moment, 0.05° orb. Feels stable, but I can't speak for the square.

"WEll transiting (tropical) Saturn was conjunct my Draco Saturn exact, when he got together with Maria, but then again that Tr Saturn was also exactly square my pr Sun."

Geez!

"When you did your list, it just struck me that this year for me might have been or might be a Venus-developmental- year."

Looks like a Venus-Mars year, definitely take the whole set Like salt and pepper shakers, they go together.

"hmm, never realized but my Draco Venus squares his tropical Venus with 00 or 01 minute of orb - domino effect?, or well not even domino, more like lightening striking once and catching two for the price of one?"

Definitely....considering the level of mutual interest, a Venus-Venus aspect like that really seems fitting. And his draco Cancer planets play a role in all that, too...you two have that cardinal t-square. Soon it will be grand-crossed, activated by the transiting sun in Libra, while transiting draconic Uranus in Sag begins forming conjunctions with your stellium, so let's see if anything happens.