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Post by Ava on Aug 12, 2017 23:51:27 GMT
Looking for observations or beliefs, or whatever you've got. I'm sure this has been talked about before, but for some reason I'm thinking of it with added force lately, so I'd like to revisit the theme. --- To find midpoints, if you haven't found them before: Simply choose "Ebertin style w. midpoints" for the chart drawing style, then click on "Additonal Tables (PDF)" and work your way through the glyphs. It's confusing even for me, and I've looked at these lists countless times. The glyphs are so small, though. Where it says "Midpoint in 90 Degree Order"....the first 30 degrees are all cardinal, the second 30 are fixed, the final 30 are mutable. (Thank you lumina for explaining that to me.) So all midpoints in the 15° cardinal range, regardless of sign, will appear at 15°, while 15° fixed will appear in the 45° range, and 15° mutable will show in the 75° range. --- I'm working off of John Sandbach's excellent and helpful descriptions. So if my sun falls on someone's Mercury/moon midpoint, I can Google that, find Sandbach's opinion, and get a starting place for my musings. More to say later...
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Post by Ava on Aug 13, 2017 4:46:56 GMT
Person A's planet hitting person B's midpoint...
I would guess that if it's person A's:
SUN, the midpoint may be very strongly stimulated, come alive, present itself openly.
MERCURY, the midpoint resonates with person A's communication, is reactive to words, may find truth there, or aggravation...it would depend on the midpoint, whole charts, circumstances.
VENUS, the midpoint is gentled, or compelled towards balance and creativity.
MARS, the midpoint is challenged, excited, or cracked open for good or ill.
And so on....
My thinking is, the sun, Mars, and Uranus are the planets most likely to elicit a noticeable reaction that reflects the nature of the midpoint. I say that because they are all kinetic and active in their own way. I don't include Mercury because that is almost too kinetic, with things happening so fast and incessantly, the important stuff may get lost amidst the more mundane. Just my loose speculation, and I suppose it depends on the Mercury sign.
When the sun, Mars or Uranus hit another person's midpoints that involve malefics, there might be turbulence (for instance, A's Mars against B's Saturn/Pluto); when they hit softer planets, there could be more of an expression of previously hidden or vulnerable ideas (for instance, Mars hitting moon/Neptune midpoint...while it might be *too much* over the long haul, at first, the Mars person could inspire moon/Neptune to dream bigger and do more...such was actually the case in my own experience.)
Rough drafting here, just kicking ideas around...
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Post by lumina on Aug 13, 2017 11:33:29 GMT
Your thinking makes sense, however I have definitely seen strong reactions to other planets as activators, too. I think though it might depend on how strongly these planets are placed ine a person`s chart, and also if there might be an underlying aspectconfiguration at play. In terms of isolated midpoints (without an underlying t-Square, Grand-trine, minor triangle, Yod, etc.).
Well I most definitely have seen a very strong activation going on with P`s Venus conjunct my Moon/Venus-mp (and some other midpoints), even though Venus is not naturally an active energy.
I guess with Sun, Mars and Uranus here, the energy activated would be more visibly expressed? Instead of just felt? Do you know how I mean? then let me have a look if there are things happening with Sun, Mars, Uranus in our synastry.
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Post by lumina on Aug 13, 2017 11:39:17 GMT
BTW I think the ASC (and possibly the ruler of ASC) are active points, too. It`s what we instinctually express or radiate, even if we might not be completely aware of, but whatever touches the angles (especially ASC), becomes just as energized as if it was conjunct Sun, which on its own as a symbol is not really kinetic energy btw. The sun just "is" and by being and radiating the essence of something or a person, it becomes strongly activating. (it is not like we consciously strive to take actions to express it, it sort of just happens, and others react to that)
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Post by lumina on Aug 13, 2017 12:24:34 GMT
Ava, oh and which orb do you use?
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Post by Ava on Aug 13, 2017 12:35:48 GMT
Yes definitely, about the ASC!
"I guess with Sun, Mars and Uranus here, the energy activated would be more visibly expressed? Instead of just felt? Do you know how I mean?"
That's what I was wondering about.
So I'm looking at charts and I see my husband's Mars in Leo opposes my moon/Mercury midpoint @ 26° Aquarius.
(Moon/Mercury) Principle: The communication of feelings. Subjective thinking and communicating, or thinking colored by feeling. The ability to open up and be vulnerable when sharing one's thoughts. Thoughts that are not objective, and which shift and change according to one's moods.
Mars: Whenever one does anything there is a tendency to modify one's way of doing it on the spur of the moment. The forceful or impulsive communication of one's feelings. One uses emotion-laden words to express anger. The urge to act on one's thoughts of the moment.
I guess this fits, though a lot may fall under this umbrella, from cold silence ("not going to talk if you're going to challenge everything") to more positive expressions (after I give a monologue from the heart, he changes his mind and decides to do something different.)
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Post by Ava on Aug 13, 2017 12:38:03 GMT
Ava , oh and which orb do you use? About 1°
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Post by lumina on Aug 13, 2017 12:55:43 GMT
From what you told me, it does fit really well, don`t you think? In the very least he really activates your thinking and not just thinking but sort of the mix of emotion and thoughtprocesses. If things go well, it might feel wonderful, if not so well, I guess communication can get very emotional and possibly taking things very personal, even if they are not meant that way, and then one reaction could be the "silent treatment" just as much as debating. Don`T forget your Moon is in Pisces. I think probably the signbackground of the participating planets might still figure in.
For example my Moon/Mercury-mp might still bring the Aqua-Sag-mix into it as my planets are naturally placed there (to be honest I have not really noticed the midpoint sign itself to override the single planets in the mix. I do think my emotional communication is still more Aquarius-Sag-like than Capricornian, but I am open to be proven otherwise).
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Post by lumina on Aug 13, 2017 14:38:44 GMT
Sun with Jupiter/Neptune looks pretty cool, but do we put a negative spin on it when it's *square* the midpoint? Not when you read the authors who specialize in midpoint-astrology. They say it does not matter (much), and it is just a point of activation, loaded with energy. But those astrologers also usually focus more on event astrology than personal one. Personally I think, but this is just a hypothesis, that while the square is not negative per se, it might have a quality on its own, like the activation hits you "sideways", and you didn`t see it coming. This does not say it is negative or positive, for that we have to see which planets are involved, I think that counts more in terms of negative/positive than if it is a conjunction or square. Interesting you mentioned these two midpoints. P`s Venus is conjunct my Jupiter/Neptune-mp, and his Sun is square my Mars/Saturn-mp. Actually the midpoints activated are a bit of the "phew-this-must-be-exhausting"-nature. Not really the kind I would have expected to spell the good stuff that certainly has also been part of our connection so far. All looks fairly heavy and serious.
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Post by lumina on Aug 13, 2017 14:46:57 GMT
NOt quoting your reply, but I loved the last paragraph, and yes this makes sense, especially since your Sun is in Capricorn. and yes, dreaming and planning can be really fun. Too few people understand that, that the process itself can make it worthwhile, not always the result (though it is nice to have some results occasionally of course).
I sometimes feel like I am much more process-oriented than result-oriented. Like it is more about the experience and evolvement, the journey itself, not necessarily the moment you reach your destination. (actually this thought gives me NIGHTMARES, to arrive somewhere and just be.... there. What do you do when you have reached the shore? No, no, no, for a rest that is great, but just sitting there and do... what exactly??? I think I will always need just one more dream, that I can at least have in the back of my mind, and if you take that away from me, you could as well shoot me right here and now, because then I`d be dead. Drastic? Yes, maybe, but sometimes I really doubt I even WANT to reach a goal, of let`s say, I like reaching goals, but then there has to be something else coming after that. In fact whenever I reached a goal in my life, I was of course proud and happy like eeryone else but very soon was there this strange feeling of being in limbo, like some kind of black hole before me. And what now? When the work is all done? What then? I acutally experience that a little every time before the holidays. lol This: Okay I don`t know how I did it, but I did correct all papers, I did do all things I was supposed to and tomorrow the holidays will start. What on earth am I going to do with that? Of course I get used to it fairly quickly. lol)
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Post by lumina on Aug 13, 2017 14:55:19 GMT
Well I tried a different approach then usually and looked up the midpoint activations between P and his best friend. It was surely interesting. Well friend to P: Sun = Sun/MC = Sun/Moon = Moon/MC Mars = Jupiter/Pluto = Mars/Pluto = Mercury/Venus Uranus = Neptune/Chiron = Mercury/Uranus (1°23) and now this is where it gets even more interesting P to friend: Sun = Sun/Venus = Venus/Mars = Node/Chiron = Mercury/Pluto Mars = URanus/Neptune (1°20) = Mercury/Venus (1°3) Uranus = Uranus/Chiron = Neptune/Pluto (ASC = Sun/Venus) Well, well, well, makes you think, right?
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Post by lumina on Aug 13, 2017 14:59:24 GMT
You might be right about Sun = Mars/Saturn, forgetting the doom prophecies about this one, Mars/Saturn when working together is one of the most effective energies in constructing something, but it needs a goal, otherwise Mars and SAturn will only hinder each other and annoy the crap out of each other (yes even within one personality), Sun might be just the right candidate to bring that together, illuminate some goal. Not to forget I have that natally of course, too. Here in this instance my Mars/Saturn falls into Virgo, so Sun is activating it by square. (Actually my Mars/Saturn-mp is pretty closish to his DESC, whatever that means).
But even on good days Mars / SAturn can be a bit slow and boring. lol but once a goal has set, pretty stubborn.
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Post by lumina on Aug 13, 2017 15:02:49 GMT
There are some midpoints activated by his Venus in my chart, all by conjunction btw.
Neptune/Ceres 1°08 Ceres/Node 1°01 Jupiter/Neptune 0°20 Jupiter/Node 0°14 Mars/Juno 0°11 Moon/Venus 0°42 Juno/ASC 1°05
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Post by lumina on Aug 13, 2017 15:06:46 GMT
Aww, my brother loves this Robbins guy, well has been talking about a lot a few years ago, and yes, I totally agree with that. A sense of progress is what keeps me sane and going and feeling alive. Well I have a lot of mutable planets in my chart (Sun, Mercury, Mars, Jupiter, nodal axis, ASC) maybe that describes that, too. Well must be even harder for P actually with Sun, Moon, Mercury, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Nodes, ASC and MC all in mutable signs. lol
It`s only his Venus, Uranus and Pluto that are NOT mutable, and Uranus being a singleton at least twice because of being the only planet in WATER and in FIXED modality. Fixed Uranus is weird anyway, even though of course it rules a fixed sign, but still I do not really associate Uranus with fixed energy, yet here we are, our genaration with Uranus in the fixed sign of Scorpio. lol
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2017 21:35:38 GMT
To find midpoints, if you haven't found them before: …….. Where it says "Midpoint in 90 Degree Order"....the first 30 degrees are all cardinal, the second 30 are fixed, the final 30 are mutable. (Thank you lumina for explaining that to me.) So all midpoints in the 15° cardinal range, regardless of sign, will appear at 15°, while 15° fixed will appear in the 45° range, and 15° mutable will show in the 75° range. Ava, would you please illustrate? What would someone's Sun/Moon md pt at 75.29 in the 90 degree order be equivalent to?
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Post by lumina on Aug 13, 2017 22:08:20 GMT
@astrokeen .
Their Sun/Moon-mp would be at 15°29 of any of the mutable signs, Gemini, Virgo, Sag or Pisces.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 9:18:57 GMT
So if the md pt were to be at 85.29, would that still be equivalent to 15.29 of the mutable signs? And 65.29, would be equivalent to 15.29 of the fixed signs?
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Post by lumina on Aug 14, 2017 10:01:29 GMT
No, 85° would be 25° of mutables; 65° would be 5° of mutable signs.
Imagine it like this:
We have 0°00-29°59 represening here not only Aries, but ALL cardinal signs. So if you find something on 13° in the 90° sort, then it really means it is 13° of any cardinal sign (Aries, Cancer, Libra, CApricorn).
30°00 - 59°59 represents ALL Fixed signs, not just Taurus; now to get the actual degree, you have to substract 30° from what is given (because the fixed signs start at 30°00, not at 00°00), so if you have something like 46° after substracting 30° you get to 16° of any fixed sign.
60°00 - 89°59 represents all mutable signs; here you have to substract 60°, so 85° really is equivalent to 25° of any mutable sign. in the 90 degree sort you cannot see which sign it is, just which modality it belongs to. But since midpoint astrologers treat conjunction, opposition and square the same, this does not matter to them, as those are all of the same modality.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 12:27:23 GMT
Ah! It's clear now .
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Post by lumina on Aug 14, 2017 13:27:07 GMT
Sun equals Venus/Pluto midpoint is pretty potent and lines up with things I've been saying all along about my marriage. Wow! You have Sun on the Venus/Pluto-midpoint. I definitely say that is VERY potent! BTW I`ve noticed quite a lot of activations of the usual suspects midpointwise (like Venus/Mars, Sun/Venus, Venus/ASC etc.) with someone elses MC-IC or nodal axis. Is it just in the synastries I looked up or did you see this, too? Oh and Ceres curiously. but that might be a family thing. lol (in these midpointinterpretations I`d read Ceres like the Moon, it is not exactly the same, but comes very close. Well I guess I am partial to Ceres-midpoints as my Moon falls onto P`s Moon/Ceres, Sun/Ceres and Ceres/MC )
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