Draconic Moon conjunct Moon synastry

[FruityLlama]

Does anyone have any experience with this at all? I just noticed it in a synastry now, not much I can say right now as I don't know them well but their Dr. Moon is right on my Dr. Sun-Moon MP. 

Many thanks in advance


EDIT: Also Draconic Venus-Mars..? I've noticed this appear in some synastries before, seems to appear in synastries where attraction was involved.

[Ava]

Oh my goodness, for me this can be a very strange connection, if their draco moon is conjunct my natal moon in Pisces.

Well it's similar to draco sun conjunct my sun, where I feel like the draco planet is almost more purely like me than I am. The tighter the conjunction, the more I get that feeling.

I'm starting to entertain the idea that draconic is simply the female/lunar zodiac and tropical is male/solar. (Please nobody quote me on that or argue, it's just me being whimsical.) In that paradigm, any draconic planet would automatically be a "moon" manifestation, a yin counterpart, infused with feminine power.

So my Pisces moon is intuitive but a draconic Pisces moon is like a distillate of that and MORE intuitive, including specifics about me.

(My draconic Uranus is conjunct my natal moon. Therefore, a draco Pisces moon on my moon will be conjunct my draco Uranus, and accordingly, sometimes these people have shocked me, almost "rebirthed" me with revelations.)

Not sure how that would play out in other signs. Any ideas yet FruityLlama ? Where is your draconic moon?

Re: Venus and Mars

Off the top of my head, I know of a long relationship where A's natal Mars was conjunct B's draconic Mars, and they got together with a transiting full moon there.

[FruityLlama]

Ava

I like that analogy of Draconic= lunar, Tropical= solar! Makes a lot of sense really, but do you think draconic energy needs conscious tapping into or do you feel it naturally in the undercurrents of interactions and personality etc? I sometimes feel like my tropical chart is who I should be, especially when it comes to relating (N. Aries Venus and Leo Mars).

My draconic moon is at 29 Virgo conjunct Sun @ 2 Libra. The person in question has Dr. Moon @ 1 Libra so right on the mid-point. Their tropical sun is 12* Libra...would you count the same orb allowance for Draconic to natal conjunctions by the way? They also have NN @ 5* Sag, my dr. ASC= 15* Sag. Not sure if that's too wide though...

Also, this person and I have a DW in draconic synastry- conjunction and opposition, didn't notice yesterday. 

[FruityLlama]

I just want to drop this here as well...

A lot of people I have been drawn to have draconic Sun in Aqua it seems. My partner and sister are both dr. Aqua Suns and a few public figures that I've drawn inspiration from are the same.

Aquarius spans my natal 7th, 8th and 9th house- weird!

[lumina]

Ava

I totally could see that, the distinction you made between tropial/ Draco.

ON Venus-Mars.

My Mom`s Draco Venus is conjunct my Dad`s tropical Mars (both on 9 Libra). They got married when my Mom`s tropical Venus had progressed to 9 Libra.
my Dad`s pr Mars was on 10 Libra (rx), and his natal SN is on 8 Libra.

[lumina]

I can`t really say anything about Moon-Moon synastry in Draco; but my best friend and me share a Sun-Moon-DW.

my Draco Sun conjuncts her tropical Moon (Aries)

her Draco Sun conjuncts my (and her husband`s) tropical Moon (Aquarius).

Both, me as well as her husband, are more on the "individualistic" side, which sometimes has been a problem for her, and often in a way intriguing, just as Aries-energy intrigues (as well as challenges me); over the years it became evident that she herself as a strong individualistic streak, and that problems arose most of the times when she tried too much to adapt to circumstances or people who weren`t really "her cup of tea" out of some sense of "that`s how you should behave, adapt, and not doing your own thing, as there are social rules you have to follow" (which is something especially her mother was really big about, the other people`s opinion always more important than personal happiness or just being herself).

Well needless to say that actually she is FAR more individualistic than her husband and me combined. lol It was just buried a little deeper.

it`s difficult to say where I am having Aries energy, but I think when I am looking at myself with honesty, there is a lot of "me me"energy right there, though I`ve been taught to "walk in another person`s shoes before you judge or do something", which my mother admits by now, has probably been a great educational mistake (though she is a bit black and white, of course it is a good thing to develop empathy with others, there is just a limit to anything, even empathy, esp. if it messes with ones own life).

[lumina]

Of course, both, Aries AS Well AS Aqua are quite individualistic anyway.

[Ava]

FruityLlama ,

"Makes a lot of sense really, but do you think draconic energy needs conscious tapping into or do you feel it naturally in the undercurrents of interactions and personality etc? I sometimes feel like my tropical chart is who I should be, especially when it comes to relating (N. Aries Venus and Leo Mars)."

I wish we had more research on draconic. In my own observations and experience, people do exhibit their draconic energy, often more noticeably than their tropical. Draconic can be so automatic that we don't think of it. Or it can be something we started repressing as children and forgot to stop repressing. Or, the tropical and draconic do "merge," and there is consciousness around that fusion, even for people who don't know astrology.

In school I was always ambitious and hell-bent on getting into a good college, establishing a nice career...typical Cap sun. By the time I got out of college I was like, "You know, I'd rather be a stay-at-home mom, have a garden, a place in the country, eat organic food I cooked myself...." Which is totally in line with my 4H NN, Taurus draco sun, Cancer draco moon.

Part of the "route" I took, to reach those conclusions, relied heavily on my tropical luminaries, where the Cap sun was driven enough to stay up all night reading literature assignments, and the Pisces moon was receptive enough to REALLY absorb the message of authors from centuries gone by, especially naturalists, transcendentalists, and even Christian ministers (sermons showed up in my American Literature survey course.)

My draconic sun and moon are conjunct my SN and Saturn respectively, so there is a backward tilt to them, towards the past (SN) and its establishments (Saturn). Once I started living more of that draconic life, with my children in the countryside, picking wild berries and so on, I seem to have slipped even FARTHER back into the past, into the pre-Christian era...into astrology.

Just an anecdote and one way to look at it.

" I sometimes feel like my tropical chart is who I should be, especially when it comes to relating (N. Aries Venus and Leo Mars)."

I can relate. Part of my mind just never shuts up and it's telling me to be more like a Capricorn. "Shut up and do some work, Ava."

"My draconic moon is at 29 Virgo conjunct Sun @ 2 Libra. The person in question has Dr. Moon @ 1 Libra so right on the mid-point. Their tropical sun is 12* Libra...would you count the same orb allowance for Draconic to natal conjunctions by the way?"

I should have known that, more or less. I knew you were a SN solar eclipse person. Well I think draco placements on the cardinal Aries Point axis are going to stand out, beyond just the sign, there would be more of a fated energy, possibly something unusual about it? I think of that Virgo-Cusp in line with the Secret Language book series, it can be perfectionistic, VERY attuned to beauty, to a sensitive degree. Knowing your career path, and how it's very much about sensitive measurements, and vibrations, I believe that's a great fit.

I'm guessing that if you have this with another person whose draco moon is in the same place, you are both similarly attentive to sound, voices, tone, especially when conveying emotion (moon) and therefore might find it soothing and pleasing, to simply talk to each other?

I didn't realize you were asking about draconic moon conjunct draconic moon, though! I thought you meant draco to tropical. For me that's a different story, draco moon to draco moon.

Not sure about orbs. I think it's meaningful to even have things in the same sign.

Pls don't quote

[Ava]

Re: draconic moon conjunct draconic moon

I have this with my best friend, in Cancer. We are more like sisters, grew up next to each other, and I basically moved into her house in high school. We'd stay up all night laughing and then go to school tired.

She has a better memory than I do, so she is like the memory bank of my childhood and will talk about things I've long forgotten.

[Ava]

Apr 7, 2022 5:32:39 GMT lumina said:

it`s difficult to say where I am having Aries energy, but I think when I am looking at myself with honesty, there is a lot of "me me"energy right there, though I`ve been taught to "walk in another person`s shoes before you judge or do something", which my mother admits by now, has probably been a great educational mistake

That is so interesting!

I think it's similar for me with a draco Cancer moon, natal Pisces moon. In childhood I was never allowed to feel sorry for myself. "Consider how your crying affects all these people around you who have no time for you, okay?"

Aqua and Pisces moons are similar with their attunement towards "the greater good." 

Edit: Maybe I'm exaggerating, I mean I don't have a perfect memory...but that was the feeling I was left with, or the lesson I took from it.

[lumina]

Ava

it is interesting about how those childhood ideas shaped us.

Well I was allowed to cry IF I had a good reason to. Like whenever I was crying my mom would ask me why I was crying, waht the reason was, and if it was a good enough reason. So much Virgo energy in her. lol

I ams ure it was not like that ALL the time, but it`s what I remembered, sometimes it is interesting what children pick up and remember later I guess.

Anyway also being quiet often got associated with being "sad", and that was not really allowed (well in the sense that she would start to inquire the why and how she failed as a mother and stuff like that). Same with being "angry". (because we should understand other people first and foremost, and then you cannnot be angry anymore).



Well actually when I lost a lot of weight that is what happened, and I had not been prepared, how close to the surface emotions would be. Like those emotions like anger and sadness would just surge up and then be gone just as quickly again, I learned to just accept that, and actually that is whaat I told my mother when she was getting all worried because I was "emotional", just telling her that sometimes an emotion does not need a Why to have a right of existence, it just is there because it is. period. And then it will fade again. Just some sort of psychological cleansing mechanism.

Not sure she sees it the same way, but she accepted it.


Anyway just also want to say I have a great mother, both my parents are very amazing, in how they support all their children (and some who are not their own) throughout the years, in very practical terms. What I just mentioned is not to put anyone in a bad light, but just a learning process I´ve been going through, and sometimes have to remind myself of.

The thing is that emotionally I am actually not that placid as people apparently like to see in me, the placid surface is the result of very different emotions, and they can change very quickly, so that maybe people dont even notice.

[FruityLlama]

Ava

Thank you so much for your detailed response, I've been reading it and digesting...

I will say that the symbolism of the virgo-libra cusp makes a lot of sense for myself and this other person. We are both musical- they more so actually but have similar tastes and perceptions of things.

I will keep coming back to touch on some other points though. My partner is in hospital at the moment. Have spent all day waiting around and so have been reading and digesting but can't properly formulate at the moment!

I did want to ask though what your thoughts on trines and sextiles are with either draconic to draconic or draconic to natal synastry?

[Ava]

Oh no FruityLlama , I hope he's alright!

Will reply more later.

---

Edit (later)

So interesting that you and the other person are musical. My husband's Jupiter is on that cusp and he loves music and is sensitive to sound.

For now just experimentally I do consider draconic synastry in the same light as tropical.

I mean I couldn't really figure out why two of my children have their draconic suns around 20 Virgo, but that is trine my draco sun in Taurus, trine my mother's and her father's draconic suns in Capricorn, their other grandmother's draconic sun in Capricorn, and her mother's draconic sun in Capricorn.  

Welcome to the draco earth trine family.

[FruityLlama]

Ava

He is doing ok thank you, had to have some emergency surgery- got an infection which was horrible. All good now though thank goodness!

That's interesting about the draconic trines in your family. This person and I have a lot of trines between the draconic charts but also draconic - natal synastry too and wondered if that was important.

My partner and I have similar connections. In fact, funnily enough my partner's natal moon is conjunct this person's natal too- they're both early Gem moons. Weird!

I'm going through some synastries between me and people I admire musically and I'm noticing quite a few have something in an earth or water sign in the early degrees, thereby either trining or sextiling my natal luminaries.

Also to add, whilst I don't know my fathers' TOB, it is possible his draconic moon is also early Gem... he also has mercury conjunct neptune in early Libra in the draconic chart. 

[FruityLlama]

Apr 9, 2022 11:19:09 GMT Ava said:

Welcome to the draco earth trine family.

Haha thank you, its great to be part of the club!! 

[lumina]

First of FruityLlama

I am sorry you and your partner had such problems, but hoping you are both well again!


As for trines in Draconic synastry (though I have only reflected on the Draco-Draco level, not Draco-tropical), I`ve been thinking about that last year or so; while we do - possibly rightfully - focus on conjunctions and oppositions, trines might have their merit or meaning too. Just maybe a tad different. 

My thought was that while with a conjunction or opposition we are directly ON each other`s paths or the paths being "overlayed" for a while at least (I mean the basis of all of it is the nodal axis), tight trines between Draco planets, maybe could mean that while the paths are not necessarily "identical/ the same", we could support each other in whatever we need to accomplish or where we are called to. 

Like someone who does not share the same "mission in life", but can encourage us, support us, accompany us, and maybe even more effectively so (as supportive influence), BECAUSE it is not their "mission or evolutionary goal" directly, so those "trine-partners" may have a good view on us or our path or what we do BECAUSE they are not too closely "chained" (I mean that not that negatively btw) to that path themselves. 

Not sure I can really bring across what I mean. 

But a while ago I was looking through a couple`s Draconic synastry (they are married by now and have a child), and was surprised to not find any conjunctions between their Draconic charts. 


Instead their Suns and Mercuries were tightly trine; their Mars-positions were in trine relationship (with an orb of 6 degree), their Venuses were widely sextile. 
One`s Mercury also exactly trine the others Venus. 

Or more condensed: 

The man`s Draco Mercury-Pluto-conjunction (2-1 Pisces) trine the woman`s Mercury-Venus-conjunction (1-0 Cancer). 

BTW their daughter`s (born on 11th november last year btw) Draco Venus falls onto 2 Scorpio, completing that Grand trine with her parents on the Draconic level. 

This is just too noteable for me to NOT notice!



I haven`t really looked too much into the trine-factor in Draconic charts, but this was a synastry that seemed to rely on trines in particular. Also it fits, they are both performers/ singers, very communicative people socializing a lot with a seemingly tightnit friendsgroup (judging by their social media involvement), and there is basically no difference between working and friend`s circle as it seems. Before getting married they were also having their own cabaret-program, when the pandemic started they were basically the first ones in Germany (at least in musical theatre) setting up cameras in their living room and invent the online streaming (I think for the first half year they did it 3 times a week!). I can see the Mercury-factor a lot in that. 

Well the woman`s birthday is 21st june, so we know that her tropical Sun must be conjunct her Draco Mercury-Venus, which might be the hook, however that is within her own chart, it still is a trine relation to HIS chart. 


But yeah, just describing that in detail, cause I think it fits what I have been thinking about trines, how they flow effortlessly and supporting each other, in this case working in the same field, but doing it in different ways and on different areas. 

[lumina]

BTW my Mum and Dad have that too. 

my Dad`s Draco Venus-Jupiter (falling onto his tropical Sun and my Mom`s Draco DESC) trines her Draco Mars (on his tropical Juno-Mars and her tropical Saturn and my tropical MC). 

Well it is a bit more than that actually, as my Dad`s Draco Venus-Jupiter also opposes his Draco Pluto on my Mom`s Draco Uranus-ASC
and her Draco Mars opposes her own tropical Jupiter, and conjuncts - widely- her tropical Saturn. 


Well and then of course ther eis the much closer overlay of her Draco Venus to my Dads tropical-Mars-SN on her tropical Saturn, so it is not "just" the trine. lol

[FruityLlama]

lumina

Oh thank you! <3

That's really interesting- I've felt the same way about trines but wondered why there was little mention of them when it comes to this sort of stuff, and also general composites as well. It's all just about conjunctions and oppositions, but trines have always given me the impression that two people are complementing each others' lives without being too dependent or overly involved...if that makes sense.

With the person that I have moon-moon in draconic synastry, we also have DW Venus-Mars (opposition and conjunction), but in natal to draconic, my dr. venus sextiles their n. mars, and my dr. mars trines their n. venus. Both their draconic and natal venus trines my sun and very widely my moon, as well as my draconic Jupiter.

My dr. mercury also conjuncts their n. mercury. Sorry I'm just rambling, I keep noticing cool things about this synastry. This person has inspired me recently and given me some confidence in following a passion I once had when I was a late teen-early twenties.

Just reading what you mentioned about your parents and the fact that my dads TOB is unknown....I wonder if its possible to use draconics for rectification?

[lumina]

FruityLlama

"ut wondered why there was little mention of them when it comes to this sort of stuff,"
I think the main reason is that despite Draconics being a very old method, there has been surprisingly little mentioning of it/ researching it in general, and astrologers aren`t even really sure HOW they work (just THAT they work), so they concentrate on conjunction and opposition. 

Also my personal take is that the conjunction/ opposition (and possibly the square) are more "pressing", and have a sense of urgency about them that the trine lacks. Might have something to do with human nature. We tend to ignore things that are easy and flowing and take those harmonious stuff for granted or do not see it as "special", so we might simply not pay attention. 


and also general composites as well. It's all just about conjunctions and oppositions,
In terms of composites there is a reason for it, as only the conjunctions and oppositions point to certain alignments either in the individual natals or the synastry. As whenever you have the same aspect coming up in individual charts or a DW in synastry (it needs to be the same aspect though, not just any aspect), then it will result in a conjunction or opposition in the composite, if the aspects are in complementary phases. 

For instance if someone has Mercury square Pluto as waxing aspect and the other has Mercury square Pluto as waning aspect, the composite will show a conjunction or opposition between Mercury and Pluto in the composite. 

Should the aspect phase get repeated, the aspect will show up the same in the composite. which happens for P and me, we both have a waxing Venus-Pluto-square in our natal charts, so it shows up in the composite as well (as a square). 

I do believe that we definitely should pay attention to the other aspects in the composite too, esp. if they are the result of such a repeated aspect, either in natal charts or in natal synastry. 

Though the others also will have something to tell us, so I might start with conjunctions/ oppositions in the composite (because they so conveniently point us to major themes in the individual charts or synastries) but from that other aspects definitely play a role, and honestly speaking I haven`t really seen astrologers focusing ONLY on conjunctions/ oppositions for analysis of the composite. 



but trines have always given me the impression that two people are complementing each others' lives without being too dependent or overly involved...if that makes sense.


my dr. venus sextiles their n. mars, and my dr. mars trines their n. venus. 
Hmm, to be honest for now I refrain from putting too much emphasis on those aspects from tropical to Draconic level, just because of prioritizing. It is still the direct overlays that point to the most pressing points and where the two dimensions sort of are locked into each other, like a bit of a wormhole where you can move from one into the other. 

The other aspect may have their merit and meaning totally, but I would see them always against the backdrop of that overlay. With that I mean, if there is a conjunction from Draco to tropical AND THEN there are planets in either dimension trine or square or sextile, I certainly would pay a lot of attention to that. 

But I wouldn`t really want to go through a list of isolated aspects, because honestly I would not have a clue where or how to begin to interprete those. 


 This person has inspired me recently and given me some confidence in following a passion I once had when I was a late teen-early twenties.

That is so cool!




"ust reading what you mentioned about your parents and the fact that my dads TOB is unknown....I wonder if its possible to use draconics for rectification?"
I think it is just as good for that as any other method, maybe even better. I could imagine that very often there would be overlays with the angles in really close synastries, just as on the tropical level. People who have something to do with each other usually have strong aspects with the angles, the luminaries and/ or nodal axis. That is where the core starts, and from then on of course we branch out. 

But let`s say  a Mercury conjunct Venus without the core-backing up of the luminaries/ angles/ nodal axis, would be sweet for sure, but possibly not really reach down deep and affecting people to the core. Just like sugar is really sweet and pleasant, but it will not provide the nutrition you need for a long time. 

However the same Mercury conjunct Venus coupled with a synastry involving luminaries and nodal axis, will probably tell a bit of a different story, or an extended and deepened version of the story, the sweetness that is expression of a deep core connection, or so. 


And whatever touches/ conjuncts the angles gets "loud/ energized". I think Dawn Bodrogi once wrote it that it is like a megaphone directed on those planets, you just can`t help but notice those. 

I wonder if maybe the same goes for the nodal axis and the luminaries as well. The Sun just provides so much energy to whatever it touches (I have different experiences and observations concerning this than medieval astrology and their take on that the Sun burns and lets disappear what she touches, I have always experienced it as a lot of energy being shot at the aspecting planet, so it gets really intensified, of course then you cannot ignore it any longer and let`s hope you are ready to deal with the energy of that planet, cause as long as the Sun person is around, you won`t be able to escape that planet in your chart it touches). 

As for the Moon, I am not quite sure yet, but the Moon is reflective, so maybe we get aware of those planets in our charts by the other person sort of reflecting it, don`t know for sure in this instance. 


Anyway I guess I am starting to ramble. lol

[Ava]

Apr 15, 2022 13:16:58 GMT FruityLlama said:

I wonder if its possible to use draconics for rectification?

I'd say definitely consider draconics, especially if you can obtain an estimated birth time some other way.

My chart is rectified and it works pretty well, but at first I was stumped about my draco ASC landing @ 17 Sag. Then I realized my mother died and my first child were born with tr sun @ 17 Sag.

With my rectified chart, my IC is conjunct my own draconic Mars in Libra. I've joked that Mars in Libra should be on my family's astrological coat of arms because so many of us have it, either in tropical or draconic.

These aren't definitive proofs on their own, but I think with every rectification we're just aiming to build a case for a certain time using a number of facts. Then we can make predictions using the rectified chart, and see if they start coming true. That's actually worked for me.

For most people that can be a time-consuming and frustrating process. In my case, I'm somewhat obsessive, and fortunate enough to have a word-of-mouth birth time and then several people in my family with planets conjunct my angles.