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Post by geminiblues on Oct 20, 2021 4:42:49 GMT
So, I'm approaching the age when my second Saturn return is on the horizon. I see so much angst expressed by folks approaching their first. I have to say, the transit of the prior house for me was (and so far is again) much more troubling than the return. Last time, the return was the beginning of a career and stability in living arrangements, while the transit through the prior sign was anything but. Maybe it's because my Saturn is so late in the 4th and in the sign after the sign on the cusp of the 4th?
How did you all experience your Saturn return? Did it disrupt or stabilize for you? Did it focus on your house placement or generally throughout your life?
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Post by Ava on Oct 20, 2021 13:05:32 GMT
Thank you for the topic geminiblues . I hope your second Saturn Return kicks off a good phase of life. Not sure if I ever looked at my Saturn Return chart before. Funny timing...the current full moon squares my Saturn Return full moon. July 21, 2005, 1:10 am Isn't that beautiful? Angular Saturn-Chiron opposition conjunct a full moon. What could go wrong? lol Yeah it's no wonder I've stayed married with sun-Saturn on the IC, Juno on the ASC, and DSC conjunct my natal NN. Pluto opposes Vesta-Atropos on my father's nodes and less than a year later his health failed (with tr Saturn @ 6 Leo exact on his moon, and conjunct my ASC.) Depending on how much time is allotted to the Saturn Return, I may have had a very archetypal one, with the loss of my father. Tr Saturn @ 24 Leo when he crossed over - Saturn still in my natal first house. Saturn Return Jupiter exactly conjunct my natal Pluto.
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Post by geminiblues on Oct 20, 2021 21:51:23 GMT
Hmm, for what it's worth, my dad passed when Saturn was in my 8th (Gemini, my sun sign) and my mother just after it entered my 1st (Scorpio).
7n my dad's case, it may have been pretty close to my sun his mars which are at least loosely conjunct. For the other, pretty much everything when to hell when Saturn crossed my Asc. I think in amazement that I lived through it all. Sa it was, it took a toll on my health.
Stress, Breakfast of Champions™
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Post by Ava on Oct 21, 2021 15:37:26 GMT
Yeah, easy to imagine that would take a toll on your health. Coincidentally I also had tr Saturn conjunct sun while losing a parent, tr Saturn stationary @ 18 Cap, separating from my sun < 3° orb, in my mother's final months.
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Post by Ava on Oct 22, 2021 20:05:10 GMT
This just came out today and I find it fascinating. I don't see how all the pieces go together, it seems like a junk drawer of random ideas, but I like to wonder about it all....
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Post by Ava on Oct 9, 2023 19:16:35 GMT
Lyrics remind me of the first Saturn Return....
"Thirty years of running, thirty years of searchin' Thirty years of hurting, thirty years of pain Thirty years of fearful, thirty years of anger Thirty years of empty, thirty years of shame Thirty years of broken, thirty years of anguish Thirty years of hopeless, thirty years of (Hey) Thirty years of never, thirty years of maybe Thirty years of later, thirty years of fake Thirty years of hollow, thirty years of sorrow Thirty years of darkness, thirty years of (Nate) Thirty years of baggage, thirty years of sadness Thirty years of stagnant, thirty years of chains Thirty years of anxious, thirty years of suffering Thirty years of torment, thirty years of (Wait) Thirty years of bitter, thirty years of lonely Thirty years of pushing everyone away ('Way) (You'll never evolve) I know I can change (We are not enough) We are not the same (You don't have the heart) You don't have the strength (You don't have the will) You don't have the faith (You'll never be loved, you'll never be safe) (Might as well give up) Not running away (You don't have the guts) You're the one afraid (I'm the one in charge) I'm taking the— (No) I'm taking the Reins"
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Post by Ava on Oct 9, 2023 19:46:30 GMT
I was looking into the (astrological) future last night, checking my secondary progressions.
It's amazing to me how many progressions are perfecting along with meaningful transits around the time of my second Saturn return. I should check my first Saturn Return to see if there was a situation like that. (?)
But first, I was looking at my perfected pr Mercury-Mars trine in March 2035 -- noticed transiting Saturn will be @ 28 Cancer between my progressed Saturn (26 Cancer) and natal Saturn (0 Leo).
My progressed personal planets at that time, with transits:
15 Pisces sun, conjunct tr SN @ 14 Pisces (conjunct natal moon) 12 Taurus moon, apex of yod with Neptune and Pluto 24 Aqua Mercury, trine Mars exact to the minute, sextile 25 Aries Jupiter-Chiron (conjunct transiting Jupiter-Neptune 21 Aries) 19 Aqua Venus conjunct transiting Pluto 19 Aqua, squaring my Scorpio NN (bringing the dispositors of my nodes together, Venus and Pluto) 24 Gem Mars, mentioned above, also conjunct pr MC @ 23 Gem
Very moony. Cancer Saturn ruled by the moon, and here it's exalted and at the apex of a yod. Sun on transiting (lunar, of course) south node, conjunct natal moon. Venus squaring nodes.
A few months later it's my actual Saturn return in Leo (final pass of three): May 19, 2035. Most exact aspect in my progressed chart for that particular date is pr moon 14 Taurus exact on pr SN. Though that air/fire mini triangle around 25 Aqua, Aries, Gemini will still be effect. Overall it looks cohesive so I'm going to try and be optimistic.
My progressed Venus will be sticking with transiting Pluto for an annoying amount of time so hopefully by then I'll just be used to it.
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Post by Ava on Oct 9, 2023 21:03:48 GMT
Don't mind me, just looking for patterns.
Considering the pain and sensitivity of many Saturn Returns...not sure if I wrote about my first one here and deleted it or simply talked about my father dying.
2003 - a sort of major argument with my dad 2004 - my son was born, bought a house in the country, felt extremely busy with three kids and two houses, reconciling with my dad 2005 - actual Saturn Return July 21 this year, with tr sun on my Saturn. This was between two hard years before and after. 2006 - my father was ill for most of this, hospitalized or in a care facility, and died early 2007
My progressed chart at the time of the Saturn Return features pr sun 15.50 Aqua square pr NN 17.00 Scorpio. Transiting Neptune 16 Aqua Rx. Honestly that wasn't a bad time. My pr moon was in mid-Aries, conjunct natal Jupiter and transiting NN.
As my pr sun-square-nodes tightened up, it did just get harder and harder, approaching my father's death. Maybe transiting Neptune there represents how much I was mentally preoccupied with spirituality (at a crisis point).
He and I had sun square nodes in our composite chart and it was exact. Strange that he passed when my progressed chart echoed that.
Pls don't quote
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Post by lumina on Oct 10, 2023 8:22:18 GMT
It's amazing to me how many progressions are perfecting along with meaningful transits around the time of my second Saturn return. Meaningful Times ahead! Also have you checked your Shadow Saturn Return? Anything important then?
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Post by lumina on Oct 10, 2023 8:24:37 GMT
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Post by Ava on Oct 10, 2023 20:27:23 GMT
Thank you! Excerpts: Yes, agreed, my Shadow transit was more obviously difficult because I was in mourning. Also I'd had a miscarriage in 2006 which didn't seem like a big deal because I was only a few weeks pregnant, but there were unexpected lingering physical and emotional effects that I had to process. Then in late 2007 I was pregnant with my fourth child. 5 Virgo, his Saturn 3 Virgo, my SA Saturn when he was born Easiest birth and such a dreamy baby but that was a very bad case of "baby blues." Edit: Looking back I think my life was just HARD from age 14-31, a little over 16 years of misery and losing both parents and both parents-in-law, all of whom died slowly and in heartbreaking ways. Plus other things. My life has been much easier since my Saturn Return. Much of the inevitable pain was over, early in my life.
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Post by Ava on Oct 10, 2023 21:06:02 GMT
June 7 2040
5 Libra, transiting Saturn, stationing direct that day 5 Libra, my solar arc Saturn
No major aspects (whew) and sun trine moon in secondary progression (20 Pisces sun, 17 Cancer moon). Maybe a good day, though the sun will be right on my natal Mars.
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Post by lumina on Oct 11, 2023 9:05:08 GMT
AvaIt's Just heartbreaking what you've Had to Go through at such a Young age and still you came Out AS such a compassionate Kind and strong Soul. 🤗
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Post by Ava on Oct 11, 2023 10:19:07 GMT
Aw thanks lumina, right back atcha.
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Post by lumina on Oct 11, 2023 10:34:01 GMT
I havent really checked in depth but I remember that my first Saturn return happened almost exact to the day I moved into my First Apartment away from Home and Had to do "grown Up stuff", Work, Deal with taxes and Bills and householdstuff and being very much in my own, though there was a tight knit core group of fellow teachers in Training also Stranded in that town at the end of the world (Well Just at the dutch Border. Lol).
Also got reinfected with the theatre Virus, so there was that.
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Post by lumina on Oct 11, 2023 10:36:00 GMT
Oh Ava my Saturn return also Had a sun-saturn conjunction. My next one will have a Venus-Mars- conjunction, both interestingly have a late Scorpio -AsC.
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Post by lumina on Oct 11, 2023 10:49:15 GMT
Actually I might have misremembered. The Saturn Return happened a year after I moved, but IT was the hotphase of working towards the Exam, actually my best friend got married 4 days Prior to my Saturn Return and Ivhad to do a speech.lol also attended the only classmate Meeting ever and underwent Some real thinking and reflecting about my "place" in Life and that Sort of Thing.
Attending the theatre Play of a fellow teachers in Training prompted me to read quite a bit of Tennessee Williams.
That year was Like a preparation to important "Meetings" to Take place, seemingly at random. (2005-2006).
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Post by Ava on Oct 11, 2023 11:35:24 GMT
Hi lumina , Your Saturn Return sounds nice! Where was Saturn in the return chart? I guess the conjunction to the sun matches being more independent (sun's pretty independent), standing out (giving that speech), returning to a fascination with the stage (again, sun/illumination)? My sun-Saturn on the IC, opp moon-chiron, square Mars. That chart's still in effect! I also remembered something about my actual Saturn Return (2005). Well my son was born in October 2004, his natal Saturn @ 26.59 Cancer is conjunct mine out of sign (less than 4°) and my pr Saturn then was 28 Cancer Rx. Saturn turned Rx @ 27 Cancer a few weeks after he was born, and I think it was within that time period that I became pretty severely depressed (baby blues again)...not severe compared to other people with clinical depression I'm sure. I wasn't suicidal. But for me personally it was the most I've ever matched that clinical diagnosis. There were times when I've been extremely sad, morose, dark, but in this case it was just a flat mood where nothing at all made me even slightly happy. It's one of the only times I didn't even pretend, and I was even offending people by how disinterested and distant I sounded. I didn't mean to offend them. I just genuinely did not have the energy to keep up. Fortunately this didn't last long. In May 2006, transiting Saturn was on my ASC, separating from natal Saturn and moving into my 1st house. Tr Saturn exactly on my father's moon. Old friends of ours (really old, in their 90s) took us out for lunch. As the man was leaving, he took my hand firmly to shake it, looked me straight in the eye and declared, "I will see you again." I got in the car and started crying uncontrollably, which is not like me at all, and my husband and I were both mystified. I said I didn't know what it was. Sure I was sad he was so old, and I might NOT see him, but I was used to him being old. I think it was the next day that I learned my father had had a stroke, and he'd been hospitalized for days before my sister told us. Maybe that was some kind of psychic crying spell. Indeed, I did see that old man again, after my father was gone. He kept his promise. That had quite an effect on me emotionally. Well and his sun in mid-Aqua was conjunct my pr sun and tr Neptune at that time. On my sun-moon midpoint.
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Post by lumina on Oct 11, 2023 12:27:31 GMT
Ava this story is amazing! So in line with your 8th house Pisces-Moon, too. It`s those things that make me believe we are not living in a random universe. But also of course so heartbreaking, and yes the SAturn Returns are still in effect. I do wonder if there is a timing, a clock to when certain parts of it get activated throughout the years. Like progressions as you pointed out, perfecting, or possibly combined with major Transits setting off certain bits in the Saturn Return, or in any Return chart really. Just wondering though. Glad that you got through that depression though, quite a feat, considering all the pain you had to suffer. And it does sound extra hard, sun-saturn on the IC, certainly bringing family into this, and then the T-square with Moon-Chiron-Mars, ugh. Heavy. Also possibly mirroring your natal Moon-Mars. Well it might be easier to show you, this is my Saturn Return, still ongoing of course (until 2034) Saturn in the 8th house, like it is in my natal chart (Ruler of 2nd house in 8th in my natal, and quinkunx Moon in 2nd, trine Jupiter in 3rd and roughly conjunct Vertex-Eros on 21 Cancer, and well that is where my far Sun/moon-mp is, and squares Chiron on 20 Aries in 4th - I do like the trine to Jupiter however, Jupiter disposits all my Yang planets and Saturn, using traditional rulership, disposits Moon and Venus, I guess I have a harder time with the feminine principle and tend to over idealize the masculine, with that Jupiter-Neptune vs Saturn-Moon theme, and well you asked somewhere if I consider the mutual reception between Jupiter and Neptune, and sure I do. I think this Jupiter-Neptune-square is far more personalized in my chart than it might be for other people, with Jupiter dispositing my Sag - planets, as well as ruling the ASC, and Neptune being conjunct the ASC, and making this exchange between 1st and 3rd house, binding them together, and adding to that the inclusing of the nodal axis, being conjunct Neptune, disposited by Jupiter and also squared by Jupiter - it probably is one of the most defining characteristics of my chart - not saying it makes things easy, but that Jupiter-Neptune is huge)
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Post by lumina on Oct 11, 2023 12:30:38 GMT
BTW ignore PRiapus-Lilith, I just learned that apparently at least Priapus (i) is astronomical wrong, and probably the true version of LIlith-PRiapus are the real ones, which makes things a little easier, as they are on an exact axis like the nodal axis. But I will have to relisten to that video as I was halfasleep yesterday. lol
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