The absurdity of the Mars hard aspect theme in my family

[Violets]

With Mercury doing its lovely retrograde dance right the late degrees of Aries, I have to give another big WTF out to the Universe regarding the hard Mars aspects that are a theme in my blood line synastries. 

I have: 
Cap Mars at 26 Capricorn

My mom has: 
Sun at 28 Cancer
Moon at 25 Capricorn

My dad has: 
Mars at 28 Cancer
Mercury at 25 Libra

My oldest son has (yes, he has a very challenging chart...our youngest does not, so I guess it is what it is):
Jupiter at 25 Aries
Mercury/Venus at 29 Aries
Moon at 29 Libra

Baby has:
Uranus at 24 Aries

For Mutable Mars delights, we have:

Baby:
Mars/Saturn 8/9 Sagittarius

Me:
Sun 6 Pisces
Moon 5 Virgo
Nodes 5 Sag/Gemini

My husband:
Mercury 7 Virgo
Saturn 4 Gemini
Neptune 0 Sagittarius

Honestly, just Wtf... 
Just thought I'd share my weird Mars theme here. 

By itself, my Mars mostly just minds its own business, making a wide, out of sign square to my IC/Uranus that can usually be dealt with constructively with enough time for meditation and working outside.

But it's a weird theme, in addition to the fact that (I've mentioned in other posts) my husband's Uranus/MC, my Pluto, and our oldest son's Saturn are all conjunct as well.

[Violets]

Weirdly, our family composite doesn't look nearly as horrid as I would have thought...
Nevermind the random asteroids I have plugged in there. 

Interesting to note is that our composite NN is conjunct my natal NN, and our Moon is conjunct my natal Neptune.
IC is conjunct my husband's Moon and my Vertex
Sun is conjunct my Karma.

Dsc and Vertex are conjunct my Venus and baby's Moon.

[Ava]

Hmm, that's weird, I agree.

You have sun novile Mars natally, a positive aspect, so it's curious that you're in a jungle of Mars hard aspects. Though your family has sun trine Mars.

Your Mars is disposited by a Cancer Saturn so maybe that's how your family (Cancer) came to reflect Mars difficulties (Saturn).

[Violets]

Ava, you just gave me a bunch of new terms to look up, because I have no idea what you just said, lol. I need to learn more from you guys. 😂

[Violets]

Aw, we have a Yod with Venus at the apex! 💕

[Ava]

Apr 27, 2017 22:40:13 GMT Violets said:

Ava , you just gave me a bunch of new terms to look up, because I have no idea what you just said, lol. I need to learn more from you guys. 😂

Oh! It's easy, novile is a 40° aspect. It's important because the 9th Harmonic chart is geared around it:

john-sandbach.blogspot.com/2009/12/novile-aspect.html

Your sun and Mars are novile so they would show as conjunct in your 9th harmonic chart (which is the chart associated with the marriage partner). 

Dispositor, sometimes called ruler. Your Cap Mars is ruled by --- disposited by --- Saturn, because Saturn rules all Cap planets. Then your Cancer Saturn would be disposited by your moon, etc.

[Violets]

Ava thanks 💕
Okay yes, that makes perfect sense, although I still get dispositors/rulers a bit confused, but I'll figure it out. If I remember that my Mars is disposited by Saturn because it rules Capricorn, that's a solid foundation for me to go back and reference as needed.

So then my Moon and Jupiter are likewise novile, as my Moon is at 5 Virgo and Jupiter at 25 Pisces?

There seems to also be a Mars/Pluto/Moon theme with us, as well as Pluto/Venus, but those tend to be trines, thankfully. 😅

[Ava]

Yes, your Venus and Jupiter are quadra-novile, which is a trine plus an additional 40°.

You're right on it.

I'm glad they're trines!

Now I'm really curious about your 9th harmonic chart, but I think that would be pressing the issue. Maybe some other day, some other thread, we'll get around to discussing it. I had a thread on 9th harmonic at the other place; lumina got me hooked.

[Violets]

I looked at mine once, but I was confused about what it was supposed to indicate.

I'll take another look, out of curiosity.

I should also add that while most of those are trines, my Pluto does square my husband's Moon, but his Pluto is trine my Mars, and my Pluto is sextile his Venus/Vertex/Sun. His stellium there is also trine my Venus and NN.

We're such a bunch of weirdos, hahaha... 😂

[lumina]

Ava

ah the 9th harmonic charts - you reminded me....
BTW interestingly most western astrologers consider the 9th house as the house of the second marriage. (of course added to the general asessment of the 7th house, it does not lose its impact).

I find my 9th harmonic chart fairly interesting mostly because of this:

DESC 3°11 Sagittarius
Saturn 2°36 Sag
Juno 2°43 Sag
my name 2°50 Gemini (right on the ASC - I just thought how hilarious that is finding my own name conjunct the ASC. lol, yes it`s me. ).


Violets
as for the actual meaning, there are some views out there (which have certain merging points of course).

in Vedic astrology it is the chart of the soul, the marriage partner and the second half of life - what you become or evolve into after your Saturn-Return mostly, maybe even only after the progressed lunar return, which is at around 36 I think?


Some say it`s a "snapshot of the inner Self"
www.astrologyforthesoul.com/qyzh.html



Some relate it to joy and happiness. (the kind that happens because of you having found your meaning or lifephilosophy)
www.bobmarksastrologer.com/harmonics32.1.html


David Cochrane puts it like this (and he uses the 9th harmonic chart a lot it seems)

"The 9th harmonic indicates the marriage partner, or ideal
marriage partner. The fruit of one’s labor. Becoming the
father or mother of some area of study or development (Addey).
It indicates our capacity for joy. happiness, and peace
(Hamblin) or how we can be at peace (Bob Marks). It is the
completion and the end of a cycle that is destined to occur
(Jay). "The 9th Harmonic is the fruit of the tree: it is both the
chart of the soul mate and the chart of the soul itself. Additionally,
astrologer Addey, father of harmonics, said the 9th
also represents some particular life work towards which you
are heading, whether we know it or not" (Delphine Jay from
www.aquarius-atlanta.com/aug04/harmonic.shtml).
The 1/9 aspect indicates problems that can be overcome, and
the ability to unlock constrictions, and thus be a catalyst of
self-enhancement (Godefrey). The 9th harmonic seeks acceptance
and inclusion in a larger community (Cochrane)"

www.astrosoftware.com/harmonicfirst32.pdf


In his book he tells how he asked an INdian woman once about that in her culture, and she said that marriage is so important in their culture not just in terms of a one-to-one-relationship, but in finding one`s place in society and contributing to it. A give and take, and a feeling of bonding with an individual (the marriage partner) within a good social environment.
Which is actually pretty cool for the 9th house symbolism in astrology.

In the 7th we are getting married, in the 8th we are living our couplehood with all difficulties and all perks of course, too, but it is a two-people-thing, but in the 9th we step out as a couple and present ourselves to our immediate environment, our social surroundings and culture. (which is I think why the 9th house was considered the house of marriage especially in a legal sense. Official legal marriage papers or sometimes divorce papers of course. lol)



MY personal take on this, I put down in the erm... other place :


"My personal take on it is that it represents happiness in the term of contentment or satisfaction, that is being achieved by getting the feeling of being part of something larger, hence it also relates to the community, about how we contribute and how we feel we belong. Of course that could be the twosome, but usually it is more than that. It instills a feeling of meaning and meaningfulness, like finding a (practical) purpose in life."

I do have to expand this view a bit though, and include the marital aspects, as it started to make sense to me honestly. But marriage not in the sense of a strictly You-and-me-passionate-affair, but in terms of the (hopefully most) compatible partner to build and share a meaningful life with. Has actually a lot to do with compatible life-concepts and philosophies as well.

[Ava]

Thank you for explaining, lumina !

I checked my 9th harmonic chart again last night and felt like....



I've got Pluto @ 15 Cap, right on my sun, apex of a Thor's Hammer with Venus and Uranus. 

More to say on the other thread...

Violets

Wow, so much Pluto for you two! Sounds nice, though....more positive than negative. 

For what it's worth, I also seem to attract Mars hard aspects in my life, like I just remembered that my husband and I have sun square Mars in composite (that's a real joy) and my Mars is square my siblings' Plutos. 

Well your Mars is exalted and mine is out of bounds so maybe this is the Universe telling us we have to give Mars lots of exercise or else it's wasted potential. lol

[lumina]

I once read hard Mars aspects are actually needed to start that initial spark. If there are just trines and sextiles, nothing would ever happen (those are great though to keep the machine well oiled and going of course, once the initial spark has well sparked). (hard aspects means conjunctions, squares and opposition, possibly also semisquares and sesisquares to a lesser degree)

[Violets]

My 9th harmonic is *okay*... But my husband's is pretty swell, with a Star of David as well as a mystic rectangle. I do have Mars trine Sun in my 9th.

lumina, you ARE your soulmate! 😅
That's actually pretty nifty, really.

Ava, that gif... 😂
Sort of how I feel when I look at mine too, like "Well that was kind of anti-climactic..." 😑

[lumina]

Violets

I want to see your 9th harmonic chart and your husband`s. I am curious now.

And of course I am my own soulmate. I mean how horrible if I were not, after all I have to live with myself until forever....

[Violets]

lumina seriously.

Okay, let's post our charts! 😁

[Violets]

Okay, here's my less than fascinating 9th chart, with my husband's next to it.



I find it interesting to compare our 9th charts with our kids' natal charts. I have Mars trine Pluto in mine, which our oldest has in his natal, and my husband has Venus trine Pluto in his, which our baby has in his natal. His Karma/MC is conjunct baby's natal Saturn/Mars, and my natal NN, and our oldest's Vertex. His Circe (yes I pay a lot of attention to her for reasons I'm not entirely sure of) is conjunct my natal Circe, and he has Juno conjunct Hekate, lol. Interesting little things I notice when I look at these charts...

[lumina]

I find your 9th harmonic actually pretty fascinating. You have Moon-Jupiter on the DESC, that is awesome. Full capacity to have a fulfilling happy relationship to your partner.

Venus conjunct Ceres (with trine to Sun): the nurturing caring vibe, so fitting for a mother.

And possibly more, but these were the ones getting my eye.

Your Mars trine Pluto is too wide though, in harmonic charts, other aspects count but they have to have a much more narrow orb, trine gets 3 degrees at most.

Your husband has actually both, Mars-Pluto (opposition) and Venus-Pluto (trine).

orbs in harmonic charts are as following:

conjunction: 12 degrees
opposition: 6 degrees
trine: 4 degrees
square: 3 degrees
sextile: 2 degrees
quinkunx: 1 degree


(these are relative orbs which means that no matter what harmonic you look up, the orb stays consistent, and we have to keep in mind that a trine in a 9th harmonic chart is not really a trine in natal, a natal trine would come up as conjunction in 9th harmonic chart, the trine in this 9th harmonic chart is actually a minor aspect, I think something like a 27th harmonic aspect; they do have their merit of course in the gestalt of the chart, but just keeping in mind they are not natal trines).



Your Moon-Jupiter-DESC definitely seems to be a big one in your 9th harmonic, so your husband should relate to that somehow, so your potential for that emotionally expansive relationship would be triggered by him, or could be manifested in the relationship with him.


your Moon is actually also opposing the Sun-Mars, so that is very important too. speaking of your ability to relate to your husband of course, but this is also quite a fiery and passionate aspect. Sparks may fly.

So let`s see if or how your husband fits into this:


For instance his Moon-NN falls onto your Jupiter and DESC, especially the conjunction to DESC is clearly in orb, but the other is okayish too. Speak probably for your ability to expand his emotional experience to uplift his mood. Is there a lot of laughter in your home?
Not to mention that this seems to feel pretty much meant to be with NN in play. a strong emotional uplifting bond. something like the song "You raise me up". at least on good days.

His Venus-Saturn-opposition turns this into a Grand square, it is at least squaring your ASC (hopefully your ASC is very precise, cause in the harmonic chart even one minute difference could mean an ASC about 10 or more degrees away).
So this brings into this the commitment factor, but also maybe occasionally some sobering down. cannot be all fun and games all the time I suppose.

your Juno on his ASC definitely is a marriage combo, too, though in this instance it ties into the Grand Cross with his Sun-Uranus-Neptune, Looks like there is some crazy stuff there, exciting, exhilerating or just driving each other bonkers.


Vertex-NN is pretty fated I think. Like there is a real purpose whatever it might be.
It ties especially into your Jupiter and his Saturn, so it`s about building a mature relationship with a good balance between sincerity and laughter, commitment and exploring potentials (together hopefully). It might not always be easy, as it is of course a square relationship between Jupiter and Saturn, but possibly it means that you really struggle to get that balance right and put a lot of energy and effort into it, even though the balance might tilt to one or the other side occasionally.

[Violets]

lumina, you've been so spot on with your assessment that it has taken me a while to respond, lol.

Basically everything that you've said fits us well.

There is a lot of laughter in our home, and between us, joking and just being silly/stupid. There's also a tremendous amount of spiritual connection and focus on our spiritual selves. This often leads to "adventures", or new projects in our lives that probably seem insane to most people, but make sense to us as we try to follow our true paths as much as we can. Both of us having Uranus on our IC/MC axis, this has lead to a lot of traveling, moving, and trying to figure out how we can find a balance between our desires to have a stable place to raise our kids with enough money to do so, and our inherent disdain for living the standard, mundane life that most Americans tend to live (to our Uranian ways of seeing things).

Anyway... Yes, we butt heads and it is quite intense and explosive when that happens (which is basically every day, over the stupidest things, more often than not...what type of fence to put up in our yard--wooden, lattice, or chain link--whether we should put the plates and bowls on the second shelf, or on the first shelf in the kitchen, etc).

We realize this is completely ridiculous usually within an hour or two, although there are the occasional serious blowouts where we've both just had it, but at the end of the day, we know this is something we are meant to do, and we know that we love each other. So.

We laugh, we yell, we dig in our heels, we meditate together, do energy work together, laugh with our kids together, play hide and seek and make up ridiculous songs while we wander around the house, get our feelings hurt, get mad, get over it, and let our son know that we love each other no matter what.

We trust in the Universe, or God, or Burt, or whatever one chooses to call the loving flow of energy that helps us all along our path, and we tend to go with that where it takes us (which has been a lot of places in the course of almost 9 years).

So yes, you're spot on, lol.
We're definitely not dull people, I'll say that much.

[lumina]

@ Violets

your marriage sounds amazing, and healthy and like a real partnership, and of course occasional upsets are part of it, but it seems you have found a great way to resolve them and to remember - emotionally- why you are togehter (love), which is probably what the 9th harmonic chart is about, too, the meaning/ purpose/ why of a relationship, how you can make 2 individuals become an union without losing the individuality. 

And yes surely unusual ones you are, but with Uranus-Neptune I wouldn`t expect it any other way. 


Actually now that we are talking about it, P has a widish Uranus-Neptune-trine in his 9th harmonic chart, and both are sextile to the Sun, so there is his Sun on the Uranus/Neptune-mp. lol Curiously enough since his Sun is of course exactly conjunct my Saturn-Juno-DESC, I seem to somehow activate it in him. Luckily those are sextiles/ trines. lol 


I had almost an Uranus-Neptune-conjunction alignment in the 9th harmonic chart. David Cochrane allows 16 degrees for a conjunction in the harmonic charts, Hamblin uses 12 degrees, I feel most comfortable with 9-12 degrees (as these would relate to a novile or trine etc, in the natal chart with not more than 1 degree orb - in the natal chart). 

In my 9th harmonic chart Uranus and Neptune are about 12 degrees from each other; or in other words in my natal they are novile with an orb of 1°25, Interestingly enough P`s Priapus is right in the middle of this in the 9th harmonic chart. 

The midpoint of that wide 9th harmonic Uranus-Neptune conjunction in my chart would be 5 Cancer and his Priapus falls onto 6 Cancer. 

Funny enough on monday transiting Moon was on 3 Cancer, and hence conjunct his Priapus and most closely to my Neptune-NN really, the Uranus was a bit out of it. and the transiting Mercury-SAturn conjunction (all in 9th harmonic chart of course) was falling onto his Sun (and my Saturn-Juno-DESC) and hence apparently activating his Sun= Uranus/Neptune picture as well. 


I mention that because as bizarre and irrational as that seems - I do sometimes have the habit to talk to people in my mind, most of the times and most people do not hear that of course, if they are sensitive they seem to sense *something* but in a rather nebulous vague way, except for children. lol - but I did that almost involuntarily on monday as well, though in fact I got the feeling I was the first receiving a strange "mental image" that was suddenly popping up in my mind, and who knows where that really came from? But it incited me to direct some mental words, unspoken of course, towards him in my mind, I´ve done that before, but on monday I guess there was something increasing the volume of this sort of mental whisper, cause he was reacting to that like I had spoken those words aloud. And the response always matched what I had asked or said just the second before, even though for the crowd around us he seems to have been acting really bizarre, strange and irrational, as some of his actions and words and so on just seemed to have come out of nowwhere. I am sure not even he knows what made him react this way, but that moment it just startled me as it was like a literal response to my THOUGHTS. That`s all they were really, thoughts, or rather like when you are talking to yourself, just including him, you know? 


I suppose that was the Uranus-Neptune-factor. lol 

[Violets]

lumina that's intense!
I do know exactly what you mean about directing thoughts "at" people, or sort of mentally talking to them. But that's crazy that he responded so pointedly, maybe without even knowing why! I do believe that our thoughts are very powerful (after all, it's the intention behind a lot of spiritual practices that make them effective).

I wonder if he knew it was coming from you...

It sort of makes me want to check other 9th harmonic charts with people I've had intense psychic exchanges with, just out of curiosity.