Mars-Pluto-square

[lumina]

As I was thinking of this thread, it curiously is just getting exact, that square today. 




I guess the only good thing that could be said about it, is that after today it gets farther and farther away, slipping into the past like a memory of a bad dream. Though we probably all will have the scars to prove it.


rubyslipper.ca/ruby-slipper-astrology




"You can`t run away forever. 
But there`s nothing wrong 
with getting a good head start..."


How are you holding up`?


Just hang in there, it`s going to be better, I promise, even the darkest nights becomes a new morning at some point. AT least I heard of that old legend. like a faraway echo of eons of time ago. 

[Ava]

Thanks lumina , so far so good.

I may have mentioned that I was reading Matthew McConaughey's book and bothered by it, but he said something like, his mother beat cancer twice with aspirin and denial. That's gonna be my approach to 2021, except maybe something else instead of aspirin.

Lost a long-time acquaintance last night, some things are meant to happen. I don't mean to sound dismissive of anyone but even I with my dysfunctional Pisces moon square Neptune, I have my lines in the sand. So I'm free of that influence.

I am not feeling particularly edgy or reactive. Tr Venus is on my Neptune (and yours) and I'm dreaming and hoping in little doses, like sending lanterns up to the sky. (Imaginary ones that don't set anything on fire or pollute.)

Pls don't quote

[anela]

Faith, I lost a longtime friend, because she was pissed that I disagreed with her. What angered her had happened a month before. She’s an Aquarius.   That was a couple of weeks ago. I argued with the Taurus yesterday, and haven’t spoken to him since.

I’m usually a live and let live person, unless someone really crosses a line. When mars was last conjunct my sun, I felt good. I don’t feel at my worst now, but I feel like I could lose it at the drop of one more hat.

I have a cancerian friend who talked about being in a deep depression. She works the computers in a hospital, sees the covid numbers. She’s also been dealing with a divorce, being mostly isolated (she’s a social butterfly), and she’s going to a friend’s house tonight. She said that she needs hugs, and her friend has a spare bedroom.

I’m feeling more protective of my space. Understanding the boundaries of others emotionally. I’ve just thought of a cartoon that could describe how I’m feeling right now. I’m still looking for some Christmas magic.  Things are bad for so many people, I just don’t know what to do.  I’m trying to think of how I could produce some Christmas magic for someone else.  

my aunt is now in a wheelchair, and having problems with her eyesight.   

[anela]

[anela]

I’ve been trying to avoid other people’s arguments, but ended up defending a friend the other night, because someone called them useless, other things, and said they should disappear. Defending someone is fine - telling someone they’re worthless, is not. I knew I should have avoided that place this week, because it can be a minefield. I really think that it's like a comfort zone, but one that I don't want to keep the existing. It can't be "comfort" when it's bad half the time. 

[Ava]

^ anela If that's "the other place," we might be talking about the same person? I don't know if they still post there because I never go. And, same here, I can put up with a lot of arguing but name-calling and super condescending comments...nah. I have better stuff to do.

Seems like things are pretty tense for a lot of people. Not sure why I haven't dealt with more of it.

I'm so sorry your aunt's health is failing.

[Ava]

Dec 24, 2020 0:12:32 GMT astrogirl said:

What does this square do?

Mars square Pluto has a reputation for anger or violence.

Natives with the square have usually learned to keep it under control and may channel it positively, but as a transit it can make people lose their temper, act out, overreact.

[anela]

Dec 24, 2020 11:52:23 GMT Ava said:

^ anela If that's "the other place," we might be talking about the same person? I don't know if they still post there because I never go. And, same here, I can put up with a lot of arguing but name-calling and super condescending comments...nah. I have better stuff to do.

Seems like things are pretty tense for a lot of people. Not sure why I haven't dealt with more of it.

I'm so sorry your aunt's health is failing.

Thank you.  ❤️

I don’t think it’s the same person. They’re the ones who called me worthless, back in January.  Tried to get me kicked out of a thread, because I disagreed with them. They probably think that I’m condescending, but “meh”.  They’ve been around for a long time, but I don’t know if we interacted before that.  

I had promised that I would put myself in a bubble, but I didn’t.  I’m kind of sick of the internet, but that feeling comes and goes.  I was fine when Mars was on my sun before.  Maybe it’s because Jupiter moved on - although it’s trine my Moon/Venus.  

[lumina]

Dec 24, 2020 11:56:06 GMT Ava said:

Dec 24, 2020 0:12:32 GMT astrogirl said:

What does this square do?

Mars square Pluto has a reputation for anger or violence.

Natives with the square have usually learned to keep it under control and may channel it positively, but as a transit it can make people lose their temper, act out, overreact.

That!


There is so much power generated with this, but in a square aspect it easily can spin out of control. 

[lumina]

anela

I am sorry to hear that, about the falling outs, but also, and especially,a bout your aunt`s health declining. That is so sad.
The arguments and falling out sounds very much like Mars-Pluto. Well either it is temporary, or it was the last straw I guess, and it was a protection measure really to secure your boundaries. then it is sad but maybe necessary.

WEll actually just after the Mars - Pluto - square was exact, my mom told me her oldest friend had called her and told her that her nephew (of the friend) had not woken up anymore from sleep. His heart apprently failed. He was 40. Well he had been a drug addict for many years, but had been clean in recent years, still it seems it caught up with him. I did not know him, but still it was a shocking relevation, and I am so sorry for my mom`s friend, as she has to battle some own severe health problems herself. it is really unfair sometimes. She`s always taken care of others, always taken responsibility, always working for others, and is getting one hit after the other.


Well this shocked me, too, because, I mean, he was 40, and he just died in his sleep? Things like that really scare me, and while I think it is not really typical of Mars-Pluto (the dying in your sleep thing), my emotional reaction to it matched Mars-Pluto, well one thing it makes clear is that we are not in control of anything, and that our own will sometimes means squat in the grand scheme of things. Just like it was said in the link I posted above.

[lumina]

astrogirl

there are different ideas about that out there, depending on which astrologer you ask.

I use 1 degree for transits (for the hot phase), though some might be felt acutely even after that orb, especially, if there are several planets involved, closish to each other, or some midpoint picture.

But with 1-2 degrees you are on the "safe" side in terms of transits and progressions.

If you use an orb of 5-8 degrees for example, you will have some Pluto transits last for a decade. With the way I do astrology that is not really working. I do admit though that there will be a background-vibration that will last longer than a tight 1 degree orb, but usually things blow up in the hot phase, and after an aspect separates by 1-2 degrees, we should be feeling relief. For me I seem to experience this actually within the 1 degree orb frame. Other swear they feel even a 10 degree Pluto aspect (personally I doubt that, and think, that other things come into play, but I guess everyone finds their own approach that works for them).


I also sometimes do the event composite charts, which indicate if a natal (or synastric) aspect is replicated in the sky, and I only ever notice events matching in symbolism happening when these aspects are also replicating the same orb, up to maybe 1 degree, never outside that 1 degree orb. Though sometimes I had wished and hoped it would work with 3-4 orb too, but it never does. AT least not since I observe those. So I think the 1-2 degree orb figure is workable, for me.

However if a personal planet like transiting Sun for example aspects both planets in a conjunction, square or opposition, in particular, then the Mars-Pluto-square might rear up its head again, even if it is outside 1-2 degree strictly. Same goes for pr Moon, if your pr Moon aspects both, rather tightly, you will feel it again, even if other people might not (of course this works with any other natal or pr planets in your chart as well, as long as the orb is relatively tight; the loser orbs will maybe felt too, but the impact will also get more loose with growing distance).

Might make the difference between real danger of violence and a mere annoyance/ nuisance on a day. 

[lumina]

BTW one example on the day it was exact, three police officers were shot by a man (while they were apparently wanting to protect the man`s girlfriend/ wife from him).

Sad and tragically and dramatic as that is, that is a textbook expression of a Mars-Pluto-square in mundane sense. Mars is in a stronger positiong than Pluto signwise, so here we have the case of individual aggression (Mars) harming collective power (Pluto).


This is just one example of course, and there ARE some better ways to deal with Mars-Pluto, one could take that power and make something good out of it, but it takes a lot of selfcontrol honestly an honest review of one`s personal motives.

[Ava]

Dec 27, 2020 13:10:01 GMT lumina said:

astrogirl

there are different ideas about that out there, depending on which astrologer you ask.

I use 1 degree for transits (for the hot phase), though some might be felt acutely even after that orb, especially, if there are several planets involved, closish to each other, or some midpoint picture.

But with 1-2 degrees you are on the "safe" side in terms of transits and progressions.

If you use an orb of 5-8 degrees for example, you will have some Pluto transits last for a decade. With the way I do astrology that is not really working. I do admit though that there will be a background-vibration that will last longer than a tight 1 degree orb, but usually things blow up in the hot phase, and after an aspect separates by 1-2 degrees, we should be feeling relief. For me I seem to experience this actually within the 1 degree orb frame. Other swear they feel even a 10 degree Pluto aspect (personally I doubt that, and think, that other things come into play, but I guess everyone finds their own approach that works for them).

Thanks lumina. 

If anyone's curious, here are Mars and Pluto for the next 30 days:

-> This link here <-

Scroll down to see longitude positions and speed. Mars is currently moving about 0°25 per day, Pluto only 0°01 per day. 

By the New Year, Mars will be 3° separating from Pluto so the crisis phase is over, but they are still square by sign until Jan 6th, and square within orb until about the 8th. 

Astrodienst allows a 6° orb for major aspects between Mars and Pluto, not sure if they differentiate between natal and transits. 
www.astro.com/astrowiki/en/Orb 

[lumina]

Dec 27, 2020 17:21:03 GMT Ava said:

within orb until about the 8th.

Well that is up to debate.  

unless you referred to the mentioned orbs in the link. Well seems to me about natal orbs btw. 


That is astro.coms take on this


www.astro.com/astrowiki/en/Transit
(I still often find myself thinking that this popular "some people are more sensitive than others to transits" is most of the time just a wiggling around the issue that the riddle has not been solved properly yet. - however I could imagine that if there is a strong natal resonance with a planetary pairing, maybe people ARE more sensitive to these planets if coming again in transits, or if the transiting or transited planet is on an angle for example - but while I could IMAGINE that, I am not SURE this is the case. Maybe in time. What I AM sure about is that tight orbs work. And often quite dramatically. And that gives me enough to work with and process to be honest. So I tend to stick to these mostly for this rather pragmatic reason.)

[Ava]

Dec 27, 2020 17:53:04 GMT lumina said:

Well that is up to debate.  

unless you referred to the mentioned orbs in the link. Well seems to me about natal orbs

Debate, when Mars is square Pluto?! You mean boxing matches? 

Just kidding.

Honestly...forgive me, I'm just procrastinating on housework.

Yes, I was referring to orbs in the astro.com link.

Dec 27, 2020 17:53:04 GMT lumina said:

www.astro.com/astrowiki/en/Transit
(I still often find myself thinking that this popular "some people are more sensitive than others to transits" is most of the time just a wiggling around the issue that the riddle has not been solved properly yet. 

Thank you. 

From what I've seen, astrologers who write daily horoscopes focus almost exclusively on whatever aspects are perfecting that day. Still, I have a pattern of feeling a certain way and seeing it described in the next day's horoscope - I sense it "early" or maybe everyone does, so it's not early.....as you said, there's a riddle.

Richard Tarnas uses giant orbs for outer planet transits by the way:

The study of larger historical epochs and cultural shifts through planetary cycles.
* Outer planet conjunctions and oppositions especially.
* 15°–20° orb.
* Uranus-Pluto cycle.
* Saturn-Pluto, etc.

theastrologypodcast.com/2016/07/25/richard-tarnas-on-cosmos-and-psyche/ 

[vg]

I dont know if i like this transit right now.

My bf has tr pluto squaring his natal mars and tr mars opposing his natal mars which conjuncts my asc.

I have tr pluto squaring my asc/dsc(by ab 3 deg) and mars is basically on my dsc right now. Mars rules my dsc. Tr mars is starting to oppose my natal pluto.

My bf has been making some comments today about some stuff which ended in an argument today and i said a few home truths to him.

I am also having some postpartum body image issues. On plus side i am more active again. I really feel the need to exercise.

My son is having tr pluto opposing his natal mercury and tr mars squaring it. On the plus side he is has been making progress with his speech.

Pls dnt quote

[lumina]

Ava


"Debate, when Mars is square Pluto?! You mean boxing matches?
"
I am
Come closer, if you dare!!! But a warning my Chiron is on the SAbian that reads "A boxer is entering a ring", I am just trying to figure out if that means I am doomed to be a punching bag or if quite the opposite it means, since I am used to challenges of that kind, I have developed a certain steely resilience. Well maybe both at different times. lol

But well my Solar Return has the Mars-Pluto-square inbuilt. 




JHonestly...forgive me, I'm just procrastinating on housework.
"
totally understandable. 

"From what I've seen, astrologers who write daily horoscopes focus almost exclusively on whatever aspects are perfecting that day. Still, I have a pattern of feeling a certain way and seeing it described in the next day's horoscope "

I find that perfectly understandable and not a riddle at all. After all the time when an already partile aspect (or at least approaching partile) is applying to its peak and perfection, this is considered the most acute phase of it. 

There are also some astrologers who say that different planets have different manifestation times, like Saturn often manifests later, Mars prematurely and Uranus right on the spot. 

i personally have not observed that however. (Saturn transits seem to be extrremely punctual to me. lol)


"* 15°–20° orb.
"
Yeah, doesn`t really impress me, even if it is Richard Tarnas saying that.  


Seriously though there are some different approaches/ perspectives. Of course we have generational cycles, and those cycles are determined through the signbackground, so even if not technically in aspect/ in orb, the signbackground will colour the expression of planets, very evidently in personal planets, with outer planets it is often more a collective/ mundane thing, UNTIL these broader cycles line up with our natal planets/ progressed planets, but once they do I certainly would not count a 20 degree orb. Or if I would, I could count anything. It would be totally arbitrary, in terms of eventoriented, peakoriented, timespecific predictive astrology. In terms of cyclic ones, taking background vibration into account, of course that would still count. 

[lumina]

vg

well that is quite an intense line up in combination you have there! NO wonder it is getting argumentative at times. Sometimes however "hometruths" need to be said to clear the air, and that is certainly an aspect that makes one less inclined to "sweep things under the carpet". It depends a little what is already under the carpet and how these truths are being communicated of course. 

Also if this aspect is good for something, then it is for that, digging out things, and also for getting down to work and being able to invest an enourmous (physical) energy. it jsut has to directed to productive things, but especially physical activity might be a good thing to express this energy, esp. as long as Mars isi n Aries. 

I have not checked it but I could imagine a lot of very successful people having this aspect natally or in progressions for when they started building their career/ business/projects whatever from scratch one, as this aspect would have given them the power to do so and also the stubbornness to NOT hear to the reservations of more reasonable people.  

(well I also could imagine dictators and murderers to have that aspect, but on its own it just means an enormous amount of power, how we direct it, is our choice. Though if a lot of inner energy and power is there, it sometimes might get difficult to NOT step on other people`s toes. But the degree to which we do that and if we use it for healing or hurting, it still is within our power to choose. Even though it might be a real challenge to NOT use it for personal power).