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Post by lumina on Jul 31, 2020 15:06:38 GMT
in important events in your life, which one has had the tighter (preferably partile) aspects, in transits/ progressions?
(either Tr and pr Node or the transits and progressions to the natal Nodes).
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Post by Ava on Jul 31, 2020 23:04:01 GMT
I think I can't answer that for real, but here's some astrobabble... Maybe...just maybe, the mean node works better for obvious events (birth/death/wedding/graduation/alien abduction) because it's the more obvious calculation, while the true node works better for refined, pinpointed events (epiphanies, turning points in relationships, etc), because it's the more refined calculation, noting subtleties? For what it's worth, the draconic option at astro.com has a true node default setting and that seems to work for everything. I have: 20 Scorpio true NN 18 Scorpio mean NN 18 Pisces moon In my life, a lot's happened with transiting/progressed/synastric true nodes @ 17-18 range. Hardly anything obvious happens with transiting nodes @20. Maybe that's because my moon is a strong factor. Still there was a mix of nodal stuff when I got married: - Transiting mean NN @ 20 Leo squaring my true NN exactly. - My pr true NN @ 18.12 Scorpio, conjunct my natal mean NN (and trine my moon, no orb). This conjunct pr IC @ 19 Scorpio. - Pr comp mean NN @ 15 Scorpio exactly conjunct my husband's true NN. How would you answer this lumina? Pls don't quote |
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Post by lumina on Aug 1, 2020 14:39:16 GMT
How would you answer this lumina ? I hope it is okay, I quoted the question to me? If not I will edit it out. Anyway, from the calculation it seems that only the true Node is true, in the sense that it is true to the definition of the nodal axis. the nodal axis is defined as the point where the path of the Moon intersects the path of the earth. As Cochrane puts it "therefore when the Moon has latitude 0N00 the Moon must be conjunct the North Node or the -south Node" (as the zero-point of latitude is the intersection with the earth path, at least if I understand him right), this only is true for the true Node. However while there are many astrologers using the true node, some also (and among them some I consider great astrologers) say the mean node delivers the better results in transits and progressions. Usually it is said that the difference is too small to make a difference, but I don`t find that to be true. Granted it might be rather truish in natal astrology, but it certainly is not if we use solar arc directions for instance, Like in your case, if the difference is 2 degrees, this relates to a difference in a timespan of over 2 years (allowing some orb of course). It seems a difference to me if something is happening in 2020 or 2022 so to speak. You asked the question about the mean nodes being applicable to more obvious events, but are these really more obvious? What is an obvious event? just going after my feeling, it doesn`t sit right with me, either the nodes are appplicable or they are not. Also in terms of the Draco charts, it DOES make a difference. even in my chart, and my nodes are just a bit over half a degree off each other. If using the mean node, the Dracos have to be calculated with the mean node as well, if using true node, then the true Node is for Dracos. It really annoys me a little if astrologers use the mean node for anything in natal or transits or progressions, but then suddenly switch to the true node for Dracos. It is .... inconsistent. (I don`t like inconsistency, but you figured that out about me I guess. lol) interestingly if calculating the True Node Draco chart, in the synastry there is a very tight Moon-Pluto-opposition and a wide Venus-Uranus-opposition. Calculating it with the Mean node, it is the other way round (though in this case my Draco Pluto moves out of orb to conjunct his tropical Venus interestingly, or into a very wide orb; I am of course used to the default true Node Draco, so it is difficult to say if it is just what resonates most with me, as it feels like, or if it is simply out of habit, because I am used to its gestalt). Anyway to sum it up, it seems that true Node is the only astronomical correct calculation, however I was interested to learn about actual real life experiences. (and if the mean node is indeed delivering better, more specific and exact, results, then the astronomical "vagueness" might be excusable and maybe it is realy more about the symbolism, even though it pains me almost physically to write that. lol ) I would exclude the mix up of mean and true node in the aspects for this though, as it doesn`t answer the question really. Well of course in your case Moon is on 18 degree, so there is that. not easy to say I guess. |
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Post by lumina on Aug 1, 2020 14:42:21 GMT
btw the calculation of the mean node is not really the obvious one, just averaging out the difficulties because the Moon`s path is a nightmare to calculate.  |
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Post by lumina on Aug 1, 2020 14:48:46 GMT
hmm, was transiting mean NOde aspecting in 4th harmonic aspect anything in your natal, progressed, solar arc or composite chart with your husband? (partile orb of course  ) Where was transiting true Node? Did it aspect anything? your pr IC at 19 Scorpio seems of major interest (also of course the trine to your natal Moon hooking into this), so the pr NN at 18 Scorpio is interesting,b ut well it was sort of in between your natal nodes, though it was applying to your true Node. what was pr mean Node doing in terms of your pr IC? applying? separating? which orb? |
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Post by lumina on Aug 1, 2020 14:49:37 GMT
Which Draconic chart (mean Node or true Node) is more sensitive to transits at important events?
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Post by Ava on Aug 1, 2020 16:04:59 GMT
Hi lumina "btw the calculation of the mean node is not really the obvious one, just averaging out the difficulties because the Moon`s path is a nightmare to calculate."
Okay. I was just trusting this: "Mean Node is the position of the Moon’s node according to a mathematical formula which ignores many of the minor perturbations in its orbit." Ignoring minor details, focusing on the general, obvious orbital path. "hmm, was transiting mean NOde aspecting in 4th harmonic aspect anything in your natal, progressed, solar arc or composite chart with your husband?"20 Leo, tr mean node 20 Scorpio, pr comp Mercury 17 Scorpio, my pr mean node 17 Taurus, my solar arc Chiron 17 Virgo, his solar arc/ pr sun 17 Cap, his solar arc Saturn He also had mean node/Chiron: 13 Scorpio pr mean node 13 Aqua, pr Chiron 15 Scorpio, our pr mean node 15 Scorpio, his natal true NN 15 Scorpio, his solar arc moon "Where was transiting true Node? Did it aspect anything?"
21 Leo, transiting true node 21 Scorpio, comp Neptune 21 Libra, comp Venus 21 Cancer, comp ASC what was pr mean Node doing in terms of your pr IC? applying? separating? which orb?
17.43 pr mean node 18.12 pr true node 19.31 pr IC Which Draconic chart (mean Node or true Node) is more sensitive to transits at important events?
Beats me, I only use true. Well of course in your case Moon is on 18 degree, so there is that. not easy to say I guess.
Right, having my sun, moon, and pr/mean nodes all around 15-18° makes it hard to say what's what. My pr sun was square my pr mean node to the minute when my father died, but it's not always like that. I mean he died with tr sun @ 16 Cap, not 15 Cap (my sun), or 14 Cap (his pr sun)...it's not always partile. But we can read into things however we like....such as, for me, 16° links to my Mars-Jupiter sextile, and my father was a Mars-Jupiter figure with an exact quincunx...see what I mean? |
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Post by lumina on Aug 1, 2020 16:41:41 GMT
Ava"Okay. I was just trusting this: "Mean Node is the position of the Moon’s node according to a mathematical formula which ignores many of the minor perturbations in its orbit." Ignoring minor details, focusing on the general, obvious orbital path. " Depends on what we understand as "obvious" I guess. probably it is the same, as saying "smoothing out the irregularities of the path" (to a point it might be okay, but it could also be very much misleading. I mean the path and motion is as it is and if it is irregular, then so be it. On the other hand, who knows? Maybe the mean path works symbolically better? that is what I am trying to deduce). "20 Leo, tr mean node 20 Scorpio, pr comp Mercury " So that is a biggie. I am not sure, but is Mercury ruling anything relationship-oriented? if not it could of course also relate to something different. 17 Scorpio, my pr mean node 17 Taurus, my solar arc Chiron 17 Virgo, his solar arc/ pr sun 17 Cap, his solar arc Saturn that is of course very very interesting. and his solar arc/ pr Sun opposing your Moon. "21 Leo, transiting true node 21 Scorpio, comp Neptune 21 Libra, comp Venus 21 Cancer, comp ASC " Hmm, how do you feel about that? "17.43 pr mean node 18.12 pr true node 19.31 pr IC " Interesing. " But we can read into things however we like...." Well, partile is always a special case. And this quote above I would agree with, but coming from the other perspective, from a certain degree on (with large orbs I mean), we simply can read into things however we like... HOwever there are patterns, and like you pointed out, for you there is a 16° pattern. and this was a pattern your father had, too, and it is a partile pattern for you in your natal chart, patterns trump anything in a chart, particularly if they are close. (and slightly wider aspects can come with midpointpictures, and to my observation if there are any such, they take precedence over the partile transit over one of the legs of that pattern, as they are gathering the energy of the whole pattern)
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Post by lumina on Aug 1, 2020 16:44:29 GMT
Actually I think that might prove very enlightening too. locating midpoints of planets that are in aspect natally, even if wider aspects, and also patterns that people share, which usually come up again in the composite, and I think I noticed them coming up at important events in a couple`s life too, (like marriage charts, first meeting charts, important other events)
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Post by Ava on Aug 1, 2020 17:21:20 GMT
Actually I think that might prove very enlightening too. locating midpoints of planets that are in aspect natally, even if wider aspects, and also patterns that people share, which usually come up again in the composite, and I think I noticed them coming up at important events in a couple`s life too, (like marriage charts, first meeting charts, important other events) I was thinking that. I mean if we are intent on finding very exact aspects, there are always midpoints. Why are you being so Virgo today, though?  Re: wedding astro, it's complicated, the circumstances were unusual, I guess tr node square comp Neptune is a good reflection of the up-in-air quality of a rushed wedding. Also we got married in a little, old country church attached to a graveyard and had the reception there so there are tombstones in many of the pics...Scorpio Neptune. Our comp Scorpio Mercury is sextile to, and in mutual reception with, Virgo Pluto. Two things that bind us are deep cynicism and physical attraction and they are in line with this picture. Pls don't quote |
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Post by Ava on Aug 1, 2020 18:06:57 GMT
Speaking of precision Las Vegas Massacre, 2017 23.26 transiting true NN 23.26 transiting draconic Pluto Aspecting Paddock's natal t-square: 20 Leo Pluto 22 Aqua moon (tr moon @ 25 Aqua) 23 Taurus Jupiter www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Stephen_Paddock |
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Post by lumina on Aug 1, 2020 18:18:10 GMT
About the last post, holy crap!!!!!!!! alone that Tr Draco Pluto on the Tr NN, and along comes someone to become "an external expression" if this. It is so tragic though.
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Post by lumina on Aug 1, 2020 18:29:06 GMT
And the marriage-description, that is so unusual and I love that. Possibly my Venus-Pluto-square along with Neptune. What a matching picture though. (btw in our composite there is a sextile of Pluto to the Mercury-Neptune-conjunction, too, albeit in different signs, so not as plutonic as yours).
I guess it is just one of my Virgo-days. lol I do not even have anything in Virgo. (BTW I think if it comes to astrology, I am always Virgoan, just on other days I might be a little more lenient about it. lol)
let me check for my diurnal chart or daily progressed one. DP chart has ASC on 2 Libra, so just out of Virgo. lol
Well my Solar Return has Moon in Virgo on the SR MC, though this is valide for all year.
Diurnal chart from this morning has ASC on 00°40 Virgo. ROFL just entering it, so expect the next month to be rather Virgo-ASC-like for me
MC on 20 Taurus (these diurnal charts never disappoint. lol)
also chartruler Mercury on 23 Cancer in 11th house, exactly opposing Pluto today, squaring true Lilith on 23 Aries in 8th house.
Virgo is also intercepted in my natal 9th house, and since I am not travelling... I am just being anal about other things. lol
Though I created a lot of confusion yesterday in terms of travels and concerts, because I was being too quick and then I had to somehow unravel this mess but, luckily the person at the other end of the line (who was so exasperated I guess from all the confusion that he asked me to call him today, which I did, and we sorted it out. lol he was nice about the chaos I made.)
well my diurnal chart also has Neptune in 7th house, though I suppose this will be more interesting, once the diurnal DESC will tick off that Neptune.
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