Saturn in the 12th

[Deleted]

All I am seeing is negative experiences, is it always so bad?

[geminiblues]

Are you talking about the natal or the transit? I've been through 2 transits. They have both been, well, the calm before the storm. Like, you can tell that the wheels are about to come off but on the surface, all seems calm. Saturn hits the Ascendant, and all the decay is exposed. Then Saturn strips you of the rotten structures and makes you step up and stand on your own.

[Deleted]

Hi geminiblues no i am talking about natally. I experienced the transit once and it was a bit depressing for me to be honest i felt lonely but when it went over my asc/pluto things changed for the better. I have saturn in the first as well.

My son has this aspect natally directly opposite his sun. All i have read is about absent fathers, alcoholics, fathers in jail, military etcetc.

12th house also rules the hours leading up to the birth. I had a difficult and will say traumatic few hours before he was born.

If one in 12 people have saturn in the 12th house i am not sure it can just be all negatives about the father. A twelfth of the people i know do not have absent fathers it would be less than that.

Kind of fed up of seeing only negatives about 12th house, neptune, saturn etc...

I will edit out so pls dont quote

[geminiblues]

It might just be that there's lots of negative interpretations for Saturn no matter where it is. But it does seem to get an especially bad rap in the "water" houses (4,8,12). I get a lot of "parent issues" for Saturn in the 4th, though they can't seem to be able to decide if it's mommy or daddy that should be to blame. Well, neither, it's all the moving around we did when I was young - 4th being the house of "home" in some sense.

Anyway, being who I am (with leo moon, Pluto chart ruler et al) I take great delight in proving the doom and gloom interpretations wrong.

[Ava]

If my chart is correct, or even with a significant margin of error, I have 12H Saturn. My father had 12H Saturn.

Bob Marks says it makes a person emotionally resilient, for the most part.

Saturn in the Twelfth House: suppresses depression. Of course everyone gets depressed now and then. But when someone with this placement gets depressed, the trap door to the subconscious swings open and all the old depression comes out. This can be temporarily immobilizing, the "I just can’t get out of bed today" syndrome. Folks with Saturn in the twelfth house are usually very reliable. Everybody else depends on them and leans on them as well. They have to find someone to lean on as well.

www.bobmarksastrologer.com/twelthhouse.htm

I think Saturn in the 12th obscures problems from view. Even the native doesn't fully connect with the problems; they seem blurry, they can be ignored or sidelined. The person can carry on like all that negative stuff isn't really happening. 

There are many US Presidents and other leaders with 12H Saturn:
www.astrotheme.com/celebrities/saturn/m12/1.htm


Some people on that list do have missing or absent fathers (like Barack Obama), and others have some significant tragedies (Putin's birth was preceded by the death of two older brothers). Some have peculiar issues to grapple with, relative to their celebrity fathers and certain confusing issues surrounding them (Kendall Jenner, Brody Jenner, Paris Jackson, Caroline Kennedy, George W Bush).

My father was a recovered alcoholic who spent a lot of time at AA meetings as I was growing up, still battling this disease. (So there you see the 12H influence - he was an addict, but recovered.) He wasn't around much and when he was home, he was reading and immersed in his own world. He died when I was fairly young (just turned 31).

However, as removed and distant as he was overall, I knew he loved me, and he tried, and I don't know what else matters.

--- 

I do suspect that 12H Saturn natives have to create their own structures - they don't just adopt the values instilled in them by the patriarchy. 

I think there is some chance that the father will not play a conventional role in the child's life. There could be a sincere emotional bond between father and child, but all the same, there is enough distance that the child learns to think for themselves and intuitively build their own "structures," their own belief system. The child will be independent...in some ways this apple is going to fall far from the tree. 

People with this placement tend to avoid talking about the elephant in the room (their personal tragedies) and may channel negativity into discussing the world at large...seeing tragedy as relative, they may console themselves over their losses by focusing on people who have it much worse. Therefore, to them, nothing significant that they've endured is ever really that bad. 

I've seen a lot guilt in people with this placement, guilt over failures to serve others enough. I mean, we are focused on the problems of the world so we know what we are doing or not doing to contribute to life in general. 

I think if I had a child with this placement I would try and see where they needed help, in areas where they were not vocal about asking for help. Sometimes the more drastic the problem, the less they would say, leading you to believe "they've got this." There may be a psychological need to appear that way, but definitely they would still need help in that area. 

Pls don't quote

[Deleted]

Thanks for sharing your story @ava. I did see those examples but also saw examples such as shakira whose father was pretty active and inspired her into music. Though he did emigrate at one point and i think she followed later.

I do also think that a 12th saturn can show some kind of structure missing. What i mean is for example both our families are not close - his is far away and mine are a few hrs away. I grew up around alot of cousins but here we are alone its kind of like that lack of identifying with your root. As saturn represent things like bones it for me is a planet of struture the backbone, family planet. Of course the absense is also possible, though i do think maybe through work and other family related things.


Pls dnt quote

[Deleted]

well a- a lot of interpretations online are just pure crap, or just regurgitating each other. A lot dont go deep enough to explain whyyyyyy having x placement in y house aspecting to other planets are bad.
b - this links to a. Lots of them confuse house placement vs signs. Something purely in a sign might not have the quality assigned to the house. Cap mars in 4th house is not gonna be like cancer mars, or a 10th mars. It's just cap mars, in 4th house. Methodologically building a family foundation, probably preferring not to go outside, leave home or moving unless necessarily so for their foundation. Cancer mars is intuitively going after what they want. The house specifies what they want. 10th house mars go after their career. The manners to which they do so depends on aspects and sign.

So in terms of 12th house saturn, a saturn in capricorn is different from a saturn in Leo. I dont know what you mean by Shakira, do you mean the singer? She has saturn in 5th.
Anyway, saturn in 12th is not the same as saturn in pisces. Anything is 12th requires a more intuitively approach. It can indicate an absent father but the manners to which how the father is absent are different.
Famous ppl: Obama, Angelina Jolie, Beyonce, ScarJo, Vladimir Putin, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, Zayn Malik, Camila Cabello, Will Smith, Ben Affleck, Robert DeNiro, Tyra Banks, Kendall Jenner ....
These people are not just famous, a lot of them gain major prominence in their fields ...
Also we all have one psychological problem or another... I mean absent father is a lot better than abusive father lol.


c - Saturn rules 2 signs so how we relate to our spiritual self (if it's in 12th) will address how we relate to two different houses. which vary from chart to chart. Which ever planet rules the 12th house will also change the whole dynamic. So this whole absent male figure thing is a part of a different personal mythology each and every time.