What works in synastry?

[lumina]

I am curious. What did you observe REALLY works in synastry / composite and will manifest (most of the times, there is no always in astrology of course) in the real life experience? 

[12YearsABlob]

I wanna say anything hitting the angles is noticed, 99% of the time.

It may or may not be welcomed, depending on the type of aspect. Here's where the difference in natals comes into the picture.

I've seen angle connections fairly often, but this is just going off of the people I know.

If I were to attempt a generic statement, I'd say --

1.) Aspects that 'soothe', activate positively, or don't trigger at all the wounds in a natal chart. Otherwise it's the equivalent of someone constantly rubbing salt in your wounds, or pressing hard on your bruises.*

2.) For men, aspects that 'bring out' their Mars. Guess that's stereotyping them, but it helps if their Martian side gets expression. For instance, the generally 'meek' guy might be a totally different person with the lady who activates his Mars positively. He feels 'called upon' to enact that role - which is generally a good thing in relationships. (Very broadly speaking).

3.) Conversely, for women, probably things that bring out their Venusian side. I hesitate to put the moon here, because it's a whole other ball game and we have vastly different relationships with our moons. It's a very visceral planet, we can't consciously channel it. We also have different relationships with our Venus *but* Venus is more 'conscious', If I had to generalize, I'd say a woman would love to feel Venusian, have that aspected sweetly somehow. Feel truly seen.

4.) Addendum for points 2 & 3: The other side: men who are more Venusian/Lunar and women who are more Martian, or whose Mars is suppressed somehow. The reverse of points 2 and 3 also works. Basically - feeling accepted where one is not, usually - is the key. A feisty lady needs someone strong who can appreciate that about her. Not someone who'll feel insecure about being with her...

5.) Also, in marriages, I often see elemental compatibility between Venus-Venus and Mars-Mars. More often than Venus-Mars. I think that makes sense. Styles of loving and styles of 'going after' things should be in sync. So, two fire venuses each with an earth mars have a good shot at making a go of it even if their venus-mars don't mutually aspect each other.

* For e.g. Certain kinds of triggers to my moon-pluto are no bueno. Yet others, which might 'seem' bad - gel with the rest of my chart and make it an overall 'good' contact.

As for 'soothing', a soft Jupiter contact to an injured Moon might feel like a breath of fresh air and a sense of hitherto not found acceptance.

I'm barely scratching the surface here, it's way too complex for me to distill into some workable points. So please take it with a grain of salt. But it's interesting to think about. I hope this makes at least some sense.^

[lumina]

Ava and 12YearsABlob

great posts both of you!

[lumina]

Ava

"I guess it depends on what you mean by "works" ?"
Excellent question!



"Well that's the "script" anyway --- how the people feel, I think that's more a function of plain synastry,"
I agree.

As for draconics, I just remember having read something in Basil Fearrington`s "common sense synastry", how he terms the (lack of) tropical planets aspecting Draconic ones as "chart A doesn`t happen to B`s life". I somehow like that phrasing. (Of course whenever there are tropical aspects, there is a "happening to their life", but I think Fearrington meant to say on a deeper level).




"here have been cases where I EXPLODE with emotion, I'm just a mushroom cloud of feeling, but nobody really sees that...my Pisces moon is conjunct my draconic Uranus....in one case I'm thinking of, our synastry has several exact conjunctions, and I guess transits were hitting those, and while that's cool for a temporary high, the guy is gone, and I barely remember what was so great about him or those days we interacted. "
That is very interesting, and migth actually be one of those setbacks with highly conjunction oriented synastry, with no real other aspects configured, for most of the time everything might just be dormant, then a transit is pinching those conjunctions to life, and sometimes in an overwhelming way, and then when there is no transit to it anymore, you wonder what the heck just happened and why it`s not there anymore.

But does that mean that we need transits to wake up our synastry to gain awareness and a heightened sense of the energy between us (even though it is of course there all the time, but maybe more subtly beneath the surface?).


If that should be so, then for now I think P`s and my Sun-synastry is just falling back into the background. Well last year Saturn was transiting it and Uranus was making exact trines.

Currently I don´t see anything pinching our Suns, his Moon, my Mercury, his MC.
(In 2019 Tr Jupiter will conjunct all those though, and at some point Tr Mars will be opposite, though it won`t be an exactly simultaneous alignment).

(Well I guess we have to rely on the quicker transit of Sun and Venus in particular, for at least a little activation)

[lumina]

12YearsABlob

great observations, and you ahve to bear with me I am going to apply them to P`s and my synastry (I don`t think I will ever really understand it. lol)



"I wanna say anything hitting the angles is noticed, 99% of the time.
"
I have seen that a lot too, and also pulling the synastry aspects into prominence. For example in my parent`s synastry my Mom`s Venus-Mars conjunction falls onto my Dad`s ASC-Saturn (Venus-ASC being exact), additionally in particular her Venus and his Saturn are also trine his chartruler Mercury in Capricorn. (I am not usually paying attention to semisextiles, but maybe I am mistaken to not to? but it`s very obvious here, that her Venus is right in between his Neptune-Pluto-sextile, semisextiles both and of course being on the midpoint). 

But anyway, I suppose what is intensified by that angle-conjunction is: 
her Venus (and Mars) conjunct his Saturn, her Venus trine his Mercury, and natally for him the Mercury-Saturn-trine obviously. 
I absolutely can see that, I mean I see their attraction to each other (yes after all those years still) but also the need to communicate constructively with each other and work on shared goals and projects. 


- so note to check angularity and the synastric/ natal aspects configured with this - 



".) Aspects that 'soothe', activate positively, or don't trigger at all the wounds in a natal chart. Otherwise it's the equivalent of someone constantly rubbing salt in your wounds, or pressing hard on your bruises.*
"

Yes, that makes sense to me; I do seem to find the triggering of the wounds often in synastries, too, however. But then again thinking of my parents or others, usually those harsh triggering of the wounds (you do have to open a wound to let air into it so it won`t fester and can heal - however a different thing is to put salt into it all the time, and continuously open it again, will also not give it time enough to heal) as indicated by some challenging aspects, usually is accompanied by soft aspects to at least one end of the issue-planets. 

Hmm, it seems that in a way I am actually all the time doing that to P, putting salt into his wound. 
I mean as nice it is to have my Sun-Mercury conjunct his Sun-Moon-MC, it ALSO means I am probably reminding him through my presence of that square to SAturn-DESC, as he has Sun and Moon squaring Saturn on the DESC. It`s both angular, Sun-Saturn is exact (26 Sag - 26 Virgo) - it certainly IS an issue. 

Yeah, but is it my fault? My Sun-Mercury is pretty unafflicted (okay not really, it just does not have any harsh aspects, because it does not have any aspects. Period. But then again a floating conjunction is a very special case on its own, too little anchoring I suppose). 

Anyway his Moon is actually sextile my Uranus (3 degrees) and also sextile my Black Moon (exact) to the other side. Not sure that counts for something, or is just meh. 

his Saturn does not seem to have any soothing aspects to my chart, however I just today noticed that there is a very wide quintile between his Saturn and my Saturn (2 degrees), but that both Saturns have rather reasonably orbed biquintiles to my ASC, Neptune, NN and his Mercury (it seems like that stellium gathered around my ASC really is one of the keys to understand this synastry, or to even navigate it, though at the same time it is also an issue, being the Apex of a T-square. lol)


An issue that certainly is present in my chart is the exact and isolated Moon quinkunx Saturn - My Saturn is not really strongly aspected in his chart, though it is possibly square his Pluto (4 degrees), with his Pluto being trine my Moon (4 degrees). 

Saturn in my chart is also conjunct Vertex (like in his own natal as well), and squaring Chiron (3 degrees) (and Chiron-Eros/Vertex-Mars being part of a Thor`s hammer figure) - does not help my Chiron to feel at ease with his Pluto opposing it with just one degree and obviously squaring my Vertex and Eros exact (and Saturn by 4 degrees) and squaring Sun/Moon-mp exact as well. 

But as I said at the same time Pluto is trine Moon (4 degrees), which is sextile my Chiron (3 degrees). 


Another issue of my chart is certainly Pluto on the MC, squaring Venus. It makes a T-square with his Ceres in Aries, which is on my IC, opposing Pluto and squaring Venus (I seem to be drawn to that degree in Aries though, not necessarily with Ceres on it, but it has come up before, it is also a hot spot I guess as it simultaneously trines Mars-Neptune-NN). 

Well his Mercury sextiles my Pluto exact; my Venus completes a widish Grand trine with his Mars-Jupiter and Chiron. 
my Venus 6 Cap
his Chiron 9 Taurus
his Mars 11 Virgo
his Jupiter 10 Virgo

I am not fond of the large orb between his Mars and my Venus (5 degrees) but still I think that earthy grand trine is something quite intriguing. 





"2.) For men, aspects that 'bring out' their Mars."
I noticed that his Mars seems to be much more integrated into our synastry especially by tight aspects, except the Venus-thing.
I mean his Mars is: 
trine my Venus (5)
opposite my Jupiter exact
opposite my Ceres (2)
square my Neptune (1)
square my NN (1) 
square my ASC (4)

while my Mars is 
conjunct his Mercury (4)
square his Jupiter (5)
semisquare his Pluto exact
square his NN (3-4)
trine his Ceres (2)


Maybe not the usual suspects in terms of aspects, but there is definitely some Mars-triggering going on, okay and mutually so. 

I really wonder about that Mars-Ceres-thing. lol



"5.) Also, in marriages, I often see elemental compatibility between Venus-Venus and Mars-Mars. More often than Venus-Mars."
Well I often seem to notice that one of these will happen, but not both. So either Venus-Venus or Mars-Mars, of course if one of these happens, chances are that Venus-Mars happens too. 
And of course it means that at least one person has natally different elements for Venus and Mars. 

Actually my parents are a bad example as
Venus-Venus: Air - Earth
Mars-Mars: Air - Earth

my Dad`s Mars in Libra and Venus in Aqua; my Mom`s Venus-Mars in Virgo - they must be the famous exception to the rule, cause I am pretty sure they do not have any issues in this regard. lol 


For my brother and his wife it is: 
Venus - Venus: Aries - Pisces
Mars - Mars: Aries - Scorpio
Hmm not a good example either I guess. 

Let`s see. 
my best friend and her husband:
Venus - Venus: Sag - Libra
Mars - Mars: Gemini - Libra
Well that fits no matter how you turn it. lol 


Maybe they can deal with different elements because they are so harmonious in themselves in regards to Venus-Mars. 

Which I am certainly not (Venus in Capricorn, Mars in Sag). 

[12YearsABlob]

^ That's true, none of it is a hard-n-fast rule. I do think *some* elemental compatibility is good (either combination of A's Venus or A's Mars with Y's Venus or Y's mars).. But then I think, if we're talking elemental compatibility, wouldn't the first stop be the luminaries and their house placements/aspects? Pfft. Goin' around in circles.

[12YearsABlob]

Jun 3, 2018 19:31:39 GMT lumina said:

I do seem to find the triggering of the wounds often in synastries, too, however. But then again thinking of my parents or others, usually those harsh triggering of the wounds (you do have to open a wound to let air into it so it won`t fester and can heal - however a different thing is to put salt into it all the time, and continuously open it again, will also not give it time enough to heal) as indicated by some challenging aspects, usually is accompanied by soft aspects to at least one end of the issue-planets. 

Hmm, it seems that in a way I am actually all the time doing that to P, putting salt into his wound. 
I mean as nice it is to have my Sun-Mercury conjunct his Sun-Moon-MC, it ALSO means I am probably reminding him through my presence of that square to SAturn-DESC, as he has Sun and Moon squaring Saturn on the DESC. It`s both angular, Sun-Saturn is exact (26 Sag - 26 Virgo) - it certainly IS an issue. 

That's true about wounds being needed to be addressed in order to be healed. I guess, they need to be addressed 'the right way' - whatever that may be for the individual.

Now, since it's a square between two masculine planets (for him) - it might be handled differently. And in a way, anybody making *any* aspect to his Sun/Moon/MC cannot escape it. So he has to deal with it if he wants to connect with people.

There's the magic of synastry at work, eh? The universe holding up a mirror to ourselves. Forcing us to reckon with what we'd rather not confront. I guess, some amount of 'triggering' is unavoidable if you're going to dip your toes in any meaningful relationship.

So, you see, it isn't your fault, but the nature of relating. Or the nature of your relating to him. It's simply meant to be like that. Like an obstacle course. Gotta work through the Saturn square to get to the gooey Moon-Venus bonanza.

I'm a Sun-Saturn square person myself. Sooner or later - people who are close to me are going to feel it. They're going to feel the dichotomy there, the inherent tension. The period of 'Saturnian awakening' just has to be sailed through until we hit calmer waters. Maybe it's like that for him.

To make it more complicated, his moon is in the mix too. So there might be a simultaneous clinging to and wanting out of the Saturnian wall(?)

P.S. I wouldn't discount the wide trine, even if it wasn't part of a grand trine. Earth mars has a way of knowing what Earth venus needs...

[lumina]

12YearsABlob ,

"And in a way, anybody making *any* aspect to his Sun/Moon/MC cannot escape it. So he has to deal with it if he wants to connect with people. "

Yes, he will always Encounter the dichotomy of Sun-Moon in Sag at the MC, and Saturn in Virgo at the DESC. Can`t escape it. At least whenever something is strongly triggering his core nature (Sun-Moon), he will have to also bring in the conflict/ challenge of Saturn.

Well, I have Moon exactly quinkunx Saturn myself - while not the same aspect, the Moon-Saturn-theme is familiar to me.
Actually I think probably the greater (or greatest) issue in our synastry has to do with Mercury. While most aspects between mercurìe`s for us are quite strong and emphasized, there is this one here:

my Neptune conjuncts his Mercury exact
his Saturn squares my Mercury exact

At the Moment we are once more in the Saturn-Mercury-Phase of the cycle, following the Neptune-Mercury-one.
LOL
Well it is not that funny, but at times those make themselves certainly felt.




"P.S. I wouldn't discount the wide trine, even if it wasn't part of a grand trine. Earth mars has a way of knowing what Earth venus needs... "

Yes, i think it makes itself felt quite a bit actually. Interestingly the trine becomes exact in the synchronized solar arc.

[FruityLlama]

I keep thinking about this and trying to find the answer though unfortunately, hardly anyone can give me their TOB.

What I was wondering earlier today was that tight aspects around 0 degrees really are felt and tend to crop up in synastries. There may only be a few but they set the theme, or tone of the relationship.

For example, my neighbours are said to have really explosive rows, and my parents have said they can hear them sometimes. Quite a strange couple, but I got their birthdays and it turns out they have a really tight DW of Mars sq. Pluto! Christ!!

Me and my bf, one our tight aspects are Jupiter conjunct ASC (its actually exact).. I think its a double whammy with my Jupiter sextiling his ASC too but not as tight.. anyway, and despite our differing natures, the relationship is jovial and we laugh at each others mannerisms a lot haha

Mum and Dad: Moon exact sextile mars. I see Moon-Mars often too actually come to think of it. Im thinking more of what brings people together though. 

Let me go back and check others but I wanted to just put that there for now. I am beginning to think even wide orbs with luminaries might be a bit of a stretch. I might be wrong though because I don't know to the same extent as other astrologers here, but its something I'm starting to notice in synastry only.

[FruityLlama]

Also what are peoples thoughts on composites?
Okay, maybe I am wrong about what I said about luminaries. They seem common but always kind of wide..

[12YearsABlob]

Jun 5, 2018 19:38:57 GMT FruityLlama said:

Mum and Dad: Moon exact sextile mars. I see Moon-Mars often too actually come to think of it. Im thinking more of what brings people together though. 

Moon-Mars is one of my favourites! <3 Irresistible, because they're two primal forces.

Might not be everyone's cup of tea, though..And I guess it depends on the aspect.  

But I agree it'll almost always 'work' in the sense that - they'll feel the pull.

[lumina]

Jun 5, 2018 20:07:32 GMT FruityLlama said:

Also what are peoples thoughts on composites?
Okay, maybe I am wrong about what I said about luminaries. They seem common but always kind of wide..

Very much in Play, Composites I mean.

Luminaries also "work" due to their signbackground, still tight aspects do tell us something too (esp. since they are activated at the same time)

[clementine]

In my personal life and as a consulting astrologer, here are some things I've noted:

Jupiter contacts to personal planets, especially the luminaries, are powerful! Especially conjunctions and oppositions. Especially if the planet affected is unaspected or afflicted. This doesn't promise a romantic connection (although Jupiter-Mars can be quite erotic), but does give both partners a sense of elation around each other and a sense of forgiveness and tolerance for the other's quirks. This is a contact that helps sustain relationships through hard times with a sense of humor and faith.

Conjunctions are felt most intensely, but don't necessarily promise longevity. We'll notice someone who conjuncts our personal planets or angles as somehow more alive, more interesting, more alluring, or even more irritating.

Erotic connection is incredibly difficult to predict because the same aspects that promise chemistry can also cause friction, irritation, competition, and power issues. All we can predict when we see strong Mars or Pluto contacts is that IF these two get intimate (emotionally or physically), they'll have strong sparks. One or both of them might also feel scared or unsettled by the potential intensity of this contact and shut it down before it gets intimate.

Saturn does seem linked to longevity, but longevity isn't always a good thing. When thinking about what "works" in synastry, we have to think about what kind of relationships we consider successful. Are they just the longest relationships, even if one or both people are miserable?

I love synastry, and even as I work with couples I feel I'm always learning more about it. One thing I know for certain is that there is no one formula for the perfect relationship, astrologically—we all need different things and our own needs evolve over time. In my twenties. I only found myself attracted to people who had planets squaring my 7th house Mars. In my forties, I'm more attracted to people whose charts do nice things to my afflicted Moon!

[Deleted]

I would say depending on the chart. Chart ruler and the ruler of the moon are very important. I find it extremely painful to deal with ppl whose mars energy i do not sync with. I really appreciate men with a more dominant mars: Scorpio, Leo, Capricorn and Aries. And mars is the ruler of my moon. It’s even more frustrating when composite mars is badly aspected (ie dampened by a Neptune square)

Venus is my chart ruler and I find that I prefer nice aspects to my venus. I’m also someone who has a rather flowy chart with mostly conjunction and trine. I have sun square Pluto but other wise I don’t find myself having to deal with conflicting sides of myself. My moon is 3rd place from my sun and I prefer ppl whose moons are also third place from their suns, even if their elements are different.

Geometry is actually hugely important but probably more so depending on certain chart. My moon is a skipped step so I am only seriously interested in libras born 9/26-10/1, where their suns oppose my moon, creating a grand cross with my nodes.

In composites, I’ve found that mystic rectangle restores my balance with ppl I actually am very different from.

Planets in 7th aren’t that important to me. Planets aspecting 7th, 5th, 8th rulers are great but aspects by signs are fine too

[vds]

Easy (trine, sectile) aspects to luminaries
Conjunctions between Venus and Mars (even really wide orbs work here)
Jupiter aspects to Sun/Moon/Venus (joy)

[vds]

I use 5 to 6 degrees for the sake of my learning curve, but luminaries are know to go above and beyond 😁

[lumina]

Today I am inclined to use 6 degrees myself. LOL and signbackgrounds in terms of personal planets.

[FruityLlama]

I'm making a spreadsheet of couples at the moment, hopefully I can make a big database at some point. Currently there are only 6 in my database, along with couples who have split, but Ive included people who lasted over three years together. I'm starting broad and basic and then hopefully I can narrow it down later.

I am using ptolemaic aspects only right now btw and including up to 9deg but am making a note of it because as I said I'll narrow down

The current situation looks like this: all of them have close Moon-Mars contacts, 5/6 have close Venus-Pluto contacts (I think this aspect only really plays out when its close tbh) and Sun-Moon, 4/6 have moon-pluto and sun-venus.

Now, for what works, I tried to address this with a definition of longevity, but hopefully if I amalgamate enough of those who are still together and those who aren't and compare, hopefully it can give me a better idea. But the above aspects seem to be prevalent in bringing people together at least.

This will be a long process by the way and its really just my crazy way of relaxing on an evening after writing my dissertation/revising so plz bear with.

[lumina]

Aug 5, 2018 19:57:54 GMT Ava said:

I was reading this earlier today...didn't know Venus trine Saturn could be so potent:


thanks for sharing that. Lancelot have that as DW. His Venus at 13 Pisces trine my Saturn at 16 Cancer. his Saturn at 7 Virgo trines my Venus at 6 Cap. In the composite however that turns into an opposition. (well without delving too deeply into it, it simply indicates it is one of the core patterns, as any conjunction or opposition in a composite shows).


P and his wife have that as well (her Saturn sextiles his Venus, and when they started their relationship his pr Moon was trine her Saturn closely (though at the same time opposing his own Saturn); last year they had the opposite thing going on (his pr Moon trine his pr Venus, but opposing her Saturn). 


my Mom`s Venus (and Mars) is conjunct my Dad`s Saturn (and ASC) closely. 


Though I do think the connection in my parents chart is the strongest. I don`t think a one way trine or sextile of Venus and Saturn is really that potent on their own, however it does give a nice stability to a synastry, which in the case of trine and sextile might be just there, but never really getting spoken about. More like a bit of a cushioning underneath. 


Well P and me do not have the Venus-Saturn-thing, though my Saturn is contraparallel his Venus (which is probably not that pleasant to him. lol). At present his pr Venus is at around 13 Pisces and trines my pr Saturn at 13 Cancer, after that his pr Venus will move forwards to trine my pr DESC at 14 Cancer, my n Saturn at 16-17 Cancer, and also conjunct my n Juno at 16-17 Pisces and my pr Jupiter at around 18 Pisces (unless by then it will already be at 19 Pisces by then). 

[lumina]

FruityLlama

that is definitely a great undertaking!


However I sometimes wonder if we draw certain synastries into our lives and therefore we observe certain patterns, but someone else might observe a different pattern?

For example, I did not observe the Moon-Mars-pattern, though it of course definitely makes sense!
I do observe however a lot of Sun-Moon, planets to the angles, often including the luminaries, nodal conjunctions and squares and interestingly Jupiter to Mars (or Venus).


For example: 

My parents: 

Moon-Mars: no
Sun-Moon: Yes (her Sun opposes his Moon with 2 degrees; his Sun widely trines her Moon at around 7 degrees, but out of sign)
Venus-Pluto: No
Moon-Pluto: No
Sun-Venus: No


my brother and his wife: 

Moon-Mars: no
Sun-Moon: well, very widely, his Sun opposes her Moon at 9 degrees (however her natal Sun-Moon-opposition overlays hisASC-DESC)
Venus-Pluto: hyes, his Pluto trines her Venus with 4 degrees
Moon-Pluto: no
Sun-Venus: no


my best friend and her husband (I think they will tick your boxes)

Moon-Mars: Yes (trine and sextile)
Sun-Moon: Yes (his Sun squares her Moon)
Venus-Pluto: Yes (his Pluto conjuncts her Venus)
Moon-Pluto: Yes (trine and opposition, with 4 degrees each) 
Sun-Venus: Yes (his Sun squares her Venus)


P and an ex-girlfriend (longterm relationship though)
Moon-Mars: No
Sun-Moon: no
Venus-Pluto: yes (his Pluto trine her Venus)
Moon-Pluto: no
Sun-Venus: Yes (his Sun sextile her Venus)


P and his wife

Moon-Mars: no
Sun-Moon: no
Venus-Pluto: yes (his Pluto opposes her Venus with 4 degrees)
Moon-Pluto: no
Sun-Venus: no


my best friend and an ex-boyfriend (longterm and decidedly unpassionate)

Moon-Mars: yes (sextile)
Sun-Moon: yes (his Moon widely square her Sun at 6 degrees)
Venus-Pluto: yes (his Pluto conjuncts her Venus)
Moon-Pluto: yes (his Moon sextile her Pluto)
Sun-Venus: no


It seems my friend indeed feels drawn to Moon-Mars-synastry where members of my family apparently do not.