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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2018 22:52:38 GMT
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Post by Ava on Jan 16, 2018 0:02:42 GMT
It's revolting.
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Post by FruityLlama on Jan 18, 2018 17:48:48 GMT
Are you referring to him calling them s-holes?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2018 20:05:21 GMT
Yes! He referred to them as shithole countries.
Earlier in June 2107 he said 15,000 recent immigrants from Haiti “all have AIDS” and that 40,000 Nigerians, once seeing the United States, would never “go back to their huts” in Africa.
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Post by FruityLlama on Jan 18, 2018 21:30:22 GMT
Calling them shitholes isn't racist though. The thing he said about Haiti is stupid, if he actually said that. Although some parts of the world are more prone to certain diseases and stuff aren't they which is why they need different screening approaches for occupational health checks, for example. Still probably not a good thing to say so callously though.
The thing about Nigerians is implying that they want to better themselves, no? I mean, in a very distasteful way, yes. But that's the thing; Trump is a crude person. We all know that now! He says dumb things, but he isn't racist to call some countries shitholes. The people from those countries would probably agree with him! Haiti certainly does, that's why they want to move out, find somewhere better to live and why they said so in interviews that were conveniently not aired by mainstream media. In fact Haiti is a shithole largely thanks to the Clintons stealing all that foreign aid money.
Trump is who he is, but there's a lot of bullshit in the media and if we're not careful we will end up with Pence instead (if people are that hell bent on getting him impeached). Pence, who is way worse apparently. That said, I'll agree that Trump does himself no favours by being crude and un-PC. But I am also sick of seeing the same robotic scaredy-cat politicians who just say nice things to get people on side and then do nothing about anything.
I don't know, he is annoying and I am worried he will trigger someone somewhere who we don't want to trigger.
but when it comes down to it, if people are so eager to hate him then why not the other side of the coin too? There was not nearly as much outrage for the things Clinton and Obama did. Instead they're praised and almost worshipped. In fact Obama's state department said that people shouldn't visit Haiti for fear of being kidnapped or murdered, which to me is what a shithole sounds like.
However, I can understand people's upset to an extent as a president shouldn't go around being tasteless and instead addressing why its a shithole, or not a place of optimum satisfaction lets say, and do something about it. If it is that bad and part of N.America then he should do something. Same as Puerto Rico.
Or even if he didn't call it that, what did Obama ever do for Haiti either?
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Post by anela on Jan 18, 2018 23:38:23 GMT
He wanted to know why we had so many immigrants from those countries, and not "better" ones like Norway. I guess he thinks those countries are entirely white, which they aren't, that I'm aware of.
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Post by Ava on Jan 19, 2018 0:09:12 GMT
If he had any respect whatsoever for the inhabitants of these countries, he wouldn't demean them this way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2018 15:40:29 GMT
FruityLlama , Glad you spoke your mind. These things need to be discussed to clarify how people view things. I think that Trump's stance is inherently racist. He writes off an entire country and its people and categorizes them in the same bracket as others regardless of differences. Racists view the world thru a single lens - because of a certain trait (like the colour of ones skin) the people must be lazy, stupid, devious, primitive, uncivilised, or live in huts, etc. Haiti, for example, has been battered by the worst natural disasters in the past 10 years - earthquake and hurricanes one after the other, the latter of which even left American soil devastated. Oxfam, one of the charities working there recently installed solar street lighting. It was amazing to see how school children gathered around these street lights to do their homework. Their resilience and optimism was admirable. Haiti was colonised by the French followed by American takeovers of its people and resources. Read here: www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-quigley/why-the-us-owes-haiti-bil_b_426260.htmlIn light of the above, Trump displays a crude ignorance of history, which because of his white supremacist views he would happily disregard. Again, to imply that Nigerians must all live in huts is a typical racist comment. Nigeria is the richest country in Africa, however, for Trump, since it is African and black, it must be a 'shithole'. Incidentally, he forgets that USA was a country populated by economic migrants in the first instance. It is proven again and again that it is people with the vision, hardiness and aspirations to improve their lives who inject a vigour in economic activity which benefits the host nation. Trump needs to be criticised for what he is - that does not mean that one is concurrently saying that Obama did a good job of supporting countries in need. And most certainly, the Clintons and Obama have a lot to answer for.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2018 23:03:05 GMT
To expand further on how racist attitudes can manifest --
Edward Said, a Palestinian American scholar, coined the term "Orientalism" to refer to a general patronising attitude by writers, designers and artists from the West towards Middle Eastern, Asian and North African societies. This was the quieter face of racism, but undesirable nonetheless. People from the Orient were depicted as child-like, exotic, static, irrational in comparison to Western society which is developed, rational, flexible, and superior.
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Post by FruityLlama on Jan 20, 2018 11:10:48 GMT
@astrokeen you make some very good points and I do agree that Trump is an ignorant man from what I can see. You are right about the Nigerian comment, upon reflection. I have friends from that country, who do complain about it actually, but to say something that implies they all live in huts is a bit much.
I wasn't sure if it was inherently racist though when I interpreted it, but you give a very good explanation haha. I get pedantic in these kinds of arguments because I feel a lot of people are verging on hysteria. But to be honest, Trump does not do a lot to quell it does he. I can see both sides of the argument.
My general view is that, when you take whatever Trump has said and done, and most other presidents of yesteryear, there's not too much difference at the heart of it. Its just that Trump isn't politically correct when he talks about it. But I do understand why people are constantly upset with him haha.
I think its important to not divide over politics, too, and to listen to what people have to say. There's too much intolerance going on in the name of tolerance, ironically.
Im glad people are tolerant here. I always get shouted down for counter arguing, especially with those my age who are in love with the far left.
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Post by whisperix on Jan 21, 2018 16:44:13 GMT
Personally I give Trump that much credit that he insults nearly everybody by race, religion and sex. As I am a woman, non-American and do not belong to any religion I should be offended by..... I have no time to watch the news that much, but I always get an update from a friend as to what is happening in Trumpland. My personal picture of this tweeting world leader in my head is not nice.  |
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Post by Ava on Jan 21, 2018 17:27:50 GMT
I get pedantic in these kinds of arguments because I feel a lot of people are verging on hysteria. Right, it's not that every single thing he does is bad. I don't always move with the "herd mentality" but after a guy's been proven a serial sexual predator, I have no more time for him. Just like I think no one's discussing Jerry Sandusky's sports highlights at this point, or Bill Cosby's great timing when he did stand up. Predators are frightening and an air of sobriety enshrouds them, in my mind. Especially for women who are victims of assault and rape, to see people championing, defending, and making excuses for someone who admitted himself that his attitude is to just "grab them by the p*ssy," and who walked in on young girls in their changing room, and all these other allegations which do look credible and are corroborated by third parties....it's just pouring salt in the collective wound of the female psyche. It's like, "Does nobody understand or care about just DAMAGING rape is? Are we still being called liars and told to just shut up and take it?" Same with race comments. These third world countries have been ransacked, oppressed, cheated, taken advantage of, enslaved to the IMF, etc. The people themselves have striven to maintain their dignity, wearing bright cultures, preserving their arts, cuisine, music, and heritage. For all their effort to make the best of a hard situation, we're going to call the whole country a shithole? That really upsets me, you're robbing them of everything they stand for, as a nation. |
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Post by FruityLlama on Jan 22, 2018 8:21:11 GMT
I agree with your paragraph about victims of assault and rape. I for one know how damaging it is. That's what pisses me off about the comedian Frankie Boyle and supporters of the left in this country, as they are the ones telling rape victims of gang cultures to shut up in the name of "racial equality" and "diversity". But anyway that's different rant for a different day haha!! I just pointed out in the other thread that I thought it was disproven about him being a sexual predator. I found some reports that said people were paid by Bloom to say stuff. I mean, he still could be of course, but with the total flaming hysteria that people have created around him makes me just think its another fanatic trying to get something on him. That's my perception anyway. I do get womaniser vibes off him but that's not really the same. Ive spoken to many people from many different countries at this point and I can tell you most of them would agree that their home country (depending on where theyre from) is a shithole. You can romanticise it as much as you like, but most people do not enjoy living in places that are corrupt and poverty stricken. Greece is one example that is now... less than satisfactory. A country with years and years of history, music arts and heritage and all that. But its gone down the drain now and that's why many try to get away from it. My friends parents tell them to get the F out if they can. They're in a very shit situation..  I've lived in shitholes in my own country, its a shithole because of poverty and corruption, its not inherently a race thing. For the most part it isn't their fault, like Haiti so I agree it is unkind to call it a shithole as if it is. It was actually the Clintons, so I don't think the Haitians care very much what Trump says as long as Hillary isn't in charge of their money. This is taken from some interviews I watched that weren't aired in mainstream media, unsurprisingly. I've not met anyone from Haiti as yet though. But my point is, are we really still that surprised when Trump says not nice things?! He is a dick and we all know it. He is just more honest about it though, not like these slimy, manipulative real politicians. I think we should preoccupy ourselves with more important things, that's all, than whether Trump has hurt anyone's feelings or not. Maybe we should push Trump to start thinking about helping Haiti and Puerto Rico instead of shouting ARSEHOLE! at any given opportunity. I know he has plans to improve shitholes like Detroit.. The more we scream and protest about Trump the more he revels in it... can't people see? He is a game player, they all are! |
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Post by Ava on Jan 22, 2018 13:30:09 GMT
FruityLlama, "Ive spoken to many people from many different countries at this point and I can tell you most of them would agree that their home country..." Many people from these countries are voicing their outrage on social media. "The more we scream and protest about Trump the more he revels in it... can't people see? He is a game player, they all are!" I think the protests are largely genuine. So it's a natural expression of feeling, not a strategy. Also it's a way that people are communicating with each other over top of him. Clearly many Americans hate being represented by this person and they want the world to know that.
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Post by FruityLlama on Jan 22, 2018 15:43:28 GMT
Ava I was talking about people I had spoken to myself in person, so my point was based on those people and experiences. Others may say differently of course, but my point is not whether Trump was rude or offensive or not, but whether it is true at the heart of it. Are they outraged because of the insult or because it is untrue? And I am not questioning whether protests are genuine or not, I am just pointing out how I think in some respects the media has overhyped and infused hysteria into most of Trumps movements and utterances that's all, hence protests. People will have different perspectives, which is great! I find it interesting talking to people about politics to see what their views are takes on things are. We all have different experiences, friends and other influences. Its difficult to get to the bottom of things in politics, and to know what is absolutely correct or not. But it is interesting discovering what other people have come across, where their sources are from etc.
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