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Post by FruityLlama on Dec 12, 2017 18:11:34 GMT
Have you noticed any patterns? I have been looking at mine and some others' unrequited love charts. There are three of them so its not a massive database but the only thing that is common in them all is a hard aspect between Pluto and Mars. Sometimes I was the beloved, sometimes I was the one with unrequited love but in the two that I was featured in, I was Pluto both times. They were both squares. I have had another unrequited scenario whereby they liked me, but I'm not sure if it counts because I was fond of them, but not enough to get with them. Our synastry there is not particularly interesting. No pluto-mars aspects at all. There is Moon Venus square DW though. EDIT: Just found another, its unrequited 'something'. I am Pluto. (Gosh, its not like I am some sort of man magnet, some of these are from high school by the way haha. I just want a bit more data to go on.) Between my friends, it was the girl who was the Pluto and she did not return the feelings of this guy (Mars). This was the sesquisquare within orb. But apart from that the synastry was alright. They have sun trine sun and venus-mars trine DW! They do also have moon opposite venus. They do have Uranus sq.Venus, her being Uranus. But his Uranus squares her moon and mercury. He does kind of make her feel strange sometimes. Lovely guy, but sometimes says and does things a bit odd, so maybe that's something? They also had Neptune square Venus, she was Neptune. But I have had synastries with Neptune sq.Venus, and I was Neptune, and liked the other (celebrities lols). The only thing is, sometimes these are generational aren't they? E.g with the person that I was fond of, his Uranus squared my sun and moon too but I have those natally and we are the same age. Everyone weirds me out in my generation ahaha! I did re read some threads on LL- from that I originally looked into Neptune sq. Venus but ended up looking at Mars-Pluto and some other stuff. Just want to collate some info on this specially for AstroGarden
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Post by FruityLlama on Dec 12, 2017 18:30:26 GMT
There is another couple where there was unrequited love. They had Saturn sq.Venus DW but the guy was obsessed. Girls pluto sq mars again. His venus exactly square her asc.
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Post by FruityLlama on Dec 12, 2017 19:00:14 GMT
Although I think the nature and reasons for unrequited love can differ a lot. Just been looking at friendship synastries. With one I have moon square mercury and venus square mercury. We misunderstood each other in terms of values and emotional expression which might have put a wedge there
I was pluto to their moon as well in another square.
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Post by lumina on Dec 13, 2017 6:43:20 GMT
FruityLlamainteresting oberservation. Well it doesn`t seem to fit all the time (Robert Browning and Elizabeth Barrett Browning had a close square, and according to the biographies were very much besotted with each other; Johnny Cash and June Carter had the sesisquare and well their love story is legendary, though it does make me smile to think that he had to put REAL effort into convincing her), but then again what astrological configuration does fit ALL the time anyway?
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Post by lumina on Dec 13, 2017 7:12:39 GMT
Another couple I know had the exact opposition; they did eventually break up, but that was after a relationship of about 15 years, in which they were also living together.
Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall had the opposition as well (he was Mars). well they seemed to have been happily married until his death.
However the common thread I`ve found so far was that the Mars-Pluto tense aspect, including sesisquare and possibly semisquare, come with a fair share of drama at the onset. Often also breaking the rules of society (for example Bogey was still married when meeting Bacall).
Maybe that kind of drama can manifest in unrequited feelings or in another way that sets the connection somehow apart from the "mainstream".
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Post by Ava on Dec 13, 2017 12:40:22 GMT
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Post by lumina on Dec 13, 2017 17:10:25 GMT
I guess my point is, we can look to the desire nature of each person and get a sense of how the other person plays into that. It will probably be different for everyone. I think that is very true.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 18:14:09 GMT
I have mars sextile Pluto and presumably do with the rest of my generation....
I don’t return affection to lots of ppl lol. I don’t think that’s the case...
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Post by FruityLlama on Dec 13, 2017 20:18:40 GMT
Yeah I suppose its hard to pin it on the outer planets.
What about inner planets then? I don't believe that love or dislike can be generated by synatsry, but rather a form of how certain things can be played out in synastry. But I am interested in those things that could end up expressed as something like unrequited love
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Post by lumina on Dec 13, 2017 22:00:15 GMT
It probably is a mix of several things. Maybe one of the things could be that one person is not really fitting the partner profile of the other. though of course we would have to know how to determine partner profile. I have my thoughts on this, but even that might not be generalized but depending on how the whole chart is looking. For example the ruler of my 7th house is very much indicative of my personal partner profile. It is in Sagittarius conjunct Sun. But it does fit my other personal planets,s o I guess it is easy to deduce in my case. But what for a person whose 7th house ruler will contradict pretty much everything else in their charts, especially the inner planets? I do think that the inner planets and certain houserulers and planets in houses will have a lot to say, but it still is not easy to deduce. I don´t think this here is the answer to it all, but I liked Dawn Bodrogis article on that, even though it is probably not differentiated enough for me, even though it is already very differentiated. theinnerwheel.com/2009/09/21/synastry-studies-the-inner-script/I think it is a major piece of the puzzle, but it is only ONE piece/ variable. Then there might be the relations to the composite. How each person is affected by the composite. And then I always wonder if sometimes temporary things overshadow the whole, esp. in shortlived scenarios. So progressed charts, might also have their say. what I think is that we have to start with the natals of course. only after that synastry gets some depth. And then there is that thing about a range of manifestation. maybe on one end of the spectre there is the unrequited love scenario, but there might be other ways something expresses itself. I don´t think there is an easy answer as of yet, but maybe we can at least approach the likelihood of an answer.
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Post by Ava on Dec 14, 2017 3:35:28 GMT
Thanks, lumina . I'm copying that article here, because her font is too hard to read. I'm also putting some stuff in bold. --- "Synastry Studies: The Inner Script The Inner Script: Do I get the part? We started this series discussing ways that we can project qualities we feel we don’t own and how it influences our choice of partner. Both the sign on the 2nd house and the sign on the 12th indicate what we are looking for via the Descendant. (See parts one and two: the Second house and the Twelfth house and the Double Inconjunct.) This week, we’re going to get back to some Synastry 101 and start talking about what we do own and how it influences our choices. A natal chart needs to be analyzed for its relationship signatures before we can compare it to another chart for compatibility. I don’t see this much talked about in astrological circles anymore, though it was once considered the most important part of a synastry. Because if what I have to offer doesn’t fit your inner pattern of what a partner is, you will not consider me as a potential mate, no matter how many interaspects we have between our charts. This inner script of partnership determines for us who is a potential partner and who is not. Angle contacts between charts should be considered first, particularly angle rulers conjuncting angles, (see Synastry Q & A: Angle Contacts); relationships can carry on for some time on mutual angle contacts alone. But beyond the direct stimulation of the angles, we will seek out partners who will embody and live out our ‘inner partner’ for us. (I’m going to apologize upfront here because I haven’t had enough experience doing charts of same sex couples to make generalizations about their synastry. I’ve done over a thousand synastries over the years, and the same sex couples I’ve worked with number under a hundred. I have a notion of how the model works from talking to clients, but it isn’t backed up with enough research. So in discussing internal archetypes, I’m using heterosexual couples as a model. I hope to get more insight on archetypes for same sex couples as time goes on.) The Basics: According to Jungian psychology, we each carry a male and a female archetype within us. This inner image of other determines who we consider as partnership material. One of the great advantages of astrology is that it provides an illustration for that archetype. We have a map that gives us a short cut to understanding our mysterious, internal ‘other half.’ Traditionally, we take a look at Moon/Venus for men and Sun/Mars for women, and add that to the sign on the Descendant and any planets there. (Planets there are often projected onto the partner.) Hard, tight aspects to Saturn and the outer planets will also effect choice, particularly conjunctions and squares. A man with Venus tightly bound up with Pluto will choose partners who will bring him intense Plutonian experiences, for better or worse. He may choose relationships that begin with intense passion, then devolve into power struggles. A woman with Sun/Uranus may find herself attracted to intellectuals or constantly involved in long-distance relationships. On the one hand, yes, the partner is teaching us more about our relationship to these planets, but on the other, this planetary placement is simply a part of who we are, and will not change. Our inner scripts are pretty much set from birth. We may choose better partners as we learn about ourselves, but our basic inclinations to partnership will not change. If a woman has Sun conjunct Pluto, she may evolve from choosing controlling partners to men who have a more positive expression of the Scorpio archetype, but the basic inclination to Pluto will remain. Example: A man has Venus in Pisces, Moon in Capricorn. He meets a woman who is a Capricorn with Sun conjunct Neptune. Her Sun is in the sign of his Moon. Her Sun/Neptune also fits his Piscean inclinations. There are no direct aspects between the charts in the traditional sense, but it doesn’t matter in terms of initial attraction. Whatever differences arise, he sees this woman as a natural partner. Add the fact that he has Aquarius on the Descendant and she is loaded with Aquarius planets. Even without direct aspects, his Aquarius Descendant is looking to fill the gap of ‘not I,’ which she happily supplies. Example: A woman has Mars conjunct the Descendant. Of her male signatures, her Mars is in Pisces and her Sun is in Virgo in the 12th. The Neptune influence is strong here, but the standard gentle Piscean archetype is thrown by the very prominent Mars. Her longest and deepest relationships have been with very artistic (and ambitious) Aries men, and Mars has been prominent in nearly all of her previous relationships. This is enhanced by the fact that Mars rules her eighth house. She chooses men who live out her Mars, even though her own Mars is highly developed. In the first example, there are no obvious aspects between charts, and yet the relationship is going the distance (so far) as the inner script is so well fulfilled. Searching for traditional ‘Venus trine Mars’ type aspects would reveal nothing about why these people are together. In the second, it would be easy to assume that the Piscean type would dominate, without understanding the importance of the Aries/Martian influence on the angle. It also illustrates the permanence of planetary influence. Even when we claim the relationship planets of the opposite sex for our own, (living out Sun/Mars for women; Moon/Venus for men) they still influence our choice of partner. Sometimes, it works one way and not the other. You may fill my script, but I may not fill yours. When this happens, I think of you as partner material, and you think of me as a friend. The inner script often explains a lot about one way attractions. I may have Mars in Aquarius and the Sun in Leo in the 9th. You may be a Sag with Mars in Leo and an 11th house Moon, and I may be floored by your fire and air. However, your Moon in Cancer and Venus in Virgo may have nothing to do with my planets or placements. I will see you as a potential partner, but you will not see me that way. These basic signatures need to be looked at before we begin looking at interaspects. Of the relationship pairings, the Moon is the more primal and Venus more easily acknowledged. Of the male signatures, Mars is more primal than the Sun. It is easier for these primal planets to be projected onto others, whereas Venus and the Sun are primarily about taste. The woman with the 12th house Virgo Sun may have the Piscean/Martian archetype dominant and may not as a whole, go for Virgo men, but neither will she be attracted to a guy who’s always got ketchup running down his shirt. As women get older, their relationship to their Sun changes. The more they live their Sun (particularly after age 36 and the third Jupiter return), the less dominant it becomes as an attraction factor. As men get older, their relationship to their Moon changes –they become more nurturing (and self-nurturing) after the Uranus opposition, which comes somewhere around the same time as the half-way point of the second progressed lunar return (very roughly speaking, depending on the orbit of Uranus). It becomes less likely that we will project father/mother issues onto our partners, or expect our partners to live out some unlived part of ourselves. Traditional astrology will not tell you that houses matter for the relationship planets. They do, particularly for the Sun. House position isn’t as strong as sign, but they do have influence over choices. The solar energy is notoriously difficult to pinpoint (see my series on Solar Fire, August), so the house it finds itself in colours our perception of the Sun, giving us something to grab on to. A fourth house Sun puts its energy into fourth house matters, making it more Cancerian, even if the sign is Sag. If a woman has her Mars in Cancer, a man with a fourth house Sun may fit the bill (depending on the rest of the chart). If I’m a man with my Moon in the fifth house and Venus in the eighth, I will most likely be attracted to women who give off a sexual vibe in one way or another and who are not afraid to express themselves creatively or sexually. (The fifth house rules the type of relationships that are more casual than those we find in the seventh. We learn how to express ourselves in relationship there.) There are a number of areas that traditional astrology does not cover in synastry, and that is what we will be exploring here over the next weeks. We all learn early on that Sun/Moon is one type of pairing of opposites, Venus/Mars another. However, Saturn plays an enormous role in relationships, particularly as we mature. One of the things we will be discussing is the importance of Saturn as a relationship planet—not just as relationship ‘glue’, but as a basic function of relationship itself. (Saturn is exalted in Libra for a reason.) In particular, we’ll be discussing the fact that male sexuality/identity is more complex than it’s given credit for. Upcoming articles will cover synastry contacts with the Nodes of the Moon, and Chiron and its role in healing through relationship."
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Post by Ava on Dec 14, 2017 3:42:11 GMT
I'd also look at Juno.
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Post by lumina on Dec 14, 2017 13:54:08 GMT
If considering asteroids, I would actually look at Juno, Ceres and Eros. I suspect Eros being pretty important in this instance, cause often "unrequited love" really is a lack of "sexual chemistry/attraction" by one person. Or put differently, without an erotic spark being present, we probably would not consider getting into a romantic relationship with somebody, at least not in this day and age and part of the world at least I am living in (Europe). Of course the commitment (Juno) and the nurturing and caring (Ceres) has to be present as well, but honestly speaking, I also find that in very deep intimate friendships, that I would NOT want to make sexual though. There might be different reasons to get into a relationship,e ven nowadays, but would we really consider it, if the "spark" is missing? To MAINTAIN that relationship is a different pair of shoes, of course.
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Post by lumina on Dec 14, 2017 13:56:09 GMT
LOL I just realize that I have all these asteroid in water signs; Juno and Ceres in Pisces in 3rd house and Eros in Cancer in 8th house. However Juno is trine Saturn exact and Eros is conjunct Saturn widely, and I think that overshadows the wateryiness of these asteroids for me.
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Post by lumina on Dec 14, 2017 18:50:13 GMT
LOL my asteroids are as introvert as yours are extrovert. Not that tightly interconnected as yours though, it`s pretty awesome, is it a cradle in your chart?
I have Cancer Eros, Capricorn Vesta, Pisces Ceres, Pisces Juno, Cancer Saturn, not interconnected much though.
Eros on 21 Cancer Vesta on 1 Capricorn Ceres on 9 Pisces Juno on 17 Pisces Saturn on 17 Cancer
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Post by Ava on Dec 14, 2017 23:22:29 GMT
Yes, I guess that's a cradle? Even moreso when we put my 0° Libra Child into the cradle. (If he still fits)
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Post by clementine on Jun 16, 2018 2:37:52 GMT
I've been doing some synastry research, mostly into indicators of sexual attraction, drawing from my own life because I know my own experiences best. I'm not sure how much I can generalize from this, but it could be a fun experiment to try with your own charts. So far, I'm only focusing on Mars interaspects, but I may expand this project and look at all the personal planets. I've had a bit of a wild life, y'all, so don't blush at the large pool of people I'm drawing from here. I've found that from a pool of about 35 people that I've either been with or had wild crushes on, here are the statistics: The most common interaspects in each case were squares or oppositions between one person's Mars and the other's Sun, Moon, or Neptune (though that might be generational). I'm highly Neptunian, so that makes sense. And with Mars in my 7th conjunct Jupiter, I do like a challenge. Less frequent but still significant: Mars trines to Pluto (mostly generational, though), Mars trines to Saturn, and Mars trines or sextiles to Sun. What's interesting is that when I divided this pool into people I'd been lovers or partners with and people I'd only yearned for (or who had yearned for me), I found that in the "unrequited" pool the most common aspect was Mars trine Venus. One theory is that these were relationships where friendship felt too important to risk disrupting for at least one of us. One thing that never showed up in the "unrequited" category? Mars aspects to the Vertex—each time those showed up they seemed to spur on an actual romance, however short-lived. The interesting thing about trying to categorize "unrequited love" is that to some degree the love is always requited, it's just the desires that may be mismatched, and how they match (or mismatch) may change over time. I had one partner whom I loved from afar and then dated off and on for a year. He just wasn't that into me and kept breaking my heart. After some time apart, he fell in love with me and, once I trusted he was serious, we dated for many years. I eventually broke his heart when I outgrew the relationship. He was still in love with me for a few years after I had moved on—so we both had periods of feeling unrequited and requited. My Mars is square his Sun, Venus and Mercury; his Mars is conjunct my Vertex and sextile my Moon. There were a few dramatic turning points in our connection—the first time I saw him I thought "That's the sexiest human being I've ever seen. I'll never have the guts to talk to him." It took me a year to work up the courage, and then we went home together that very night. But it wasn't till about a year later that he decided he was in love with me, quite out of the blue, to me. And then years later, something shifted in me almost overnight when I fell out of love with him. It was like waking up from a beautiful dream that I wished I could dream again, but I couldn't help being awake. The other Mars-Vertex connection I had was with someone who pursued me for a long time while I had no attraction to him, until one day I suddenly decided to give him a chance. We dated for three years, even though I was never very attracted to him. That close Mars-Vertex conjunction seemed to overrule a lack of other significant Mars interaspects (my Mars is very loosely square his Mercury and Venus). In this case, he broke up with me and I was completely blindsided.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jun 16, 2018 5:40:48 GMT
I think some people are more prone to being in such situations. If you are so inclined (or have some kind of avoidant attachment style) - unrequited love can be your thing.
It's much safer than 'real' love. Actually getting what they want can be scary and ovewhelming (for these people). They'll never admit it, *but* they prefer the fantasy. The untarnishable idea of the person, rather than a flesh-n-blood human being with their own set of insecurities and imperfections. Real relationships aren't predictable - much as we try to make them. And not knowing whether it can last, is nothing short of terrifying. In their mind, if it stays in their mind - it can last forever and a day.
The other scenario, is when someone does not really have this pattern, but all of a sudden finds themselves in the throes of an unrequited love. Then, the synastry (or the other person) might play a more prominent role. Then you have the outer planet steamrollering somebody's chart. And/or one person's chart being all lit up by the other person's planets but the other person's chart not touched at all. "Not feelin' it, bruh".
^ Could be on any level - Mars, Venus, or any mix of planets that are imbalanced in synastry. For instance, if your Jupiter makes good aspects to their luminaries but their Saturn makes an ouchy aspect to yours. *You* might make them feel great, and love making them feel great. But they do nothing for you. (over-simplifying, but you get what I mean).
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Post by lumina on Jun 16, 2018 12:24:59 GMT
It's much safer than 'real' love. Actually getting what they want can be scary and ovewhelming (for these people). They'll never admit it, *but* they prefer the fantasy. The untarnishable idea of the person, rather than a flesh-n-blood human being with their own set of insecurities and imperfections. Real relationships aren't predictable - much as we try to make them. And not knowing whether it can last, is nothing short of terrifying. In their mind, if it stays in their mind - it can last forever and a day.
Exactly! Great description. (It is not even the love-part, more the flesh-and-blood thing. lol=) Mars-Neptune on ASC, Venus square Pluto, Saturn in 8th house - sais it all I guess.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2018 13:31:26 GMT
I don’t have unrequited love because I’m too doom and gloom. Ppl can convince me for a year and if they don’t make me comfortable with them, ie. I don’t find the reality of us real enough then it doesn’t cut it for me. So I’m not surprised if ppl with lots of Saturn/ earth don’t go through hat kind of emotion
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