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Post by Ava on Sept 16, 2017 12:40:28 GMT
I know I must have talked about this before, possibly in a forum far, far away....
I have tended to keep draconics simple, in line with my limited ability to grasp them mathematically and metaphysically. I tend to focus only on conjunctions and oppositions in draconic synastry, or draco-to-tropical. The draco composite? Seems too far-fetched.
But I am getting more and more convinced, they're worth considering.
Any opinions?
I'll talk more below...
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Post by lumina on Sept 17, 2017 12:52:28 GMT
But I am getting more and more convinced, they're worth considering. Any opinions? I'll talk more below... if natal and synastry in Draco is worth considering, so is the composite. Nothing more far fetched about that than about the other charts, as the composite is just sort of a summary chart. (the result of both natal and synastry). So yes definitely worth considering - about the interpretations, well while being well worth considering, I do understand your hesistance about them, as it becomes maybe too much to grasp if you want to keep an overview over all the charts, like the DRaco composite compared to each natal tropical and draco, the natal composite plus the progressed charts, tropical and Draco. While they are all valid and possibly relevant, the human brain can just grasp so much I guess. And yes in this instance I definitely would focus on conjunctions and oppositions, though lately I´ve begun thinking about squares as well. The Dracos are a nodal chart, either with the North Node (conjunctions in DRaco) or the South Node direction (oppositions in DRaco); however squares to the nodal axis itself are considered "skipped steps", so squares in Draco would probably indicate skipped steps as well. BTW very powerful overlays of DC with your husband and your charts. Makes sense though, considering you married him.
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Post by lumina on Sept 17, 2017 12:59:11 GMT
just out of curiosity this is my Draco Composite and the draco natals of P and me
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Post by lumina on Sept 18, 2017 17:33:59 GMT
I already know many of the strong points in your draco charts...but I always forget...is that draco comp Saturn on the tropical composite's ASC? Yes, exactly even! It`s interesting, I just realize that in Draco composite Moon becomes chartruler and in fact BOTH, Moon and Mars are in domicile. Mmmh.
Mars is on the NN, so that is what we are to develop, where we are pulled to. Moon squaring the nodal axis speaks of a skipped step. I`d hypothize that Martian development is happening only on the basis of having integrated the Moon. To be eben able to express those Mars-desires or whatever that means, we must somehow allow the nurturing principle to surface.
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Post by lumina on Sept 19, 2017 13:49:47 GMT
Ava , how would you interprete conjunctions/opposition from the tropical composite to the Draco natals and from Draco composite to tropical natals?
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Post by Ava on Sept 19, 2017 17:31:32 GMT
I'd interpret it however you advised me to.
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Post by lumina on Sept 19, 2017 18:33:53 GMT
I never did though?
Well I was just thinking that - just as a hypothesis, nothing carved in stone or marble- if our Draco`s are hit by tropical composite the relationship itself (whatever touches us) is triggering that sense of meaning in us, "setting us on our course".
If our tropical planets are hit by Draco composite maybe it might be us, our day to day expression in very palpable terms that will help the relationship to bring into development whatever it is meant to become?
What do you think?
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Post by lumina on Sept 20, 2017 5:50:11 GMT
"My husband and I both have sun sextile moon; in tropical, his is first decan, mine's second. Our tropical composite is heavy third decan. He and I both have our draconic sun and moon in the third decan. I'm talking roughly 20-25°, this is the hot spot for our tropical composite and our natal draconics. So it's a match." That is very interesting, and I agree it`s a match. I have never really payed attention to the decans, but P has a high emphasis on the 3rd decan, too, tropically and draconically (his tropical Sun, Moon, MC, ASC, Saturn, Vertex, Venus, Uranus, Juno, Lilith and the respective draconic equivalents, since his NN is on 1 degree, the decans remain the same for him; I don´t have that high emphasis in tropical on the 3rd decan, just Sun, Moon, Lilith, but in Draco my Venus, Mars, Neptune, Pluto, ASC, MC are all in 3rd decan, so maybe I should keep an eye on that. lol) "The whole relationship seems fated and karmic so it just seemed like there was nothing to do, except what we did. It seemed impossible to resist." Yes, that is the theme that clearly stands out when you talk about him and your relationship and the astrology here seems to really confirm that. "Hmmm...well draco comp Mars is on my Venus, I can vouch for this making things "palpable" day to day " LOL Yes, I can see that. Curiously for us the opposite thing happens tropical comp Mars opposes my Draco Venus (I dont really make huge differences between conjunction and opposition from the composite to the natals, as if something in the composite is opposite a natal planet, it just means that the natal planet is falling onto the far midpoint rather than the near one). "Draco-comp IC-Saturn squares his nodes, it's never really easy, but it's something he does, his moon is there, he's emotionally dedicated all the time. Draco comp Jupiter on my NN," It is intersting though that the Draco comp Saturn and jupiter relate to your respectives nodes. Well in P`s and my composite (tropically) the 5th house Jupiter falls onto my SN-DESC, which curiously is also the DESC of the first meeting chart. There is the needed fun element in that Jupiter. It is also opposing his Mercury, and since c-Jupiter and my SN-DESC are in Gemini, and disposited by Mercury, I guess it describes the communicative sphere when it is going good. Well c-Jupiter also opposes my tropical Neptune exactly, on his Mercury, which opens a large spectre of possibilities there ranging from silent nonverbal nearly psychic understanding to complete blanking out, misunderstanding and just being absolutely confused about everything. lol "But maybe Jupiter is not the most desirable planet to have on a Scorpio NN. Luck and levity in the sign of tough grit. " Hey, Scorpio can need a bit of that fun-element! But of course Jupiter her might actually expand on the depth, so not so much levity but profound underground developments. "How about you, what are your experiences?" I still have to look it up.
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Post by lumina on Sept 20, 2017 11:49:48 GMT
I`ve been focusing on those occasions, where a conjunction/opposition of the tropical composit exists simultaneously to both our Draconic charts, so these Draconic aspects might get especially emphasized, and possibly channelled through the physical manifestation of the planet in tropical composite.
for P and me that would be:
composite Moon on 22 Capricorn conjunct my Draco MC on 24 Cap ( opp. Dr IC on 24 Cancer) opposite his Dr Sun on 26 Cancer
composite ASC on 1 Aquarius conjunct my Dr Pluto on 28 Capricorn opposite his Dr Moon on 27 Cancer
composite Mars on 23 Libra opposite my Dr Venus on 25 Aries opposite his Dr Saturn on 25 Aries conjunct his Dr ASC on 24 Libra
composite Jupiter on 10 Gemini / mean Lilith on 8 Sag conjunct my Dr Moon on almost 7 Gemini opposite his Dr Chiron on 8 Sag
composite Saturn on 21 Le/ composite Vertex on 24 Leo opposite my Dr Uranus on 21 Aquarius conjunct his Dr Venus on 24 Leo (opposite his Dr Juno on 26 Aquarius)
composite Ceres on 23 Pisces conjunct my Dr Amor on 21 Pisces conjunct my Dr Mars on 25 Pisces opposite his Dr Psyche on 23 Virgo
Well it is funny but I never even realized that his Dr Saturn was conjunct my Dr Venus AND my Dr Uranus opposite his Dr Venus.
I also did the same comparision with the composite with lancelot, jsut for curiosity`s sake
composite Sun 22 Aquarius conjunct my Draco Uranus on 21 Aquarius opposite his Draco Eros on 22 Leo
composite Mercury and Venus on 10 Aquarius, composite Saturn on 12 Leo opp/ conjunct my Dr Chiron on 9 Leo conj./ opposite his Dr Jupiter on 12 Aquarius
composite-Pluto on 13 Libra opposite my Dr Sun-Mercury on 14-15 Aries conjucnt his Dr Mars on 14 Libra
composite SN on 28 Aries, composite Eros on 00 Taurus, composite Chiron on 29 Aries conjunct my Dr Venus on almost 26 Aries conjunct his Dr Pluto on 00 Taurus
a bit wide, but the composite nodal axis is running right through it. however I left out his Draco Sun on 2 Scorpio (exact on my tropical Uranus and obviously he has a Sun-Pluto-opposition natally)
composite Juno on 29 Pisces conjunct my Draco Neptune on 29 Pisces conjunct my Dr ASC on 26 Pisces conjunct my Dr Mars on 25 Pisces
conjunct his Dr Moon which is possibly around 00 Aries, possibly late Pisces opposite his Dr Venus on 26 Virgo
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Post by lumina on Sept 21, 2017 13:22:52 GMT
Ava , "Wow, ain't that the truth." Yes, absolutely. So much Mercury-Neptune (we have the DW conjunction in synastry too, though one aspect is almost 5 degrees, the other is exact; his Mercury to my Neptune is the exact one, which is consistent symbolically as the dispositor of my Neptune is in Pisces, the dispositor of his Mercury is in Virgo, and they are exactly opposite. It`s not so much: Me Tarzan, you Jane as "Me Virgo, you Pisces" lol ) "LOL, underground as in graveyards maybe? I'm just thinking of Elvis, whose Scorpio Jupiter is on my NN...he used to bring his friends and family to cemetaries and the morgue.." LOL Well he was pretty plutonic. Didn`t he have a Venus-Pluto-aspect, as well? Square or opposition? ".but then, he had Pluto on his SN. Could be either/or." Maybe both? " I love this. A Cap/Cancer sun-moon opposition that hits the IC-MC axis, that is so perfect, I feel like applauding. " Yes, it`s pretty deep emotional shit. And to top it my Draco Pluto falls onto his Draco IC opposing his Draco Sun-Moon, while simultaneously being conjunct his tropical Venus and opposing his tropical Juno. (my Draco Venus falls onto the midpoint of his tropical Venus/Juno-opposition). It sort of is bringing the family or Mommy/Daddy-axis together with the typical Mars/Venus-alignment, which is not even just described by my Draco Venus and his Draco ASC-DESC being in aspect, but happening in Aries-Libra as well. And actually his Draco Mars is in Aries, too, though not conjunct my Draco Venus. instead his DRaco Mars is conjunct his tropical Ceres on my tropical IC and opposing my tropical Pluto. Feeling a bit dizzy? LOL I also find it interesting, considering that his Draco Sun-Moon-MC meets my Draco IC in Cancer, that our DRaco COMPOSITE Moon is in Cancer, squaring Draco composite Mars in Aries (btw exact on Lancelot`s tropical natal Mars), hence there is once again that mixing up of Moon-Mars-symbolism, twice actually as there is an aspect between Moon and Mars AND it happens between the signs of Cancer and Aries. That this is pretty much important is probably already foretold by Mars being conjunct NN in tropical composite (in LIbra, Venus ruled), squared by Moon (in Capricorn one end of the parental axis, and once more turning the attention to Saturn as well, who fittingly enough comes up in the DRaco synastry as well) "So it's not going away anytime soon, " I guess not. lol "though you scheme in that direction, you underestimate Saturn." LOL Never would understimate Saturn now, would I? Yeah well just trying to be reasonable here, but it is almost funny how his huge relationship-signature (Saturn-Vertex-DESC) meets my Venus in the Dracos. It also combines the huge tension aspect we both have in our natal respectively (the ruler of 5th and 11th house being square; for him that is Moon-Saturn, for me it is Venus-Pluto) and they meet up in the Dracos once more (his 11th house ruler Saturn on my 5th house ruler Venus; his 5th house ruler Moon opposing my 11th house ruler Pluto). In the composite actually there is a mutual reception between 5th and 11th house with Jupiter dispositing our 11th house planets (Sun, Mercury, Neptune, Lilith) and being placed in 5th house. That Jupiter is ALSO being a singleton in a few ways AND even more importantly the handle planet of the bucket formation of our composite, so it is really charged with energy, more than one would think by looking at the composite I suppose, but being the handle planet it means that it is the release point of all those other planetary energies contained in the other planets, it is sort of the entry or portal to the whole. Big deal - Jupiter. lol Well Draco compospite JUpiter is on 19 Taurus, pretty close in between tropical composite IC on 16 Taurus and compospite JUno on 22 Taurus. (and on my asteroid Child on 19 Taurus and conjunct his Draco Pluto on 20 Taurus) Please don`t ask me what this could mean, though. lol "And this whole set is full of a good kind of tension," Yes, squares from the Sun-Moon-MC // IC-Pluto-set to Saturn-DESC-Vertex//Venus-set. But squares in the Dracos alert us to the possibility of a skipped step being at play, and in fact in our tropical compospite Moon and Venus are widely conjunct (6 degrees) and squaring the nodal axis with Mars on the NN, though the square of Moon to the Nodes is the closer one. "except maybe too much Mars....honestly, Mars-ASC can be like a seduction that comes on strong and leaves you in that awful state of suspense...especially with an Aries Venus over on the DSC. This is just like "too much." No wonder you drive him crazy. " LOL I am sorry.... almost. But of course it is the dracos. "I make a fuss about draco-to-draco synastry," I do too though. it is the layer where you connect on that gutlevel that tells you were you have to go, and if the Draco synastry is strong, you just push each other into a certain direction, it is like pure nodal action. Of course the overlays to the tropical are very very important to see how it can express in everyday life, but the Draco-Draco is where the draconic interpretation has to start. "composite SN on 28 Aries, composite Eros on 00 Taurus, composite Chiron on 29 Aries conjunct my Dr Venus on almost 26 Aries conjunct his Dr Pluto on 00 Taurus" Nice! Hmm Venus conjunct any kind of Pluto, though....not sure what to make of this. Well he is none other than Lancelot, I think that's a good name for all this. " Haha. lol I guess though, though the Venus-Pluto is a tad wide of course. Anyway I am rather fascinated with that Eros-Chiron-conjunction on the SN; not sure it is a good thing, however the association I instantly had about that was that Eros of course was shooting ARROWS at people`s heart and therefore "wounding" them at their most vulnerable spot. I think this feeling of falling in love is sometimes even described as an "Eros wound". This seems so literal. Eros-Chiron makes me think of some certain song as well. Not just because of Lancelot, but I´ve always been fascinated with the Eros-Chiron-combination. IN fact I have it in my chart, as my Eros is exactly square Chiron. For Lancelot Eros is also square Chiron. In my chart Eros is in CAncer and Chiron in Aries. In his chart it happens with Eros in Aquarius and Chiron in Taurus. In both cases the squares are pretty exact (0°03 for me; 1°24 for him) Well in P`s chart there is also an aspect, but for him it is Eros in Pisces (on my name in his chart. lol) sextile Chiron in Taurus (1°15), sounds a tad nicer. Having it conjunct in composite with Lancelot AND having both the same aspect in the natals AND having it show up at the nodal axis, definitely describes this as major theme. with it being at the South Node, rather than the North Node, it might be actually a rather old theme for either of us, or even together. BTW one of the tightest aspect between our charts is my Juno conjunct his SN and on the workshop Tr Sun was EXACT on his NN (and possibly Moon) and opposing my Juno. (oh and it is a DW as his Juno is exactly trine my NN, and curiously enough the night before (of the concert) Tr MOon had been conjunct his tropical Sun and my Draco Sun after having passed his tropical Juno. It was a rather interesting weekend. lol Also, I did not even register that, but he has natally Sun opposite Pluto (his Draco Sun falls onto my tropical Uranus exact),and during those two days Transiting Pluto on 16 Cap was trine transiting Sun on 16 Virgo, while on the concert Tr Pluto was also square Tr Moon on 16 ARies (near his Sun on 19 Aries and my Draco Sun on 15 Aries). Waht I did not quite register was that I seem to have Tr Pluto square my Draconic Sun currently. lol Did I mention that the next time I am going to see him again most likely will be at Halloween at the midnight ball? and after that int he musical "Dance of the vampire" where he is going to play the count Krolock, which is of course a vampire? This is just hilarious if one can read the astrology, and the Pluto-signature is just all over it. lol
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Sept 23, 2019 19:28:23 GMT
How have I not posted here? And how do we not have a draconic-to-natal synastry thread? I thought we did, or maybe I'm thinking of the other forum... Be back later.
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Post by Ava on Sept 23, 2019 20:20:58 GMT
Sighhhh, sorry again for my deletions, my husband was reading this forum. He might be again (Hi) but at least now I know, and I didn't know when I first posted.
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Post by lumina on Sept 23, 2019 20:23:21 GMT
wow, it has been 2 years ago!
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Post by Ava on Sept 24, 2019 4:06:26 GMT
Ok lemme just try and re-establish order in my presentation with a few facts. The two longest "official" relationships of my life were with college BF (on and off 4 years, mostly on) and my husband.
The draconic composite charts are remarkably similar, considering the age differences.
Conjunct draco NN of course: 3 Aries, draco comp Neptune w/ husband 6 Aries, draco comp Neptune w/ ex
8 Pisces, draco comp sun w/ husband 2 Pisces, draco comp sun w/ ex
2 Aqua, draco comp Pluto w/ husband 5 Aqua, draco comp Pluto w/ ex...exact on my Mercury
Both feature:
- A Uranus/Chiron opposition - Angular house composite suns (4H w/ husband, 7H w/ ex) - Angular Mars (ASC w/ husband, IC w/ ex) - A Venusian moon (Taurus w/ husband, Libra w/ ex) - A planet tightly conjunct my natal NN (Jupiter w/ husband, Saturn w/ ex)
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Post by Ava on Sept 24, 2019 4:10:52 GMT
How have I not posted here? And how do we not have a draconic-to-natal synastry thread? I thought we did, or maybe I'm thinking of the other forum... Be back later.
Thanks I know we did a lot of draco-to-tropical synastry back at LL because the reigning idea was (or is) that draconic needs tropical as an "anchor," to bring it into the real world....I still don't know if that is true. I think everything is its own thing. It always depends.
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Post by lumina on Sept 24, 2019 11:43:08 GMT
Ava interesting similiarities.
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Post by lumina on Sept 24, 2019 11:46:51 GMT
It`s also interesting so check the tropical and Draco synastry on their own and then compare how they differ, how the emphasis might vary, and then of course also wehre they are intersect. I do think Draco-Draco is valid on its own of course, but when there are overlays it just gets that extra emphasis.
I also think the Draco - Draco synastry is not "theoretical/ hypothetical", but quite evident, after all it is made by the combination of Sun, moon and earth, and therefore with the inclusion of the earth factor, bringing the energies into the physical as well
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Post by lumina on Sept 24, 2019 14:01:16 GMT
Example my parents, first tropical then mDraco. Well of course the tropical already describes their long togetherness, but still I find the Draco one is really completing the picture and quite interesting.
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Post by Ava on Sept 24, 2019 14:30:09 GMT
Well said lumina . True, the lunar nodes are circling the earth, they are literally earth-centered and could not be moreso. Then there's that whole thing with eclipses. The nodes show when and where the moon will block out the sun...the little moon can make the sun disappear! The nodes give that power, so it's no wonder they are such a heavyweight in astrology. Since the nodes are important, planet-node aspects or phase angles are important. Draconic synastry just builds off of that foundation. If your sun is 23° applying to the NN, and someone else has the exact same thing, astrologers could reasonably assume there will be a similar quality to these life stories, whether we can find words for this or not. Your draconic suns will be conjunct, and that illustrates this whole phenomenon simply. Perhaps as planets come into conjunction with the NN, they are "cleansed" and reborn (sent into draconic Aries)? That sort of makes sense if we consider how "extra" Rahu is ~ almost like a purging of everything, bringing it to fruition, making it manifest, like a full moon energy. The attempt is there anyway. As the planet separates from the NN, it can do its own thing again (draconic Aries). Just wondering about the quality of the draconic zodiac, assuming it might have its own unique qualities, sign by sign. If that zodiac does have qualities all its own, then of course, draconic-to-draconic synastry is valid, according to those different game rules. Just not sure what it could all mean. I finally have a day off work so I can just concentrate and conjure or play with ideas. It occurs to me that the aspects formed with the nodes in the natal chart could have special importance. So, for example, draconic sun in Aquarius. That is somewhere between 0° Aqua, an applying sextile to the draconic NN, and 0° Pisces, an applying semisextile, with applying semisquare in the middle. * Applying sextile (0° Aqua draco sun): You feel confident about the challenges you face, you have strong intuition about where you come from (draco sun trine SN), where you are headed, with a strong sense of purpose. It's not necessarily comfortable or easy, but you are probably taking risks others wouldn't. Aiming high. * Applying semisquare (15° Aqua draco sun): You retain a sense of your power but it's balanced with a keen awareness of struggle. You begin struggling before there is even a struggle, as if to prepare yourself for larger forces, opponents, setbacks ahead. You can then capitalize on the inherent weaknesses of systems, because you've concerned yourself with them all along. * Applying semisextile (0° Pisces draco sun): You might be disturbed by choices you've made early in life, as you seemed to apply yourself perfectly in a less-than-perfect direction, but this awareness is healed by the assurance that now you are recalibrated and reoriented. There must be some reluctance to make this final assault on the summit, combined with surrender to the larger Powers that Be. Now my own draconic sun is applying into a separating sextile with the draconic NN, or a trine to the SN. One might interpret that as coming into the first major comfort zone after the sun-node conjunction has passed. 0° Gemini is the language-initiation point, but one might say that it's fundamentally oriented to pleasure. After all, one might argue that communication itself is a kind of leisure activity, after one has fought for survival in Aries, eaten handfuls of stuff in Taurus, and now they can sit back and think it over, tell the neighbors how it's done. Two people with their draconic suns close to 0° Gemini probably think it's good and right to have lots of time on their hands to consider the nature of reality (again, this is the first time the sun is forming major Ptolemaic aspects to the nodes, since the conjunction). That makes sense to me hypothetically and experientially, because when I knew someone whose draconic sun was conjunct mine in late Taurus, that's what we applied ourselves to. "What is really, really, REALLY going on? How do we say this?" === On a whole other note, just to make this ridiculous and needlessly long (transiting draconic sun @ 16 Gemini is exact on my draconic Mercury and tropical Mars today.....don't you just love it? )...... I got Steven Forrest's predictions book from the library. He only covers transits and progressions. That's probably sufficient for a real astrologer who knows what they are doing. For me, with only limited understanding and training, I am looking across charts for themes that spell themselves out and cannot be ignored. And I feel that draconic charts are indispensable when it comes to predictions, perhaps a Missing Link. Just to give a quick example, when I suddenly became infatuated with my husband, transiting draconic Uranus was exactly opposing our draconic composite sun. There was no such dramatic sun-Uranus hit in tropical. Yes, the transiting tropical sun was conjunct his Mars-Pluto, highlighting attractiveness, but that is sort of mundane and blah compared to the mega-thunderstruck feeling that I had that night. Which changed my life. Pls don't quote, might shorten when I come back to my senses...
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Post by Ava on Sept 24, 2019 14:52:00 GMT
I was thinking, typing, and writing forever there, so I missed your comment... Example my parents, first tropical then mDraco. Well of course the tropical already describes their long togetherness, but still I find the Draco one is really completing the picture and quite interesting. Definitely interesting! Looks like Mars-Mars comes into orb for a conjunction? And with draco synastry you see... Mercury conjunct IC, Venus-Jupiter conjunct DSC! Lovely! 2H Neptune conjunct 4H Mars-Venus in Libra ~ reminds me of that song "Just Like Heaven." Mars-Pluto on the ASC in Leo, no wonder they clicked so strongly, so immediately.... What else are you seeing?
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