MC in relationships (by Ceri)

[Deleted]

One of my favorites

"I know we are all looking out for attraction - aspects, the exciting thrilling ones, involving Venus, Mars, Uranus, Pluto, Neptune (depending on individual taste), the 5th house for sparks, the 7th house for natural personal compatibility and draw, and all these are important, don`t get me wrong. I ALWAYS check them first.

In fact I always check Venus, Mars, (Eros) and the 5th house first, even before doing the 7th house, cause most of the time, if there is no initial spark, you don´t even get to the relationship-level. (even more evident in composite).


However, under the premise that all of that is present, the sparks of Venus, Mars, 5th house, the natural partner compatibility of Sun, Moon, 7th house, and yet this might not be enough.
Love and attraction and even friendship sometimes simply is not enough.

You can feel attracted, totally head over heels with someone, feel warm and fuzzy and comfortable around them and yet you might choose to NOT get into a relationship with them.


Of course there are MANY reasons for that happening (or in that instance - NOT- happening).

However one thing I would recommend (even to myself - make a mental note, Ceri) is checking the MC (and adding the nodal axis and especially IC to that as well).

Why I recommend this is actually a pretty simple thought of mine.
To be in a relationship and make it WORK over any length of time, you don´t just have to be in love or being attracted to each other or best friends, but you actually have to have compatible life paths or goals.
No, they do not have to be exactly the same, but you have to be able to harmonize them, to cooperate, to go a long way in life with each other.

Your direction in life, your lifestyle, your perspectives and ideas on how your life should continue, they need to be compatible.

Let`s say two people are madly in love with each other.
One of them is in England raising 3 kids on her own, and the other one, while still in England, is on the verge of going onto a tour around the world, preferable through the wilderness with almost no means of maintain in contact.
He also couldn't EVER imagine settling down and staying at one place, and most certainly not feeling capable of taking responsibility for a family.


Now, I wouldn't deny that these people might still be truly in love with each other and attracted (though it depends on our definition of what love really is I suppose), but still I wouldn't see a relationship working out in the long or even short term, as their paths in life are just too different, and incompatible (especially if they do not find a common ground or compromise BOTH could be happy with, and let`s be honest, who is really happy with a COMPROMISE?).


That is why I would recommend taking the MC into consideration a little bit more (and the IC, too, of course).


I also suspect that might be the reason, why during times of getting married the MC oftentimes seems to play a significant role, (initially i would have expected to see more ASC-DESC-action, but it seems to be a tie with the MC-IC-axis).

Probably this heralds the time when it is i possible to align two lives in a very worldly sense with each other.


As an example for prediction.
At the day of their wedding my Dad`s solar arc Venus was EXACTLY Conjunct my Mum`s natal MC and NN.

Around the same degrees their tp composite had a conjunction of NN and MC as well when they got married.


Of course that is just one example, but I do think that part of why they managed to keep their relationship working over 40 years had to do with their ability to align their ideas about life and their life paths.

Synastrically speaking my Dad`s MC ruler Mercury is trine my Mum`s Venus (5th house rulr) exactly and also trines her Mars.

Her traditional MC-ruler Jupiter conjuncts my dad`s NN (and she has a MC-NN-conjunction natally) and sextiles his Sun (11th house ruler). Also opposes his Mars (8th house ruler).

In their case it seems like the 5th and 11th house sparks were flowing right into their MC-synastry, which seems rather nice I suppose. Maybe if the constellations of the 5th, 7th, 8th and possibly 11th house flow into or connect with the MC and its ruler it makes people feel like they could manifest these sparks in a commitment, and could go some way with each other.

Of course there are NEVER guarantees. Still it can`t do any harm checking the MC. lol"

[Deleted]

Thank you, Leeloo.

And actually there are some thoughtworthy .... thoughts in there. Good to be reminded of that. I wonder who wrote that. Honestly, sometimes I DO wonder who writes the bits I sometimes write on astrology. lol

And maybe I should heed my own advice/ suggestion and maybe do some research about that hypothesis of interconnections between MC and the more thrilling houses.

I also remember my friend and her ex-bf. They were a total misfit romantically, and in fact he said he had never had any romantic feelings for her or was attracted to her, and her attraction to him was limited as well (and there were practically zero interlinks between Venus, Mars - especially his- ASC, ASC-ruler, DESC-ruler, 5th house rulers).


Still they were a very committed couple (until they each had an affair or two or three), for about 7 years I think.


So what DID they have?


Moon (a lot of it), Saturn (some of it) and MC, including the rulers of MC (his MC-ruler was Moon in Sagittarius falling right onto her NEptune and making a Grand trine with her natal Moon-Saturn-trine, and sextils to her Mercury-Venus-Mars-Pluto // it was particularly his MC-connections that were prominent, she was providing more of the more romance oriented planets after all, though not overflowing with it either, oh and her MOon and her Saturn which were so connected to his Moon, are ruling her 1st/ 2nd and 7th/ 8th house natally)

[whisperix]

Interesting read!

[Ava]

LeeLoo

Thanks for posting this!

@ceri

Your example with your friend and her ex reminds me of my good friend and her boyfriend. Their composite:




Please don't quote, I'll remove that later.

Venus on the MC, and they are technically a couple, but the lower hemisphere of the composite is empty, and they can't seem to connect emotionally ~ not in a consistent and healthy way. They fell in love while working on a project together (so Venus on the MC, right?) and I guess they feel more personally successful because of what each one brings to the table.

I don't want to say a lot out of respect for her intentions and wishes for this relationship, but I have spent most of the time hoping they would break up. 

[Violets]

Well, we all know about my family's IC/MC dynamics, lol. There's plenty going on there, I reckon. My husband's Jupiter is on my IC if I recall correctly, and of course (of coooourrse) my Pluto is on his. But also trines to take into consideration, as well as squares, etc. Interesting thoughts, @ceri.

[Deleted]

Ava

very interesting observations about this composite (though I hope that lower hemisphere thing is not that much of a deathsentence, though I can see it actually. We would want to see some lower hemisphere things happening for a personal connection, the upper hemisphere, as you said, might connect people, too, but also in relation to a third entity, people, groups, projects etc.)


Anyway what I noticed after thinking this composite does not look too connected (I was wrong about that though), is that there is a closed circuit of Saturn-NN, Neptune, Mercury and Pluto. 

The Saturn-NN-conjunction I think depicts that this would be a very important, albeit possibly karmic (?), relationship, however we define Karma of course. 
Let`s put it less esoteric themes, Saturn would become a guiding-tool for the relationship, some Saturn-symbolism would be vehemently infused into it and at the same time evolving in or towards SAturnian themes. 
So structure mostly, and of course also a commitment (Saturn-NN I have come to realize are very hard to walk away from. And even if you do walk away from it, some trace of that relationship will stay with you, as the connection itself will have restructured a part of you or your lifepath for good. After all this Saturn is the Saturn BOTH people participate in).


That Saturn rules the 2nd house and of course is on the NN in 8th house, so a connection from 2nd to 8th house (I have that natally actually, without the NN, though with Vertex). 
I am not exactly sure about this, but values and sharing of values, also feelings of worthiness will be important for them, possibly both of them, or the person whose natal is mostly triggered by 14 Leo. 
Restructuring of intimacy, including emotional and sexual intimacy, could also be part of it, unless they deal with other peoples money. lol 
8th house is also how you create the commitment to each other (in 7th house you might have your wedding, but it is in the 8th house that you actually LIVE that commitment, hence often it is a house of crisis, too).

Though the question is of course, since this is a composite, chart of two people, if not it is their committing to other people as a couple. I have not really made up my mind about that in the composite. the 7th and 8th house in composite are confusing to me.



That Saturn-NN however is squaring Neptune, and 3 degrees, while not exact, I still find to be on the stronger side in a composite. 
If that had been a trine at least!
I really do not like the SAturn-Neptune or Neptune-NN-square. In synastry I have often found the Neptune-NN square in synastries that gloriously failed. No, I am not saying that this is the case everytime (I hope not, I think my brother and his gf have that - well not quite, but my brother`s gf`s Neptune falls onto his South Node exact.)

This mini research was being put down in an old LL thread, and the occurrence of Neptune-Node in failed relationship came as a total surprise to me. I had not been looking out for that!

www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/204799.html

(I was including the conjunction to SN as well, but rereading it, it was just one case, and that had been just a torrid affair that dissolved quickly, though leaving a lasting impression on Eric Satie, and of course like always other aspects contributed to that, but still it startled me how reliably the Neptune-nodes-square seemed to feature in those dramatically failing relationships.)


In light of this I find it interesting that they have the Saturn-Node (which seems extremely binding) and the Neptune-Node (which can either be creative/spiritual or dissolving), If the Saturn-Neptune had been a harmonious aspect, it would probably look more healthy to me. 

But Saturn-Neptune-square sounds rather exhausting and actually lonely to me. 
Then there is the Mercury-Pluto-semisextile, on its own not a strong aspect, but it looks important to me because of the shared midpoint-axis, maybe not very exact but possibly close enough to count. 

I think the SAturn/Neptune as well as the Mercury/Pluto midpoints are at about 28 Virgo. 
Does either of these people have something there or on about 28 Sag-Gemini natally?


I wonder actually how they will fare with Tr Saturn squaring these eventually. While we have to of course think for ourselves, the midpoint interpretations of these are not really all that nice.


SATURN TO MIDPOINT SATURN/NEPTUNE

Suffering as a martyr to a cause; losing focus; wanting to give up
under stress; denial.

SATURN TO MIDPOINT MERCURY/PLUTO

A quarrelsome nature, insistence of a point of view, unrelenting
 demands, nagging character, irritability, scepticism. Nervous irritation

through overwork, the exposure to heavy or bitter attacks, separation.



SATURN TO MIDPOINT NEPTUNE/NODE
emotional inhibitions when in contact with others. separation through deceit, perfidy or untruthfulness. Emotional suffering caused through a partner. 



Even if things are not going to be that bleak, I think that the Saturn transit will bring rather harsh tests to them and their ability to cooperate as a couple. 

Besides the connection of Mercury-Saturn-Neptune-Pluto-Nodes, while important, does not look inherently loving or romantic to me. Mercury rules the 7th house, so this would be the most personal connection here, though I simply do not know if the 7th house really is about the couple themselves or how they relate AS a couple to others. Just do not know this. 


The Mars-Jupiter-URanus would probably be very exciting, yet unstable (a lot of on and off?), interestingly Jupiter is chartruler and conjuncts Mars and Uranus.

Moon square Venus would speak of a strong emotional attraction, but I don`t think necessarily compatibility and connectedness. and it is pretty isolated, and disposited by Mercury, so leading us back to the first configuration. 

I see an important connection here, but actually only little love (romance). 


EDIT: Hmm wrong again, the Sun-Venus-conjunction looks of course pretty attractive, and square Moon, - actually a lot of emotional attraction as well, but again, possibly not much in terms of actual emotional compatibility. 

[Ava]

Oh wow, thanks @ceri ! Great insights.

I had a dream last night that my friend joined this forum and found me talking about her. Oops! I'm gonna just be brief out of respect.

"I see an important connection here, but actually only little love (romance)."

Yes, the connection is bigger than the romance. The synastry is pretty amazing, too. His sun-Neptune on her NN, her Neptune on his SN. I never heard her talk about past lives until she met him. She felt like everything they were saying was somehow encoded and they both understood "the code" because they learned it many lifetimes ago. Something like that. She didn't believe that as a fact, but was struggling to convey what was going on. Also they have such a psychic link. He refuses to believe it but things like this happen: she asks him to stop the car at a floral stop she sees up ahead. They walk into the shop and he says, "Let's see, you wanted a begonia...." She says, "Yes, but I never told you that." And he says, "Oh hush. Sure you did." But she didn't.

His ASC exactly conjunct her IC in Capricorn. His pr sun just entering Cap; her sun conjunct Saturn. They are Saturnine for sure!

As for NN-Saturn square Neptune, it's like they oscillate between perfect lovers and a pair of frozen people who spend time together, bringing out the worst in each other (although, he doesn't need any help from anyone to demonstrate his bad side. She is an angel as far as I'm concerned, a very intelligent and peaceful person.)

The see-saw is exhausting to say the least.

"I think the SAturn/Neptune as well as the Mercury/Pluto midpoints are at about 28 Virgo.
Does either of these people have something there or on about 28 Sag-Gemini natally?"

Pretty sure her pr sun was 28 Virgo when they met and his pr sun was 28 Sag. Her Jupiter 29 Gemini. So yes, good observation!

And thank you for this:
www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/204799.html

I caught the part about Neptune-NN...I'd quote it but we're off topic. Doesn't look good at all, does it?  

I'm just going to share their pr composite chart, because it's an interesting case study of two people who are seriously fused together even though it's painful much of the time. They've tried breaking up several times but haven't managed to call it quits. Oh and the MC-sun-Neptune is on topic:



Pr comp Pluto conjunct her 14 Virgo moon
Pr comp NN conjunct his 13 Leo Pluto

[Deleted]

Thank you, this is very interesting.
Also intriguing that at the current time Saturn is becoming angular, and they face the Saturn-Transit. I think this timeframe will test them and their true willingness to commit to each other and the relationship. Either they will break up or they will come out of it more strongly committed even.

Personally I wouldn´t rule out the possibility of marriage, with Saturn on DESC, and maybe even more so the ruler of 7th house on MC.

[Deleted]

this is the Composite and pr Composite of my brother and his gf for the time of their son`s birth last year. (interestingly they also have an empty lower hemisphere, but they ARE very much emotionally connected to each other)

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[Ava]

@ceri

I see what you mean, empty lower hemisphere doesn't necessarily translate to a lack of emotions or a shared home life.

It's curious to me that your brother and his girlfriend aren't married, though of course, I don't judge that whatsoever.

But it's one thing your brother and my friend have in common: a longstanding relationship that hasn't resulted in marriage (yet).

Honestly I hope my friend does not marry her boyfriend.

[Deleted]

Snapshot of what I see in their progressions:

° pPluto conjunct pVertex
- Vertex is often involved in births, and curiously Pluto as well


°pJuno on 00 Taurus - a Change in commitment
°pJuno on pAvx and opposing Pluto

- Pluto rules the natal 8th house (8th house often has to do with heritage and genetics)



° pMercury conjunct pVenus, square pMC and trine nMC
° pMercury-pVenus opposing n Moon, pMC square nMoon
- Moon ruling 4th and 5th house; pMercury having JUST started to rule p 5th house (00 Virgo)


Their son has some interesting aspects to their Composite/ p Composite, which of course means that were the Transits they received at that time

°his ASC conjunct cDESC with 3 degree orb


°his MC trine pc Saturn

° his Moon on 00 Virgo exactly falling onto pc 5th house cusp (and his Venus also conjuncts it by 2 degrees)

° his Jupiter opposite their c-Sun-Venus

° his Saturn (9 Sag) in between their pcDESC and pcUranus
falling right onto my Brothers Moon-Jupiter-Uranus, well his son made him grow up and anchored him and made him structure his life I guess

° his Uranus on pcSun (I think HER ASC is somewhere around there as well)


° his Neptune-SN on pc Ceres

° his Pluto exactly conjunct their pc Moon (by 3 minutes I think).

[Deleted]

Ava

well I think my brother is the one keepin off the marriage. Noone really knows why. Maybe he`s going to Change his mind eventually. It`s just curious. My parents have been married over 40 years happily, so it`s not like he Comes from a broken home or something. He just does not want to get married (for tax reasons) and also does not see any philosophical difference. So I guess for him there is just no reason.

Well I for one would think his son would be a reason! And the certain laws connected to children and parents.


Maybe he wants to be able to provide for his Family all on his own before doing so? As it is now my parents Support him still to a degree, and I know how much he hates it. Well he loves my parents for it, but he feels like he should be able to do it on his own, well soon he will be, starting his teacher in Training part of the education (with real Money ).

[Ava]

@ceri

That all makes sense...I think most men prefer to have a stable job before getting married.

"° his Saturn (9 Sag) in between their pcDESC and pcUranus
falling right onto my Brothers Moon-Jupiter-Uranus, well his son made him grow up and anchored him and made him structure his life I guess"

Wow!

Your nephew's sun-Saturn trine overlaps my husband's almost exactly.

[anela]

This one guy that I had really strong feelings for, had connections between planets to my ascendant and descendant (and planets of my own), but also had his ascendant conjunct my MC.