vg
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Post by vg on Apr 24, 2020 19:47:18 GMT
How significant is it when Solar return and lunar return happen on the same day within a short time(less than an hour) of each other? I always thought that the Solar return showed the themes for the year and the Lunar gives an idea of when. Does it mean the main things of the year will happen that month? e.g. I'm looking at 2021 lol, literally my sun is 5'38 libra and my moon is 29'29 gemini. When my SR for that year happens my moon will be 29'49' Gemini. Of course my TOB could be off by a minute or two but still.... no quote pls
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Post by Ava on Apr 26, 2020 16:08:22 GMT
That's amazing vg . Makes sense to anticipate a more eventful first month after your birthday but also, seems like it could be a blessing if the SR has the moon in its natal position? You could be more in tune with your emotions and therefore develop stronger intuition through the year? I feel bad answering since I'm a self-declared total novice with return charts but if they function the way they are said to function, certain conjectures come to mind. Going over the SR charts of my life as fast as I can... K, 1995, my SR moon @ 22 Pisces in the first house, so my LR happened a few hours before that. I remember that time period clearly and it was honestly all about escapism. "I don't want to be at this school, I don't want to be dating that guy, I want a new life." I thought of dropping out of school and I've often said the main regret of my life is that I didn't. Yes I think my instincts were sharp back then but like a typical Pisces moon in its negative expression I just wallowed there and remained stuck. Saturn was also in Pisces if that's an excuse. SR moon @ 1° Pisces in the first house again in 2003 when I had a baby daughter to take care of. My pr moon in Pisces at the same time, her draconic moon is in Pisces, just seems maternal and feminine in this context. (Side note, the SR features Venus on her tropical sun.) SR moon @ 21° Pisces in 2014 in the 6th house; this was an extraordinary and spooky year. Many of my ghost stories and supernatural tales of adventure took place then. Actually I never really studied this chart before and it is just SO fitting, I'm a little shocked. This is another time period I've wished I could return to. It's like I really knew what I knew, on a "cellular level" as people say. SR moon will be @ 2° Pisces in 2022, conjunct SR Jupiter @ 1° Pisces, on my progressed sun, on the 6H cusp. Considering the trajectory we seem to be on at the moment, globally, I'm inclined to predict hardship, zombie apocalypse type of things......... Well I think by now most of the people on these forums know me and my negative imagination. === Off topic I've never looked at all the SRs sequentially so I've never seen this pattern before, where I seem to have had SR moon in Taurus, Cancer, and Libra more than the other signs, and the moon is on the IC or MC quite often. Moon conjunct Saturn is another theme; I think I remember seeing that before, especially in years where I had babies. I'll start a new thread about SR moon patterns. Pls don't quote
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Post by FruityLlama on Apr 26, 2020 16:47:36 GMT
I didn't realise that about LR being when those themes of the SR happen. I've not been one to take much notice, but I might do now!
My first thought was similar to yours, that the main themes may start/conclude around your birthday for that year. In 2014 I had something similar whereby in the late hours of the day before my birthday (around 11pm on 28/4), there was my LR with the sun obviously just hours away from its return position.
My birthday that year presented with a period of dealing with really shit friends at Uni. I'd started in the Sept and I suppose I was keen to befriend everyone, but a few betrayed me quite badly. I don't mean romantically or anything, I mean, like they nearly left me homeless and the other one left me in the middle of a nightclub all by myself in a city I didn't know. Therefore, I stopped being friends with them and it was a fairly painless process actually. It was nearly time to break for the summer anyway (Uni terms here are quite short, we usually break up in about June-ish so by my birthday, things were winding down anyway).
My luminaries were trining 1st house pluto, which ruled the 11th house. I think my SR for that year onwards helped me to mature emotionally and be more discerning with moon related things. In my natal, my Sun-Moon are in my 11th too and my moon receives a natal square from Uranus, so it was something I was dealing with before.
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vg
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Post by vg on Apr 26, 2020 16:48:51 GMT
Thank you Ava, that year the sun will be in the 9th and the moon will be in the 7th - i checked my son's sun will also be in the 9th and the moon will be in the 3rd conj his natal asc. On thinking that i think it will be a big year - i think we will probably means we go travelling to meet my bf's family in their country(they live quite far away and im scared to travel that far with a baby atm). It might relate to that. In a way the whole family will change.
Funningly enough i looked and have had this aspect happen before - only the LR occured first. Saturn was conj the moon that year in the 12th and the sun was in the 4th - i had just started university, lost alot of weight, my whole appearance changed, didnt like the subject i was studying and I was going out alot more and having fun. I didnt go out much when i lived at home, not because i was restricted i just didnt want to - i wanted to study all the time.
Year i had my sun i didnt have saturn moon aspect in the SR but around the time he was born saturn had just opposed my moon(and was squaring my son). so yeah i think also saturn -moon is involved with babies. Would make sense I guess as its the responsibility planet.
Everytime i see saturn, uranus or pluto in a SR or LR in a certain house i always think the worst and most of the time its no were near as bad as i think it will be.
Would be interested in the SR moon patterns thread too.
pls dnt quote
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Post by lumina on Apr 26, 2020 18:02:44 GMT
I was having something similiar in december 2012, 9 hours before my SR , my LR took place.
P was having something like that in december 2017, 6 hours before his SR this year, he had a LR.
And in december 2020, my first lunar return will take place just a day after my SR, not that close maybe, actually P`s Solar REturn is then quite closish to my LR then. lol
my LR 18th december, 1:53 p.m. ( so on my actual birthday, my LR is a day prior) his SR 18th december: 11: 26 a.m.
Anyway I don`t know how it was for him (though we actually met round that date in december 2017, maybe 2 days prior).
AS for me with the LR preceding my SR in december 2012, that was a very important timeframe, lifealtering decisions and maybe not even decisions but taking directions that would alter my path in life considerably I think, without me even being aware of how much at that time. Well one of these decisions had me enrolling with Weight watchers, though I think that might have been the lunar return before (it was at the end of november). The following year was a challenging one, in good ways, but also bringing a lot of painful experiences and losses. But I think that had more to do with the SR as it was, not the fact that there was a LR preceding. Actually december 2012 was pretty cool. lol
I was having a lot of challenging transits that coming year like: Tr Saturn square pr Sun; Tr Jupiter was actually conjunct my SN and DESC, well as I said it was not all bad. lol But of course also opposing my Neptune and squaring my own Jupiter. Tr Uranus was conjunct my IC exact (at the time of my SR) and moving to square my Venus. (also trine Mars). Tr Pluto had been conjunct my Venus the previous year and was going to go back and forth squaring my natal Pluto, which probably would have been manageable if I hadn`t had Tr Pluto also opposing my pr Moon on my pr DESC that year, esp. in summer 2013.
The day that was among 2 of the worst that year, also had Tr Moon (in Libra) conjunct my Pluto, and therefore squaring Tr Pluto on my pr ASC in Cap and squaring my pr Moon on pr DESC in Cancer. It was pretty precise.
Tr Moon: 9 Libra n Pluto: 9 Libra
Tr Pluto: 9 Cap pr ASC: 8 Cap
pr Moon: 10 Cancer
and tertiary progressed Moon on 8 Cap conjunct tertiarly progressed DESC on 8 Cap.
It all seemed to just be magnitized to those same cardinal degrees.
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vg
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Post by vg on May 20, 2020 19:48:04 GMT
The draco chart is created by having the moon nodes at 0 degs Aries....is there an equivalent for say, venus nodes brought back to 0 deg aries?
How do we even find the venus nodes?
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Post by Ava on May 21, 2020 13:42:14 GMT
I've never heard of that vg . Hope someone else can answer. ( lumina where are you?) In the meanwhile, this site will give you the nodes: true-node.com/eph1 Not sure which nodes are most comparable to the lunar nodes...Venus' helio or geocentric nodes? Which would we use? Definition of lunar node: "A lunar node is either of the two orbital nodes of the Moon, that is, the two points at which the orbit of the Moon intersects the ecliptic." (wikipedia) Helio node: "What we call the north node of a planet is that point where the orbit of a planet crosses the plane of the earth's orbit as the planet goes north." www.facebook.com/notes/theoretical-astrology-forum/heliocentric-planetary-nodes/806490009428546/Isn't "earth's orbit" synonymous with "the ecliptic"? Geo node: "The GEOCENTRIC Planetary Nodes are points where a planet’s orbit intersects the ecliptic, from the viewpoint of the earth." learnaboutastrology.tumblr.com/post/45007205998/the-planetary-nodes At least that kind of makes sense, but when it's defined that way, I see no difference between the helio and geo nodes. I guess the geo NN is just more mobile because while the orbital planes are fixed and shift their tilts very slowly, the planets themselves zip around in their orbits, with the geo nodes predicting where alignments with the sun will happen. This article explains it pretty well and has a helpful illustration. As it explains, the nodes of Venus indicate where sun-Venus conjunctions will happen (Venus phase cycle): earthsky.org/astronomy-essentials/definition-what-is-a-venus-nodeAnother thread on geocentric nodes: schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php?topic=342.0All things considered I suppose the geo node of Venus is more like the lunar nodes. When Venus is on its geo node, a sun-Venus conjunction is happening, and when the sun and moon are on a lunar node, a new moon eclipse is happening. EDIT: It's not quite this simple, as my post below shows. Please pardon the muddled information here, it's a work in progress. So when I was born, geo Venus NN was @ 0°36 Pisces. (Weird...my pr sun is currently @ 0°50 Pisces. Did I miss something? lol) So to make a draconic chart of that, I just shift that node to 0° Aries, a 30° shift forward. So I'm very fortunate here that my draco Venus chart (if that's what this is) is extremely easy to calculate: all my planets just move forward 30°. So a comparison chart between my draco Venus chart and my natal would show conjunctions wherever I have a natal semisextile. As it happens, I have Venus semisextile Uranus exact... 6 Scorpio, tropical Uranus 6 Sag, tropical Venus 6 Sag, Venus-draco Uranus I really, really like weird people, yes. Then it's weird that my draco-Venus sun would be @ 15 Aqua, cuz that's my ex's regular draco sun. === Anyway, anyone else have any thoughts? vg, did you move forward on this question after you asked, and possibly arrived at a different conclusion, or came up with different information? Pls don't quote
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Post by 12YearsABlob on May 21, 2020 14:12:22 GMT
In the meanwhile, this site will give you the nodes: true-node.com/eph1 You might've already told me this, but I wanted to confirm: Do we type Venus in the list of names and give our DoB, while selecting "Show North Node" to get the Venus geo NN? I'm a bit confused because it seems to be almost exactly on my Venus (8°44' Virgo). What does it mean if the geo node is at the same degree? And do I shift forwards or backwards to get to 00° Aries?
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Post by lumina on May 21, 2020 14:17:42 GMT
Yes there are some who mentioned Other zodiacs Like a Venus Zodiac. However they were using the tropical Natal Venus Position for the calculation, Not the nodes. If doing IT AS a true eqivalent to the Draco Chart, the geocentric Venus nodes would be used, but of course there would be a diff. Between north and south Venus Chart.
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Post by lumina on May 21, 2020 14:48:28 GMT
I Just finished Reading your while Post Ava. So you already explained itvall. 😁 I also would use the Geo Venus north Mode. IT is Not a draconic Chart though, As this Term is only die the lunar node. Unless WE agreed on calling IT Venus Draco or Something Like that. But I guess No astrologer outside Here would understand IT. Pretty Sure wevwould BE the First experimenting with that, except perhaps IQ or Glaucus.
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Post by lumina on May 21, 2020 15:54:18 GMT
For future reference my Venus north node ist 19.23 cap
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Post by Ava on May 21, 2020 16:45:36 GMT
You might've already told me this, but I wanted to confirm: Do we type Venus in the list of names and give our DoB, while selecting "Show North Node" to get the Venus geo NN? I'm a bit confused because it seems to be almost exactly on my Venus (8°44' Virgo). What does it mean if the geo node is at the same degree? And do I shift forwards or backwards to get to 00° Aries? Wow! Yes, your Venus NN is right on your Venus! (Double checked it at the site). I think we are being cutting edge here so by all means feel free to invent an interpretation for that. As for the more difficult thing...what exactly it means, astronomically...well I see the sun was conjunct Venus @ 29 Leo the previous August. HELIO Venus was @ 29 Aqua on that same day. There was an inferior conjunction then: alabe.com/VeCycle-1.pdfWhich means, in a helio chart, earth and Venus were conjunct, as shown here...if you imagine yourself on the sun (ouch) looking out, Venus and earth line up: But...geo Venus NN was at 29 Cancer then. So what does the Geo Venus NN have to do with anything? I guess it indicates where Venus goes down on the horizon AFTER forming that conjunction higher up in the sky? It shows Venus's slide and where we observe it last? So on your birthday.....Venus must have just exhibited a complete vertical drop from the sky, no slant, just boom. That's because...um... Like... Venus had gone Rx right near there before @ 7 Virgo, it was the SD position. Once your Venus returned there, it was just coming out of shadow, and there was an SD effect because the relative speeds of earth and Venus were syncing up to normal again...let me check if that's right because I am half BS-ing.... Okay...speed of geo Venus then was 0°51 and speed of earth was 0°59...Yeah...yeah I think this is something, Venus was staying on its NN for a while there as the relative speeds of Venus and earth were very close and identical a few weeks after you were born. I don't know where to take it from there. What I saw at true-node.com in the lists there is, when Venus is on the geo Venus NN, it tends to happen around the time Venus is coming out of an Rx cycle and its speed is matching that of the earth's. That's how it was when you were born and in the weeks following but I'm not sure it will always be the case. Edit: It's REALLY fortunate, to me, that you have this in your chart because I've been confused forever about what the geo NN means. This forced me to look closer and taught me something. So thanks for looking your info up! As for your other question, I guess it doesn't matter if you add or subtract to bring any degree to the AP, it's just a question of which math is preferable....if a planet/point is in Aries, it makes sense to roll it and everything else back, and if it's close to Pisces, you roll it and everything forward.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on May 21, 2020 20:13:17 GMT
Wow! Yes, your Venus NN is right on your Venus! (Double checked it at the site). I think we are being cutting edge here so by all means feel free to invent an interpretation for that. Omg, thanks for checking! I was wondering if I did something wrong. But yeah, this is all new, like you said. The only interpretation I can come up with is that it might be an important planet for my chart. So on your birthday.....Venus must have just exhibited a complete vertical drop from the sky, no slant, just boom. Haha! I'm trying to picture this. I don't know where to take it from there. What I saw at true-node.com in the lists there is, when Venus is on the geo Venus NN, it tends to happen around the time Venus is coming out of an Rx cycle and its speed is matching that of the earth's. That's how it was when you were born and in the weeks following but I'm not sure it will always be the case. Aha, so cool that you spotted this pattern. Edit: It's REALLY fortunate, to me, that you have this in your chart because I've been confused forever about what the geo NN means. This forced me to look closer and taught me something. So thanks for looking your info up! Thank *you* for the in-depth information! I'm still trying to process, coz half of it went over my head. I think I follow your conclusion, though.. That was a great read and I'll come back to it to understand the whole thing.
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Post by Ava on May 22, 2020 10:11:25 GMT
I'm sorry 12YearsABlob, it really is difficult to make sense of my posts above. I would just erase them and try to explain it better but I still don't know all I need to know. Hoping someone will swing by and correct what I've left there, where my trail runs cold.... And maybe the simplest answer would have been best...as lumina said, we can make a Venus "draco" chart by taking our natal Venus position as 0 Aries.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on May 22, 2020 11:36:08 GMT
No no, I like the detailed information! Was just saying I'll absorb it in bits and pieces coz of my brain fog.
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Post by lumina on May 22, 2020 15:44:28 GMT
I like the detailed information, too. BTW Ronald Davison was using the Venus zodiac (among others) in his book on synastry (where he also introduced the Davions relationship chart btw). My Venus zodiac (planetdance has the option, so I could just quickly check. ) is this: ASC 00°57 Pisces MC 28°55 Sag Sun 19°49 Pisces Moon 10°59 Taurus Mercury 18°55 pisces Venus 00°00 Aries - obviously Mars 29°03 Aqua Jupiter 05°05 Gemini Saturn 10°50 Libra Uranus 25°14 CAp Neptune 03°49 Pisces (my pr Venus has just entered 3 PIsces) Pluto 02°57 Cap Node 03°12 Pisces Chiron 13°54 Cancer and because I am curious P`s Venus zodiac ASC 00°16 Gemini (this just gave me goosebumps. lol) MC 02°36 Pisces Sun 01°02 Pisces Moon 02°44 Pisces Mercury 13°27 Aqua Venus 00.00 Aries Mars 15°10 Scorpio Jupiter 14°14 Scorpio Saturn 00°47 Sag Uranus 27°29 Cap Neptune 24°32 Aqua Pluto 25°27 Sag Node 06°38 SCorpio Chiron 13°40 Cancer (didn`t I just read that position in my own Venus zodiac?)
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vg
Junior Member
Posts: 733
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Post by vg on May 22, 2020 19:52:08 GMT
Hey @ava, no i have not looked further since I asked. I had just thought it was bringing the venus node back to 0. Theres always emphasis on the moon and the moon nodes, but people always talk about venus in relationships for example or "style". Venus rules my chart, so I wondered why are venus nodes less important than moon. Will have a look through the above posts
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Post by Ava on May 23, 2020 13:08:38 GMT
My Venus zodiac (planetdance has the option, so I could just quickly check. ) is this: ASC 00°57 Pisces MC 28°55 Sag Sun 19°49 Pisces K, so I know natally you have 6 Cap Venus, almost 26 Sag sun, ten degrees behind Venus. Took me a second to see they are indeed using your natal Venus as the Aries point, with your sun about 10 behind....0 Aries minus ten takes you to 20 Pisces. 6 Sag, my Venus Almost-16 Cap, my sun 40° My Venus-sun @ 40°, aka 10° Taurus. Conjunct composite Jupiter-SN with a lot of people I know.
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Post by Ava on May 23, 2020 19:53:11 GMT
^ That wouldn't be a "Venus node chart" but a Venus AP chart or maybe Venus draco chart, if draco and AP are interchangeable expressions. Ugh all these planets in Gemini are crowding my mind with words. 12YearsABlob, I was trying to obscure your birth data in my explanations above so I left links instead of clearer information...apologized because that's kinda lazy and sets you up for having to dig for what I'm alluding to. If I knew other dates with Venus on the Venus NN I could have spelled it out better, I think. lumina...Just realized everyone's sun is either in Aqua, Pisces, Aries, or Taurus in those Venus-AP charts. Maximum elongation between the sun and Venus is 45-47°... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elongation_(astronomy)
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Post by lumina on May 23, 2020 20:10:27 GMT
Yes Ava somewhere in my Post i wrote i was doing a Venus Zodiac Chart (following davisons example i mentioned), Not a nodal Chart of Venus.
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