The Fates // Norns

[Ava]

In Greek mythology, the Moirai or Moerae /ˈmɪrˌiː/ or /ˈmiːˌriː/ (Ancient Greek: Μοῖραι, "apportioners"), often known in English as the Fates (Latin: Fatae), were the white-robed incarnations of destiny; their Roman equivalent was the Parcae (euphemistically the "sparing ones"). Their number became fixed at three: Clotho (spinner), Lachesis (allotter) and Atropos (unturnable).

They controlled the mother thread of life of every mortal from birth to death. They were independent, at the helm of necessity, directed fate, and watched that the fate assigned to every being by eternal laws might take its course without obstruction.

--

It seems that originally the word moira did not indicate destiny but included ascertainment or proof, a non-abstract certainty. The word daemon, which was an agent related to unexpected events, came to be similar to the word moira.[12] This agent or cause against human control might be also called tyche (chance, fate).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moirai

97 Klotho - destined beginnings, spinning the thread of life
120 Lachesis - destined length of life
273 Atropos - cutter of the cord of life
638 Moira - the hand of fate
258 Tyche 

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LeeLoo 's thread on the Norns available here. Copied with permission

The Norse equivalent of the Three Fates

URD - the past
VERDANDI - the present
SKULD - the future

I would interpret URD as having a South Node vibe, and SKULD a North Node vibe. In fact, I think URD is co-ruler of your SN, and SKULD co-ruler of your NN.

In the Composite, I would assume Urd shows the SN of the relationship and perhaps it gives some clues about the beginning of it. Verdandi would be a clue about the theme, the basic nature of the relationship. Skuld would have a NN/MC vibe, showing the prospects of the relationship.

The Three Norns in strong aspects would be a fated marker.

What are your Norns in natal, synastry, composite?

asteroid URDA 167
asteroid WERDANDI 621
asteroid SKULD 1130

The Norns (Old Norse: norn, plural: nornir) in Norse mythology[1] are female beings who rule the destiny of gods and men, possibly a kind of dísir (see below), and comparable to the Moirai (also called "The Fates") in Greek mythology.

According to Snorri Sturluson's interpretation of the Völuspá, the three most important norns, Urðr (Wyrd), Verðandi and Skuld come out from a hall standing at the Well of Urðr (well of fate) and they draw water from the well and take sand that lies around it, which they pour over Yggdrasill so that its branches will not rot.[2] These norns are described as three powerful maiden giantesses (Jotuns) whose arrival from Jötunheimr ended the golden age of the gods.


Urðr (Old Norse "fate"[1]) is one of the Norns in Norse mythology.[1] Along with Verðandi (possibly "happening" or "present"[2]) and Skuld (possibly "debt" or "future"[3]), Urðr makes up a trio of Norns that are described as deciding the fates of people. Urðr is attested in stanza 20 of the Poetic Edda poem Völuspá and the Prose Edda book Gylfaginning.

Urðr is together with the Norns located at the well Urðarbrunnr beneath the world ash tree Yggdrasil of Asgard. They spin threads of life, cut marks in the pole figures and measure people's destinies, which shows the fate of all human beings and gods. Norns are always present when a child is born and decide its fate. The three Norns represent the past (Urðr), future (Skuld) and present (Verðandi)

Wiki

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To copy:

97, 120, 273, 638, 258, 167, 621, 1130

[lumina]

Jun 25, 2017 13:43:02 GMT Ava said:

I would interpret URD as having a South Node vibe, and SKULD a North Node vibe. In fact, I think URD is co-ruler of your SN, and SKULD co-ruler of your NN.

In the Composite, I would assume Urd shows the SN of the relationship and perhaps it gives some clues about the beginning of it. Verdandi would be a clue about the theme, the basic nature of the relationship. Skuld would have a NN/MC vibe, showing the prospects of the relationship.

I like the clarity of this

[Deleted]

Great topic Ava. We seem to have fate asteroids dominating our charts:

My natal
Moira conj Asc trine Skuld
Karma conj Sun
Vertex conj NN
Skuld conj Isis (exact) and Osiris (1) at the GA

His natal
Karma conj NN/anti-vertex
Skuld conj SN/vertex
Lachesis conj Chiron

Synastry
Me ---------- Him
Urda conj Sun
Moira conj MC
Atropos/Lachesis conj Karma/NN/Anti-vertex
Atropos/Lachesis opposite Vertex/Skuld
Venus conj Klotho

Composite
Tyche on MC
Moira/ Urda conj Pluto/ Jupiter
Skuld conj Vertex opposite Venus trine Werdandi

Interestingly, we both have vertex on the nodal axis. Perhaps we have complimentary lessons to learn. Odd that Skuld (if it points to the future) in his chart is conjunct his SN. I wonder what part vertex is also playing at this point.

Our composite has vertex conjunct Skuld. So, are we destined to have a profound perhaps life-changing effect on each other? Which may continue the promise of Urda conjunct Pluto.

[Violets]

Thanks, Ava! Cool thread and nifty info! 💕

Interesting to see in my chart, as many of the Greek Fates are at the same degrees in my chart, making trines and conjunct my AC/DC axis. There's a Yod involving my Mars if you count less than 2 degrees for the aspects. I'll get to the details when I can post from a computer and not my phone.

[Ava]

Jun 25, 2017 14:13:32 GMT lumina said:

Jun 25, 2017 13:43:02 GMT Ava said:

I would interpret URD as having a South Node vibe, and SKULD a North Node vibe. In fact, I think URD is co-ruler of your SN, and SKULD co-ruler of your NN.

In the Composite, I would assume Urd shows the SN of the relationship and perhaps it gives some clues about the beginning of it. Verdandi would be a clue about the theme, the basic nature of the relationship. Skuld would have a NN/MC vibe, showing the prospects of the relationship.

I like the clarity of this

Yes.

Well my husband and I have a lot going on with these. Here's our composite; transits for my birthday.




If my birth time is correct, I have Moira exactly on the DSC, and Moira opposes my husband's sun. That may help explain the numerous aspects with the Fates here. 

My sun-Tyche conjunct composite Moira; composite NN conjunct Tyche.

[Ava]

Jun 25, 2017 19:00:14 GMT @astrokeen said:

Our composite has vertex conjunct Skuld. So, are we destined to have a profound perhaps life-changing effect on each other? Which may continue the promise of Urda conjunct Pluto.

I wish I knew. But that does look as if you two might bring out the forward-mindedness of each other. If Urd-Pluto can be overcome (?) Anything locked in with Pluto is going to have a special kind of presence in a relationship...if it's the past, one wonders what exactly the past is made of? Is your mutual past full of things that neither of you wants to let go of? Maybe good memories or maybe slights that remain too vivid? 

I can't say how it works, I'm just trying to understand. 

[Ava]

Jun 25, 2017 22:14:09 GMT Violets said:

Thanks, Ava ! Cool thread and nifty info! 💕

Interesting to see in my chart, as many of the Greek Fates are at the same degrees in my chart, making trines and conjunct my AC/DC axis. There's a Yod involving my Mars if you count less than 2 degrees for the aspects. I'll get to the details when I can post from a computer and not my phone.

Thanks, Violets! When it's convenient for you....

[whisperix]

Oh! Very interesting. Thank you very much for the share!
Moira seems to be a topic in my chart. It is conjunct Pluto - the focal point of one of my yods.
I checked the composite with my ex. It is conjunct Neptune.
With my children it is conjunct Venus and Mars.


HaHaHa! Found some more fate!

[lumina]

great findings you all!


and Ava

my eyes are glued to your composite conjunction of Tyche-NN-Mercury in Scorpio in 5th house in the composite. Was this triggered when you got married or had your children?


For me personally, hmm, what I do notice in my natal is a triple conjunction of MOIRA, WERDANDI, LONDON and LANCELOT from 14-16 Scorpio in 11th house (the missing link for a Grand trine with my Saturn on 16 Cancer and Juno on 16 Pisces)



KLOTHO on 17 Cap in 2nd house opposes Saturn exact, making this a Kite obviously.


ATROPOS on 19 Aquarius in 2nd house conjunct Moon by 2 degrees and sextile Chiron exact


URDA on 00 Leo in 8th house conjunct Priapus exact and squaring Uranus on 01 Scorpio on 11th house cusp

TYCHE on 10 Scorpio in 11th house trines my CERES-Jupiter from 9-11 PIsces, but that`s about it.


EDIT
Seems my "fate" natally revolves around the fixed houses, with that emphasis on 11th house, and the 2nd-8th house axis. 

[Violets]

Hm.
Dsc 14 Aquarius
Klotho 14 Aquarius,
PoF 13 Aquarius
Moira 14 Sag
Asc 14 Leo

Tyche 27 Scorpio
Lachesis 27 Taurus
Mars 26 Capricorn

That's what stands out for me immediately, but I'm still on my phone, so exact minutes and other aspects are tedious atm.

I haven't plugged in the Norse Asteroids yet...

[lumina]

Violets

maybe newbeginnings in relationships or way of relating. I think 14 Aqua was a nice Sabian as well, something about happy lovebirds.


For some reason, cannot say why, Tyche-Lachesis-Mars, makes me think of stamina, a good robust health or at least strong recovery powers, mostly in touch with nature.  

[Violets]

Ah, I like that lumina, thank you! And accurate with the Tyche-Lachesis-Mars! 💕

[lumina]

For my own natal I wonder if

the PRESENT (WErdandi) is my major fate (MOIRA), and obviously it includes experiences of intensity (Scorpio) in terms of friends, groups, the collective and maybe even most of all the affection I receive or how I deal with being shown appreciation by others.

TYCHE is also in Scorpio in 11th house, though 4 degrees apart from the others, so there is some good fortune present there as well in dealing with these things.


With Urda on 00 Leo in 8th house, and Klotho on 17 Cap in 2nd house, I am wondering, if maybe I am asked to leave a certain obsession with the past behind (Priapus conjuncts Urda, and in 8th house and Leo, this could certainly spell out some dramatic passionate urge to merge, but of course can also tilt to the clinging to the past with Urda there; though it seems that if it is like a SN, that I am actually quite capable of connecting with other people in a very deep way, though interestingly enough I ahve SAturn in that house as well, but in Cancer).

and with Klotho on 17 Cap in 2nd house, maybe this is a push into focusing more on myself, about a groundedness and feeling of value I find in myself, and how I give and express myself in that earthy way and feel secure in doing so, instead of possibly losing myself in what others might want of me.

Atropos is also in 2nd house, but in Aqua, and actually conjuncts Moon. Not sure what that means, maybe that I am going through emotional cycles. well everyone does, but sometimes it feels to me like I`ve lived half a dozen lives all squeezed into this single one, because of the kathartic experiences I am going through on a pretty regular level, and I can feel quite dramatic shifts internally more than once in my life.
Atropos is also pretty inflexible, she represents that which cannot be avoided, and in my case conjunct MOon and actually Dionysos, it seems like a more bacchian or dionysian overflowing emotional exerience ccannot really be avoided. Dionysos is not the god of ecstasy for nothing. But at the same time Atropos might also be the one cutting any too extreme experiences there. though honestly I am not really sure how to interprete her.

What I find also interesting is that TYCHE is exactly conjunct my Draconic Vertex-Eros and Sun/Moon-mp.

[Ava]

I'm amazed at how prominent these asteroids are, in all of our charts. Thanks for the replies!

More replies welcome, if you want to revisit the topic and explore it more (no pressure )

lumina

"my eyes are glued to your composite conjunction of Tyche-NN-Mercury in Scorpio in 5th house in the composite. Was this triggered when you got married or had your children?"

Not really, except one son's moon is there.

Thing is, we had our first date and decided to get married within days of that, with transiting sun conjunct composite Skuld-Urda, on my Uranus.

"With Urda on 00 Leo in 8th house, and Klotho on 17 Cap in 2nd house"

My Saturn is @ 0 Leo, sun @ 15 Cap. We were meant to know each other. My Lachesis @ 17 Leo opposes your moon and is conjunct my sun-moon midpoint.

I like that....Lachesis, the measure of my days, the span of my life, connected to my sun and moon, hooked right into the center.

I have many of these asteroids doing interesting things. Wish I knew my death date in advance so I could run a study on it now. "Oh look, I'm dying with transiting Atropos-Skuld-Pluto! I knew it would be like that!" 

Anyway, Werdandi is the one that virtually stands alone. I have it at 3° Cap. It's conjunct asteroid Zeus, Astraea, Geometria, and Polar Ascendant. But it doesn't aspect anything major in my chart. I like how those asteroids point to mysticism though.

[Violets]

Oh, I had a rambling post there that I deleted. Yes, I would like to look more in-depth at these asteroids, lol.

[lumina]

Ava

"Thing is, we had our first date and decided to get married within days of that, with transiting sun conjunct composite Skuld-Urda, on my Uranus."
That is very telling though, putting emphasis on this. Interesting to have Skuld and Urda conjunct in Composite. Past and future together.


" Saturn is @ 0 Leo, sun @ 15 Cap. We were meant to know each other. "
Absolutely.


" My Lachesis @ 17 Leo opposes your moon and is conjunct my sun-moon midpoint. "
Interesting. P`s Urda is on 17 Leo. His Lachesis-Skuld is on 18 Aries I think, closely conjunct M`s Mercury-Venus, and making a Grand trine in their synastry Chart. Interestingly I`ve always "missed" something of his fall onto the mid of fixed signs; not sure a rather obscure Asteroid like Urda really fits the bill, to be honest I think I am still missing something more Major around 15-19 Taurus, Leo, Scorpio, Aquarius in his Chart. Or even 15-19 degrees of ANY of the signs.

It`s just soooo obvious that not only me has something going on in regard to the 15-19 range, but his wife has, too (in her case NN on 18 Taurus, Mercury-Venus on 17 Aries trine Uranus on 17 Sagittarius), and so did his longterm ex-girlfriend had (Sun 19 Aqua, Moon possibly near as well;), his first Born (Saturn on 16 Scorpio, Chiron on 17 Pisces, Uranus on 16 Aries, Venus on 15 Cancer) and his second Born (Jupiter on 14 Virgo, Saturn on 16 Sag possibly conjunct Moon, Pluto on 17 Cap, Mercury on 15 Aries and Uranus on 19 Aries).


It just seems so weird that P himself seems to NOT have anything there - except for Lilith falling onto 18 Virgo.

I disgress though. lol




" Wish I knew my death date in advance"
god, no!!!!


"Oh look, I'm dying with transiting Atropos-Skuld-Pluto! I knew it would be like that!"
Chances are, if you do not meet a violent demise, which we will not hope, there will be a lot of quinkunxes and nice Jupiter and nodal aspects Happening.

the Atropos-Pluto-Skuld might happen in the Chart of your children and husband more likely.


Werdandi is the one that virtually stands alone.


In my Chart These are Skuld (26 Libra) and Lachesis (24 Taurus).

[Ava]

lumina,

"It just seems so weird that P himself seems to NOT have anything there - except for Lilith falling onto 18 Virgo."

It's a little strange, all things considered.

"Chances are, if you do not meet a violent demise, which we will not hope, there will be a lot of quinkunxes and nice Jupiter and nodal aspects Happening."

Lots or morphine happening too, I hope.

Sorry, I can have a morbid sense of humor.

"n my Chart These are Skuld (26 Libra) and Lachesis (24 Taurus)."

Hmmm... quincunx? The future is uncertain? What happens when a yod is formed with these?

I really haven't fully grasped these asteroids yet. Not a big surprise since I have never taken a strong interest in mythology. But I want to *see* what these are saying. I believe in Atropos as you know. I'd like a working understanding of the others.