Synastry vs Composite?

[Violets]

Which do you find to be more prominent in relationships of all kinds (friendships, family, romantic, whatever)?

[lumina]

Both

[Violets]

lumina, what about when they're completely contadidory? Like the synastry is fine, but the composite is like "Omg, volcanic eruption"?

I have reasons for asking, obviously. My son's synastry with his little step-cousin is fine. Their composite is awful. They constantly want to play together, but then we end up with a little combat zone after about an hour. 😑😳🙄

[lumina]

Violets ,

this case does not exist, not really.
The composite is the result of synastry and interacting with it so to speak.

In fact the composite is a handy tool to trace the big themes in a synastry, as if you have a conjunction or opposition in a composition this is ALWAYS the result of people having the same resonance with that theme.

Sometimes the natal aspect comes up even in both natals, sometimes it is just the same angular distance, but the theme is there.

If the angular distance is the same but in complementary phases (for example Venus before Plulto in one, Venus behind Pluto in the other natal chart - and the same amount of degree distance obviously) then the composite will show this as conjunction or opposition. If it is the same phase, the natal aspect will be replicated (like in the case of P`s and my Venus-Pluto-square, which we both have natally, and hence it comes up in composite as well).


In fact I think the secret to delineating relationship astrologically (next to the progressions ) is in combining the composite with the synastry and the natals - and it works most prominently in terms of "resonance".

(BTW this also extends to transits, it`s the resonant transits that are most important, as there is a manifestation of what is inside us in the outer world - non-resonant big transits also have their merit, usually in shocking us out of a complacency and give us a push in a certain direction, but it is the resonant ones that help us expressing some internal aspects - the natal promise - that lead to the lasting changes).


But back to synastry and composite - even if there are huge themes in the composite they still have to be activated or hooking into the natals. Usually that happens by overlays with the natal, or highlighting a synastric aspect, either through resonance (composite has Mercury-Neptune, you share a DW aspect in synastry) or because of this exact overlay (the composite Mercury-Neptune overlaying a synastric Venus-Jupiter for example, because it happens on the same degrees) and then when some transits happen, well the activation becomes very visible.


It sometimes seems like the composite sais something different than synastry, but it really doesn`t. It just makes the resonant areas in both natals more transparent.


I recommend DAvid Cochranes essay on composites for this. Well I think I had a thread on LL about this.

www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/219549.html


Later on he also researched that more and found that other aspects but the conjunction/Opposition might be important in a composite.

[Violets]

I have no idea what you just said. 😂
I don't consider myself dim-witted, but this is where astrology becomes too intricate for me. I suppose if I looked at both charts and compared them to the composite I would figure it out (they both have rather difficult charts). It's just baffling to me that in their synastry there are mostly trines, and their composite is just "wth?!"

I'll figure it out, lol.

[Violets]

I suppose it would require me to look at midpoints, which I understand but haven't looked into at any length. In time, I suppose... Thank you for explaining though, lumina. 💕

[lumina]

Ava ,

no, there aren`t any mathematical coincidences in a Composite, as the Composite is the result of a purely mathematical relation (adding two planetary positions and divide them by 2).

however there are several ways that one and the same aspect can turn up in the natal comparision.

the conjunction/ Opposition in a Composite is a Special case, because a real Double Whammy is involved (the same aspect between same planets, so two conjunctions, two sextiles, two noviles, two septiles - does not Need to be a Major aspect, in fact it could also be just something as simple as Moon and Venus being 20 degrees apart in each horoscope)

the conjunction/ Opposition only happens though if those Double whammies are in different aspect phases (waxing/ waning).


the next Special Scenario is an aspect in Composite, that is no conjunction/ Opposition, but derived from the same aspect in the natal Charts (two squares, two trines etc.) - in this case the aspect Phase would be identical: both waxing, both waning (if not we would get a conjunction or Opposition)



Of course a Composite square (or any other Composite aspect) can be the result of very different natal aspects underlying this, or let`s say angular distances.


For example: if you have a quinkunx between Sun and Mars, one possibility to get to a Composite square would be if your husband had a semisextile between Sun and Mars.
I do not know where his sun and Mars are, but one example would be if his Sun was at about 7 Leo and his Mars at around 7 Virgo.

Of course there could probably be more Scenarios that would result in a square, I am just not Aware of them yet.
the semisextile was an easy one to arrive, cause 150° (your aspect) added to 30° (the hypothetical semisextile) would be 180°, since we have two People in a Composite we have to divide it by 2, and arrive at 90° - a square.



another example from P`s and my Composite


my NN 10 Sag
my Mars 5 Sag

So my Mars is 5 degrees BEFORE my NN

his NN 1 Virgo
his Mars 11 Virgo
his Mars is 10 degrees AFTER his NN


As there is quite a bit of difference in orb involved, we do find the orb in Composite again (divided by 2 of course, as we are putting 2 Charts together)


We would expect a conjunction or Opposition in Composite - because approximately the same angular distance exists, but one is waning, one is waxing.


in reality it Looks like this in the Composite

NN 20 Libra
mars 23 Libra


A whacky underlying aspect configuration would be this one here:


My Saturn 17 Cancer
my Juno 17 Pisces - a trine
his Saturn 26 virgo
his Juno 26 Cancer - a sextile


and something crazy happens as in the Composite

Saturn 21 Leo
Juno 22 Taurus
- a square


the mathematical reason is simple

the trine (120>°) added to the sextile (60°) is 180°; divided by 2, we arrive at a square.
So certain trines and sextile double whammies will result in a Composite square aspect.

Mathematically quite easy, the question is what is the implication for the Composite?


actually I think whenever we see an aspect in the Composite, we should trace the underlying natal aspects, or even synastric ones of These two planets, as this might modify the Expression, though more Research is needed on this.

[lumina]

If you are interested, here are some videos by David Cochrane on composites.


A short article


www.astrosoftware.com/Symmetries.htm











This one is actually about an event composite, so making a composite of the transits with your natal - but another person could be seen as living and breathing transits to our chart anyway, so just think of the transiting chart as another`s natal, the calculation is the same. 

[lumina]

As for the "three symmetries" he mentions.


Composite Alignment in his words is always a conjunction or opposition in the composite chart, and he sticks to a pretty tight orb. 2-2,5 degrees, but sais the orb will be around 1-1,5 degrees for strong connections.

From his perspective that makes a lot of sense, too, as a 3 degree orb in a composite, could actually mean a difference of about 6 degrees in the natal charts and the underlying natal or synastric aspects.


For example in P`s and my composite Moon is widely conjunct Venus with 6 degree orb (and yes I still count that But actually I mostly care the midpoint of this conjunction as it seems to draw both planets in and is a really interesting point, that seems to be triggered a lot. At the moment Tr Pluto is there actually.
It could be however that the midpoint of the widish conjunction is easily activated, cause the Nodal axis is just one degree off squaring it, and progressed nodes are currently in an exact square to these 19 degrees of Capricorn)


But anyway as for the underlying natal figures, this means

My Moon 17 Aquarius
my Venus 6 Capricorn

so 41 degrees angular distance (they are novile, well a WAXING novile as Moon as the faster planet is behind Venus and moving towards the opposition)



his Moon 28 Sagittarius
his Venus 26 Capricorn

- 28 degrees - so definitely NOT the same underlying natal aspect (for him it is closer to a semisextile)


The difference is about 12 degrees, and well as you remember we have to divide that difference by 2 to arrive at the orb for composite, hence 6 degree orb for the conjunction.

But the orb for the underlying natal aspects is too wide to be called the same aspect or angular distance.
You only get that kind of resonance (same aspect), if the orbs are pretty close.

So for a conjunction of 3 degrees in the composite, the difference in orb for a natal aspect must be under 6 degrees.
So if I have a trine betweeon two planets in my natal with 1 degree orb, the other person needs to have the same aspect with an orb of max. 5 degrees, or the conjunction/ opposition in composite would be too wide.


Well let`s use a slightly widish one.

the composite has an Uranus-Eros-opposition. (opposition and ocnjunction are interchangeable btw, as midpoints are always on an axis)

c-Uranus 12 Scorpio
c-Eros 15 Taurus

so an opposition with 3 degrees

his Uranus 23 Scorpio
his Eros 8 Pisces
- 105° (waxing) (pretty close to the biseptile, with an orb of about 2,5 degrees, which is of course quite wide for a biseptile)

my Uranus 01 Scorpio
my Eros 21 Cancer
- 100° (waning) also pretty close to the biseptile, with an orb of about 2,5 degrees, but from the other side)


maybe in this instance even more interesting is the synastric relation

His Uranus on 23 Scorpio trines my Eros on 21 Cancer (within reasonable orb: 2 degrees)
my Uranus 0n 1 Scorpio almost trines his Eros on 8 Pisces (7 degrees is of course too wide for a trine)

However, the difference between those orb-figures (2 and 7 degrees, is about 5-6 degrees, and dividing by 2, that 3 degree is the orb we end up with for the composite)


So actually one composite alignment gives us 3 informations:
- the planets that are aligned and in resonance (Uranus and Eros)
- the underlying individual natal resonance which is the same for both people (in this case we individually both resonate with the 7th harmonic/ septile family, in terms of Uranus-ERos)
- the underlying synastric resonance (in this instance, it has trine-character, when we relate to each other, though of course they are not exact).


But all of this just works with conjunction/ opposition like this I think, AND I think it is understandable how the orbs have to be really close for this.

I am sure other aspects are important too, but in this instance there is just this 3 fold resonance, so it seems like quite a theme.



This does work with other aspects, too btw, IF the underlying natal angular distance is the same.



The other aspects that are derived from different underlying natal aspects are not so much about resonance and mirroring and bringing out already existent themes, I think, but they are drawing people together because they are different in some respects, or at least expressing a certain theme differently, but if an aspect exists in composite, there would be some complementing happening still.

At least that is what I think for now.



Was that too complicated or confusingly expressed now? I mean English is not my mother tongue, so it is sometimes a bit difficult to elaborate on my thoughts on these things in an understandable way. So if I confused you, I am sorry.

[lumina]

Ava

that is what I suspected, it has to do with the tightness of orb.
Cochrane sais that he found the composite aspects that are really tight to be central themes, but those over 3 degrees not so much.
They might still be relevant in some way (I personally can think of a few possibilities why), but they are not the core issues.
(HOwever have a look at those progressed composites, too. the square might actually have come closer through progression; for example in P`s and M`s composite there is a widish trine between Venus at 3 Pisces and Mars at 10 Pisces, which has reached it`s peak in april last year, and is now separating, of course slowly. Currently it`s at 0°26 separating, and will leave the one degreee orb in august 2018. Anyway, I get distracted, but what I wanted to say is that I think the progressions were the reason that the aspect was more prominent than it should havve been per composite orb; I guess it was prominent. I don´t really know of course. lol Btw coincidence or not, in may 2013 this Venus-Mars-progression had just come into 1 degree orb for them)


Anyway I personally do check composites for aspects up to 6 degrees approximately, in exceptional cases even taking note of 7-8 degrees. But I also can see Cochrane`s point about the 3 degree mark. The ones under it really take the cake, those and the progressed ones.


In this instance it will be interesting to see for P and me (not talking about how our progressed composite is slowly slowly developing a progressed Venus-Mars-trine, also with Venus in Pisces, but this time to a Scorpio-Mars. LOL the irony just blows my mind! Or coincidence or however I should call it. It is still very wide though, I think over 3 degrees applying, but still, funny.)


I just noticed recently something intriguing int he progressed charts and hence composite.


let`s take the current date

my pr Moon 8 Virgo
my n Venus 6 Capricorn
- so my pr Moon just passed the trine to my n Venus


his pr Moon 22 Taurus
his n Venus 25 Capricorn
- his pr Moon is just applying to a trine to his n Venus

This alerts me to the fact that somewhen in between those two exact aspects, a composite aspect must occur. Either a trine or a conjunction/ opposition. since my aspect is a waning trine, and his is a waxing trine, it should be a conjunction/ opposition.


And indeed there will be.


in mid- june this year

pr composite Moon 16 Cancer
n composite Venus 16 Capricorn


(there is nothing scheduled in june, but I still thought that was interesting).

Because we both have that same aspect in the progressions forming (me a bit sooner, him a bit later) it also shows in the progressed composite to natal composite.


The other thing I remember out of the top of my head is that next year in july we`ll have

his pMoon 7 gemini (and his pASC on 7 Gemini as well)
my n DESC 7 Gemini


my pMoon 25 Virgo
his nDESC 25 Virgo


This actually happens simultaneously, within 10 days or so, I mean the absolute exact peak is taking just 10 days apart from each other.

But of course that means something must come up in the composite as well, and so pr composite Moon will be on 1 Leo on our n composite DESC.


Another thing that takes a bit more time to form, is the fullmoon - I`ve had my progressed fullmoon in may 2015 (on 8 Aqua-Leo), his progressed fullmoon will take place in july 2023 (11 Aqua-Leo)


Of course the composite progressed fullmoon takes place in the middle in between, actually january 2019 (9 Aqua- Leo); and no of course, it is NOT always the case that the progressed fullmoons take place in the same signs for two people. It`s a curious coincidence.


We will both have pMoon trine pSun individually (him in june/July 2018, me a bit later in july/august 2019

btw that is the reason for the progressed fullmoon, opposition forming,

his pMoon 7 Gemini
his pSun 7 Aquarius
- a wwaxing trine

my pMoon 11 Libra
my pSun 11 Aquarius
- a waning trine


so our progressed Sun-Moon-opposition will come with the individual trine-progressions.



and in 2021 the pr Venus-Mars-trine will peak from 11 PIsces - 11 Scorpio, with pr Moon on 11 Virgo




oh and just one more tidbit

in november/ december 2019 he will have pMoon on 26 Gemini opposing nSun on 26 Sag.
I had that same relation in august 2012 (yeah there is always a 7-8 year cycle involved for us, and with the composite a 4 year cycle, as this is the mid between us two, first I experience something, then it manifests in the composite and somehow that shared experience flows into an individual experience for him after that. Interesting timeline.


our composite had the pr Moon opposite n Sun in february 2016 btw.
Remember the concert back then? the orb of the opposition was just 28 minutes separating, and pr Moon is a fast moving one, so this would have been within orb only in february and march.

NOt bad for timing, right?



Sorry I got distracted soooo much.

[Violets]

I'm still in "this is way to complicated for me right now" mode (I tend to really get into studying various bits of astrology when the urge strikes me, which tends to be rather sporadic). Math isn't difficult for me, but I have to have the time and energy to really look at such things in order to grasp them effectively. Some day, lol...

But I did want to chime in and say that yes, your English is perfect, lumina! 💕

[lumina]

Ava Violets

thank you.