Draconic solstice points

[Ava]

I was thinking of solstice points this morning and then realized that transiting Mercury entering Scorpio is on the solstice point of Saturn @ 0 Pisces. The Mercury/Saturn midpoint is 0 Cap, and they are equidistant from that. To be overly succinct, if anyone is unfamiliar with this concept: whenever two planets are equidistant from the solstices (0 Cancer and 0 Cap) they are called solstice points or antiscion. The degrees opposite the antiscion are called contra-antiscion.

Other articles can explain this better than I can, but if your sun is at 5 Cap, its antiscia would be 25 Sag. 5 Cap is five degrees ahead of 0 Cap, 25 Sag is 5 degrees before it. See?

To obtain a list of your antiscion and contra-antiscion degrees, you can go to astro.com and select "Munich Rhythm Method" for the chart drawing style (thanks again to lumina for showing me this). When the chart comes up, click "Additional tables" and the antiscia are listed at the bottom of the first page. The first column are the contra-antiscia degrees and the second are the antiscia degrees. To make it simple I'm regarding them as an axis and just calling them antiscia here. 

Astro.com provides antiscia for draconic charts as well.

I've been looking through a lot of charts in my astro databank and found a few curiosities in synastry.

All DRACONIC here unless otherwise specified....

1. I know A LOT of people who have a planet with antiscia tightly conjunct my natal (tropical) nodal axis. In fact my wedding chart's sun's antiscia are exactly on my nodes. Likewise my oldest son's sun's antiscia are tightly conjunct my nodes; meanwhile my youngest son's antiscia are close by and exactly conjunct my husband's nodes (he's the father of all my kids btw).
 
2. I have a lot of significant relationships with my draconic planet or antiscia = their antiscia.

For example, my draconic Mercury @ 16 Gem, my husband's draconic Mercury's antiscia axis is 13 Sag/Gem. His draco Mercury is 16 Cap, my draco Mercury antiscia axis is 13 Cancer/Cap (leaving off minutes, so not exact here).

3. My draconic antiscia = their tropical antiscia for the same planet...let's say Venus. More specifically Venus in Pisces (does exaltation still count, this far down a rabbit hole?) Had this with an ex.


I'm curious to know if you find or have found anything, looking at this kind of chart.

[lumina]

Ava

interesting observation.

And you have quite some very specific stuff going on there, Mercury is really interesting to me, esp. in light on how your husband and you have to "work it out" in terms of communications, and how you do, like not giving up on coming to some sort of understanding, though it might be a struggle sometimes (though this is probably true for most relationships, not only marriages. lol)

I noticed that mostly in my case it is from Draco - to - tropical level, within the Draco chart itself there is just my Draco Saturn on the antiscia of his Draco Venus (I only mention it one direction, but of course if my Draco Saturn is on the antision of his Draco Venus it also is the other way round, like in our case, 23/ 24 Leo and 5/ 6 Scorpio I think, well my Draco Saturn is at 6 Scorpio, his Draco Venus is at 24 Leo).

This connection is not totally partile, but I extended the orb to 1°30 so giving it a bit more leeway than the usual one degree orb.

I find this particularly interesting as HIS Draco Saturn is exactly conjunct my Draco Venus directly, lots of Saturn stuff in terms of Venus-things.

Apart from that my antiscion Draco Jupiter is on 28 Sag- Gemini, right on his tropical Moon-MC-conjunction on 28 Sag.

And his antiscion Draco Neptune on 10 Sag - Gemini falls onto my tropical Neptune-NN on 10 Sag (and his own Mercury on 9 Sag).

Well my Draco Jupiter is on 1 Cancer, so it is close to the antiscion axis anyway, as is his Moon-MC. I also have Draco Ceres on 28 Gemini.

[Ava]

Thanks lumina ,

My husband and I have a wide (about 4°) Mercury/Mercury quincunx in tropical, then because our nodes are about 4° apart, that quincunx tightens up and in draconic. Then as you see they also form a solstice point connection.

"...like not giving up on coming to some sort of understanding, though it might be a struggle sometimes"

If you can't communicate about certain things you end up finding new and different things to communicate about. My natal Aqua Mercury is game for this.

But also I think, because his draco Mercury is tightly conjunct my natal tropical sun, this shows how I'm open to adopting some of his ideas, even if it's not how I would typically think. Well there can be a blurring of lines when ideas don't occur to me naturally, but I end up subscribing to them, and I wonder how deep those convictions go if I merely signed on for convenience's sake (better to just agree and let it be.)

Anyway I should have mentioned that astro.com's default setting for draconic charts uses true node, but when you draw up the draconic Munich Rhythm Method it switches to mean node, so there are discrepancies.

My mean and true nodes are about 1°03 apart while my husband's are only about 0°17 apart. Using mean nodes, our draconic Mercuries are exactly (partile) quincunx, but using true nodes, they're not. However, using true nodes, their antiscia are even more tightly conjunct.

Anyway since the discrepancy between true and mean node varies person to person, maybe for standardization's sake, it's actually better to use mean node with draconic synastry? Hmm

As for me, my draco sun's antiscia are 3°09 Leo/Aqua (mean) and 4°12 Leo/Aqua (true)...true node draco antiscia conjunct natal rectified Mercury @ 5°00 Aqua, so less than 1° orb.


" lots of Saturn stuff in terms of Venus-things."

Yes yes

I've noticed a lot of conjunctions to my draco Saturn's antiscia @ 18 Cap/Cancer. Just figures, because Saturn can be so binding.

"Apart from that my antiscion Draco Jupiter is on 28 Sag- Gemini, right on his tropical Moon-MC-conjunction on 28 Sag."

Call me crazy but I think that's cool.

"And his antiscion Draco Neptune on 10 Sag - Gemini falls onto my tropical Neptune-NN on 10 Sag (and his own Mercury on 9 Sag)."

So is this. Neptune to Neptune exact...definitely fits the connection and its astrological patterns.

My true node draco Venus @ 16 Aries conjunct my husband's draco Neptune antiscia @ 15 Aries/Libra. He was having his "draco Neptune antiscia return" when we got married.

Well so far I don't see any predictive value with these charts because there is simply too much to juggle between natal and draconic charts, natal and antiscia placements, true and mean node, etc. I'd love to think there is a method to all the madness but don't know how much time it's appropriate to waste looking for it in vain.

My draconic chart ruler is Jupiter in Leo, draco Jupiter antiscia are 2 or 3 Taurus (mean/true). I have known and I'm related to so many people whose tropical nodal axis is there. Well my draco Jupiter on my mother's sun, and my draco Jupiter's antiscia are on her nodes.

Apart from that NOT a lot in synastry -- comparing draco antiscia to draco antiscia. In my immediate family, no one save for my Cancer son has anything there, but he and I have an exact draco Jupiter/Jupiter opposition so it carries over to the antiscia. I'm kind of disappointed there aren't more connections there.

[lumina]

Ava

But also I think, because his draco Mercury is tightly conjunct my natal tropical sun, this shows how I'm open to adopting some of his ideas, even if it's not how I would typically think. 

Interesting. So in this instance the draco planet "gently nudges" the tropical planet forwards?

Anyway I should have mentioned that astro.com's default setting for draconic charts uses true node, but when you draw up the draconic Munich Rhythm Method it switches to mean node, so there are discrepancies."

Oh did not know that. I am only using true node. I wonder if I can switch manually to true node.

oh I see I already did that before looking up the antiscias in DRaconics (I pretty much out of a reflex always click the true node button. lol)

, it's actually better to use mean node with draconic synastry? Hmm"

No, not in my book.The Node is defined as the point when the Moon crosses the ecliptic, so has a latitude of zero, and therefore the Node must be conjunct the Moon at that point, this is only true for the true Node.

Call me crazy but I think that's cool.

Yes, me, too. My Jupiter is also quintile his Moon-MC, so maybe that strenghtens that aspect.

So is this. Neptune to Neptune exact...definitely fits the connection and its astrological patterns.

Yes, I think it does.

My true node draco Venus @ 16 Aries conjunct my husband's draco Neptune antiscia @ 15 Aries/Libra. He was having his "draco Neptune antiscia return" when we got married.

Aww, magic was in the air!

Well so far I don't see any predictive value with these charts because there is simply too much to juggle between natal and draconic charts, natal and antiscia placements, true and mean node, etc. 

Yes, I agree.

My draconic chart ruler is Jupiter in Leo, draco Jupiter antiscia are 2 or 3 Taurus (mean/true). I have known and I'm related to so many people whose tropical nodal axis is there. Well my draco Jupiter on my mother's sun, and my draco Jupiter's antiscia are on her nodes.

Very regal! Love that it seems all so warm, really, both Leo and Taurus, and then there is Jupiter boosting it.

so my draconic chartruler is Neptune in Pisces, Draco Neptune antiscia is on 00 Aries, traditional it is Jupiter in Cancer and antiscion on 28 Sag.

For him it is draconic chartruler, Venus in Leo, antiscion on 5 Scorpio.

Apart from that NOT a lot in synastry -- comparing draco antiscia to draco antiscia. I

Same here. 

I'm kind of disappointed there aren't more connections there.

Yeah, I thought so too, but however maybe it is not about the amount of connection, but what is there, points to some very specific "focal point" or aspect of the connection, but no clue really.

[Ava]

Hi lumina

"Interesting. So in this instance the draco planet 'gently nudges' the tropical planet forwards?"

Well my husband's draco Mercury-Venus-Mars-Pluto stellium falls across my sun, and I have a strong "ear" for mid-Cap energy of course. Part of that is a very strong desire to find *absolutes*...absolute guidance to get you to the top of the mountain. Well he was a mountain climber (fits). You need sturdy ropes and pitons, trustworthy climbing partners, etc. And I do think Cap Mercury natives are good at finding those rock-solid bits of truth and wisdom, practical nuts and bolts of life. Whatever works. My progressed Mercury was in Cap forever so I get that.

So I can speak that language and reach him that way, and I think some of that is for me, even if in the moment it's more like a performance for him.

There's that other side to Cap though...the part that has to pray because you're stuck on that mountain and something went wrong and you need magic in order to survive. Mid-Cap energy can be weird like that, actually more interested in supernatural and metaphysical stuff. So for him, he's got religion and that fits the bill. I've known other Cap Mercuries who are content with putting all their spiritual eggs in that one basket -- religion -- and even I have tried that before (when my pr Mercury was in Cap.)

He hates all this New Age stuff, but as time goes on (Cap takes its time) I have turned the tables and tried to find a way to speak for myself and broach these topics without eliciting a harsh response. Often I'm using humor, hyperbole, self-deprecation ("Shhh, I'm watching this video on how to summon aliens" or "I bought this crystal because it's going to solve all my problems.") It's like a tapestry I'm weaving verbally that's a portrait of myself as someone who is actually really boldly dissimilar from him when it comes to spirituality, but relatable enough and hopefully charming enough that he doesn't just throw the "tapestry" out. And then I'm trying to show him it's okay for him to loosen up and have a reaction to these ideas that ISN'T just absolute rejection.

Well I overtalked that but it's definitely a major theme in my life, how communication succeeds and fails in my marriage.

Might erase later

"No, not in my book.The Node is defined as the point when the Moon crosses the ecliptic, so has a latitude of zero, and therefore the Node must be conjunct the Moon at that point, this is only true for the true Node."

Good to know! I thought you did think mean node has some value though? Steven Forrest was kind of evangelical about it (speaking of mid-Cap).

"My Jupiter is also quintile his Moon-MC, so maybe that strenghtens that aspect."

How happy.

"so my draconic chartruler is Neptune in Pisces, Draco Neptune antiscia is on 00 Aries,"

That's one potent cloud!

"Yeah, I thought so too, but however maybe it is not about the amount of connection, but what is there, points to some very specific "focal point" or aspect of the connection, but no clue really."

Yes, maybe it's just a worthless idea, but before I move away from it, I did want to mention one synastry....

I mentioned a guy in my OP but erased it because I made an error. His draco sun's antiscion are not on my natal nodes. It's his Pluto's antiscion exact on my nodes. He and I clicked so well it was eerie, though after all was said and done I considered him a con artist and there is no emotional residue left for him....less than anyone else I ever dated, actually. No good will, ill will, nothing. I just remember the initial euphoria.

Looking at his antiscion, it lines up with my tropical natal chart phenomenally well. (Cap sun, Pisces moon, Sag Venus, Leo Saturn antiscion; plus his Venus antiscia exactly on my sun and his Jupiter antiscia exactly on mine). There's even more. I like this because it matches just how profound the connection felt at first. I wasn't just an idiot falling for a cad. Well I WAS but I have an excuse or want an excuse. So here I am making an excuse. lol

That's another one I might erase.