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Post by lumina on Oct 13, 2021 10:40:43 GMT
This would have been my birthchart (using Placidus) if I had been born in Hammerfest (and well actually 2 hours later than my original birthtime, but I suppose there were children born that time)  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammerfestpopulation is over 11000 people, that is not too few, really. At least for a place that us middle-earth  astrologers love to ignore its existence. Yes, Placidus has always worked for me, pretty fine. But has it worked, because it worked or because I`ve just gotten sooo used to think of me that way? Honestly speaking I totally can see myself having a 3rd house Moon and a 4th house Jupiter as well (as per equal system; I know there is a trend towards the whole house system,w hich I personally dismiss. Because the ASC is an astronomical reality as is the Midheaven, they are cardinal points, just the quesion is do they really have to be in the same housesystem together? I favour the ASC-system, but that is a personal preference, also importantly the 10th house cusp or the point 90 degree of our ASC is super important, even astrologers mention that now and again, even those completely sold on a housesystem like Placidus, Campanus, Koch etc.) Anyway so I know that those systems (which have ASC as cusp of 1st house AND MC as cusp of 10th house) are breaking down, they are plainly astronomically wrong, at least they are not global (and for a system like astrology that claims to be globally applicable that is a No-Go really). And still I keep on working with Placidus. So what is the conclusion? I am a hypocrite (and taking refugee in the softness of the cushions of "But it`s always worked so neatly, and I am used to it, and all the others are doing it, too.) So I am a hypocrite born out of wanting to stick to my comfortzone. Just today`s ramblings. open.spotify.com/episode/2EmJc0cThRw8DzDOdKJFMbThis link is to a lecture David Bolton gives on housesystems, he didn`t say anything new to me, I`ve been through these thoughts before, many many years before actually, but oh boy, it is soooooooo nice in the comfortzone. |
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Post by Ava on Oct 13, 2021 15:03:18 GMT
I thought this said "Polar Bath" when I first glanced at it.
"So I am a hypocrite born out of wanting to stick to my comfortzone."
See, this is the problem with being overly smart! Stop thinking so much and you won't have to call yourself names.
Edit: I don't feel like listening to this podcast in its entirety.
My question is, does he consider the possibility that people born in the polar regions ARE different themselves? Their lives are different. Day IS night.
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Post by Ava on Oct 13, 2021 15:21:13 GMT
My rectified Placidus chart angles match my life, and I don't really care about house cusps. Apart from the 8th house moon, which I think is key to understanding my life, I don't even especially care which houses the planets are located in. I'm just not much of a "house" person. If you're leaning towards another system lumina, which one is it, and do the angles change? |
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Post by lumina on Oct 13, 2021 15:29:47 GMT
I the possibility that people born in the polar regions ARE different themselves? Their lives are different. Day IS night. If that were true to the extent that it affects the validity of astrology, we would need an own kind of astrology for every culture, something different for the desert region, the middle, the north etc. Personally this does not align for me with my understanding of astrology as a global system. But of course there are different opinions. Actually there might be some branches of astrology which are truely taking this in account and switching the zodiac in the Southern Hemisphere. Actually I am not really invested in this, I just think it`s good to be aware of the inconsistencies we embrace (to me these are inconsistencies, at least). It`s just a choice we make I think, but many people aren`t aware that this really is a choice. |
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Post by lumina on Oct 13, 2021 15:36:41 GMT
My rectified Placidus chart angles match my life, and I don't really care about house cusps. Apart from the 8th house moon, which I think is key to understanding my life, I don't even especially care which houses the planets are located in. I'm just not much of a "house" person. If you're leaning towards another system lumina , which one is it, and do the angles change? No, no, no, the angles are ALWAYS consistent they stay the same, ASC, DESC, IC, MC , they are also astronomical realities (He explains how, but i am too lazy to repeat. lol) the intermediate housecups however are not. And I am leaning more and more towards treating the angles as very important sensitive points, or "hooks" or even "portals", but not getting too fixated on the houses per se. I am using Placidus, usually. But if I were really true to my personal understanding of the astroLOGICAL system, I actually should use the equal system, starting with ASC as the first house cusp and having a floating MC. Like Bolton states I, too, have noticed that the point 90° off the actual ASC (which is apparently the point closest to our birthplace, which I did not know before listening ot that podcast and have not quite totally grasped mentally) is VERY important. It`s not a cardinal angle per se of course, but those 7 Virgo (and Pisces) have proved themselves to me over and over and over again. Personally I think my understanding or use of astrology moves away from houses and rulerships, but puts more emphasis on geometry, aspects and the cardinal angles (and there I would use the rulerships too, just like I do, subtly, almost subconsciously, for the planets). |
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Post by Ava on Oct 13, 2021 16:01:04 GMT
No, no, no, the angles are ALWAYS consistent they stay the same, ASC, DESC, IC, MC , they are also astronomical realities (He explains how, but i am too lazy to repeat. lol) the intermediate housecups however are not. But if I were really true to my personal understanding of the astroLOGICAL system, I actually should use the equal system, starting with ASC as the first house cusp and having a floating MC. What's a floating MC? Like Bolton states I, too, have noticed that the point 90° off the actual ASC (which is apparently the point closest to our birthplace, which I did not know before listening ot that podcast and have not quite totally grasped mentally) is VERY important. It`s not a cardinal angle per se of course, but those 7 Virgo (and Pisces) have proved themselves to me over and over and over again. That's interesting. I can't test this on myself because I have Uranus squaring the ASC, so obviously that's important. Personally I think my understanding or use of astrology moves away from houses and rulerships, but puts more emphasis on geometry, aspects and the cardinal angles (and there I would use the rulerships too, just like I do, subtly, almost subconsciously, for the planets). Yeah, I don't know. I like when things line up. For me, it makes sense if Jupiter rules my 5th house, because I have many children. Also transiting Jupiter was on my MC when I had my first child, a Sag. But if my 5H cusp is in late Scorpio, it could be conjunct my daughter's sun, so that fits, too. Furthermore, in that case Pluto would rule my 5th, and her draconic Pluto is conjunct my Pluto. The flexibility of everything seems to be a weak spot where astrology gets attacked. And I myself prefer to focus on transits and other mathematical realities...the less-disputable barebones. |
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Post by lumina on Oct 13, 2021 16:42:30 GMT
AvaIn an equal housesystem, putting ASC on the cusp of the 1st house, the MC will not be at the cusp of the 10th house (at least in most cases), but fall somewhere around it, in 10th, 9th or 11th house, if born at extreme latitudes even in 8th house or so. (this actually has interpretative value as well) "For me, it makes sense if Jupiter rules my 5th house, because I have many children. Also transiting Jupiter was on my MC when I had my first child, a Sag."4 Jupiter would still be ruling your 5th house in the equal housesystem. In my case there would be more of a difference, as per Placidus Venus rules my 5th house cusp, and is in Capricorn, square Pluto. In the equal system it would be Mars in Sag in 12th house conjunct Neptune. I think depending on the perspective I could see both applicable. "he flexibility of everything seems to be a weak spot where astrology gets attacked. And I myself prefer to focus on transits and other mathematical realities...the less-disputable barebones." Totally agree with you.
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Post by Ava on Oct 13, 2021 18:05:16 GMT
Jupiter would still be ruling your 5th house in the equal housesystem. Yes yes. I was just remarking on house system changes in general. In Campanus, my 5H cusp is 27 Scorpio conjunct my daughter's sun @ 28 Scorpio. "In my case there would be more of a difference, as per Placidus Venus rules my 5th house cusp, and is in Capricorn, square Pluto. In the equal system it would be Mars in Sag in 12th house conjunct Neptune. I think depending on the perspective I could see both applicable." I can see that, too. In equal house my Venus is in the 4th versus the 5th. I like it in the 5th. I wanted cute children, I was consciously ambitious about it, I set it as an intention and life goal. So...my blonde daughter wants to dye her hair and I'm like, "No way. Do you know the trouble I went through to make sure I had a blonde daughter!? Genetic selection was no joke to me!" LOL |
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Post by lumina on Oct 13, 2021 18:45:11 GMT
Ava haha, yes I understand.  However, I do wonder sometimes if we might not get "too stuck" on those very specific details we attribute to one placement or aspect. Like Venus in the 5th has a lot of other manifestations, too, which possibly also fit though of course. ON the other hand there might be other aspects/ placements describing this manifestation and of course Venus in 4th has a lot to do with the aesthetic of home and family in general. I did not start that thread to start a revolution or change everything that I have done before, but it was just me musing about this and trying to be honest with myself and questioning some of the tradited beliefs I carry. I will get out of that soon I suppose, and truth be told I`ve always fluctuated between equal and Placidus house system. Actually I do think that Pluto in the 11th house makes a lot of sense for me, maybe even more than Pluto in 10th, but this is of course just as subjective as it would defending Pluto in 10th. Could probably find "proof" for both, which then again makes me questioning what proof really is. Rabbithole-alarm!
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Post by geminiblues on Oct 16, 2021 7:50:02 GMT
I haven't read through the entire thread yet, but do have a question. How can the 10th house be "below horizon" and the 4th "above horizon"?
And also a thought experiment...
Imagine you are born on a place on the surface of the earth where one or more of the panets doesn't appear in the sky for an entire month or 3. How does that affect the influence of that planet on your chart? Is italy as if that planet is hidden, like when mars disappears behind the sun? What if it is actually the sun?
The most extreme example would be someone born at one of the poles on one of the solstices. Planets would either be above the horizon for most of the day or below for most of the day. The ascendant is the Eastern horizon, but where is east at the north pole? Every direction is south. The MC would be North (directly overhead) and therefore the IC straight through the planet to the south pole. But the horizon would need to be based on the midpoint of the sun on its "rising" to the highest point. Call that "east" and go from there.
On the summer solstice at the north pole, would the MC be in Cancer for the entire day? Or maybe a small range like late Tau to early Leo?
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astrologers love to ignore its existence. 
