4th harmonic links b/n tropical + draconic composite

[Ava]

Technical title for a very simple topic. 

The question is, if we compare the tropical and draconic versions of the same composite chart, and locate the 4th harmonic aspects between the two (ie, conjunction, opposition, square), what will we find, and what do these aspects mean, if anything?

Theoretically and roughly speaking....because they are both midpoint charts, a conjunction between the two could show where our physical (tropical) and metaphysical (draconic) selves all converge...all four. Here is where we bring everything to the table.

Paging lumina 

Here's that thread I said I was going to make. What do you think?  

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My marriage:

* Draco comp Neptune @ 3 Aries is conjunct tropical comp MC @ 4 Aries, opp 4 Libra Saturn 

* Draco comp Jupiter @ 19 Scorpio conjunct tropical comp NN-Mercury-Neptune @ 17-21 Scorpio

* Draco IC-Saturn @ 16 Aqua square tropical comp NN @ 17 Scorpio

Some thoughts:

We got together with a kind of "manifest destiny" attitude, and I think draco comp Jupiter on the comp NN stellium is an apt illustration of that original grand vision. Draco comp Neptune on the MC matches the mystery of it, the unknown variables and details that nobody could foresee, because we didn't know each other that well. This is Aries and we were impulsive. 

Saturn square Jupiter is a feature of both composite charts (of course) but it's interesting to see how this energy is one of the main standouts in the draconic composite, because it hits the tropical nodes so tightly. 

We are definitely a study of extremes in expansion and contraction, it's evident in our spending habits at times, but in many areas of life, including communication (draco comp Jupiter on comp Mercury): sometimes we're silent for extended periods and sometimes we talk all night, especially in the wee hours of the morning (like around the Witching Hour...this is Scorpio after all).

Pls don't quote

[lumina]

Ava

very cool thread!

I don´t have much time, as I have a date in 23 minutes. (Just kidding of course. lol)

But with composites and in particular Draco composites there is something doubly intriguing to me. Well composites always use the near midpoint to calculate the positions, however the opposing end is the far midpoint between two planets. That is point 1.

Point 2 which might even be more intriguing is that with the nodes we deal with an axis, too, so oppositions from DRaco to tropical could possibly be seen as having a stronger relation to the South Node (as in a Southnode Draco chart they would come up as conjunctions), possibly this might mean there is a slight difference in interpreting opposition than we normally do, or maybe not. There could actually be a sense of familiarity coming with it, if we take the connection to the SN serious. But maybe that is hairsplitting,I don`t know just felt like pointing it out. lol


Your interpretation sounds very sound,a nd zhtose are some very strong close links, except for the first one, interestingly those signs come up between P and me as well. I might be emost fascinated with your links to the tropical composite nodal axis, I definitely think that must be an extra powerful alignment if it shows up. I mean after all it is a NODAL horoscope.

That Draco cmpos Jupiter on the comp NN-Mercury-Neptune, it looks to me like pumping it up with soo much meaning, grandiosity really, ina deep way, after all it is Scorpio, and maybe sometimes the responsibility coming with having a family and posessions are clashing with that. like you cannot roam as a couple as freely as you might want to perhaps, cannot be as idealistic as you feel drawn to, because of the real life responsibilities. However it is the DRaco comp Jupiter conjunct the tropical NN (and Mercury-Neptune) so I think ulitmately that is what you need to develope or remember again and again to find meaning in this relationship. yes you need to address some more grounded Saturnian things, maybe even in a more or less detached unemotional way, but the direction and purpose of it all is really to develop those grander than life dreams, ideals, thoughts, goals, though possibly sometimes you get each other without words, and at other times you might feel like living totally separated mentally from each other.

BTW do you also notice that while you might frustrate each other sometimes with the spoken words, somehow you are very tuned into each others nonverbal communication? Or maybe is that my imagination? (just asking cause P and me have the same MErcury-Neptune-conjunction, albeit in Sag, and it is a core theme between us. DW synastric conjunction; one of them falling onto my NN, the other falling onto my Sun and his Moon-MC; Mercury dispositing his Mars-Jupiter, Neptune dispositing my Jupiter and conjunct my Mars and so on)

[lumina]

just listing those that I noticed, and then go and think about what they might mean. maybe I am going to dream about them. 


Dr Psyche on 3 Leo conjunct DESC on 1 Leo

Dr Ceres on 2 Virgo opposite Vesta on 2 Pisces (on his nodal axis; True NOde 1 Virgo, mean Node 2 Virgo)

Dr Eros conjunct Mars on 23 Libra
Dr Eros conjunct NN on 23 - 20 Libra
Dr Eros square Moon on 23 Libra - 22 Cap

Dr IC on 25 Libra conjunct Mars on 23 Libra (and widely conj. NN on 20 Libra)

Dr Saturn conjunct ASC on 1 Aqua exact (squaring Chiron on 29 Aries and Atropos on 00 Taurus)


Dr Vesta on 11 Aqua square Uranus on 12 Scorpio (currently emphasized in the progressed composite and well for years to come actually)

Dr Pluto on 24 Pisces conjunct Ceres on 23 Pisces
Dr Pluto on 24 Pisces square Sun on 26 Sag


Dr Uranus on 21 Aries conjunct SN on 20 Aries
Dr Uranus on 21 Aries opposite Mars on 23 Libra
Dr Uranus on 21 Aries square Moon on 22 Cap

Dr Juno on 1 Taurus conjunct Chiron on 29 Aries and Atropos on 00 Taurus (I am just mentioning this cause I am fascinated with our Chiron-atropos-conjunction, though I do not understand it at all. lol)

Dr Juno on 1 Taurus square ASC on 1 Aqua


Dr Jupiter on 19 Taurus conjunct IC on 16 Taurus
Dr Jupiter on 19 Taurus conjunct Jun oon 22 Taurus widely (but it is on the midpoint between Juno and IC)
Dr Jupiter on 19 Taurus square SAturn on 21 Leo

Dr Neptune on 24 Taurus conjunct Juno on 22 Taurus
Dr Neptune square SAturn on 21 Leo

(Dr Mercury on 26 Taurus)

Dr Sun on 5 Gemini - Jupiter on 10 Gemini
it is a bit wide of an orb for me, but who knows? I mean Jupiter disposits our composite Sun, there is a mutual reception between Mercury in Sag and Jupiter in Gemini, and Jupiter disposits all those Sag planets (Sun, Mercury, Neptune)


Dr Venus on 25 Gemini opposing Sun on 26 Sag

Dr Moon on 2 Cancer, too wide for an opposition to Sun on 26 Sag, but it is on its antiscion/ solstice point


I also checked where the Draco planets fell into the tropical composite 

Dr Sun in 4th house 
Dr Moon in 6th house
Dr Mercury in 4th house
Dr Venus in 5th house
Dr Mars in 2nd house
Dr Jupiter in 4th house
Dr Saturn in 1st house (well technically in 12th house, but with 16 minutes orb to the ASC I definitely consider it on the ASC   )
Dr Uranus in 3rd house
Dr Neptune in 4th house
Dr Pluto in 2nd house
Dr Ceres in 7th house
Dr Juno on 3rd house
Dr Vesta in 1st house

[Ava]

lumina ,

You never joke about dates. Is it the Italian?

Re: Mercury-Neptune in Sag, w/ you and P, does the draco comp have any 4th harmonic aspects to it?

My ex and I also have Mercury conjunct Neptune in Sag.

"BTW do you also notice that while you might frustrate each other sometimes with the spoken words, somehow you are very tuned into each others nonverbal communication?"

Yes. Well there is a lot of curiosity, like "Is this real or my imagination?" In both relationships where I've had Mercury conjunct Neptune in composite, there's been a crisis of needing to know, on both sides. It's not like 100% non-stop surveillance; on the contrary it feels like distance is fine or irrelevant. But with certain incidents or circumstances, details were elusive, but still palpable in the ether or something...so the mind can get snagged on wanting to know what the other person thinks.

Thanks for adding the technical details, good to remember that about the draconic chart, it's the NN chart, but a SN version would be just as valid.

Edit: I was making dinner and typing and just saw you posted some details. Be back later.

Pls don't quote

[Ava]

lumina

Forgot to thank you for your thoughts on dr Jupiter conjunct tropical NN-Mercury-NN.

Oddly your dr Jupiter w/ P exactly opposes mine with my husband, and in both charts, Jupiter squares Saturn. Altogether it's Jupiter opp Jupiter square Saturn opp Saturn in the draco composites. Only you have Jupiter on the IC and we have Saturn on the IC.

Thanks for the house overlays, I think they're interesting.

You two have so many of these inter-aspects between composite charts...well maybe that helps account for the longevity. Then to see a lot of draco comp planets falling in your comp 4th house, that seems homey. He's so Cancerian in draco, too.

Your 20-ish Aries/Libra nodal axis is loaded; I wonder what will happen when tr NN hits Aries in a few years.

"Dr Venus on 25 Gemini opposing Sun on 26 Sag"

So in a south node chart, that would be a conjunction

"Dr Neptune on 24 Taurus conjunct Juno on 22 Taurus"

I like this and maybe it's no wonder I dream of you two, with my draco sun there @ 25 Taurus.

"Dr Pluto on 24 Pisces square Sun on 26 Sag"

So intense. Dr comp Pluto on his ASC and your draco ASC, too. Trine his draco new moon-MC.

Overall it kinda seems that the draconic composite is more of a lure for his draco natal (earth/water emphasis) while the regular composite matches your natal better (air/fire emphasis).

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Not sure I remember my college boyfriend's birthtime right, I know it's around 6:30 pm, and with that, the comp MC @ 5 Aquarius is conjunct draco comp Venus-Pluto, all this on my tropical DSC and Mercury, and we sure did seem like a Venus-Pluto couple. Liking each other didn't seem to have a lot to do with it, like after we broke up we'd bump into each other in the oddest places, or he'd bump into my friends. He would yell about how it was fate and I had to concede it was weird, at the very least.

Again pls don't quote, me and my anecdotes, I'm half-reluctant to publish these things.