dealbreakers in synastry/composite

[enneline]

Dear All:


have you made experiences/observations over the years that lead you to the conclusion that some (missing) configurations simply do not work?

I admit, there are rare patterns, i would call "dealbreakers" since natal charts are soooo different and need and like different things.

Over the years, i have found out that the following like never works out: 

1. missing yin/yang connections like sun/moon, sun/venus, moon/mars, venus/mars, etc. I have seen synastries without major venus/mars and sun/moon; however, if so, there were minor connections and other yin/yang connections like moon/mars. But a synastry without any yin/yang? No, does not work. They would probably not even start dating

2. unaspected planets that are chart rulers: i have seen people being deeply in love despite their venusses not being aspected, for example. However, i have never seen it working if venus was the chart ruler or ruler of the descendant. This isn't working in my experience, esp if venus is the ruler of the desc.

3. almost no trines & sextiles but tons of oppositions, squares and conjunctions: i admit that opp., conj. & squares can create a ton of attraction. But i have never seen it working out long-term if there is no significant amount of "easy" aspects. In my experience such a couple would feel much passion, they might even date for ages but they would never be totally happy. Probably it's even an on-off relationship. Often i find these couples fighting for their relationship for years but then they finally break up because the synastry literally doesn't speak harmony


so, what are your observations? 

[lumina]

enneline

cool topic!

Well but I find it difficult, as I do not know if there really are any general dealbreakers. I mean what could be totally cool with me, could be a dealbreaker for you.

But my thoughts are really, too few connections between personal planets: these people don`t really connect, but then again this does not have to be a dealbreaker, for some people it might be okay, to live side by side with someone they do not "interlock" too tightly. Have someone so you are not alone and occasionally can have sex with or agree on how to bring up kids, I guess this might be enough for some poeple, and this does not need too many personal connections. Usually when these start dating there will be significant progressed aspects though.

But basically that would be something that makes me pay attention, look up, listen up, and I would hear a warning voice from inside: Something is not quite right here.
Also these relationshps might fizzle out when someone "better" comes along. A better match for the timeframe and mental- emotional condition people are in (you are not always in the right condition to relate intensely to another person though).


Another thing that would make me pay attention, are too many quinkunxes between personal planets. tight quinkxunes. People with that have to deal with each other somehow, even though they can`t even really grasp each other, see each other, there will always be some empty space there, something they can`t understand about the other person, but will have to find to an agreement how to deal with it (if the quinkunxes are tight). I find that esp quinkunxes to Sun are challenging, as well as Mercury quinkunx Mercury. That is maybe the most prominent: I have no clue what you are even talking about - aspect I have ever come across. (but it depends, sometimes the underlying signs and signruler will connect to each other, that gives an escape route)

No aspects (in particular no personal planets aspecting) Sun NOR Moon. Often we can deal with the fact if one of those is unaspected, but both? It`s like never really getting to know the other person.

Usually I find Moons in elemental harmony; at least 7 or 8 out of 10 times. Of course there ARE sometimes incompatible Moon-elements, but in these cases it seems there are usually strong interaspects to the Moons. For example my brother and his wife have Moon in Sag and Moon in Virgo. However, her Virgo Moon opposes her Pisces-Sun, and this fullmoon falls right onto his DESC-ASC-axis. His Moon conjuncts her SN.


I agree about the yin/Yang connections; I also have seen some unaspected or scarcely aspected Venus-positions, esp. to the male Venus, and yet people were having a loving relationship to each other.

I also look out for ASC and DESC-rulers in particular. But it seems that one or two significant aspects are enough to make people bond. Esp. those rulers to the other person`s angles, Sun or Moon, or the angle rulers.

as for the tension aspects vs harmonious aspects, well I generally agree. But it seems it depends a lot on how much tension people can work with natally and individually. Also for example in my case I can say, no relationship or even friendship would work or even come into being with only sextiles/ trines, Id be either not even registering the other person, or would be bored out of my mind.

HOwever I think there should be a balance.

BTW the longest standing relationships I have seen had actually a fairly high stress-aspect-level, but id depends on the planets of course. Sun square Sun seems to not be that much of a problem. HOwever Neptune square or opposition anything really, seems to be quite detrimental over time, not at first, it will enhance the romance and magic factor, but if it is too dominant in a synastry, then it seems the dissolution is bound to happen and will leave people severely disappointed and disillusioned.

But this also depends on the people involved. Some people might fare better with never seeing the relationship or the other person toooo clearly. What I have never really seen as being problematic is Jupiter squares or oppositions to personal planets. Well except the excesses of course. lol But hey I am a Sag. I am biased. lol

[lumina]

To unclutter my chattering above, what I consider very challenging in a synastry: 

1) Truely incompatible Moons:

Usually Moons are in compatible elements. 

if not they are being strongly aspected by Sun, the ruler of the Moon, the chartruler; a Saturn-trine or sextile also goes a long way to fill up the "safety deposit", which the Moon represents. If Moons are truely incompatible, it makes living together a true challenge. They are about emotional safety of course, but also about the instinctual daily habits. A Moon in Aries will have very different needs and habits than a Moon in Taurus for example. Well you can come to an agreement of course, but it will take work and negotiation (and that is not really what the Moon wants to do), and it is doubtful you can ever feel emotionally totally relaxed and comfortable and getting the feeling that you are "alright" the way you are. 
Of course there are ways around this, have a long distance relationship for example. Have seperate rooms. Split your duties. Don`t see each other too often. Spend long hours away from each other working or travelling. 

For some Moon signs that might be a good solution and coming close to their natural preference anyway (thinking of a Moon in Sag for example)
For most people however good relationships should offer a safe haven, a home, a place where they can be themselves though. 

Anyway, if asessing the Moon-compatibility, make sure you check the ruler of the Moon. 
My Aqua Moon is classically ruled by Saturn (I am keeping an eye on URanus as well, but the classical rulers work for daily life very well), and this Saturn is in Cancer, in fall or detriment, and in 8th house, and oh the joy, exactly quinkunx Moon. 

I am having a hard time feeling emotionally comfortable in any place and time, it is really not a very secure Moon, however my SAturn has a lot to say about my level of comfort, and it cannot be ignored if asessing my safety needs (also of course using traditional rulers, thre is a mutual reception. the other mutual reception I have, but with new rulers, is Jupiter and Neptune. Luckily Saturn and Jupiter are trine each other, and Jupiter is exalted in Cancer, so actually it can help out my poor Saturn, Saturn listens a great deal to Jupiter in my chart, so resolving my personal Moon-issues, looking to Jupiter in PIsces in 3rd house is a good start. Well I disgress, but just meaning Moon-rulers are important. lol)


2) Tight (under 2 degrees) quinkunxes between personal planets
Quinkunxes just do not have common ground, and if there is an aspect they are forced to deal with each other, and possibly thinking they might find some common ground, but there isn`t any. It is best to agree to disagree and treat the differences with humour, but there still will be some area that lacks connection. 


3) too few personal planetary connections 
You just don`t really connect on a personal level. 

Also if there are very many karmic or developmental aspects (from Saturn,Chiron, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto to the personal planets), especially the challenging ones, and little personal planetary connections compared to these, then the pull can be compelling, but ultimately a relationship might be too much, too exhausting, and not really held together by a personal compatibility or connectedness. But the passion can be overwhelming esp. with Pluto of course. 



4) mix of challenging and harmonious aspects

Different needs for different people, depending on the natal charts. People with a more active dynamic chart would be bored with a too trine-sextile based relationship, though they of course need some trines sextiles to relieve the pressure of the dynamic ones. 


5) composite planets do not overlay significant natal planets

There is the stuff where the unrequited loves are being weaved (among other things). esp. if one person`s natal chart is heavily triggered, while the other is not. you can have a wonderful composite, but if it really does not trigger your natal attraction planets, you won`t really care. 

It is like having a wonderfully wrapped up gift, but you don`t really care to unwrap it. 

[anela]

I find this interesting, because I don't have much experience, but my limited experience involves things like Moon-Mars, Sun-Mars, Mars-Mars (all positive aspects). I think I keep feeling pulled towards men who have Earth rather prominent, because that's my third, seventh, and eleventh house element. Not entirely compatible with me, so they have to have some air and/or fire. Also composite planets landing on natal planets (like Venus on my Sun, and Mars on the Taurus' Sun/Moon, which kind of balances out my masculine Sun versus his feminine one).

[enneline]

sorry for coming back soooo late to this thread....

lumina - wow, thank you sooo much for your input- you're an astro genius thank you, i have always learned so much from you

Will comment further later....

[geminiblues]

Just trying to figure out just how many of these I violated with my ex wife...

Does moon opposite Saturn dw count as ying yang?

[lumina]

geminiblues

Moon and Saturn are a pairing, albeit one that we often not think about first. Mommy and Daddy. The innermost personal planet and the outermost personal planet, the confines of our day to day existence (after Saturn we cross in unchartered territory, psychologically).
They even mirror each other in what time they take for a complete cycle around the sun (approximately 29 days/ 29 years). So yes, but obviously they come with certain challenges, too. Well all Yin Yang pairings actually do.

Personally I would think Moon opposite Saturn is very challenging, but then again, it depends so much on the people involved. my best friend and me have a DW of Moon-Saturn square and opposition, and I am pretty sure it is one reason that kept us remaining friends for over 25 years now, through the good and the bad times. Actually some other friends (which came in and out of our respective lives) remarking on how it made so little sense that we were friends, because we are so different (we really aren`t. But people usually do not look beyond the surface look) and how we can STILL be friends. It seems to boggle people`s mind a lot, and honestly, in the first years I used to tell her all the time, that she shouldn`t get used to me, I might not be around forever and might not be completely "there" (my Saturn squares her Moon exactly, the opposition of her Saturn to my Moon is wider). She was sure from the beginning we would be in each other`s life for, well, life actually. Turns out she was right (and turns out I was right a little bit, as I tend to take my "time-outs" or have that stop-and-go-kind of communicating, alternating between being really communicative and then not at all, so in short I really suck at communication. This seems to be true with friends when I am the Saturn person in a challenging aspect to their luminary or Mercury. Even though I like them and think about them a lot really, I tend to be the one to cut the communication short, and sometimes downright feel like calling them is an obligation and "too much", though I generally like talking to them in person. Sometimes I wonder if P feels the same about me. lol his Saturn squares my Mercury and Sun after all. I always feel he prefers to talk to me in person. but I disgress).

Anyway for our friendship the MOon-SAturn was actually a blessing, albeit a strict teacher as well.

She also shares her Saturn opposing her husbands MOon (her husband and me have a Moon-Moon-conjunction), and they have been together for 20 years now, with 5 kids and they are pretty good together. But he is a Cap with Cap ASC,s o that fits for him.

I am sure Ava would also point out, yeah all good and well with the Saturns, but don`t understimate the fact that her Draco Sun is conjunct her husband`s tropical Moon (and mine as well). And her husband`s Draco Venus is conjunct her tropical Moon (and my Draco Sun is conjunct her tropical Moon).


That is just the thing, isn`t it? There is never just ONE aspect, there is a complex tapestry, so it is really difficult to speak about "deal breakers".

I do think Moon-Saturn challenging synastry CAN actually be a dealbreaker for some couples and the glue for others. In the case of my best friend and me we are both sort of Saturnian in terms of our Moons (I have a quinkunx between Moon and SAturn, not pleasant, but it`s there), she has a trine. Her husband has that whole Cappy vibe going on (Sun conjunct ASC in Cappy) and a mutual recpetion bewteen Sun and Saturn, so that fits them.

Or it is something ompletely different that pulled them together and keeps them together.

[geminiblues]

Thanks for the reply. I'm going to need to reread it at time where I can be more contemplate to absorb it.

The Saturn Moon DW are part of larger geometry in that they are involved in or complete grand squares in synastry. She has a moon Venus chiron T that overlays my Uranus Saturn mercury T my Saturn on her charon and another where her Saturn neptune square overlays my neptune jupiter moon T... Oh, and sun inconjunct sun exact...

I've thought for a while about posting both our charts and letting folks use them as sort of a case study, if anyone would be interested. I do have her permission as well.

[Ava]

Hi geminiblues,

Yes, that sounds interesting, your charts as a case study. Maybe we can figure out why the relationship couldn't keep going continuously.

[Ava]

Time stamps pinned in first comment.

A few of these might show trouble, in her opinion:

- Comp sun in 8th or 12th house
- Comp Pluto in hard aspect to personal planets/angles
- Comp sun or moon not making any major aspects OR only making difficult aspects
- Comp Neptune in hard aspect to personal planets, esp sun, moon, or Mars, and the ASC/DSC
- Comp Saturn in hard aspect to Mars (square/opposition)
- Inconjunctions between Jupiter and/or Uranus and the sun or moon
- If these composites are repeated in natal or synastry, that can be an "invasive" theme and leading issue
- Comp Nextile, too many easy aspects...can cause a veil over other malefic themes (Mars, Saturn, Pluto) -- not seeing issues clearly, too involved in escaping into romance, glossing over the practicalities

[geminiblues]

Ok, I'll put it together. I don't know if I'm able to post the images here, I'll give it a try when I have a few moments.

It's the start of Scorpio season, and that means as things drift across my Asc, everything gets kind of crazy in both good and bad ways. I have two family birthdays to attend to this coming week, my daughter being one of them.

As an aside, I observed this effect on my life before I studied astrology and learned I was a Scorpio rising. It's one of the things that opened me up to giving some credibility to it.

[anasage]

Oct 24, 2020 2:57:13 GMT Ava said:

Time stamps pinned in first comment.

A few of these might show trouble, in her opinion:

- Comp sun in 8th or 12th house
- Comp Pluto in hard aspect to personal planets/angles
- Comp sun or moon not making any major aspects OR only making difficult aspects
- Comp Neptune in hard aspect to personal planets, esp sun, moon, or Mars, and the ASC/DSC
- Comp Saturn in hard aspect to Mars (square/opposition)
- Inconjunctions between Jupiter and/or Uranus and the sun or moon
- If these composites are repeated in natal or synastry, that can be an "invasive" theme and leading issue
- Comp Nextile, too many easy aspects...can cause a veil over other malefic themes (Mars, Saturn, Pluto) -- not seeing issues clearly, too involved in escaping into romance, glossing over the practicalities

Omg. I had a bizarre incident. I thought how did this conversation become so bizarre.

Lol. Moon conjoins venus. Ok. Mars oppose mars sq venus moon conjoin.

Naturally composite mars opposes this.

I guess funny. I had never seen this.

I view harsh aspects to the moon. Venus as deal breakers.
Moons. To me more important than sun..

Neptune squares.
Pluto in harsh aspect to the lights or venus mars. Personal

Once saw an incredible synastry. Neptune oppose sun, though. Composite. Deal breaker.


Great venus mars. Sextile pluto.
All kinds of great aspects.