|
Post by Ava on Apr 15, 2020 20:06:16 GMT
"The school of hard knocks is an accelerated curriculum." - Menander of Athens
Transiting Jupiter and Pluto were exactly conjunct @ 24°53 Cap on April 4th. This transit is still within 1° orb today, still in effect.
I guess we are learning through hardship.
There's lots to say about any aspect, especially the current transit. I will get to that soon if I can find intriguing info.
Today I was thinking about my life, wondering about my Jupiter in Aries and its liabilities (unfinished projects, outspokenness at times) and then I thought of how my Jupiter opposes Pluto. Much of what I want to learn and teach, if I attained mastery of anything (Jupiter issues/education) would be Plutonian issues.
When I was young I wanted to be a surgeon, until I figured out I didn't have the money to pursue that career path (extremes of wealth and poverty also match Jupiter-Pluto).
Anyway, if you have a natal Jupiter-Pluto aspect, do you feel that you have learned a lot through hardship? Everyone's life has its difficulties but Jupiter might magnify Plutonian issues.
Considering Bill Gates with his natal conjunction (@ 27-28 Leo, in the 2nd house)...interesting that his philanthropy (Jupiter) has been centered on matters of life and death (Pluto).
Pls don't quote, might revise
|
|
|
Post by geminiblues on Apr 15, 2020 20:30:38 GMT
I have Jupiter trine Pluto natally. Jupiter 7th, Pluto 11th. Family helps you through hard times is what I think I get from it.
|
|
vg
Junior Member
Posts: 733
|
Post by vg on Apr 15, 2020 20:46:44 GMT
I know someone with their jupiter/sun conjunction squaring pluto(and probably the moon). I dont think they come from a wealthy background but they seem to calculate how successful they are with the amount of money they have. They dont look down on anyone though as far as i can see. They are very ambitious career wise and also very interested in learning which they invest time into it. They have done very well for themselves career wise. I dont know their house placements.
Pls dnt quote
|
|
|
Post by lumina on Apr 15, 2020 22:08:10 GMT
hmm, maybe, but I would never have associated Jupiter/Pluto with hardship, maybe with extremes, compulsion, etc. Pluto intensifies, Jupiter enlargens. there might be a risk of Pluto making Jupiter`s beliefs and ideals some sort of principle and trying to push it on others as well. There is a power to ones beliefs, that could be good and persuasive, or getting out of hand. (also Jupiter/Pluto is often referred to as the big success-midpoint). Actually I think success or failure, with this involved it will be really big, no matter what it will bring, does not necessarily have to be about money, though it could, seems that many rich men have Jupiter/Pluto esp the midpoint aligned with something. But there is the thought of power of course, beliefs etc. Unfortunately extremism could be an aspect of this as well (in a negative manifestaion).
Hardship I would more associate with Saturn/Pluto, possibly both of them being so close together just emphasize each other, making everything bigger and blowing things out of proportion.
well I have Sun conjunct Jupiter/Pluto and even more closely Mercury conjunct Jupiter/Pluto (and Jupiter is inconjunct Pluto). No hardship there. Though no riches either. Neither famous (well Jupiter/Uranus is probably more about fame or even something with Neptune) nor super successful nor powerful. So I should be a billionaire or president with that I guess. LOL
Nah not everyone having this will become that (especially since I am sceptical of one person striving for and attaining too much power. Power corrupts. at least most of the time). However people have mentioned that I can be rather persuasive (though I do not necessarily feel like that. lol) and I have been asked if as a teacher I have had a special training for motivating others. No, that is just my personal way of being, and there is quite a bit of Jupiter/Pluto in this as well, esp. conjunct Mercury.
|
|
|
Post by lumina on Apr 15, 2020 22:13:41 GMT
though I do agree with the initial statement. People usually do learn the most through hardship. I don`t think it is necessarily a Jupiter/Pluto-thing though. Maybe it depends on the aspects and the overall chart. I mean my Jupiter/PLuto-mp on my Sun and Mercury is not having any nastry or even difficult aspects. the Jupiter-Pluto-quinkunx is sometimes a bit fluctuating of course, but even that one is having harmonious aspects to SAturn (trine Jupiter) and Neptune (sextile Pluto).
So I could imagine with a square or opposition it might be a different experience?
|
|
|
Post by lumina on Apr 15, 2020 22:16:15 GMT
Also april 4th and the following days were great, it seemed like everything seemed to improve from then, at least for the week after that, of course I have no clue if it will continue to be good.
|
|
|
Post by Ava on Apr 16, 2020 4:17:59 GMT
Also april 4th and the following days were great, it seemed like everything seemed to improve from then, at least for the week after that, of course I have no clue if it will continue to be good. From what I hear Germany is recovering much faster than the States...I thought we were just starting to get into the thick of it, with revelations about what's coming next. Thank you all for your replies, be back later.
|
|
|
Post by lumina on Apr 16, 2020 8:40:16 GMT
We are cautiously hopeful. However I am sceptical if it is a good idea to start school from Monday again. Just for a group of pupils. I understand our minister wants to push through the final exams. I see this as problematic though. Pretty sure there will be a lot of lawsuits flowing, if the result is not as wished for by parents and pupils. It rarely is, but this year they have a strong case obviously.
I also do not see how the hygienic measures can be fulfilled if even in normal school days this is lacking.
Also 15 and 17 years old pupils if meeting friends again after 5 weeks? What are they going to do? Pretty positive most of them will hug each other as first thing and so on.
In short I fear we will see a second wave. I hope I am wrong.
Anyway we have seen improvement recently so that is a good thing.
BTW I was talking more about my personal situation, not the crisis.
|
|
|
Post by 12YearsABlob on Apr 16, 2020 12:44:52 GMT
Also 15 and 17 years old pupils if meeting friends again after 5 weeks? What are they going to do? Pretty positive most of them will hug each other as first thing and so on. Oh yeah, for sure!
By next Monday, do you mean the 20th? That seems a bit hasty, even for a quickly recovering nation. Has it been announced yet or is there some wiggle room? I've heard our lock-down here in the US might extend beyond the end of April (which sounds reasonable because we're not slowing down yet).
|
|
|
Post by 12YearsABlob on Apr 16, 2020 13:08:52 GMT
Actually I think success or failure, with this involved it will be really big, no matter what it will bring, does not necessarily have to be about money, though it could, seems that many rich men have Jupiter/Pluto esp the midpoint aligned with something. But there is the thought of power of course, beliefs etc. Unfortunately extremism could be an aspect of this as well (in a negative manifestaion). Hardship I would more associate with Saturn/Pluto, possibly both of them being so close together just emphasize each other, making everything bigger and blowing things out of proportion. Right, that's how I see Jupiter-Pluto and Saturn-Pluto as well.
I attribute the extremes of success and failure partly to the nature of Jupiter and Pluto, and partly to their positions as generational planets. Pluto on its own, is pretty extreme. Add Jupiter to that and you have a hankering for excess as well as extreme. Jupiter might literally multiply Pluto's desire for control (one person vs many). Like you said, not all those with this configuration will want or pursue power in that way (thank God).
The generational aspect is what amps it up to great success or failure in the public arena, IMO. If you have those big planets in close contact with a personal planet, you're effectively tapping into the collective subconscious in Jupiter-Pluto arenas. Together, they are our value system and what we see as an acceptable use of power (at least as long as they're in the same signs). Naturally, if your personal planets are in cahoots with those two, you'll be supported by the public in your endeavours (to a certain extent). It could be in very subtle ways, not necessarily loud, conscious support. But such a person will appear to have the Midas touch in knowing what is and isn't a fruitful endeavour. At the very least, you won't run afoul of established morals (unless you overplay your hand and misuse the power you have).
Personal planets in hard aspect to Jupiter-Pluto: This could be good for changing established mores; or, on the other hand, undergoing upheavals in one's own value system from time to time. Pluto will fundamentally change *something*, whether it's on the outside or inside. There might be an imbalance of support systems too? In the example above, there is steady conviction behind one's actions. However, in this case, one might alternate between too much conviction and too little?
Even with the good aspects, if someone gets caught up in the power game, it can backfire big time.
|
|
|
Post by Ava on Apr 16, 2020 23:00:35 GMT
Just coming by to drop some links and readings, mentally exhausted at the moment... Jupiter Conjunct Pluto Dates: December 2, 1994 December 11, 2007 April 4, 2020 June 30, 2020 November 12, 2020 February 4, 2033 April 12, 2045 === More articles, more aspects: www.astrohealer.com/jupiter-pluto-aspects/theastrologyplacemembership.com/2014/10/jupiter-conjunct-square-opposite-pluto/This one talks about hardship: seraphicsiren.com/jupiter-opposite-pluto-natal-chart/(My thinking was just simplistic: Jupiter = learning, Pluto can = negative extremes like destitution, abject failure, death) === I like this -- informative w/ some astronomy, mythology, etc:
|
|
|
Post by 12YearsABlob on Apr 16, 2020 23:18:03 GMT
Hmm, I can see where you were coming from.. IMO, any hardship associated with outer planets has got to be a very broad category.. Like the Great Depression generation, or any world war, famine, etc. I've also heard of Pluto (in part) standing for "generational trauma" that's been passed down by our ancestors. The personal intricacies for me begin when these connect in specific ways to specific personal planets. And then again, there's room for interpretation. But that's just the way I see it, and probably have to read more to see what's out there.. Thanks for the links and the video, I'll check them out soon!
|
|
|
Post by Ava on Apr 16, 2020 23:29:26 GMT
^ Great points. I was just thinking of how most of the people I know of who were born within days of me have dealt with some extreme hardship. (Sun in a t-square with Jupiter and Pluto, sun at apex.) I know of three famous or semi-famous people: - One is HIV positive - One is dead, wrote a memoir on dying - One's in prison for murder, though no body was found and the whole thing looks shady My college acquaintance three days younger has a lot in common with me (I've listed all the similarities before); her husband has one of the world's most dangerous jobs (Alaskan deep sea fishing). So that's just a mini study. lumina has a friend in this group who seems successful and fine, no worries. Maybe the key to success is not to try too hard for success because it looks like the most successful ones went down first.
|
|
|
Post by 12YearsABlob on Apr 16, 2020 23:40:22 GMT
Oh, all of them had their Sun involved in the aspect? Each of their stories sounds brutal.
|
|
|
Post by Ava on Apr 20, 2020 2:50:50 GMT
Personal planets in hard aspect to Jupiter-Pluto: This could be good for changing established mores; or, on the other hand, undergoing upheavals in one's own value system from time to time. Sorry for being scattered on this thread. I love that, though: "undergoing upheavals in one's own value system from time to time." I think if this happens enough, the value system starts leaning towards transience and silence, knowing "This, too, shall pass." It's difficult to overcome the end-of-history illusion and envision one's future self because future circumstances always change. And maybe we naturally blend with our environment more than we like to think about, as it seems like a kind of boundary issue. Anyway, this quote comes to mind: "Anytime you cease to cling to yourself, you have an access of power. Because you’re wasting energy all the time in self-defence — trying to manage things, trying to force things to conform to your will. The moment you stop doing that, that wasted energy is available. You are one with the divine principle. You have the energy." -- Alan Watts (Jupiter-NN trine Saturn-Pluto) www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Alan_Watts
|
|
|
Post by Ava on Apr 20, 2020 3:27:39 GMT
Notes:
* Jupiter was last in Cap in 2008 (Great Recession). * It's important to note it happens three times, because that means a process is underway. Beginning: first conjunction (intensity, both planets direct) Second: June, July (June 23-July 9, both Rx, deeper review of what needs to be fixed, what is coming in that can support transformation) Last: Nov 8-12 @ 22 Cap, both planets direct. Completion of conjunction energies.
Massive transformation of our world, our values, how we have created our lives. Global renovation: obviously the most immediate example is coronavirus. Pluto (destruction)/Jupiter(opportunities). Jupiter is usually about expansion but this is in Capricorn so it could be more conservative than usual. Abundance of caution, overly safe. Affects business.
There is a shakedown; you see what really matters to you. Also highlighting: look at how we share our energy in the world. Now we're separating into our own energy fields to contain our energy and strengthening it (also pertains to immune system). Contagious energies have been unconscious. Now there is more awareness.
* Jupiter is how we arrive at our belief systems. This is rare, powerful astrology that we don't see very often at all. We have this opportunity to get really clear on what matters and is essential: toilet paper, vitamins, natural resources, herbs, taking care of our breathing, calming and meditation, mental health...working on things that bring you joy, learn new stuff on YouTube (list is endless)...that helps with mental health, learning helps with feeling mentally strong. We need to stay in a place of active engagement with what we enjoy. Look at our own energy levels. Understand how we have an opportunity to assess what matters in our world. * New policies will come into place; there will be a new way of living. * Not all infections are bad, there is infectious joy. * Be practical and realistic without living in fear. Trust the unfoldment, hope for an incredible outcoming and wonderful developments, have faith that good things will come from this.... * Saturn in Aqua ruling Jupiter-Pluto. Pluto connected to your soul's evolution, and it's changing permanently. Jupiter (hope, faith, trust) gives the opportunity to make this conscious and realize what's a place of power for you, that you perhaps didn't notice before. You might receive 3 different answers for each conjunction. This will happen in the Cap area of your chart, 22-24°. A process is unfolding, adjust expectations accordingly. * There was something you sensed in a smaller way, but now it's rising up in you, pushing you into a new area of your life that you weren't ready for, previously. But now there is a soul-force, a power bigger than you that you can't ignore anymore. Now you understand: this is a vital part of my soul's mission in this lifetime. Over the next 6 months this will happen with us all, collectively. * 20:25 There's also a deeper cycle happening that is connected to unfinished energy cords from other lifetimes. "I'm seeing an example of being an apprentice to an apothecary. It's like there's been training at an apprenticeship level in another lifetime (shop was burned down, there was a shortage)...something about these past lifetimes is going to come forth and come very easily to work with the earth, essential oils, etc." Stay out of the mind, trust body-consciousness. Shopping intuitively, driving, all kinds of changes of planets when we just listen to our bodies and move with the energy, though our minds don't understand it. Just trust the energy. Trust something bigger than you. * Something will be made very clear to you in the next several months. During each conjunction period, you are meant to powerfully understand something. * Mentors, elders (Jupiter in Cap)...ancient wisdom, energies of grandparents, loved ones who've passed over that you can call forth. There is support. You can feel guided. Have patience as this unfolds (big energy on multiple levels). * Know that at a soul level, you said you wanted to be here, so recognize this will be an advantageous...trust it will lead you to a safer shore. Look at how far you've gotten already. Consider how many times in your past that you thought everything would go wrong, but you made it through. Outside sources will show up. * 28:10 The ownership of our power is not easy. It's not simple, it's not direct. But you've got this. * There will be advantageous breakthroughs. Aa the world changes permanently know that you are individually strong, can ride bigger waves, and are traveling with Light. * Cap is cardinal and an initiation point, so this is the start of something new.
|
|
|
Post by lumina on Apr 20, 2020 9:58:29 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2020 13:48:31 GMT
Considering Bill Gates with his natal conjunction (@ 27-28 Leo, in the 2nd house)... The conjunction is the only thing Gates and I have in common. Mine's in the 1st house, trining my Sun/Neptune conjunction. Yep, definitely learnt through hardship, every step of the way. But now some issues have been laid to rest. I am no longer hampered by penury and have achieved some success in the latter years of my working life.
|
|
|
Post by anela on Apr 27, 2020 9:09:55 GMT
I have the same opposition as you, Ava, and it squares Saturn. I'm not sure what to add right now.
|
|
|
Post by Ava on Nov 15, 2020 15:41:33 GMT
I've also felt that Jupiter-Pluto relates to the quote, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." As if one's gifts to others (Jupiter) could feel cursed (Pluto).
So often in my life, I've tried to be generous, and it backfired. Was the generosity perceived as a form of control (Pluto)? Why was it tainted, when I wasn't aware of any dark motivations at all?
My daughter has a fire grand trine of ASC-Jupiter-Pluto and is currently in a situation like this, where she was moving mountains for a friend, a very good friend who unfortunately never took a moment to consider all my daughter had done, and brushed her off. There was a tremendous amount of care and effort on my daughter's part...it was misapplied, I guess? Heartbreaking.
Sometimes I wonder if this aspect compels the native away from certain types of individuals, or systematically removes those people from the native's life. Like my ex. Another case where I was being incredibly generous and doing all I could to support, accommodate, roll with the punches...and I lost him anyway, AND a lot of people blamed me for leaving, so I lost them, too. They just weren't my people, apparently. But it all seemed to be out of my hands, that's my point...or speculation.
Jupiter is conjunct Pluto now so maybe it's a time when issues like this are coming up in general.
Pls don't quote
|
|