Grand Crosses in Synastry

[vg]

Are they good or bad(if there is such a thing lol)? 

For example, my son has saturn square chiron square sun(and sun opposes saturn). My sun creates creates a synastry grand cross by opposing his Chiron and squaring his sun/saturn. 

I thought they would help balance out the energies, no? All i have been reading are negative things. Simple maybe bad example- my son and his father are close, but when his father has to travel, i guess i take on both roles, balancing out the void when he is not there- wouldn't that be a positive thing? He has moon in the 10th(house of father). I know its probably more complex than that. 

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[12YearsABlob]

Like you said, it's not as simple as good or bad. I *almost* experienced one, not quite, so I don't have in-depth information for you. (Oddly enough, mine also involved somebody's Sun-Saturn-Chiron t-square with my Sun!). However, like you said, the grand cross, especially if it's filling in the missing leg of a t-square can be quite binding. Any geometric completion in synastry can be like that. The energetic links are important by virtue of simply being there. I would much rather see a grand cross in synastry than fewer aspects. Any aspect is better than no aspect, as they say. The nature of a square is that it will be more "active" than, say, a trine (which can be complacent). So yes, there could be challenges, no doubt, but the aspects keep you engaged. Of course, the details depend on the individual natal charts as well as the rest of the synastry...

[vg]

@12yearsablob - I'm wondering if certain transits to one of the points in the grand cross would make things be a bit off balance(eg jupiter magnifying one of the points), I cant remember to be honest if that happened.

I do have a neptune opposite moon and my moon squares my sun, i think neptune - sun aspect might be too wide to be a square(9 deg). I have a friend who is a pisces moon and if i remember correctly their moon is square mine - i feel really comfortable talking to them about stuff. But im thinking though if even though there is a wide aspect between my neptune and sun, does their moon make my neptune-sun aspect more potent because there is more energy affecting it, thus making a grand cross? Maybe im talking rubbish there :/

Interesting you mention binding, i know alot of people would say that saturn contacts are binding(personally I think for me they can be just as separating - i think you had mentioned that in another thread too). But do you think that such things as grand crosses and mystic rectangles can be the "glue".

I would find a lack of sqaures more challenging than having them - reason i think as you mentioned for example having only trines can be a bit complacent. With square you do put the work in, they challenge you so to speak.

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[12YearsABlob]

Hey, vg ...
Yeah, I do think transiting planets can 'magnify' certain aspects, especially when they're applying in close orb.
I also agree with your point about synstry.. Any planet falling between your Sun-Neptune aspect (or, aspecting both Sun & Neptune), would act as a "bridge" between the two, IMO. It would possibly highlight those two in a way that you "bring" both to the relationship..

That's an interesting point about Saturn vs geometric completion... Good memory you have there! Yes, I do believe Saturn can be as separative as it is binding - depending on the people involved. When it comes to pattern completion in synastry, I think it might be more about feelings than longevity. As in, even if (for some reason) the people with a mystic rectangle/grand cross happen to go their separate ways, they might hold on to the feeling that no-one else "completes" them like that person did. It's easy to fall back into step when this is present. So, they can stay involved because they choose to. With Saturn, one might feel they're bound against their will (almost). Of course, that might not entirely be true, but that's another story.

I'm not sure that answers your question. Bottom line: if they connect, there will always be pulled towards each other, IMO.

[vg]

Hey 12YearsABlob

Yeah I that friend i mentioned i dont see them very often these days but when we do its like we just pick up where we left off. You know when you have been friends with someone in the past and you havent seen them in a while and you worry if it will be the same? With that friend i don't, they're one of the few i trust, i find it very hard to trust someone - interesting though that it involved neptune/moons and the sun. I have a couple other friends like that but i picked this one because i remembered about their moon, i'll have to look at the aspects of the others. It's funny in this case because moon sq moon arent really supposed to get along.

Yea sometimes i find saturn a bit suffocating, i recently had uranus opposing my n saturn and i felt so suffocated in every area of life i just wanted to go out and do what i want lol. I dont think saturn contacts equate to long term feelings of happiness(that would be something else ), commitment perhaps. Saturn breakups are brutal. Yea as you say its another story, i think Saturn could have a forum all of it's own

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[FruityLlama]

I am starting to wonder if synastric/composite patterns, regardless of whether they are squares, crosses, trines etc are symbolic of a very involved couple. If you take a grand cross, then it takes planets from different areas of the chart and connects them. Crosses and squares are action based and invigorating. In everyday life, I would say that it's likely the couple will simply have a lot to deal with in the relationship. I don't mean drama necessarily, just that the individuals will bring their own points of focus to the other and they work at these issues in whatever manner the configuration represents.

With a grand cross, I would imagine the couple are able to arrive at the same conclusions by discussing the pros and cons, weighing things up and playing devils advocate since there are two oppositions going on there, if I'm not mistaken?

In comparison, a grand trine would not be as active because the couple would bring more or less the same figurative tools and resources to the table, whereas a grand cross/square would bring different things which inspire action much more quickly since you have the ability to do so.

Think of a couple trying to build some sort of make shift cabin in the woods (haha). In a grand trine, perhaps both people bring a selection of felling axes since that is their go to solution to a problem or issue. Need axe for wood. So you can get wood sorted, no problem, but if you're both of that mindset, it might take you longer to realise that you need..idk, a good spot to build, some insulation material, some binding material etc. With a grand cross/square, both parties will have different perspectives of what to get first. In this case, it's quite good since you can build on the differing strengths of each person and get the cabin done.

Obviously it depends on the task at hand and how each person deals with teamwork, but that's how I see it. Crosses and squares cast the net wider and bring in more personal resources in order to work on the relationship. Sometimes that can cause friction since differences are more noticeable, but a grand trine needn't be any better if you think that, negatively, that can be a couple burying their heads in the sand and not taking necessary action to rectify a problem.

Haven't re read this so hope to god it makes sense and doesn't read too much like how I talk i.e insane ramblings haha!!

[12YearsABlob]

That's an interesting thought, FruityLlama ! (I swear, it's hard to have a serious discussion with our screen names as they are ). Where else would you get a sentient blob talking to a Llama?

I kind of see what you're getting at with the grand trine... But IME, what happens is, they'll be smooth *and* complementary. i.e., (to use your example), they'll bring the things you forgot without you ever having discussed who's bringing what. With the squares, you might bring materials for different kinds of cabins and argue over what kind is better and who should be doing what... In the end, the resultant hybrid design might combine the strengths (and weaknesses) of both.. But it's an uphill battle. With the grand trine, you'll be singing and whistling merrily through the whole thing - it doesn't seem like such hard labour.

^ Well, at least going off of my experience with grand trines.. They are complementary, in a very natural way..(I imagine the grand cross is complementary as well, like you said, but maybe with more friction?)

[12YearsABlob]

Apr 12, 2020 20:39:04 GMT FruityLlama said:

I am starting to wonder if synastric/composite patterns, regardless of whether they are squares, crosses, trines etc are symbolic of a very involved couple. If you take a grand cross, then it takes planets from different areas of the chart and connects them. Crosses and squares are action based and invigorating. In everyday life, I would say that it's likely the couple will simply have a lot to deal with in the relationship. I don't mean drama necessarily, just that the individuals will bring their own points of focus to the other and they work at these issues in whatever manner the configuration represents.

Aah yes, I see that too... Those geometric configurations could make a very involved couple.

[FruityLlama]

Apr 12, 2020 20:45:34 GMT 12YearsABlob said:

That's an interesting thought, FruityLlama ! (I swear, it's hard to have a serious discussion with our screen names as they are ). Where else would you get a sentient blob talking to a Llama?

 Well exactly, only on AstroGarden!!! 

Ah yes, I think that's probably a better explanation actually. Grand trines are more about being on the same wavelength aren't they, but are quieter about it. 

I can attest to squares and crosses feeling like that at times, but I've had different experiences with the same configurations. It probably depends on the planets there too though in my case.

[12YearsABlob]

^ Right, I too have had different experiences with the same configuration (the bigger picture is different, and then there's the human factor). Wish I had a grand cross to compare..

[enneline]

once i heard that grand crosses in synastries are dealbreakers, that no couple would ever survive it....while in a composite it's something incredibly binding...

But you and your son are no couple so to speak. I read your grand cross as a very stable, very intense relationship, like you are healing him constantly of feeling unloved- maybe even helping him to overcome karmic topics? Just a guess.

Moon in 10th is not always "show my heart to the world", it can create intense feelings toward the mother. I have it myself....and i remember that one from LL said that she never encountered a person with moon in 10th who has no strong feelings toward the mother. Well, in my case i find it to be true

[FruityLlama]

Has anyone experienced a grand cross in synastry IRL?

I have one with someone I admire artistically. Their Mars opp. Pluto crosses my AC/DC-Neptune axis and squares all the way around.
EDIT:- just realised I have a similar thing with a different person, but this person has a natal Venus-Pluto opposition squaring my ASC/DSC-Neptune..! Both people have inspired me artistically and intellectually in different ways.

Don't know what to make of that, but it got me wondering about this configuration again. I didn't want to make another thread, but has anyone experienced this in real life?

An ex friend of mine has a natal t-square consisting of MC 20 Aries opp. Merc 15 Libra squared by Neptune 22 Cap. My ASC again widely completes this at 21 Cancer. My ASC-DSC axis interestingly falls into her 12th/6th house. She lied to me about big stuff and was generally a bit of a mess to be honest. The more I got to know her the more I realised she had a rep for being a bit flaky (MC squares?) and I suppose the Neptune sq Merc demonstrates the lying pretty well too. Can't believe I didn't notice this before!!
It's a shame really because she was otherwise very nice and sweet  

I have a pleasant Saturn opp Chiron really tight straddling my MC-IC axis too. I'll keep watching to see if anyone squares that in synastries.

[FruityLlama]

My sister has a natal Sun-Neptune opposition squared by Saturn. Her boyfriend completes her T-square with his moon opposing her Saturn. They seem happy enough on the whole.

[Ava]

I think with a mutual grand cross in synastry...it's fitting that Mercury and Jupiter disposit all four planets/points, if you use Jupiter as ruler of Pisces.

Gemini/Mercury
Virgo/Mercury
Sag/Jupiter
Pisces/Jupiter

It's fitting because mutual signs change their minds, adapt to circumstance, move along...they are all dual signs. There are more twists and turns, so the story gets longer, because a lot is happening.

Mercury-Jupiter in combination can be excessively communicative, so it's well-suited for the work of trying to explain everything that happened and is happening when four mutual planets all congregate in one relationship (and each of those planets in a dual sign, so it's more like 8 planetary energies to juggle).

All the mutable planets are known for disappearing, shutting down, going off grid...'might be a case of paralysis by overanalysis or simply escaping the Mercury-Jupiter "noise." These signs like clean slates and starting over or just plain being alone. I think the success of mutable grand cross synastry depends on allowing each other that space and not letting communication take on a complete life of its own (Mercury-Jupiter excess again); there's more to life than what we say about it...

Just some thoughts. I have a mutable t-square in my natal chart so I'm thinking of my life and its themes, as I type.

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