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Post by lumina on Jan 21, 2020 12:04:03 GMT
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jan 21, 2020 13:56:52 GMT
Aah... Why would God put a Juno-Saturn conjunction in there, only to make it part of a t-square? Of course, it can be great too, given the right circumstances..
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Post by lumina on Jan 21, 2020 14:29:05 GMT
Nah the orbs are too wide for the square.
Juno-Saturn will happen in pracrically every harmonic, cause the natal aspect is so exact. It is just part of ne that vibrates through everything. Uneven numbers will have the co junction, even numbers the trine.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jan 21, 2020 14:34:15 GMT
Oh, well, I thought the orbs were different in harmonics.. Although the ones I see are legit to me natally as well, because I go with configurations above all else. But that's just me, I get that those might be too wide for others.. And Sun-Uranus seems to promise an exciting year.. In retrospect, did you do or think differently that year?
What about the other aspects, how did they play out?
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Post by lumina on Jan 21, 2020 15:05:52 GMT
12YearsABlobYes, orbs are different in harmonic charts. But age harmonics are treated as predictive charts and an orb of 1 degree is suggested. Well i use upbto 2 degrees, depending on the chart. I count the opposition to mercury venus certainly. And yeah, very different year. Very very much so. Lol guess my life took a diff. Turn then than it cozld have. Sun uranus was opposite my natal moon on 17 aqua too. Also in the progressions i had pr moon opposite n uranus square pr sun, which was entering 00 aqua in may of that year. Two diff. Methods showing the same.
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Post by Ava on Jan 21, 2020 18:55:44 GMT
But age harmonics are treated as predictive charts and an orb of 1 degree is suggested. Well i use upbto 2 degrees, depending on the chart. Using 1° max, there isn't much here; fortunately sun-Uranus is within orb... Do you do harmonic-to-harmonic synastry?
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Post by lumina on Jan 21, 2020 19:54:21 GMT
Yes, synastry is very valid.
I beg to differ though, that is pretty outstanding, a partile sun, - uranus conjunction opposing natal moon, even the sun uranus alone. Also harmonic vesta.
Plus juno conjunct saturn, trine mars. I also would consider saturn -juno opp. Nercury-venus, mostly because of rgeir midpoint alignment,
Mercur, and venus falling onto natal saturn on 16 cancer and vertex on 21 cancer.
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Post by lumina on Jan 21, 2020 20:07:40 GMT
The overlays to natal are just what alice portman and orhers do. I am aware of course that these are not really in the sense of traditional harnonic synastry, and maybe they are not vakid, but only the comparision within the harmonic charr. Though int that case usual harmonic irbs should be okay, welk cochrane suggests usi g half the orb, if doing harmonic synadtry to focus on central themes.
Anyway those are just two different approaches to harmonic charts. So i vuess it nust depends how we look at it. And wl i like focusing on harmonic to harmonic, same harmonic i mean, and using tight orbs, of about 2 degrees, so i know i am on the safe side of what works.
Well maybe rhe Moon is part of thatvtsquare after all, i mean we do not sti kbto 1 degree for solar returns either and tge age harmonics are a similiar concept.
And ti include lilith and moon abd even the co junction of venus ro pluto using harmonic orbs does make sense.
Though the tighter the more central so there is this strong sun uranus signature here
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Post by lumina on Jan 21, 2020 20:15:57 GMT
This was the other persons age harmonic
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Post by Ava on Jan 22, 2020 1:18:31 GMT
lumina, I'm surprised to learn any astrologers look at harmonic-to-natal aspects. Wow, that would open a huge can of worms for me with my 9th harmonic. Anyway, didn't mean to diminish the significance of your chart, I was just saying, there doesn't seem to be a lot with super tight orbs. When you say the other person's age harmonic, is that for the same age as yours? Since I was stupid about a guy for too long, I checked our matching age harmonics for our little Golden Age (when we were the same age at the same time), and found this synastry: Me: 20.04 Gemini nodes 21.05 Virgo moon 20.02 Libra Mercury Him (nodal chart birth time): 21.56 Virgo Pluto 20.18 Leo Chiron 18.06 Libra moon 19.00 Libra sun 20.25 Libra Mars 19.12 Cap IC/MC Our Jupiters were conjunct: 16.21 Sag (me), 17.57 Sag (him) My soon-to-be-infamous Juno-Pluto conjunction (now that I know about it, I'll bring it up more) was @ 7 Libra, on his ASC/DSC + nodes @ 7 Libra (using his nodal chart). === Testing age harmonic's relevance in my life & its timeline, I've found some intriguing things so far.
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Post by lumina on Jan 22, 2020 7:17:51 GMT
Ava "I'm surprised to learn any astrologers look at harmonic-to-natal aspects." It depends on the astrologer. comparing harmonic to natals is actually mixing apples and oranges, it doesn´t tell us anything about the basic aspects present within the natal chart as vibrational/ harmonic astrology does. it is a more esoteric technique I`d say, more symbolic. However Alice Portman does it, and also in Vedic astrology the navamsa is compared to the rasi as well, it is a different perspective on charts. I try to keep those two methods distinguished from each other in my mind, as they are different approaches, even though both use the harmonic charts. Personally I feel more comfortable with Cochrane`s and Marks and Hamblins approach to harmonic astrology. But that is not to say that the overlays to the natal are invalid. they just may be more symbolic, but hey, why not? "Anyway, didn't mean to diminish the significance of your chart, I was just saying, there doesn't seem to be a lot with super tight orbs. " Yes, but I actually prefer really important aspects, even if there are fewer of them. They seem to be more specific that way and not make the chart getting all "fizzly". Of course, since this was me at age 33, this is ALSO my 33rd harmonic chart - who knows maybe age 33 opens up or crystallizes the natal 33rd harmonic aspects? 33rd harmonic means that it is actually part of my 11th harmonic - Aha. Well it shows up as a trine in the 11th harmonic with an orb of about 19 minutes I think, 11th harmonic Sun on 14°58 Virgo to 11th Uranus on 15°17 Taurus. This made a LOT of lightbulbs going on in my head actually. lol Anyway so the 33rd harmonic is basically related to trines in the 11th harmonic chart. David Cochrane found the 11th harmonic to be extremely important and it seems to intrigue all the harmonic astrologers next to the 13th harmonic. lol It seems to relate to what I would call "hunger/ craving for more". Can be inclined to obsessiveness and compulsion of course (it is also strong in criminals it seems, or in artists, esp. musicians), it is irrational (a prime number), as Cochrane puts it "Hungry for change". And like a sept/ septime in music it "strives for completion" to get to the next octave. Or as my music teacher put it, it is the "longing-note", you cannot end a song on that note, because it just has that push towards the next higher note whcih then is one of stabilty, where it feels peaceful as it is our base note, or actually the higher octave, but it feels round, stable, complete (which actually would be the 12th harmonic in terms of harmonic astrology). But well I can relate to that musical metaphor, if you play the piano try to play the note before the octave, the sept and try to NOT play the subsequent octave-note then. It is impossible. or if it is possibly it feels physically painful, like an ache or an itch that demands to be scratched to find some peace and rest. something like that. Well I DO have Uranus in a tight aspect to an inner planet in the 11th harmonic, it is a trine though, the 33rd harmonic aspect. I wonder if that means that craziness is flowing without being hindered. lol or if that smoothes the edges and instead of making it a harsh instability giving more of a softer energetic flow, but definitely it is related to the desire for change. So making sense a lot. Oh and I particularly loved him referring to music and the 11th harmonic. LOL that is so fitting - hilarious. (in my book it also relates to creative fantasies in general). But yeah so my 33rd age harmonic was in play with that Sun-Uranus when I met P. lol for him it was the 28th age harmonic (which is part of the 7th harmonic obviously, mostly squares in the 7th harmonic, might also bear a meaning). Interestingly He was having HIS 33rd harmonic happening when he got together with his wife, and curiously enough at the end of the year we re-met, and it was downright weird, as I got that feeling like he had just been waiting for this. Like it was not just a neutral meeting but more so him radiating this: "Finally"-vibration. lol Probably not true at all, but the months before had been.... challenging. Well his 33rd harmonic chart IS challenging (BTW his wife`s age harmonic Mars was conjunct his age harmonic Venus that year) Well he came out of a very difficult time. Anyway I find it interesting that my 33rd harmonic Sun-Uranus-conjunction is basically falling into the empty spot on that Grand square. Well in terms of age harmonics those were not triggered simultaneously because of the 5 years age difference, however they ARe both in our respective 33rd harmonic. Makes me curious about the 11th harmonic now. lol "When you say the other person's age harmonic, is that for the same age as yours? " No, for the same year, which relates to a different age harmonic. "Me: 20.04 Gemini nodes 21.05 Virgo moon 20.02 Libra Mercury Him (nodal chart birth time): 21.56 Virgo Pluto 20.18 Leo Chiron 18.06 Libra moon 19.00 Libra sun 20.25 Libra Mars 19.12 Cap IC/MC " that is pretty strong alignment there! Moon-Pluto, holy crap!!! Along with Mercury on his New Moon-Mars in his harmonic. Well that WAS a year for him to start something new, actualyl it is like that was even more important for him than for you, even though he might communicate it differently. Our Jupiters were conjunct: 16.21 Sag (me), 17.57 Sag (him) Expanding horizons, cool "My soon-to-be-infamous Juno-Pluto conjunction (now that I know about it, I'll bring it up more) was @ 7 Libra, on his ASC/DSC + nodes @ 7 Libra (using his nodal chart). " LOL that is crazy strong! "Testing age harmonic's relevance in my life & its timeline, I've found some intriguing things so far."Yes, me, too. that is why I brought them up
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Post by lumina on Jan 22, 2020 7:43:13 GMT
btw in P`s 33rd age harmonic chart, see the one minute square of Uranus to Ceres`? No comment! lol
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Post by Ava on Jan 24, 2020 4:00:05 GMT
Thanks lumina, that's all fascinating. " David Cochrane found the 11th harmonic to be extremely important and it seems to intrigue all the harmonic astrologers next to the 13th harmonic. lol It seems to relate to what I would call "hunger/ craving for more". Can be inclined to obsessiveness and compulsion of course (it is also strong in criminals it seems, or in artists, esp. musicians), it is irrational (a prime number), as Cochrane puts it "Hungry for change". And like a sept/ septime in music it "strives for completion" to get to the next octave." My 11th harmonic has sun-Neptune-Chiron in Sag with Libra Venus on the SN. "I wonder if that means that craziness is flowing without being hindered. lol or if that smoothes the edges and instead of making it a harsh instability giving more of a softer energetic flow, but definitely it is related to the desire for change. So making sense a lot." No idea. I don't really like suspense or unfinished business so I can't see how that's smooth...well my 11th has Mercury conjunct Mars in Cancer so no wonder I'm impatient and crabby about it. "Interestingly He was having HIS 33rd harmonic happening when he got together with his wife, and curiously enough at the end of the year we re-met, and it was downright weird, as I got that feeling like he had just been waiting for this." You were 33 then? "Well his 33rd harmonic chart IS challenging (BTW his wife`s age harmonic Mars was conjunct his age harmonic Venus that year)" OMG, he should have picked a different year. What a difficult chart. Just checked my 23rd harmonic (age when I got married) and it's super intense, with a moon-Pluto exact conjunction, conjunct the sun, opposing Venus, and speaking of mix-and-match, all of that falls on the 9th harmonic nodal axis. Also my natal Venus-Uranus semisextile is repeated there, with 1 Cap Venus semisextile 1 Aqua Uranus and 0 Sag MC (29 Scorpio DSC). "Anyway I find it interesting that my 33rd harmonic Sun-Uranus-conjunction is basically falling into the empty spot on that Grand square." Makes sense to me, all things considered. You can belong someplace even if you are not physically present. "that is pretty strong alignment there! Moon-Pluto, holy crap!!!" Ha, yeah...those were the days.
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Post by lumina on Jan 24, 2020 7:27:31 GMT
Ava "My 11th harmonic has sun-Neptune-Chiron in Sag with Libra Venus on the SN. " Sounds very deeply intuitive and spritual to me, along with the romantic tilt. Well there are suggestions out there (not from Cochrane though) that the 11th harmonic chart is the "twinflame-(marker)" chart (I think Glaucus and Leeloo brought that up at the other place). You know my reservations with the concept, but there is actually something to it. not necessary twinflames per se, but I don´t think the 11th is so much about unfinished business but about the sense that there is something "more" to what we see. The "drive for change", the feeling of that inner push, in the 11th harmonic usually does not just stay a nagging feeling (well maybe if things go really bad. lol), but pushes people to go beyond their boundaries and create something out of it, express this, I think that is the reason it is a strong harmonic in so many artists and musicians. They give form and expression to this feeling of a deeper layer of reality or how we would call it. Speaking of musicians, P has a pretty strong 11th harmonic chart I`d think. (for starters a conjunction of Sun and Pluto on the SN from 25-28 Taurus, the Sun-pluto-conjunction being really tight; part of a T-square with Saturn on 23 Leo and his own name on 24 -aqua conj. Jupiter on 21 Aqua// Moon conjunct Chiron on 15 Gemini conjunct Ceres on 17 Gemini making a sextile to Venus on 15 Aries and quinkunx Mercury on 13 Scorpio; Mercury is also in - harmonic- orb for opposing Uranus on 17 Taurus, and well that is actually the spot were me as well as his wife come into play in terms of his 11th harmonic. lol Well his 11th harmonic ASC is on 11 Aquarius - so the symbolic / equal housesystem places the Sun-Pluto-conjunction into the 4th house with Saturn in the 7th house and his Jupiter-name in 1st house (I always find that interesting if ones own name is conjunct the ASC - it happens in my 9th harmonic chart and actually it happens in my age harmonic chart for this year, curiously also in Aquarius) the Yod then pertains to Venus in 3rd house, the Moon-Chiron-Ceres-stellium in 5th house and Mercury in 10th house oh and hilariously my name is on his DESC in the 11th harmonic: 11th DESC 11°57 Leo 11th my name 10°49 Leo His 11th is as magnetic (going inwards) as his 5th house is electric and expressive. (btw his 5th harmonic has my name right on his Sun-Moon-MC. lol closer to his Sun though. Guess my name must be quintile his Sun. his 5th has this Mars-Jupiter-Uranus-his name- IC stellium opopsing Sun-Moon-MC, which sais it all I guess. lol) I see the difference bewteen the creative expression between those two harmonics as the 5th harmonics being expressive and creative because it is just natural, it comes from the playful side, by wanting to create as an impulse almost, pretty extroverted (depending on which planets are together in this harmonic of course, a Saturn-Venus in the 5th might not be as extrovert. But Mars-Jupiter-uranus to Sun-Moon-MC - no question about interpreting that I guess. lol and the 11th is more creative and expressive coming from that layer behind reality, from some more either spiritual or even imaginary source. those archetypical images rising up from the psyche. .well my 11th has Mercury conjunct Mars in Cancer so no wonder I'm impatient and crabby about it. " strong mental energy dedicated to things "behind the veil", jep, makes sense. You could probably write a fantasy novel with warriors, amazones, people protecting their homes, stuff like that. Bit like the Arthurian legend just different. "You were 33 then? " No, I am 5 years older than him. "OMG, he should have picked a different year. What a difficult chart. "§ Definitely. the year before was when I had basically "dropped out", he was breaking up with his longterm girlfriend and in summer he met his wife, oh and that month I also showed up again, sort of. Well that year harmonic of his had an exact square of Saturn and Juno from 14 Sag to 15 Virgo, reflecting the Transiting Saturn squaring his natal Venus and Juno. ( think his ex-gf had her natal Saturn-Juno conjunction opposing Chiron somewhere near in Sag-Gemini). There was also for him AH Pluto on 24 Aquarius opposing AH Priapus on 24 Leo square AH Neptune on 24 Taurus AH Neptune was near my name in his AH on 23 Taurus, which in turn was opposing his wife`s name on 22 Scorpio (orb: 0°28), on his natal Uranus on 23 Scorpio. Curious that her and my name were exactly opposite. However his AH ASC was on 10 Scorpio, putting AH DESC on his n Chiron on 9 Taurus and his wife`s n Mars on 10 Taurus, and her name in his chart is on 11 Scorpio or so, so his age harmonic favoured her I guess. I was basically the focal point of the Pluto-Priapus-opposition, and with the Neptune so near all fuzzy and vague AH Uranus was also exact on his natal Moon-MC on 28 Sag, and possibly there were some midpoints invoving AH Sun on 22 Sag and AH Jupiter on 25 Gemini as well. "Just checked my 23rd harmonic (age when I got married) and it's super intense, with a moon-Pluto exact conjunction, conjunct the sun, opposing Venus, and speaking of mix-and-match," Wow. very intense it sounds, esp. with the Sun AHND Venus too. Venus probably makes it tilted towards romance as well. my current age harmonic actually has a Sun-Neptune conjunction and a Moon-Pluto-conjunction (and Moon-Pluto is closish to Mars, maybe too wide for an age harmonic but there are several midpoint configurations happening). Also my natal Venus-Uranus semisextile is repeated there, with 1 Cap Venus semisextile 1 Aqua Uranus and 0 Sag MC (29 Scorpio DSC). Yes, it is so close that it probably will be a constant vibration in almost all harmonics.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jan 25, 2020 18:41:58 GMT
Looking at age harmonics for myself and my friends.. There are hits and misses. Sometimes the closest aspects/patterns do tell a story. Sometimes they don't translate to real life. Perhaps my interpretation is off because it's hard to tell, even by focusing on partile aspects alone, whether or not something matters.
Another possible reason could be that we're dividing the circle into such small pieces now, that the information is too scattered to observe(?) I dunno, just wondering..
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Post by lumina on Jan 25, 2020 19:23:20 GMT
Could be of course. But i was just amazed at how descriptive they are. No real misses for me so far. Esp. With tbe day age harmonics. But the annual ones are very fitting too, but we have to keep in mind like the solar return they are describing a whole year.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jan 25, 2020 19:41:58 GMT
Hang on, what are day age harmonics? I was looking at past years' age harmonics, btw. But yeah, wish there were more sources or something..
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Post by lumina on Jan 25, 2020 19:58:02 GMT
Day age harmonics are harmonics of your exact age at a specific day. Yiu do need a very accurate chart tbough with birthtime, just like with the yearly age harmonics. Astro.com has those age harmonics also since recently
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Post by lumina on Jan 25, 2020 20:19:51 GMT
The year harmonics are calculated for your birthday, but time moves on obviously. Today i am 45,10... something old, so that is my harmonic number for now. Well it gives an asc on 11 pisc conjunct natal jupiter on 11 pisces and separating from n ceres on 9 pisces.
Today we have been celebrating my dads birthday all day long with a lot of food and people and talking.
Dah sn and pluto surrounding my n asc, dah sn exact on POLIHYMNIA in my natal. There was a piano there and i sat down googling the sheet and correcting two false notes in it. Lol and played "happy birthday" for my dad and the people were singing along.
I have not played anything for ages, not even such a simple thing, and certainly not in public and never to other peoples singing, which as i realized is really something different than solo playing.
Well i have of course at some point in my yiuth had electric piano lessons, but never was any good. Well i was t really good today either, but i figured tgat i did not need to. Lol
But well it was somwthing from the past i reactivated, so the sn makes sense.
Also got exceptionally well along with my mom and at one point sort of read her mind, i mean like sharing some thought of her down to the wording
My dah venus exactly conjunct her sun, my dah ic on her mercury in scorpio.
And stuff like this.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jan 25, 2020 21:56:42 GMT
Oh, that's pretty cool! I'm gonna try that myself. Happy birthday to your dad.. <3 Your description made the whole scene come alive in my mind.
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