Moon aspecting Pluto in composite

[Ava]

Jewel Mayberry has some videos on these:

Composite Moon conjunct Pluto: Super Close "This aspect will create a relationship that no other can touch, in intensity."

Composite Moon opposing Pluto: It's Intense

My husband and I have the square, and I have the opposition in composite with a friend....

Since these are midpoint charts, it's hard to understand why there's a meaningful difference between conjunction and opposition. lumina, what do you think?

The reason I'm starting a thread on this is, I think these aspects might be super magnetizing, on a sort of primal level, maybe a subconscious level, so it goes beneath and beyond thought, and creates attachments for reasons that might elude you. You just find yourself drawn in. Then there are communication problems because the experience is off the beaten path, maybe more spiritual and mysterious, something that doesn't make rational sense.

With the conjunction, Jewel talks about how the partners might think they are Twin Flames, because they are straining to find words for their level of connection.

I guess my question is, if you've had moon-Pluto in composite, were there any serious communication problems? Or difficulties using language to accomplish what you wanted? For instance, you want certain things in the relationship, but can't bring yourself to ask, because moon-Pluto needs seem to overrule individual considerations...as if it's a given that everything has to be "us" more than "me."

Pls don't quote

Just wondering...

[lumina]

Ava

I`ve been thinking about this, too. For example DAvid Cochrane treats the conjunction/opposition in equal ways.
The differentiation might come from people sort of "forgetting" (putting aside) that the composite is NOT a regular natal chart, like we would see in the sky, where of course conjunction and opposition are very different aspects.

Midpoints are really about a midpoint-axis. #


Now I COULD imagine that some astrologers think that there is a difference between a near and a far midpoint, and who knows? Maybe there is. I am not exactly clear on that though.
If people have the same planets close to each other I can even understand it. For example P`s Moon in Sag and my Moon in Aqua, of course the near midpoint is in Cap, and that makes sense, as it is such a short distance.

But how about person A having Moon in Aries and person B having Moon in Libra. The near and far midpoint would of course be on the Cancer-Capricorn-axis, but the difference would be much more minor than in P`s and my case for example.

Well A and me have Mars positions in exact opposition, his on 5 Gemini, mine on 5 Sag. In our composite the Mars falls onto the Virgo-side. but that is really just a matters of MINUTES. Had my Mars been on 6 Sag for example the nearer midpoint would have been in Pisces.

So I am not really sure, I mean to say, maybe there is a difference in meaning between near and far midpoint, or there is none, or there is a little difference.

Well the only thing I am sure of is that no matter if falling onto the near or far midpoint it is like a laser-like-focus there and "does something".


Hmm, Well transiting Pluto is conjunct our composite Moon, which is probably not the same but interesting.

composite Moon is on 22 Cap
composite Venus is on 16 Cap

composite Mars on 23 Libra
composite Pluto on 15 Libra

I do not really count the 7 degree square of Moon to Pluto as a big major thing in our composite, but the crossing of those squares is interesting.


Also of course the midpoints are conjunct each other (well midpoints from midpoints but still. lol)

Moon/Pluto 4°03 Sag
Venus/Mars 4°35 Sag


Hmm, wasn`t transiting Venus somewhere around recently?

[Ava]

Thank you for this great, thorough answer lumina! More later...

[12YearsABlob]

Hmm, that's true - the near and far midpoints are tricky.

In some cases, Jewel Mayberry says the opposition is better than the conjunction (for instance, Venus-Saturn in composite).

With Moon-Pluto, however, the main difference between the conjunction and opposition boils down to who's playing those roles (probably, IMO).

As usual, sometimes the aspect differs in composite and Davison. The takeaway is that, if it appears in both charts, it's probably more of a theme.

Back to composite, though. In one example, we do have communication issues - but that's because we have an afflicted mercury. And we have other "issues". Another composite that does not have mercury afflicted also has communication difficulties, but I think that's thanks to a composite Moon-Saturn square. 

With the conjunction/opposition, I do struggle to define "us". Maybe they are one of my soulmates, maybe not. I never thought of us as twin flames, though I'm not clear on the concept anyway. It's a deep connection, or so it seems - we can leave it at that.

However, it does include a sense of "this should be a given". At least when it comes to feelings. Both are hooked into each other at a very deep, vulnerable level. So, there's this feeling that the other person should intuit and fulfil your needs (which does happen, but not all the time). It's extra offensive when they don't pick up on non-verbal cues. I might be segueing into our Moon-Neptune synastry here.

Composite Moon-Pluto can be downright exhausting for less Plutonian people - which is why they usually try to walk away from such a relationship. But they somehow find a way to be involved with each others' lives anyway, especially the conjunction.

I imagine with the square it's more of a struggle between lunar relating and Plutonian probing. They don't polarize into those roles for long peroids of time like the opposition. Either they both embody those roles fairly often, or one is always grilling for more intimacy and the other is backing away. With the conjunction, they're both nuts. (Call it a tie because both are equally manipulative? Lol).

It's worth tracing where this comes from in synastry. Not always, but usually there is Moon-Pluto synastry involved. If one or both of them also have Moon-Pluto natally... Yeah, haha. I don't even need to elaborate. 

[lumina]

Jan 13, 2019 15:36:18 GMT 12YearsABlob said:

It's worth tracing where this comes from in synastry. 

I think that is actually one of the most important (and overlooked) steps. There is a difference, depending on a) the synastric aspects or b) mirrored natal aspects. 

Moon-Pluto-conjunction or opposition in a composite can happen either because two people have the same angular distance between Moon and Pluto natally, or synastrically. If this same angular distance also is a major aspect then it`s a major theme. the conjunction and opposition usually happens when there is one waxing and one waning aspect; while if the aspect phase is the same (either waning or waxing) the same aspect ight come up in the composite as happens in P`s and my composite. 

We both have a waxing square between Venus and Pluto in our respective natals, so it comes up as a square in composite. (Had it been one waxing and one waning square, it would have become a conjunction or opposition in the composite). 

[Ava]

Ah, what a treat to read all of this....thank you 12YearsABlob + lumina .

12YearsABlob,

"However, it does include a sense of 'this should be a given'. At least when it comes to feelings. Both are hooked into each other at a very deep, vulnerable level. So, there's this feeling that the other person should intuit and fulfil your needs (which does happen, but not all the time)."

*nodding* Yes...these people have issues. Depth and gravity create the potential for immobility...you don't mean to be dependent on the other person, like you don't choose to be earth-bound. 

lumina,

Good to know Cochrane doesn't differentiate like Jewel does...not that she's wrong, I just felt it was a matter of preference rather than orthodoxy. Though I do agree it's definitely worth looking at synastry and filling in context that way. If a moon-Pluto opposition occurs because both people are Aries moons opp Libra Pluto, well of course, one might suppose the energy is more variable and dynamic than if they both have Libra moons and Libra Pluto....then I'd expect a more quiet and maybe even claustrophobic atmosphere.  

Tr Pluto on comp moon with P....not sure what to say, except I have been impatient with him and his failure to drop everything and run to you.

You know, for what it's worth.  

[lumina]

Ava


"Though I do agree it's definitely worth looking at synastry and filling in context that way. If a moon-Pluto opposition occurs because both people are Aries moons opp Libra Pluto, well of course, one might suppose the energy is more variable and dynamic than if they both have Libra moons and Libra Pluto....then I'd expect a more quiet and maybe even claustrophobic atmosphere.
"

I agree. Also I noticed that the underlying aspects of the progressed composite Fullmoon with P are first of all made of a) major aspects (which is not always the case) and b) all of these being trines. lol of course becoming exact over the course of a few months/ years, the progressed composite is just indicating the midpoint in time between all these. 

his pMoon trine pSun: 6 Gemini - 6 Aquarius: (june 2018)

his pMoon trine my pSun: 10 Gemini - 10 Aquarius (october 2018)

my pMoon trine his pSun: 7 Libra - 7 Aquarius (may 2019)

my pMoon trine my pSun: 11 Libra - 11 Aquarius (august 2019)


And the progressed composite Sun opposing pr c Moon: 8 Aqua - 8 Leo (january 2019, so basically now)

of course what that really means, that progressed composite fullmoon is found in the midpoints of both our progressed charts: 


his pSun: 6 Aqua
my psun: 10 Aqua

so the mp being on 8 Aqua


But well whatever that really means with the progressed composite fullmoon, it should just "flow", either together or away from each other. 


 






"Tr Pluto on comp moon with P....not sure what to say, except I have been impatient with him and his failure to drop everything and run to you.
"
Haha, I know, you seem sometimes more upset about it than me. 
Must be the Venus-Neptune-conjunction in Sag. My Venus in Cap wouldn´t even really expect something like that, and honestly? 

While on some level I would feel happy/ flattered, I think actually I wouldn´t even want that. or wouldn´t know what to do if that happened. lol 

I do think that, while it sometimes sucks, esp. if he is being uncommunicative, he is doing the "right" thing. He has responsibilities for a family, and I am sure he loves his wife, no matter what kind of "resonance" there might be between us. And to be honest we do not even know how "compatible" this resonance would be in the frame of a relationship or something. 

So no, I wouldn´t want him to "run" to me. I would want us to be able to communicate more honestly about what is going on between us, cause there definitely is *something* going on; but I guess neither of us really ready to share that, or even understanding WHAT exactly this *something* is. 

So I completely understand him not wanting to touch this which might open up a can of worms, and once let free, it might be difficult to get them back into the can again. 


But well I`m open for a friendship, I think I can do that pretty well actually. Just I am not sure HE can. Not for a lack of interest, but sometimes it feels like it might be more challenging for him, not because of any performer-audience-nunsense, but because there might be actually too much interest, though I could be wrong about that,t oo, of course, and there is just no real interest in that either. 

Tr Pluto conjunct Moon, well it should be an interesting thing, of course it means that Tr Pluto will also square our composite Mars, (and our composite Mars is conjunct HIS natal Pluto, so I guess, its something that might trigger him more than me actually; just like back then when Tr Pluto was conjunct c-Venus and square c-Pluto, it was triggering me more I guess, because c-Venus opposes my natal Saturn; just in my case my natal Saturn was triggered, in my 8th house, and in his case his natal Pluto will be triggered, in the intercepted part of his 7th house)

But yeah on its own it does not look like the most mellow transit. And it`s not even the only one this year. I mean it coincides with Tr Saturn conjunct c-Venus, so actually it seems we are going to be triggered bnoth, just for him it is Tr Pluto basically just separating from a square with his natal Pluto, and for me it is Tr Saturn opposing natal Saturn. 

Cheers!

[lumina]

BTW pretty much the first song that ended on the podcast-playlist actually is the title "Run to you" by Whitney Houston. So your choice of word made me really giggle a little. Ava
I think I have never even listened to that song though, maybe I should. lol

[Ava]

Hi lumina,

I'm up early since my husband's work called on the phone just after 5 am. I'm not a morning person like this, for the record.

"But well whatever that really means with the progressed composite fullmoon, it should just "flow", either together or away from each other."

Interesting. Well cruising is like flowing...so he is literally physically flowing away at the moment. Though I'm sure this is not the end of the story.

"Must be the Venus-Neptune-conjunction in Sag. My Venus in Cap wouldn´t even really expect something like that, and honestly?
While on some level I would feel happy/ flattered, I think actually I wouldn´t even want that. or wouldn´t know what to do if that happened. lol"

Yeah I guess so, my Venus in Sag has some dauntless optimism. I think you could adjust if he ran to you, but if things make you feel weird, you can just leave. That's Sag (pronounced "sage") Venus advice. lol

"I do think that, while it sometimes sucks, esp. if he is being uncommunicative, he is doing the "right" thing. He has responsibilities for a family..."

Yawn.....

hehee just kidding. You're right. But I'm American and marriages are made to be ended here. Not mine (waving to my husband in case he's reading) but other people's. So, seeing broken families all around, I get to thinking most people don't really know what they're getting into with marriage and didn't belong together in the first place....so marriage just seems like a way to bind incompatible people for extra long.

Back on topic, moon-Pluto in composite seems conducive to a more natural bonding, which is what I like...and that's complex enough without the marriage even.

"BTW pretty much the first song that ended on the podcast-playlist actually is the title "Run to you" by Whitney Houston."

LOL...well my draco moon is conjunct his in Cancer, so I get it.

[lumina]

Hi Ava


"ell cruising is like flowing...so he is literally physically flowing away at the moment."
Yes, I have thought about that, too, how hilariously literal that is! Also just when he left for the cruise my Mars-Atropos conjunction becoming exact in the EVC.
On the other hand when he was doing this performance, inspired by my song-wish, Tr Atropos was on 26 Sag, on our composite Sun exact and it didn`t feel really separative.  



"Though I'm sure this is not the end of the story.
"
You know how they say, that if the end of a story is not happy, it`s not the end. lol 

Well I am living my life in chapters anyway. 


" I think you could adjust if he ran to you,"
haha, yes, I guess so, But well in a way this is well, quite "safe" for me. As things are and him at a bit of a distance, I wouldn´t have to seriously consider changing my life. and routine. And if he actually really ran to me, there would be huge changes afoot. and part of me, actually might prefer or at least feeling more comfortable with staying right in my comfort zone and I have excuse of "well it`s not my fault, He is the married one. "
But of course my Saturn secretly breathes out with relief, that we do not have to really let anyone into that 8th house part of our lives.  

[Deleted]

I had moon opposite pluto in a a composite with someone, it was part of a kite which also involved Neptune and Venus(neptune was in trine with venus and in trine with the moon).

When that ended it took me a long time to get over, best part of two years, not helped by them being constantly in my life. I'm someone who would normally have gotten over things relatively quickly, but that one, it took some time especially as it was relatively short. We also had some saturn going on there - basically his saturn making hard aspects to my moon, neptune and sun. I'm over it now and that person is still in my life but if i was asked to return to that. No thanks. When i look back i do actually think why it took a long time, because honestly i dont know. Perhaps it was the way it ended that was the cause. They are a nice person though. We both have the trine natally.

In terms of breakup Moon/pluto hard aspects for me means it can be hard to let go, its worst than saturn moon. Saturn-moon is more feeling inferior. Pluto for me is more glue than saturn. 

Pls dnt quote

[Ava]

Same for me vg, Pluto is more difficult than Saturn.

Saturn seems to let you engage with whatever the relationship is, on a conscious level. You can work with it, there are things to do and say, you can build with it. Meanwhile Pluto just haunts, stalks, doesn't even make sense, it's just pulsating in the dark no matter what you do.

[edgeoftheiris]

Moon/Pluto conjunction in the composite, in Scorpio. Moon is also exactly conjunct the IC, so this conjunction that is supposed to be so deep and emotionally close is right on the IC... What can I say, it's very deep. A soul binding aspect. Our paths went separate ways for several years and when we met again, it all hit back even stronger than before. And when? Right when he was starting to go through a transit Pluto conjunct his Moon... Then the eclipse of April 2023 which was on 29 Aries squared his Moon exactly, right when Pluto was in an exact conjunction. 

We both have Moon square Pluto in our natal charts, so this theme is significant. 

Attachments:

[Ava]

That's fascinating.

Are you two still together edgeoftheiris?

I wonder if moon-Pluto has a tendency to implode. One plus one equals three...the heaviness of the relationship is so much more than each person's individual heaviness.

[edgeoftheiris]

Oh, it's complicated. I was planning to make a separate post about it anyway. I actually used to be an active member in Lindaland at that time when I first met this person (2012-2014) and then something happened in that forum, and for some reason many active members left it. So now when I found this forum I realized that I recognize some of the members even though the nicknames are different so decided to register here because there is so much going on in the charts. 

Mar 2, 2024 13:40:48 GMT Ava said:

That's fascinating.

Are you two still together edgeoftheiris ?

I wonder if moon-Pluto has a tendency to implode. One plus one equals three...the heaviness of the relationship is so much more than each person's individual heaviness.