Natal vs. progressed Mercury

[Ava]

I wonder what the difference is?

Do people experience different types of thinking, where one is a kind of baseline set of habits and mental impulses (natal Mercury = "deep" Mercury) and the other reflects growth, things we've learned and adapted to, and possibly, circumstances outside of our control (this is the "think on your feet" Mercury?)

I assume the progressed Mercury is going to be more active and strongly aspected in life-changing situations, episodes that define the time frame. Pr Mercury shows our reigning mentality, most salient guiding principles within a certain time frame (?)

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Personal anecdotes...

I got married with pr Mercury Rx conjunct pr moon in Capricorn, opposing pr Saturn in Cancer. Our wedding was officiated by someone whose natal sun was conjunct my pr moon-Mercury, a leader I wished to emulate. My pr Mercury was still Rx though. A few years later, it stationed direct @ 23° Cap, where it remained for several years, exactly squaring my natal 9H Chiron (my mind was stuck processing my religious baggage). Pr Mercury was still @ 23 Cap when my father fell ill, squaring pr moon-Chiron @ 24 Aries. I spent that year wrestling with spiritual issues, with my pr Mercury almost at a standstill. It finally moved onto 24° Cap a few months after he died (2007).

My mind started picking up momentum after that. I was no longer mired in religious traditions or frozen in time, subscribing to ancient, draconian rules, if only subconsciously (I harbored guilt for not being able to believe certain things). Free of those shackles, I proceeded on to learn some other systems, though tentatively and carefully. It took me a long time to learn even rudimentary astrology, because I had to clear so many doubts (pr Cap Mercury still opposing pr Saturn). But the end result has been a rather unshakable faith in the reality of these phenomena. My "worldview" is more a Milky Way view. And not only that, but as my pr Mercury re-entered Aquarius, I was starting to see how much people really don't even know....starting to explore energy-intelligence, chakras, the knowing that goes beyond school-knowledge and mechanistic reality. 

All through my journey, however, the innate tendencies of Aqua Mercury were active and obvious. I was always trying to push against limits, never quite conforming, sometimes playing devil's advocate, if only to learn. Aqua Mercury can be insatiable and a little bit rogue, always the outsider, always trying to offer the outsider's perspective.

My pr Mercury will be exactly conjunct natal Mercury on July 6, 2020. My pr moon in Scorpio will be exactly conjunct natal Uranus and squaring this alignment. So that ought to be interesting. My pr sun @ 0 Pisces will be inconjunct pr Venus @ 0 Aqua, conjunct tr Saturn. 

The sun will be opposing my sun, and there will be a moon-Jupiter-Pluto conjunction @ 23 Cap that day. 

It's very interesting to me that when my progressed and natal Mercuries finally reunite, they do so with a potent stellium right on the degree where my pr Mercury spent the most time. As if all my learning @ 23 Cap will be called to mind again. 

Pls don't quote

[lumina]

Ava

interesting thought. Yes it sounds plausible to me. It is difficult to say for me, as my pr Mercury has been stationary last year and now turned retrograde, while holding an exact sextile to my natal Mercury. And Aqua and Sag are not that different anyway; natally my 3rd house has Aqua on the cusp. So it already is ingrained in my personality I suppose.

what I find interesting is certainly that this pr Mercury has been opposing my pr Vertex all year, and being squared by P`s pr Uranus (and somewhen in the last 2 years his pr Moon had been opposing his pr Uranus and making a Grand Cross with my pr Mercury-pr Vertex opposition. This has been in play for a long time, because Vertex just moves one degree per year and my Mercury, being stationary, was as slow as an outer planet. lol)

[lumina]

BTW I am actually curious what it will mean to have Mercury change direction in progression but the other way round, from direct to retro. I don`t feel like I am holding back my thoughts more, or am more reflective or something. Actually quite the opposite. weird.

[lumina]

Nov 29, 2018 15:38:07 GMT Ava said:

My pr Mercury will be exactly conjunct natal Mercury on July 6, 2020. My pr moon in Scorpio will be exactly conjunct natal Uranus and squaring this alignment. So that ought to be interesting. My pr sun @ 0 Pisces will be inconjunct pr Venus @ 0 Aqua, conjunct tr Saturn. 

This seems to me very powerful and significant. Does either your husband or H have planets (natal or progressed) making this a T-square? 

[12YearsABlob]

The timing is uncanny..! Since mercury is also how we go about the daily details of our lives, it makes sense that it would be involved with events that change your day-to-day, on a mundane level* as well as the mental upheaval you speak of. Mercury retrograde is given to deep self-reflection. You must have had to go back over a lot of what you used to think, but come back with the benefit of exceptional insight at the end. If you wrote anything during this time, I want to read it! Well, I already like your writing, but with the additional Merc Rx flavour, wow.

I'll check the timing for my major moves, and see if anything pops up. I think there might be something when it progressed to conjunct my MC(?) Right now, progressed Merc still in Sag, more prone to mouthing off, lol. Square Jupiter to boot, totally insufferable.......

-------------

* Although the "mundane" is not truly mundane either, it's a reflection of our life and times.

**P.S. I've been thinking about Merc Rx lately. Prompted by certain writers that have that distinctive style (that I LOVE), and was thrilled to discover they really do have mercury retrograde natally.

***P.P.S. When you mentioned that date in the future, I had a random thought about what it could be. Though it seems kinda far-fetched right now (not as much anymore, but still). Anyway, it might have something to do with another Scorp Uranus person, whose Uranus is involved with their NN.

[Ava]

Thanks 12YearsABlob -- all great points!

Nah, you're not insufferable, you're brilliant! I didn't know your pr Mercury was in Sag, squaring pr Jupiter. But natally you have the sextile...yeah, same here, I have a fortunate Mercury-Jupiter aspect natally (quintile) but those two were square by progression through some difficult years for me (a bout of postpartum depression, then my father's death, then postpartum depression the following year, major emotional sinkholes....fortunately those depressive states only lasted a few weeks at their worst, but I hit new depths of rock bottom.)

Anyway, I've been thinking of how our lives are mapped out for us, how these peak moments in progression represent landmarks that we seem to be stumbling towards in the dark.

"If you wrote anything during this time, I want to read it!"

Thank you

That's perceptive, I mean you saw into the heart of the matter, I was writing like my life or soul depended on it. There was one day that I locked myself up in my room and wrote all day, I just kept writing and thinking and digging and sorting things out...and I do wonder if this was the day my pr Mercury finally went direct again, revolving with all its weight towards a new future. That was how I deliberately cast off my religious shackles. One day in my room...me and a notebook. I do wonder if I have that lying around anywhere. Now I'd love to know the date of it, too! 'Might not be especially clever, but it was rooted in the best logic that I was capable of at the time. And it gave me a new mental "game plan."

Thanks for talking this out with me. I'm really interested in the topic so if you're inspired to look into the travels of your pr Mercury some more, I'm listening.

Pls don't quote


lumina - replied & deleted, hope you saw.

[12YearsABlob]

^ Yeah, that's merc rx alright - almost forces us to reflect and process in that manner. Interesting that it played out like that for you too, and the "results", if you will, came pouring out the day it turned direct.

I peeked ahead, and turns out I have to wait till I'm 41 for my retrograde wisdom teeth (which I am both dreading and looking forward to). Merc Rx *does* kinda feel like getting wisdom teeth, eh? Well, introspection is painful at the best of times, but the unflinching thoroughness of a retrograde mercury is something else. In your case, your whole belief system was "revised".

So far, I've only looked at progressions after it changed signs. Who knows, there might be something before then, maybe later... 

• I started college the year my Pr Merc moved into conjunction with natal MC.
  
• Transit Saturn on Pr Merc, both squaring n Venus-Jupiter marked the beginning of a long, difficult but necessary road. It was also my Jupiter return, so it was a time of mixed blessings.

Both examples are somewhat literal in the sense that Sag corresponds to higher education. I wouldn't say these progressions were simply about my formal education though. It was learning in every sense - and, yes, a mental overhaul each time - partly necessitated by the situations brought on by these transits & progressions.

I also unlearned a lot of things. Including grammar, apparently. 

[Ava]

LOL unlearning grammar...

Thanks for your reply, be back tomorrow.

[Next day edit]

12YearsABlob

I'm glad you're looking forward to pr Mercury Rx. In my case, I think it corrected some (not all) of the arrogance I had as a child; I think we talked about that before, how I thought I was such a kid genius. lol But that's specific to my Mercury in Aquarius and its aspects...I found schoolwork too easy. When my pr Mercury turned Rx, it coincided with a loss of actual vision, and I was ashamed of being imperfect (arrogance again) and wouldn't get glasses or let people know I couldn't see. I couldn't see the blackboard, my grades suffered, I was confused and having to think of myself differently. Introspective indeed. 

Anyway, I love how you describe your Mercury progression.

"Both examples are somewhat literal in the sense that Sag corresponds to higher education. I wouldn't say these progressions were simply about my formal education though. It was learning in every sense - and, yes, a mental overhaul each time - partly necessitated by the situations brought on by these transits & progressions."

Also you are really FUNNY...a Sag Mercury trait....do you think that became more highly developed or more important to you, when pr Mercury entered Sag? (Not to put you too much on the spot....but Scorpio Mercury and Sag Mercury can be so different).

[lumina]

I might have mentioned it a dozen times (and getting on people`s nerve`s with it), but when pr Mercury was conjunct my pr Venus and pr Antivertex and natal Moon exact, I first met P. 

Well pr Mercury had been conjunct my pr Antivertex these last 2 years again, but nowwhere near my Moon (conjunct my n Psyche though, our composite Psyche-Antivertex and sextile my n Sun-Mercury). 

Now that it turned retro it will head back towards my Moon - of course my pr Venus has separated from that long ago, so there certainly won´t be a repetition of that triple conjunction. However still interesting to see how it will be having pr Mercury conjunct my n Moon again (Mercury is also my DESC-ruler).


But this will happen a long time into the future - pr Mercury is of course still so slow, and just sort of stuck to this place at around 25 Aquarius, like it has been for years. 

but anyway when it happens it will accompanied and framed by some interesting aspects: 


march/april 2025: pr Sun conjunct n Moon PLUS pr Moon conjunct n Sun (how is that for an alignment? )

february 2027: pr Mercury conjunct pr Sun, but looking a bit difficult with pr Mars opposing pr Saturn, pr Venus conjunct my n Jupiter, but also squaring pr Neptune; and applying aspects (just outside 1 degree) of pr Venus trine pr Saturn and sextile pr Mars - not exactly sure what it means that pr Venus seems to harmonize that opposition, pr Neptune in an applying trine to pr Juno, which probably fits as my natal Juno is in Pisces.

august 2027: pr Mercury conjunct n Moon 

june 2029: pr Moon conjunct pr Mercury
july 2029: pr Moon conjunct n Moon 
dec 2029: pr Moon conjunct pr Sun exact (21°51 Aqua), pr ASC on 29 Aqua, pr MC on 00 Sag


Well It`s a long time until then, but looking interesting. 


-well for the nearer future I am looking forward to pr Lilith meeting my pr Sun in mid-june 2019, 

accompanied by

pr Moon conjunct pr Pluto 
pr DESC conjunct n Saturn (just having entered the same degree, but still good 55 minutes away from exactness)
pr Venus separating from the trine to n Uranus and applying to trine pr Uranus
pr NN having come nto 1 degree conjunction and applying to n ASC

[12YearsABlob]

That story makes me really sad. Hard enough to go through that, but to also feel like you have to do it entirely on your own? Too much of a burden for a child.

Nov 30, 2018 3:18:12 GMT Ava said:

12YearsABlob
Also you are really FUNNY...a Sag Mercury trait....do you think that became more highly developed or more important to you, when pr Mercury entered Sag? (Not to put you too much on the spot....but Scorpio Mercury and Sag Mercury can be so different).

Hehe, thank you! Yeah, it did become important to me, to try to have that perspective. More so, as I get older. Glad to hear that sometimes it lands.

You're right, it seems like different aspects of natal planets are highlighted and/or developed by progression. Like Libras learn to put their foot down when their Sun progresses into Scorpio. Well, at least they realize they should. "You need remedial Algebra, buckle up."

Sag has an outward thrust, so it's more obvious to other people I suppose. So, even though I'll always have Scorp mercury thoughts, they're given a Jupiter spin before being put out in the world. Like a remix..!

[Ava]

Thanks 12YearsABlob...well that didn't really occur to me, to even seek help. But that could also be a function of the initial Rx period, especially since I was so young: there was a sense of confusion about how life works.

I was laughing at your remix comment and thanks for the insight about the Libra sun progressing into Scorpio. My family is loaded with Libras and this explains some things.

lumina

I appreciate that detailed list there, it really is interesting to me, to consider where things are headed, in advance (both of us with futuristic pr Mercury in Aquarius now!)

And you can repeat that phenomenal fact all you like..."when pr Mercury was conjunct my pr Venus and pr Antivertex and natal Moon exact, I first met P. "...it doesn't get on my nerves! It's amazing.

"march/april 2025: pr Sun conjunct n Moon PLUS pr Moon conjunct n Sun (how is that for an alignment? )"

Awesome

"dec 2029: pr Moon conjunct pr Sun exact (21°51 Aqua)"

I'm curious about where that lands in the draco chart?

Around my birthday in 2030 I'll have a pr new moon @ 10° Pisces. The draco pr sun-moon @ 25° Cancer conjunct pr tropical Saturn @ 26 Cancer. Nearby is my natal draco moon @ 28 Cancer.

Why do I have so much to do with that area of the zodiac?

Especially with draconic? No one in my family has their sun near the Cancer-Leo cusp. Mmm, just a mystery....

[Ava]

Looking ahead I see that I'll have pr Mercury conjunct pr moon in 2027, squaring my pr NN within a degree.

Wow that's a destination point I wasn't expecting.

Not looking forward to that, either.

[anela]

I think my progressed mercury is still in gemini, but I'm not sure. Natal is Aries. Either way, I'm practically satan to half the astrology folks out there, thanks to either of them, plus my natal aries and gemini placements.

I have progressed moon and saturn opposing each other. Mercury 23 gemini. Venus 20 cancer. Mars 5 Aries, about to conjoin Jupiter, and oppose Pluto. :/ Umm.

[anela]

I can only think of the fact that I overthink, and babble. I think I'm a bit better with not posting so many long venting posts, but only because I'm apathetic, and I just don't want to talk about much.

I have my dad talk to people like the vet, because I go into long detailed explanations and histories, and she just wants me to get to the point. Which dad is good with. I used to write detailed histories for new vets, only for them to skim and not really care. the vet tech at one place was lovely, and said my notes were great.

[Ava]

Nov 29, 2018 15:38:07 GMT Ava said:

My pr Mercury will be exactly conjunct natal Mercury on July 6, 2020. My pr moon in Scorpio will be exactly conjunct natal Uranus and squaring this alignment. So that ought to be interesting. My pr sun @ 0 Pisces will be inconjunct pr Venus @ 0 Aqua, conjunct tr Saturn. 

God I was miserable. 2020 was brutal for everyone, but I had just lost my young niece at the end of 2019.

I just remember being sad to the point of not even being able to stay awake for much of that year, though I was still working part-time and that helped keep me going.

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I probably said this elsewhere and forgot but while studying my astro situation for the upcoming year I realized that my pr Mercury will leave shadow for the first time in my life while the sun is transiting exactly on my natal Mercury, opposing the full moon at 5 Leo, on Jan 25, 2024.

I just adore neat coincidences like that.

As my pr Mercury picks up speed I've been forcing myself to learn how to type faster and also to keep pace with my own thoughts. Usually my mind gives me instructions I don't quite understand, like "Run the dishwasher before you leave," and the other part of my brain asks "why?" because it's not obvious and clear to me why I should.

Just lately I have been able to keep up with that inner voice...I ask "why?," and my brain quickly comes back with, "You're planning to shower after your walk and you want the dishwasher cycle to be over so you have enough hot water." It sounds pathetic, but my brain hasn't always worked this way. I really hope pr Mercury out of shadow will bless me with some reasoning skills that I've been lacking.

[lumina]

Ava

interesting question, but I feel I can`t answer it.

My pr Mercury entered Aquarius in 1996, then got retrograde in february 2018 on 25 Aqua, and now moving slowly backwards, I mean really slow, then will get direct again in summer 2039 (on 9°57 o4 9°58 Aqua, exact on my natal Pallas) and exit Aqua in february 2063, so I just don`t really quite remember anything but Aqua-Mercury I think. It`s apparently dominating my whole life, since my mid 20s.

[lumina]

I did not even realize this was an older thread I had already commented on, how`s that for retro Mercury? lol

[Ava]

Dec 5, 2023 12:17:26 GMT lumina said:

then will get direct again in summer 2039 (on 9°57 o4 9°58 Aqua, exact on my natal Pallas) and exit Aqua in february 2063, so I just don`t really quite remember anything but Aqua-Mercury I think. It`s apparently dominating my whole life, since my mid 20s.

That's funny...I'm about a year younger than you. So Mercury must have stationed at the exact same degree, 9 Aqua, two years in a row. It was SD after you were born and SR after I was born.

As we were saying recently, our pr Mercuries will be conjunct in 2029. Remarkably, we will both be on the verge of a progressed new moon that same year, both perfecting around the start of 2030.

Also my SR for 2030 has the NN right on your sun-Mercury and the moon conjunct Mars on your moon. LOL

Oh well, I might talk to you too much, but my SR has sun conjunct Venus so I'll try to be pleasant at least.

[Ava]

Afterthought, lumina --

You know what else is cool, my pr new moon @ 10 Pisces will square your nodal axis, and your pr new moon in Aqua will square mine, simultaneously.

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Second afterthought

I think Aqua Mercury isn't just experimental by nature but also exploratory, reaching out into new frontiers, and of course astrology provides scope or a framework for limitless investigations....

The data and numbers are important in this phase but also there's an inventiveness, a desire to see if any new methods might prove useful. I waste a lot of time tinkering with charts. But it's what I want to do.

I wonder how my interest in astrology or other divination arts will change once my pr Mercury moves into Pisces in 2038.

Most (not all) of the people I know with natal Mercury in Pisces believe in astrology but I think it's more secondary to them, because their regular intuition is so strong, other data is of secondary importance. My best friend with sun-Mercury in Pisces knows when her mother is about to show up unexpectedly at her house, not because she's reading charts, but because she just knows.

There's also the issue of speed with pr Mercury:
astrogarden.proboards.com/thread/1579/speed-mercury-communication-synastry

My pr Mercury will be conjunct natal moon @ 18 Pisces in 2049, at a speed of 1°47'...pretty fast! By the time it enters Aries when I'm about 80 years old, it will be zipping along at 1°55', almost double my natal speed.

Anyway so it will have taken my Mercury over 60 years to move from Aqua to Pisces, then only 20 years to move from Pisces to Aries. My pr sun will already be in Aries, squaring Mars. I am going to speak my mind for sure at the nursing home. Don't give me any food that's too chewy, I will call you out and tell your superiors.