Aspect patterns

[Deleted]

I'd like to learn more about aspect patterns. T-square, YOD, etc. 

I'm not interested in how to identify them though if you want to I'm not going to say "no". 

I'm interested in the interpretation of them. How they behave. How the planets function within the pattern such as being the apex planet in certain patterns, etc. 

There's websites but I have a hard time reading through it. It's overwhelming. 

[Ava]

With both the yod and t-square, the apex planet takes on added significance in the person's life.

The yod has a sharper focus on the apex, geometrically, plus it's supported by a happy sextile at the base. Overall it looks more potent and potentially beneficial than the t-square.

So for example I have my moon (apex) in a t-square with Mars and Neptune. Because Mars and Neptune oppose each other, there are negative issues like blurry or morphing desire nature, projecting or being projected-upon, lack of clarity and motivation to act. My moon rests on top of that foundation of tension and needs to overcome, manage, and diffuse those Mars-Neptune issues.

If the same three planets formed a yod with the moon at the apex, Mars and Neptune would be sextile, and cooperating: I'd have more practical desires; more functional intuition. My moon could draw from that base and my emotional reflexes would be more refined. I'm guessing self-awareness would come more easily. On the other hand, the moon wouldn't be exactly comfortable receiving two quincunx aspects and therefore may be felt as more high strung. I think I'd have greater knowledge and a greater sense of responsibility concerning every choice.

I do feel the apex of a yod will function more prominently in a person's life, in synastry and transits, than the apex of a t-square. The t-square apex is heavily afflicted and struggling to overcome, while the yod apex has a head start and can be very particular or fussy about its needs. It's like the difference between someone who is naturally slow but needs to learn to move fast (t-square) and someone who is naturally fast but needs to acclimate to life that way.

As always, just tossing ideas out there....

Ceri will correct me if I'm wrong, I think. (I hope. )

[Deleted]

I would disagree in relation to "potency" of Apex planet. They are focal planet and very potent, no matter what aspect-Family is underlying.

the difference is not so much in potency but in the Kind of aspect. And here I would mainly agree with Faith, of course an Opposition as base brings in more Tension than a sextile.

however a Yod is not completely positive/ smooth either, due to the quinkunxes to the Apex planet, there will certain adjustments take place, as you said.

Also the Apex planet of a T-square will Feature just as prominently in synastry and predictive Charts. However it depends a Little how People deal with the energies of the 4th harmonics (square-Family). Personally I find T-squares actualyl quite stimulating, moving, dynamic and creative, even if sometimes a Little crazy as well. The Yod I experience as "calmer" (at least on the surface, there is a lot going on underneath though)

Other than that great Analysis!

[Deleted]

Still thinking about these and may come back later.

[Ava]

Feb 17, 2017 6:24:51 GMT @ceri said:

I would disagree in relation to "potency" of Apex planet. They are focal planet and very potent, no matter what aspect-Family is underlying.

the difference is not so much in potency but in the Kind of aspect. And here I would mainly agree with Faith, of course an Opposition as base brings in more Tension than a sextile.

however a Yod is not completely positive/ smooth either, due to the quinkunxes to the Apex planet, there will certain adjustments take place, as you said.

Also the Apex planet of a T-square will Feature just as prominently in synastry and predictive Charts. However it depends a Little how People deal with the energies of the 4th harmonics (square-Family). Personally I find T-squares actualyl quite stimulating, moving, dynamic and creative, even if sometimes a Little crazy as well. The Yod I experience as "calmer" (at least on the surface, there is a lot going on underneath though)

Other than that great Analysis!

Thanks for answering, Ceri.  

I guess I'm thinking of the tighter orbs needed to make a yod. Astrotheme gives 2.2° orb for a quincunx and 7.5° for a square. 

www.astrotheme.com/astrology_aspects.php

While t-squares may be exact, it's more common to see wider orbs.  

On the other hand, yods must always be pretty exact, and the apex planet is more likely to fall on the midpoint of the base planets. 

So in my t-square example above, I have:

12 Sag Neptune
18 Pisces moon
16 Gemini Mars

The moon is approximately 4° off the Mars-Neptune midpoint @ 14 Virgo/Pisces.

If that were a yod, the apex planet couldn't be off the midpoint more than 2.2°. 

The yod just seems more focused.

Edit: Do we REALLY need each post to inform you that I edited? So much for appearing prepared and stuff. 

[Deleted]

I agree with you on the tightness of orbs. However if the t square is tight orbed and resulting in a midpoint picture the Apex planet is just as potent


You can Look at my synastry game thread and the synastry tsquare there
It is very close from 9-11 degree of mutable signs. And I think the Apex conjunction is very apparent
Even our first Meeting charts ascendant falls right there in 9-10 sag.

Of course for hin it is also the Apex for his yod with his chiron-atropos. And a leg for the synastric yod with his chiron

[Deleted]

Thanks for this! I too wonder about aspect patterns.

I think the square by itself is a more potent aspect (energetically). i.e., might generate more *buzz* than a quincunx? I've thought of the quincunx as something involving conscious adjustments, whereas the squares simply demand attention.
So the T-square might have a lot more energy, but it might be exhausting internally, to the native. The Yod, depending on the conscious choices and adjustments the native makes, will propel it's energy outward in a purposeful thrust.

I am also fascinated by the bucket, Thor's hammer and all those fancy patterns. Also, do the closed-circuit ones indicate more internal work/friction/harmony (such as a grand square or mystic rectangle or grand trine) that is not readily apparent? Or will there be some symptoms outwardly visible? Such as grant trine folks seeming more laid-back/easy-going/at-peace-with-themselves/slightly-complacent? 

[whisperix]

For me the T-square manifests more like: I need, want and will "climb the mountain" with the feeling of satisfaction to be on the top.
The quincux manifests more: I need, although I do not want to, "climb the mountain" with the feeling of "What was that for?"

[Ava]

Feb 18, 2017 8:05:17 GMT @ceri said:

I agree with you on the tightness of orbs. However if the t square is tight orbed and resulting in a midpoint picture the Apex planet is just as potent


You can Look at my synastry game thread and the synastry tsquare there
It is very close from 9-11 degree of mutable signs. And I think the Apex conjunction is very apparent
Even our first Meeting charts ascendant falls right there in 9-10 sag.

Of course for hin it is also the Apex for his yod with his chiron-atropos. And a leg for the synastric yod with his chiron

I suppose I'm stuck on the rarity of yods, and their visual appearance, and the fact that they are Fingers of God...

They just seem more special to me. You understand? I want them to be special.

Wikipedia

Astrology explains that raised or multi-aspected planets within the Yod can produce unusual situations and personalities, and should therefore be carefully examined. One possible approach is for an individual to view the yod as an exchange of positive forces around a mediating middle (though oppositional) planet. The quincunxed planet will act as a conduit of energy, or as a profound and deeply felt block. This aspect can produce a heightened direction of energy in the chart which may also oscillate between bifurcated states or situated personalities. A planetary opposition to the quincunxed planet of the Yod can be malefic, or can produce situations of dramatic reversal.
 
So, it's like a booby trap....transiting planets wander into an opposition with the yod apex and something dramatic happens? Or if you have a natal planet opposing the composite yod's apex, your planet is sorta doomed? 

Seems like a more acute and negative experience than the pattern completion of t-squares into grand crosses. Or maybe I just think that because I have three t-squares, and experience pattern completion all the time, and it's usually no big deal. (At least not to me. Maybe the planet person walks away from me disturbed and wondering what the heck just happened. LOL)

Wish we had completed research at our fingertips, times like these. 

[Violets]

"They just seem more special to me. You understand? I want them to be special."

That did make me laugh.

Since I have a Yod as well as a tight T-square, I think they're both pretty prominent in my life. HOWever... My Yod is far more enjoyable for me, and I derive a great deal of enjoyment when I'm acting on it.

My T-square... I think I've mostly tried to ignore it, lol. Until recently, as it's been hit by numerous outer planets and activated in a way that is more helpful than usual.

[Ava]

Feb 20, 2017 6:02:57 GMT @icequeen said:

Thanks for this! I too wonder about aspect patterns.

I think the square by itself is a more potent aspect (energetically). i.e., might generate more *buzz* than a quincunx? I've thought of the quincunx as something involving conscious adjustments, whereas the squares simply demand attention.
So the T-square might have a lot more energy, but it might be exhausting internally, to the native. The Yod, depending on the conscious choices and adjustments the native makes, will propel it's energy outward in a purposeful thrust.

I am also fascinated by the bucket, Thor's hammer and all those fancy patterns. Also, do the closed-circuit ones indicate more internal work/friction/harmony (such as a grand square or mystic rectangle or grand trine) that is not readily apparent? Or will there be some symptoms outwardly visible? Such as grant trine folks seeming more laid-back/easy-going/at-peace-with-themselves/slightly-complacent? 

Brilliant observation about the yod and t-square! Does anyone here have a yod? I think you said you do, whisperix ? Does IceQueen's description seem true to you?

I can vouch for the t-squares being exhausting! 

And I do think these patterns are outwardly apparent. 

My son with a kite is definitely "more laid-back/easy-going/at-peace-with-themselves/slightly-complacent" than my son with a grand cross. 

My chart is a complicated mess but one of the more salient features is the sun-Mars-Pluto Pythagorean Triangle. (Sun quincunx Mars; Mars trine Pluto; Pluto square sun.) Any time I have gotten into a serious argument I feel like I summon this energy and have to modulate it carefully. I feel this aspect is so obvious that even when I say mild things, people take me for a fire-breathing dragon, so it takes a lot of conscious effort to appear strong and not just brutish. This last LL debacle stands as a reminder to me that I still have to get stronger in discernment.

I have more to say...be back later.

[Ava]

Violets

heheheh

I know your t-square, but where is your yod? Can you talk about it please? I'm yod curious.

[Violets]

I have a Yod, my husband has one, so does my dad, as well as my brother. Those are the people I can think of off the top of my head.

[Violets]

Feb 20, 2017 15:38:13 GMT Ava said:

Violets

heheheh

I know your t-square, but where is your yod? Can you talk about it please? I'm yod curious.

Lol. This is why you NEED a Facebook account.  
Okay, I'll leave that one alone.

Yeah, I have Saturn at the apex in my 11th house, with Neptune and Mercury at the base from 5th and 6th (the beginning of 5th and at my Dsc).

This has manifested in working in helping fields and being very dedicated to social causes. My Saturn is in Cancer, Neptune of course in Sag, and Mercury in Aquarius. So all planets and house placements sort of automatically feed into me working in these fields (in addition to having my Mars in 6th).

I <3 my Yod.
The T-square...it's a challenge I will dutifully accept, as it involves my NN, but it hasn't made life easy by any stretch.

[Violets]

Oh no, I don't think there's any way to go back and unquote someone on here, is there? Sorry, I get a little quote happy sometimes. :/

[Violets]

Now that I think on it...without the struggles I've had in life due to my T-square, I may not have had the empathy or insight needed to really live my Yod to it's best purpose. So that's an interesting thought.

[Deleted]

Hmm, I don`t think the Yod is any more rare or more "special" than any other aspect pattern (if we use the same orb at least, we tend to give more leeway to the 4th harmonic aspect, that is the only reason they seem to be more frequent, but relative to the orb they actually aren`t).

There is nothing divine about the Yod either, it`s just a name some esoteric inclined astrologers invented.
When it comes down to the essence, each aspect pattern is just a midpoint pattern, no matter if it is a Grand Trine, Grand Cross, T-square, Finger of God, Kite or Fist of God (I have one of these btw).


While neither is more potent or important than the other they are of course having different characteristics, which has to do with the harmonic family they consist of.

The T-square belongs to the 4th harmonic family, the Yod to the 12th harmonic family.

In fact the Quinkunx is not even an aspect, traditionally speaking. the quinkunx as well as the semisextile were termed "inconjunct" to describe the condition that signs connected through a quinkunx or semisextile did not have any common basis, they were dis-juncted, dis-connected.


This is also the reason the quinkunx asks for adjustments cause we have to learn to get along with something that is total foreign to us, like exploring a total different world.


The specialty of the Yod is that it connects four signs with each other (the Boomerang Yod, therefor four), which have NOTHING in common, but because of that cover EVERY element and mode.

for example a Boomerang Yod could consist between

Sagittarius - Aquarius - Cancer - Capricorn

Here we have all modalities, with an emphasis on the modality of the Apex planet, and we have all elements together.
It makes for a certain fluidity, the person in question can use all modes of expression for different planets, which also means there has to be adjustments for the other planets.

In case of the T-square for example, we might have different elements, but the modes are the same. There is the same mode of expression and little wiggle room. it`s like constantly locking horns and can be very stubborn or single-minded. Like there is this one and only purpose and way of living and no alternative, while the Yod is emphasizing seeking other ways, alternating between them (hence the relation to humour in the quinkunxes, sometimes that is the only way to endure all this).




Hmm, I don`t have a Yod in my natal but I just realized a while ago, that I have quite some Yods in the synastry and composite with P.
I do like Yods, yes they do feel special to me (but not more potent or important than T-squares, just different in expression, for once they are not so loud, but endlessly nagging, they will get their way and if it takes several years to get there).

I also have some Yods with my best friend. For example the area of around 17-20 Virgo is a hot spot for Yods for me, because I have Moon at 17 Aqua, Chiron at 20 Aries, Saturn at 17 Cancer and Juno at 17 Pisces.


Another hot spot would be around 25 Cancer-Capricorn (which suddenly makes quite some sense. lol), with my Sun-Mercury on 25 SAg and BML on 24 Aqua; I guess if someone had something around 25 Virgo-Pisces that would tie into this as well, provided they had something around 25 Cancer as well. Hmm, interesting though actually.

[Deleted]

Feb 20, 2017 15:45:49 GMT Violets said:

Oh no, I don't think there's any way to go back and unquote someone on here, is there? Sorry, I get a little quote happy sometimes. :/

quote-happy!

insert quote here

[Violets]

@ceri , I have Mars at 26 Cap, and Jupiter at 25 Pisces. Eh...? And there's Circe at 25 Cap.

I also agree that Yods are not necessarily rare, as I know quite a few people who have them (but most are parents/siblings, spouse, etc), but for me personally, mine is far easier to deal with than my T-square, which has mostly been a gigantic pain...but, perhaps like the Yod, when we do get around to accepting the challenge of a T-square, maybe it then can become as enjoyable as my Yod is for me. I guess mine was maybe not as challenging to deal with, or came naturally due to other complimentary placements/aspects.

[Deleted]

Violets

I agree with you. I also think it depends on WHAT planets are making a certain pattern.

For example the synastric T-square of Jupiter-Ceres-Eros// Mars-Jupiter-Amor//Mercury-Neptune-NN-ASC does not really feel all that harsh, possibly the most challenging in this being my Neptune due to its avoidance pattern.

Well I think that these ARE the issue-aspect with that, Neptune-Mars and Neptune-Mercury, but other than that Jupiter can deal with almost any other planet (except maybe Saturn in challenging aspects), and Mercury-Jupiter is a complementary pairing anyway.

This is different than other T-squares I guess.