Abusive behaviors in charts

[sroo]

I have been in a long process of disentangling from a subtly violent relationship. I say "violent" because that is what the social service counsellor calls it when there is control in the form of emotional abuse. I need to still be in contact with the person due to our kids and have gotten help from the social services to process.

I find things confusing looking at his chart. Supposedly my mars ln Aries should be in good aspect to his mars and Venus in Aries. The sun, mercury and Chiron in cancer would, I would assume be a warm and sensitive individual. My virgo Venus and his virgo moon should be a lovely combo of mutuality. We both have Jupiter in Gemini which could be good.

The type of way he broke me down was to look innocent and smiling while criticizing how I was, who I was, how I walked and talked, what hobbies I had. But as it was under the guise of joking and innocent fun, whenever I didn't go along with it he blamed me for being negative and a bad girlfriend that never appreciated him as he was. It was enough to not laugh to set this off. It screwed with my sense of reality to the degree of severe confusion. I knew that my opinions were never valid and if I didn't behave there was something wrong with me.

I wonder if there is a way to understand this need to laugh at someone else's expense from a chart? Unfortunately he has started to do the same thing to our youngest daughter, who resemble me most in personality. So he seems to have such a need to project blame while being jovial and jokey. Especially to people who are not as jokey as he is. The daughter is quite individual (Aquarius sun, taurus moon) and wants to be her own person which sets this off.

I'm looking at his chart and I'm wondering if the Saturn opposing his sun could be about this outward projection of blame? Both Neptune and Saturn are opposing sun mercury and Chiron.

Of note, there is also Pluto square Venus and and mars. This might be the accusations that come so unhindered? But I've a hard time seeing Pluto bring laughing at people's expenses like that.

His self image is an optimistic, social and direct person.

I'm still trying to sort things out and trying to see his chart clearly. It often helps me process to read things through the astrology chart.

And I sincerely don't want anyone to feel sad about any of these aspects if you have them.

[Ava]

I'm having trouble placing these charts in time sroo.

"Of note, there is also Pluto square Venus and and mars."

Quincunx? Opposing?

[t5]

This is an often seen synastry issue ... when an outer planet of person A makes a difficult aspect to an inner planet of person B.

It arises if the outer planet person was made uncomfortable in childhood ... by an adult/authority figure who disapproved of his/her natural expression of the outer planet quality.

When the child then becomes an adult, he/she will be uncomfortable with anyone whose behaviour/personality reminds him or her of the disapproving adult from his childhood.

So ... he/she will do whatever it takes to prevent the other person from behaving in a way that subconsciously reminds him/her of that painful childhood experience.

[sroo]

@ava absolutely, it's messy. And I see now my writing mistakes.

Here is the link to the person's natal ibb.co/G5T1w0N

t5 As I see him projecting things of a similar nature on one of the children, I would think it's something to do with his chart.

When I look at his natal, I believe I must have been placed in those Saturn, Uranus and Neptune cluster with some trigger there for him. Not sure what the trigger would be, if it was the Pluto square.

[t5]

sroo ... I cannot see the chart at your posted link, but this will indeed be an issue of his rather than you or your daughter.

How it manifests specifically will depend upon the synastry planets and aspects involved ... So, I shall expand upon that when able to see the charts.

[sroo]

Oct 31, 2021 8:24:17 GMT t5 said:

sroo ... I cannot see the chart at your posted link, but this will indeed be an issue of his rather than you or your daughter.

How it manifests specifically will depend upon the synastry planets and aspects involved ... So, I shall expand upon that when able to see the charts.

I will Link the image here:
 
I se it to 30 % of original size, I hope it works.

[t5]

I still cannot link to the chart image sroo ... Are you able to provide the link from the ibb hosting site?

sroo ... EDIT ... When linking to ibb.co ... My browser warns against continuing ... Are you meaning to link to imgbb.com rather than ibb.co?

[Ava]

I can copy/post from imgur if you want, sroo .

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I think part of this guy's problem is, his sun's strongest aspect is the trine to Pluto, so he may find it easy and natural to "dispense" with Plutonian energy. His Pluto square Mars creates susceptibility to excess internal strain or tension. Because Mars is conjunct Venus, both square Pluto, there may be a fine line between love and hate for him sometimes. He might feel love through sympathy: his Venus has always had to bear witness to the "battle" between his Mars and Pluto, so he relates to others who are likewise embattled. Because his sun doesn't receive any strong aspects, his self-awareness could be low, and perhaps he doesn't realize he's the one inflicting pain so he can be the comforter (Virgo moon), or the one "helping" to laugh it off (Virgo moon square Gem Jupiter).

The fact that his moon and Jupiter aspect his nodes brings this even more to the forefront. Uranus ruling his NN, Cap Uranus on the 5H cusp could bring some hard surprises to the children. He probably tells himself this is for their own good, he's just being a disciplinarian, but his tactics could be too obscure (Uranian) to be effective, also possibly just downright unfeeling (Cap planets oppose Cancer Mercury-Chiron).

[t5]

(I can now see the posted chart.)

Ava points out that "perhaps he doesn't realize he's the one inflicting pain", and that this might be caused by an unfeeling Uranus in Capricorn.

Since Uranus is also retrograde, and making a within-1degree-orb trine to his perfectionist-Virgo Ascendant ...... my guess is that it is synastry aspects to this planet which are at the root (astrologically) of the mental-cruelty/emotional abuse issue ... which is apparent to others, but not to him.

So sroo ... do any of the inner planets of you and your daughter make difficult aspects to his natal 2Cap46 Uranus?

[Ava]

Thanks t5

My observation there about inflicting pain emerged from seeing Venus tied to a Mars-Pluto square. I do think the Cap Uranus is problematic in this chart, but I just wanted to clarify that I think Venus-Mars square Pluto is the root issue. I doubt there'd be any sense of sheer malice without that energy. Those who can master a Mars-Pluto square have tremendous potential and abilities, but those who can't may sometimes brandish about a really nasty energy...I believe most astrologers seeing his chart would zero in on that one immediately.

Looks like his Venus-Mars is on or near the moon-Jupiter midpoint...Virgo moon is critical in its negative manifestation, Gem Jupiter in the negative can put too much emphasis on semantics or overstress a trivial point, so that square has the potential to magnify criticism.

Yet apparently he sees himself as jovial and easygoing, which could be part of his feedback loop with the public, being graced with Mercury as chart ruler sextile to the ASC, and Uranus trine the ASC. He would have smoothness and some intellectual advantages. He probably feels balanced when he's presenting himself, because his ASC "mediates" that opposition via harmonious aspects.

Generally speaking he could get stuck on egotism (Leo SN sextile Jupiter) before moving on to social responsibility (Aqua NN trine Jupiter). Separation could be part of his growth pattern since issues like custody involve the court system (usually) and therefore tie into broader social issues (Aqua). Because his SN is disposited by a sun in Cancer, and his NN by Uranus in Cap, it seems he could have been subconsciously driving himself out of his home (Cancer realm) and pitching heavily towards Cap Uranus, which just looks a bit overworked here.

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I start reading charts and they pull me in but this is ultimately just guesswork.

[t5]

The type of way he broke me down was to look innocent and smiling while criticizing how I was, who I was, how I walked and talked, what hobbies I had. But as it was under the guise of joking and innocent fun, whenever I didn't go along with it he blamed me for being negative and a bad girlfriend that never appreciated him as he was. It was enough to not laugh to set this off. It screwed with my sense of reality to the degree of severe confusion. I knew that my opinions were never valid and if I didn't behave there was something wrong with me.

I wonder if there is a way to understand this need to laugh at someone else's expense from a chart?

I am wondering if the above is a manifestation of Uranus, but agree that most astrologers would zero in on the Pluto (and Saturn) "controlling" aspects. ... My gut feeling is that the real issue revolves around his perceived uniqueness/"Mercurial sense of humour" not being appreciated when he was a child.

However, this will not be the case if sroo and their daughter have no inner planets making difficult aspects to his Uranus.

[t5]

sroo and Ava ... Note that the 165 "degree of obsession" for his Uranus is at 17Gemini45.53 and 17Cancer45.53 - and his natal Sun is at 17Cancer05.35. So, his caring-Cancer Sun will always have been battling with his afraid-of-appearing-weak Capricorn Uranus ... with his Chiron-wounded/Jupiter-exacerbated Mercury sense of humour (located at the top/most-visible area of his chart) providing a mechanism for masking his true self.

But, how that manifests in his interactions with others will depend upon the nature + sign + house of any planets in the other person's chart which activate his natal Uranus-Sun 165 aspect.

[Ava]

Brilliant t5, thank you.

[sroo]

Oh dear, the image on 30 % became very small on a mobile device. Good tip about imgur. 

t5 and @ava 

@ava I joy in that you bring in the trinal energy as a conduit of less resistance. It is food for thought. As for love/hate... quite indifferent nature, so no real drive to find love. We tried to find things in his childhood or traumatic events but he couldn't find any, so maybe the trines to his sun more gave the worldview that everything is fine, but then buried in the subconscious (12th) is this mars/venus theme receiving the square from pluto. I also see that the 12th is the place where we might be more susceptible to internalize (or just pick up on if we are aware) collective unconscious themes from family or upbringing/karmic. It would not be surprising if he lives out a male/female dynamic that iss trying to get healed. When he lives out this persona, his family can be relieved of this energy for the time being. The moon square jupiter is quite the interesting aspect there, I had to read up on it and there seems to be a theme of living in one's own emotionality and refusing the intellect somehow, and to grow up.

"He probably tells himself this is for their own good"

haha yeah, they aren't allowed to cry in their house and doesn't want him to know they have cried at my house.

Feed-back loop to the public, he always was much better than me with influencing the public, getting jobs and everyone laughing in the room. He was the balanced one, in his eyes, so these positive aspects would enhance these... It's so interesting.

He has grown tremendously after we divorced and he had to take care of the children without my help. Lots of maturing, but yeah, he moved to my country when we met - that's a big move out of the home and it overwhelmed him.

t5 Mm, that makes sense about Uranus bringing in the unfeeling side. My pisces moon always felt he was sensitive somehow, but it deluded me.

"My gut feeling is that the real issue revolves around his perceived uniqueness/"Mercurial sense of humour" not being appreciated when he was a child."

It can very well be so. All their family has rather harsh jokes and they make fun of eachother and their flaws. He had sexist jokes when we met and on the whole verges on quite some misogynistic humour (that's what she said style), jokingly smack me or hold things out of reach. Maybe his individuality somehow wasn't valued or protected enough. Very fused with his family though, no ill feelings there.

I am only born 8 months earlier so many of the slow moving planets are close to his (pluto conj pluto, neptune conj neptune, chiron conj chiron for example).


For the personal planets, for the Uranus, it squares my mars. For my daughter no challenging aspect there.

But if the mars square pluto is more significant, there I can only find my own pluto also making the same square. No personal planet involved.
For the daughter, it is more obvious, her mercury square his pluto and is opposing his venus/mars. Her own pluto opposing his sun. She is a rather sensitive aquarius. They have a lovely moon trine moon together which I am not seeing them being able to utilize.

[Ava]

Thank you for the feedback and insights sroo.

My heart goes out to you for having your children under a "No Crying" rule with their father. Hopefully you've been able to help them see that crying is normal and necessary sometimes.

I think your Mars squaring his Mercury-Uranus opposition explains a lot. Aries Mars is independent; until he evolves past the control issues inherent in his Cap planets opposing Mercury, he will be frustrated by his inability to control people. From what you described, it almost sounds like he makes the assumption that it's his job how to tell people how they should live.

As a side note, my Virgo moon ex boyfriend also used to tell me how to live. Great ideas, but it's not like that ever made me feel loved. More like I was his project in the making.

[t5]

sroo ...

I am only born 8 months earlier so ...... For the personal planets, for the Uranus, it squares my mars

The astrodienst ephemeris has Mars as being direct 8 months before he was born - but, on another thread here, you state that your Mars is retrograde.

So ... is your natal Mars direct or is it retrograde, sroo (as that would affect how it interacts with his natal Uranus-Sun 165 aspect)?

[sroo]

Nov 4, 2021 7:18:35 GMT t5 said:

sroo ...

I am only born 8 months earlier so ...... For the personal planets, for the Uranus, it squares my mars

The astrodienst ephemeris has Mars as being direct 8 months before he was born - but, on another thread here, you state that your Mars is retrograde.

So ... is your natal Mars direct or is it retrograde, sroo (as that would affect how it interacts with his natal Uranus-Sun 165 aspect)?

Yeah it's retrograde... Born 8 months and 18 days earlier. My mars is 0 degrees in Aires there.

[sroo]

t5

Ny birthday is on the 21st October 1988. It should be retrograde.

[sroo]

Nov 3, 2021 13:13:27 GMT Ava said:

Thank you for the feedback and insights sroo.

My heart goes out to you for having your children under a "No Crying" rule with their father. Hopefully you've been able to help them see that crying is normal and necessary sometimes.

I think your Mars squaring his Mercury-Uranus opposition explains a lot. Aries Mars is independent; until he evolves past the control issues inherent in his Cap planets opposing Mercury, he will be frustrated by his inability to control people. From what you described, it almost sounds like he makes the assumption that it's his job how to tell people how they should live.

As a side note, my Virgo moon ex boyfriend also used to tell me how to live. Great ideas, but it's not like that ever made me feel loved. More like I was his project in the making.

Thanks @ava. I hope the kids will manage. And maybe my one day a week will help. I hope.

My mars is also not so happy natally with square to Saturn and Uranus. I really appreciate both yours and t5 insight as I've been wanting to work on my mars energy and heal that part of myself.

Maybe it's an earth moon thing, my Capricorn moon partner also likes to give advice. But our moons have a sextile and for some reason way more warmth and affection. The advice doesn't become mean and overbearing. It's so sad about virgo, it can be such wonderful energy too. I found a very different side of it through the eyes of Dana Gerhardt and Liz Greene - when they let go of taking on the society's roles and morality and thread softly with themselves.

[t5]

sroo … Has your retrograde natal Mars turned direct by progression? And, if yes, when did it do so?