Thoughts on Mathematical P

[geminiblues]

Thoughts on Mathematical Points

(Sorry for the truncated title)

Think of an Interstate Highway. Mile marker 118 might mark a bridge, or the peak of a hill, or the midpoint of a turn. Things might happen at mm 118. Perhaps the bridge might need repaired more often causing delays. Perhaps traffic speeds up after cresting the hill. But what happens there rarely affects what happens at mile marker 117 or 119, let alone 5 miles further away.

Now, put an exit at that point. Maybe a toll booth. Someone builds a gas station, someone else builds a restaurant. People start seeing it as a destination, or a transition to another road.

Mathematical points such as nodes, parts, vertex, or angles have no mass. They have no inherent weight to attract, no gravity. When something transits them, there is something noticeable, but it's local. In other words, they have no orb. Add a planet conjunct the point, however, and the planet is tangled with the point. The point takes on the flavor of the planet, and the planet takes on the importance of the point. Now, transits and aspects matter.

I believe this is why some people seem to show no particular affinity to their nodes and vertex while others seem to be locked into them.

Thoughts?

[geminiblues]

To torture the analogy further... Point conjunct point synastry, such as node conj. DC, are like 2 routes sharing the same highway. So mile marker 118 might still only be a bridge, but at least we cross it together...

[Ava]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts geminiblues . I like the analogy...

I like thinking of the celestial sphere as regular geography, a globe with all its "places" (signs, degrees) mapped out and having a unique quality.

Whimsically speaking.....maybe we're born listening to the arrangement of planets. Wherever a planet was, we have a psychic antenna always in that direction, remembering something was there, its peculiar energy or communication. (Maybe it works both ways; the sky remembers that WE were there.)

Still I think of the nodes as a kind of....I don't know, a different thing. Almost like the solar system arrangement is the hardware and the nodes are the software? They seem to decide so much about the timing of our arrival (and I think that's cued to ancestry and maybe reincarnation cycles, but that's not really my point). The nodes also determine the draconic chart. If I wonder, "Why was that person born then?" my best guess might be to look at the nodes first. That explains a lot. That's the destiny path.

I do think natal planets aspecting the nodes are critical to understand, when we try and tap into a person's motivations. 

Come to think of it the ASC is similar, determining house placements. I'm not sure of the vertex at all, possibly because my natal vertex does not aspect natal planets (except a trine to Chiron).

Hmmm

[lumina]

While I agree (to a certain degree at least), I also think like Ava that there is something very intriguing about the nodes as they do have orbs, at least in respect to the eclipse phenomenon, maybe it is just specific to that, I don`t know, but in the instance of an eclipse the New or Full Moon is not always exactly aligned with the nodes but there is some orb involved. Apart from that at least theoretically I agree with the line of thinking, mathematical points are, well, points.

[Ava]

Thanks lumina , I had gotten a little sidetracked...

Well the daily horoscopes focus on perfecting aspects, it's assumed they set the tone for the day or time period. So whatever aspects in our chart were exact to the minute the day we were born, they might be extra pronounced in synastry. (Astrologers usually include minor aspects in daily horoscopes, but I think only the major aspects and inconjunctions will have that same-degree phenomenon.) In my case the perfecting aspects were Mars sextile Jupiter (16°) and Venus semisextile Uranus (6°). My husband's Venus @ 6° and his nodes aspect my Mars and Jupiter with less than half a degree orb.

Sometimes precisely exact synastry conjunctions have been really weird for me, especially if their planet is heavily aspected in a bad way or vice versa. Mercury conjunct Mercury when mine's in a t-square and theirs is trine Jupiter. I'm riding the brakes and they're speeding.

[lumina]

Ava

I absolutely agree about the same degree phenomenon, even if not to the minute, there is magic in the same degree. 
HOwever IF there is such an exact aspect, that is really something to pay a lot of attention to. (I think possibly my closest aspect is Saturn on 16°57 Cancer trine Juno on 16°58 Pisces - of course this also means that if some transit or progression or solar arc affects one, it will also affect the other practically at the same time. I am actually curious how it will be to have my pr Moon come to 16 Scorpio, though I will have to wait one year for this to happen. lol my pr Moon is on 4 Scorpio at the moment.  

An example is when I was in London for the change of the year 2013/ 2014, seeing Jude Law as Henry V, and obviously spending New Year there, having high tea at the Savoy, etc, so really special memories. Anyway during that week my pr Moon was on 16 Cancer, actually on the last day I saw him in that play, it was on 16°57 Cancer, so precisely conjunct my natal Saturn. with Tr Jupiter on 16/ 15 Cancer (it was retrograde). 

And it just always struck me as hilarious or curious that Jude Law has
NN: 16°51 Cap
Jupiter: 17°11 Cap
Shakespeare: 17°57 Cap
Destinn: 16°06 Cap

and his pr ASC was on 15 Cap


--------------

Also agree about the synastry, this might sound weird, but when I see those same degrees, like you just put the 6 degree out there, it is like I can hear/ sense something hum underneath, like every degree has its own vibration? Yeah I am weird. lol Of course my Venus is on 6 degree, too. lol 


Great example too about the differences there about the MErcuries (T-square vs trine to Jupiter), it just makes a lot of sense. 

BTW have I posted this link here before? I am not totally on board with everything on that site, but found this was an interesting article about the same degree aspects in synastry. 

[lumina]

www.cosmitec-astrological-compatibility-advice.com/finding-the-most-sensitive-degrees-in-synastry.html

[geminiblues]

Ava,

I describe my mercury T as a Chevy racing 350 with the throttle full open, but the car is up on blocks so it doesn't go anywhere. I relate.

As for the axis, I've got planets near enough conjunct the Vx and NN that it's the Asc that I don't feel.

[lumina]

But how close does a planet have to be to "count" on your opinion, geminiblues?

I have

Asc 7 sag
NN 10 sag

Mars 5 sag
Neptune 10vsag (well 9.56)

I think it counts for me, but of course the Asc is on the midpoint of Mars and Neptune.

You say you don't feel your Asc. What happens if someone puts a planet tightly there? Do you feel your presence brings out that other planet in the other person more acutely?

[geminiblues]

So, I have NN 2° Can 05
And VenusRx 2° Can 18
So, 13 minutes and applying

Mercury 7° Gem 32
Vertex 8° Gem 23
So, not so tight, but still orb less than 1°, with 3 planets square to mercury in orbs ranging from 1° to 4°


Asc 0° Sco 38. Nothing remotely conjunct or opposing. Closest aspects are Venus and the Nodes trine from Cancer, Libra is empty, Scorpio has Neptune Rx @15° and change.

When I say I don't feel my Asc, I mean *I* don't feel it. Like, I don't know what impact my Asc has on my core identity. I attract plenty with it. Before I got into astrology as anything more than "I'm a gemini so I like books", I already was making the observation that I kept attracting girls who's birthdays fell about the 3rd week of October. I said I discovered the 13th sign, "Librascorp". This was one of the ways I confirmed to myself that there just might be something to astrology after doing my own birth chart.

Anyway, from direct observation, I don't know how close is close enough. I'm also of two minds whether other major aspects count for points, or just conjunctions (and opposition's because they conjunct the opposite point). I believe Venus trining my Asc has some significance, in that it's more easily "seen" by other people. Maybe my SaturnRx at 5° Pis 02, though I don't think so. If it is, then it's because it's "helped" by the aspect to Venus.

[geminiblues]

Side note... The time frame where I had that spat of girls with sun on the cusp of Scorpio... It was about the time where Pluto was transiting the first 5° or so of Scorpio, not so much since..
So, Her sun conjunct my Asc conjunct tPluto... Yeah, the 80's had some odd moments...

[Ava]

That's interesting geminiblues. I have wondered what Scorpio rising feels like.

My impression of Cancer Venus is, it's a viscerally warm placement, something one CAN feel.

My ASC most likely trine Venus but it's fire and just feels like forward momentum, being outgoing and usually sunny in person, even if I feel horrible, there is this autopilot. Maybe that's why my Venus has featured so strongly in synastry, it's usually a predictable uppity energy, pretty undaunted, unlike other more hidden aspects of my chart and personality, like my crazy moon.

As for Mercury...that's a great analogy. Well maybe that car is meditating.

[lumina]

geminiblues

you have quite some very tight conjunctions to angles!

Anyway it makes a lot of sense what you write to me. i am also forever wondering which aspects to calculated points really count, I tend to focus on conjunctions and occasionally squares (cause they represent the midpoint of the axis, not so much because they are a square). As for the other ones, if they are very close keep an eye on them. But it is a discussion topic definitely.

And also makes sense to me that Tr Pluto was there with your ASC and the girls Suns. It seems to me that Transits, of course in particular of the outer ones, activate/ trigger that potential. I also observe strong response of progressed placements to partile transits.