Progressed synastry (Westran`s research)

[lumina]

Paul Westran has researched which aspects were often appearing at the outset of relationships, with a large body of relationships. He also duplicated this study in 2019 I think. 

Anyway, this is statistics, of course not everybody will have the named aspects, and not every "couple" having those will come together in a relationship. HOwever it is still intersting. 

The main results are that the No 1 aspects in progressed synastry (2 degree orb) at the onset of relationships is a conjunction/ trine/ opposition between Sun and Venus (p-p, p-n, n-p). 

Secondarily there appeared a larget than average number of other aspects like Venus-Mars, where especially the trine seemed indicative of "passionate affairs that do not necessarily result in marriage", though on a personal note,m it does not exclude this possibility, but it depends on other stuff happening). 

Venus-Mars-conjunction seem to happen too, and mVenus-Mars-oppositions are obviously "very passionate at the beginning of a relationship, but might work different within an established relationship".

Venus-Venus (trine, conjunction, oppositions) seem to be one of the "most romantic aspects", however also so subtle that oftentimes nothing really happens, unless, because Venus is so passive. It needs a "kick" from something more active. 


Also it seems that the progressed squares between Venus and Mars are REALLY difficult "a handgrenade thrown into the timeline of a relationship" (not a literal quote though Oftentimes it blows established relationships apart, or at least points to serious challenges (though at the beginning could be volatile, but passionate) and very often there is a risk of "third party inferences" (read: an affair during an existing relationship blowing up the primary relationship). 

Venus-Sun-squares also seem to be quite difficult, but operating differently, sometimes in keeping people apart from each other due to external circumstances (Romeo and Juliet), while very often there actually still ARE strong feelings there, it does not deny an attraction, but apparently the coming together. 

Also if, as he sais, the trines are indicative of "agreeableness and cooperation" (and actually he mentions that now and then he has seen the trines during divorces as well, which then would go pretty amicable/ cooperative) , I could imagine that maybe with the square this cooperative factor is sort of lacking. 

Anyway actually why I summarized that, is something that I found interesting. 

IF taking out the most often occurring aspects (Sun-Venus conjunction/ trine/ opposition), then it seemd that next to Venus-Mars and Venus-Venus, these aspects happened with astounding frequency (much higher than probability would say)

Venus sextile or quintile Sun. 

There would be a qualitative difference or an interpretative difference I think, the trine might be more flowing, smooth, harmonious, like gliding into a relationship, while the sextile would probably be more social/ friendly, like being friends first and then realizing you go so good together. 

The quintile would be a bit more quirky, vivacous, playful, maybe a little "magical" in the sense of playfulness. 


I point that out cause I actually noticed those aspects (along with the Venus-Mars sextile and especially quintile) in relationships of familymembers/ friends/ aquaintances, and usually the quintile is NOT thought of as a main aspects.

Anyway just thought that was interestng, and will trace a bit more structurally in  relationships I know. So far it also seems that 

a) a Venus-Sun-square is manageable in a (existing) relationship, if other good stuff is present. 

b) a Venus-Sun-square AND a Venus-Mars-square with a fading/dissolving sextile of Venus-Mars or Venus-Sun and nothing really outstanding positive to cushion the blow is really  a handgrenade into a relationship

c) the relationships that have stood the test of time, or being ongoing for a couple of years, usually seem to have a series of aspects (Sun, Venus, Mars) following each other

d) Venus-square - Venus might just point to a difference in taste during certain times, but is not necessarily a sign for people to break up (unless there really is nothing else worthwhile). 

e) Venus-Mars sextile or quintile (or probabl also the other aspects) often cover the period of having children? I am not quite sure yet, but I think I noticed that more than once. lol 


Ugh, just putting this out here for now. 
BTW those were just my thoughts/ impressions I got by glancing over those progressed relationship synastries, but I would have to look more systematically. So I could be wrong of course. 

BTW Westrans page offers the possibility to look up progressed synastry (Sun, Venus, Mars; he includes the quintile and there are also interpretations).
(you would have to register for free though)

www.positiveastrology.com/synastry_app.asp


the other site is on astro.win. astrowin.org/scripts/prog_synastry_chart.php

(here you could also look up declinations, though I am hesitant about it for now). 

It does - sadly - not include the quintile , but it does - luckily - include the quinkunx. It also gives interpretations as taken from Westrans site. However ONLY for the aspects of Sun, Venus, Mars. 

ON Westrans site if you choose "synastry report" it also gives other aspects, like for example that is how I know, at the moment for me there are quite some Venus-Neptune-quintiles going on. 

my pVenus quintile his n Neptune 1.3 
my pVenus quintile his pNeptune 0.1

(along with his pVenus trine my n Saturn 0.7 and his pVenus quintile my nVenus 1.9 - which has just come into under the 2 degree orb, so this aspect is just in the very beginning phase)

I also like the interpretations, well it of course emphasizes the creativity/ imagination/ curiosity

"There is something uniquely unusual about the romantic side of your relationship, but the way you relate to each other is no different from any other couple. The quintile bestows a creativity which stirs the curiosity. You both appreciate each other's values, beauty and gentleness.



Venus represents the control we all have to determine aesthetic taste, so it governs the part of our mind which appreciates beauty in all its forms. When two Venuses connect by the quintile aspect, they tend to be poised in a dance of sublime complexity whose underlying principles a combinations of two people's appreciation of love, romance and beauty.



Whatever your talents and gifts, the quintile in relationships urges you to combine them so that you can utilize them together on the same project.



This is a temporary dynamic of your relationship, it can occasionally last for more than a decade."

and

"The quintile aspect bears the qualities of creativity and utility. It is rather more beneficial in relationships than some other connections, but in the case of Venus and Neptune it creates a fertile well of imagination. While this can be a good thing in a relationship when channeled well, it can occasionally make you feel like you are in love without having spent a great deal of time with the object of your affection. This is not a criticism, but an observation.



This is a temporary dynamic of your relationship, although it can occasionally last for more than a decade."

Venus-Neptune is NOT a typical statistical "relationship-start-aspect", however if it is there, it sais something about the way two people interact/ connect, and personally I think it fits well. Maybe a little too subtle and ethereal, but since we interact through music mostly and roleplaying in a sense, I do think it simply matches the reality of now. 

Just put it here as an example btw, not trying to advertize that site. lol 

[Ava]

Thanks lumina .

Wondering if I can add anything to Westran's observations. When my husband and I got together:

17 Virgo, his pr sun, trine my natal 15 Cap sun but over 1° separating
25 Libra, his pr Venus (conjunct his pr IC, my natal IC, and our composite sun)
21 Virgo, his pr Mars (conjunct composite Uranus-Pluto, hooking into comp kite)

8 Aqua, my pr sun (conjunct my DSC, his pr DSC, transiting Uranus)
4 Cap, my pr Venus, trine his natal Virgo Venus, applying
15 Gem, my pr Mars, very slow pr Mars but square his pr sun

Everything about us was more Uranian as I've said. We didn't develop as usual relationships do.

Pls don't quote

[lumina]

Ava

certainly there will be progressions going on that are "couple-specific", at least that is how I think, and I also think that usually there will be transits at play. I mean with an orb of 2 degrees applying and separating we are talking about quite some time, and at some point during it the relationship will be "officially" come together (though in some cases it might be more a slow development, in other cases it will be a whirlwind speed like with you )

Interestingly aside from the more couplespecific things you still had one of the aspects that Westran found to be very prominent at the beginning of relationships and actually th emost romantic of those (the pr Venus-Venus-trine, actually this is what started him on that research journey, as he shared that aspect with his now wife, if I remember it right, and wanted to investigate it).

But apart from that I do think there are specific things that might be different for every couple, depending on their natal charts, really.


Personally I think the pr Sun to n and pr DESC and ESPECIALLY with the transiting Uranus to be the culpirit in your case (along with the Venus-Venus trine, and obviously a Sun-Sun trine helps a lot with getting along pretty well).

And I wouldn`t be surprised if the progressed composite was having some very relevant factors as well plus the fitting transits hitting it, you already mentioned some of course.

[Ava]

Thanks again lumina.

That's very interesting about the progressed Venus aspecting natal Venus.

I think my pr Cap Venus was very obvious back then, possibly almost a caricature of what one might imagine with that placement. I was so straight-laced and determined everything had to be excellent, intentional, and accounted for. Your natal Cap Venus doesn't seem to function this way domestically, like you aren't making homemade bread a few times a week and calculating the costs based on different ingredients. But I was that kind of person then. It's clear why a Virgo Venus might approve of this. I took the burden off my husband in many ways, we were a good match when it came to being meticulous.

The way I have my chart rectified, my 6H cusp is @ 7° Cap, maybe pr Venus applying to that point manifested in 6H ways.

The heart of the issue with my husband and I, which I should have said up front, is that my natal Venus is tightly trine his natal sun, and his natal Venus trines my sun by sign (less than 10° orb; I count that but I know you don't. )


"certainly there will be progressions going on that are "couple-specific", at least that is how I think, and I also think that usually there will be transits at play."

Yes yes, exactly.

"And I wouldn`t be surprised if the progressed composite was having some very relevant factors as well plus the fitting transits hitting it, you already mentioned some of course."

Right. Well there's so much to relationships.

[lumina]

Ava

yes, it is true my natal Venus in Capricorn doesn`t function - at least in the mentioned areas- as a Venus in Capricorn should or is expected to. I am a slob. lol

But then again since I was 19 years old my pr Venus was in Aquarius, and entered Pisces on 18th december 2017 (always thought it was peculiar that it changed signs exactly on my birthday. lol)

A Venus-Sun natal trine seems very coold to have. No, I certainly wouldn`t count a trine with 9 or 10 degrees as a priority-aspect.
However the sign background would of course still be there and colour this from "a background", In your case there is a special thing though, as you have the tight Sun-Venus-trine the other way round, so this might come up in your composite as well, most probably as a conjunction.



Mir is very adamant about that at the start of relationships usually there is a 4th harmonic Sun-Moon-progression at play preferably individually and in synastry). I wouldn`t go so far to expect it to be there ALWAYS,b ut if it shows up, that progressed Sun-Moon-aspect, I listen up. I mean it very clearly sais that something is "up or in the air".

In the case of my brother and his wife that was true, when they got officially together, actually for the second time (btw they had first started out as "friends" - well they never were "just friends", my brother was just too blind to realize that. lol - there was a widish separating conjunction of his pr Sun to her natal Mercury), as my sister in law was having her pr Moon in partile applying square to my brother`s pr Sun, (Cancer- Aries), and his pr Moon was applying to oppose her pr Sun within 2-3 degrees, so operative over the next 3 months) (Libra - Aries). (obviously with a difference of a few months they each had an individual Sun-Moon-progression happening too)

[lumina]

my parents

They met in august 1971, got married in may and july 1974; I was born in december 1974; my middle brother in january 1977 and my youngest brother in march 1983. We moved into our own house (and actually living with and sharing it with my paternal grandparents in 1979/ 1980). 

So, there was a VERY extended (her) n Sun square (his) p Venus square in their progressed synastry, from 1970 - 1987, spanning all of this development. There were two peaks of it (beginning on 71 and beginning of 81). 

So they met pretty much only a couple of months AFTER the first square was exact (Westran sais that oftentimes if the Sun-Venus-square is fading, we feel the "relief", and like some of the tension or outward blockages are somehow dissolving/ falling away). It stayed in orb for them though throughout that time. The second peak was just after moving here, and I know that this was not easy for my mom to find an agreeable structure between her own family and her parents in law. They were all good people, but it took a lot of adaption. And obviously after this settled, they decided to have another child. 


HOwever there were also some other aspects at play during meeting, the square alone certainly would not have been a good sign. 

But they also had a separating (her) pVenus trine (his) n Sun happening. It had already peaked, but it seems that sometimes the separating phase still "works".
It went out of 2 degree orb in sprin 1972, so about half a year after they met. 

At the same time they were also having pr Sun quintile pr Venus, until summer 1971, so basically going out of orb when or shortly after they met (well one of the first things my mother did, was going on a trip and being away. lol) 


Anyway just after their separating pVenus-trine-n Sun went out of orb, her pr Venus came into orb to conjunct first his n and then a few months later also his pr Mars. The peak of the last of these aspects was in spring 1975, so just a couple of months after I was being born, and their engagement phase and wedding date is pretty much right in the middle of that aspect that spanned from spring 1972 - january 1977 (which was the months my middle brother was being born) - I think how that expressed in their life is selfexplanatory. 

I find it interesting though that there is FIRST a Venus-Sun-trine followed THEN by a pretty strong Venus-Mars-conjunction (it also affected my Dad`s SN as he has a Mars-SN conjunction natally, but I focused just on the "researched" planets, obviously there were others at play too). 

A few months before their Venus-Mars-conjunction went out of orb in january 1977, a pr Venus-trine - n Venus started to happen (from october 1976) and lasting until mid 1980. 

At that time (spring 1978 - january 1982), a pr Sun quintile nVenus happened, and was followed and backed up by pr Sun sextile pr Venus (from fall 79 - mid 84)

So that extended Sun-Venus-square was accompanied by a series of nice Sun-Venus-progressions too 

from end of 82 until mid 2005 a very long lasting pVenus trine pMars started (curiously it never got exact, though stayed in orb for all that time, which has of course to do with retrogradation)

What I gather here is that 

a) the whole birth-of-children phases were accompanied by a Venus-Mars progression (the conjunction for the first two children, the trine for the last)

b) they were never left "alone" with the Sun-Venus-square

c) there are no "holes" in their progressed synastry at least of the first 34 years of them knowing each other and being married (and surely this goes on for them into the present, but I was stopping there. lol), when one aspect faded out another came in. 

[lumina]

my best friend and her husband

met at university (around 1995 or 1996); were friends for a couple of years (he wasn`t really her type, besides they were both in relationships at that time; his relationship broke up first, cause his girlfiend had been cheating or meeting somebody new online, don`t quite remember; her life was a bit messy, as she was in a relationship at that time, that - as my opinion was - had been long past its selldate already, but was "familiar/ family"; she then developed a crush on somebody else, they started a relationship/ affair, that was completely toxic to begin with; there was a lot of on and off too, with her former partner, whom she reconciled with, but then he was cheating on her, being sort of in two relationships at the same time, but unlike her, not confessing to it, which made her go crazy, but obviously also felt guilty, anyway, there was a lot of chaos and heartache on all sides involved; and her now husband was pretty much standing by, watching all of that happen, having told her pretty soon after his own relationshp broke up, that he would marry her in a minute, but was also prepared to wait until she was ready, and was just okay with being a friend, too, and well yeah as I said, a lot of chaos, not even I can remember the right order of things. lol)

They got officially together in a relationship (well settled on a date, as not even she is sure when they got together, it sort of just happened) either at the end of 1999 or 2000, can`t quite remember which year. 

Got married in 2004; the birth of their children was april 2008, may 2010, october 2012, april 2015 and june 2018. 


a pr Venus square pr Sun went out of orb in spring 1998: 
I think that must have been when HIS relationship broke up, but she was still in some chaos in her own love life; however around that time, in late 98 or so, their friendship got closer (though stayed a friendship for the time being).


pr Venus sextile n Sun: 2001 - 2004 

and 

n Venus trine pr Sun: end 2001 - mid 2005

- those two must have been happening just after their getting together (they became more serious and closer actually after the official getting together date, like the romance factor grew over time, which I think is pretty well described in their Venus-Sun-progressions becoming stronger over time)

This also covers the time of their moving in together and getting married



n Venus square pr Venus: mid 2005 - end 2008
n Mars square pr Venus: mid 2005 - 2008 

- this is interesting, and could have been the time a break happened, which it obviously didn`t. They rather decided at the separating of the aspects to have a child. 

I don`t think the Venus-Square Venus would have been disastrous, the Venus-Mars could have been. Venus-square Venus certainly manifested in difference of taste and other things, which is very true. 
the Mars-Venus, well they did argue quite a lot, or actaully he avoided arguments and she was getting silent about things that disturbed her. However they have always been a very communicative couple, and communication is at the basis of what they are about (they started out as friends for a reason I think), and this somehow brought them back into honest discussions. However she once confided in me that there "have been flirtations"- and knowing she is a genius in understatement, well for her to even mention those, I suppose there were some rather - commitment threatening flirtations on both sides going on- but they somehow kept it together. 


pMars quintile pVenus: end 2007 - 2015
a VERY long Mars-Venus-progression!

And curiously it came into orb just shortly around the time she got pregnant with their first child and covered the birth of all children except their youngest daughter. 

(I start taking the quintiles and Venus-Mars - progressions serious.   )



n Sun trine p Venus: 2011 - 2014
- so another Sun-Venus-trine, who knows maybe during the more stressful phase they "sensed" some calmer waters ahead? 

Also happened during the pMars quintile pVenus, and they seemed extremely happy during those years. 


pVenus conjunct nVenus: 2017 - 2020

Well there was a "hole" in 2016 in terms of Venus-progressions, and this was a year, even more difficult than the Venus-Mars-square years. 
My friend`s mother died, and while he supported her through this as best as he could by also taking a lot of care about their children and the external stuff, as she said, he sought stimulation elsewhere without literal cheating,b ut something that really hurt her, but as I said, they patched it up, and during the next 3 years my friend was speaking as affectionately about her husband as she never did before, it actually seemed like only then, she was truely "in" love with him; but it is an up and down for both of them I think and they really see themselves as life-partners and a parental - team mainly. Well it seems to work for them, but maybe I would need to be an earth sign as they both are or have an airy Venus or Mars to truely understand that approach. 

Still so again Venus-Mars (and this time Venus-Venus) showing up for the time of having children. Making a mental note there. lol 

[lumina]

my brother and his wife

met as coworkers in a part time job, started out as friends (well not really, but my brother thought so 😂), got sort of together very casually, then broke up, got back together for real, which is the date they "count" in 2006 (she introduced herself to my parents but just coming by to say "Hello" without my brother`s participation, who has been a bit hesitant. Well she might have a lot of personal planets in Pisces, but ASC in Aries shows. lol) ; the first year was a bit volatile/ rocky, then things got smoother, moved in together at some point, I`d think around 2010? not sure about the year. Had their son in august 2016, got married in 2017, had their daughter in august 2019. And here we are. lol 


In 2006 there was none of the statistical relevant Venus-progressions; they had a DW of pr Moon opposing/ square pr Sun though. and a few other bits. 

nVenus quintile pVenus: 2007 - 2010
- obviously what made them feel there was something worthwhile there, from an external view it was a little bit like watching a theatreplay of Italian vs Nordic temperament unfolding. LOL (but seems there was enough fun for them in it, though my brother was a little exhausted by all the initial drama, nothing really serious though. )


pr Moon square pr Moon: 2011 - 2012 
a very short one, yeah different temperaments for sure

but also

pVenus conjunct nMars: 2010 - 2012

So this took over from the quirky romantic dance of Venus quintile Venus


then there was a pause of 3 years, but they stayed together, I guess maybe something else was at play during that time, and of course there is always pr Moon to watch  

pVenus conjunct nVenus: 2015 - 2018
- which covered the time they decided to have a child (and my brother said he had been surprised that it "worked" pretty much instantly after they had made that decision, he had expected to have more time, as his friends usually had "tried" for a couple of years. 😂), the birth of their son, them getting married a year later and deciding to have another child and her getting pregnant, immediately again, in late 2018


nVenus sextile pMars: 2015- 2020 
peaked at the end of 2017 so just after them getting married. 


nMars opposite pVenus: 2016 - 2019
- again exactly spanning the birth of their son (2016), their wedding (2017) and the birth of their daughter (2019) - wow those Venus-Mars - progressions! Like clockwork (at least if there is a relationship to begin with)

pMars opposite pVenus: 2017 - 2020

- this is interesting to me as I had wondered about the opposition in existing relationships, in this instance it seems to have worked very well for them

nSun sextile pVenus: 2017-2020

of course their opposition was "cushioned" by a Venus-Mars-sextile and a Sun-Venus-sextile, with each one being VEnus in one of the aspects, maybe that helped. 
Also makes me wonder if I have always underestimated the sextile, at least in my personal databank of people close to me it seems to feature pretty strongly in the relationships. 

Also in an interpretative sense, I have sometimes marvelled about how especially my brother seemed to exhibit more affection towards his wife in recent years than he did in the beginning of the relationship, but maybe that has something to do with by getting married, that was sort of also bringing together two families and in a way feeling accepted as an official couple by the families? Not sure, this might not be the case or it might be subconscious too. But fact is they have been interacting more harmoniously with each other with the birth of their children. Though for recent months that seems to be not the case anymore. Not that they aren`t cooperating, they are pretty well and also seem to be very affectionate, however at the same time also a bit more teasing and argumentative with each other. Just from an external observation. 

But yeah except for them getting together without some of these aspects, the other thing really fit into that theory with the addendum, that the observation about quintile and sextile seems to be really spot on (in those relationships at least)

[Ava]

Thanks lumina -- so extensive! Lots of case material for the curious.

Since your best friend and her husband mirror myself and my ex with the birth dates, it's interesting to read about them and notice how we ran parallel, but not really. Officially our relationship was done while theirs was just starting. Still, there was communication with my ex when his progressed Venus was conjunct my natal Venus (long after the relationship ended).

I see that's highlighted with your brother and his wife, too. Seems potentially lovely, in a committed relationship. But it's kinda like too much interest going down a dead end street, without it.

My pr Gemini Mars was stationary and trining his natal Venus-Mars for a very long time, decades, and I think factors into the whole story, and it's true for your best friend and her husband. My pr Mercury (Mars dispositor) was also slow, Rx, near stationary when we were in college. I was going for depth with my major, I would write and re-write and re-write papers, and some of my books look like a crazy person was studying them (coded highlighters, symbols, extensive notes in the margins). So I was a standout with our professors (we had the same major), but I guess not so much at parties or anywhere socially useful, at that time. Maybe that's why I seemed dull to him then, but interesting after he grew up and thought back.

Anyway, just a general point: stationary planets may affect outcomes.

Pls don't quote

[lumina]

Ava

yes, the Venus-Venus has manifested for you, too, but obviously different pasts, different life circumstances. 
Also going beyond Westran`s research I think the progressed Moons will be important, the transits and especially eclipses. . 


As for stationary planets I Hear you, that is the reason my pr Mercury has been holding a square to P`s n and pr Uranus for ages, using one degree orb only, from 2012 - 2024. I am okay with that though (esp. since Mercury is in Aqua). But usually Mercury is quickly done with aspects. WEll this is also a reason for the extended opposition of Mercury and Saturn in our pr composite using one degree orb: march 20 - september 29, so we better get used to that. it`s going to stick for a while. 

[Ava]

lumina

I hope that Mercury-Saturn works out nicely, steady communication and not too much silence.

Looking at the progressed synastry of more couples, I was impressed with how clearly Venus/Mars showed up. It's curious to me that people might feel more romantic about each other (Venus/Mars) even if other things are out of whack. But of course simplistically if there's beauty (Venus) and physical appetite (Mars), a relationship is more likely to turn romantic than if those things are absent.

I've been reading about stationary planets lately.
www.celestialinsight.com.au/2020/05/18/when-time-stands-still-exploring-stationary-planets/

She doesn't cover progressions but I took the liberty of applying her insights to progressed planets, too. Just feels accurate.

And I'm venturing a guess that progressed stationary planets are highly influential and when progressed synastry "chimes" with stationary planets, there can be a lasting memory and impact.

edit

[lumina]

Just meant to express my amazement about oberving how the Venus-quintiles-progressions seems to keep on showing up (esp. in relation to Sun, Venus, Mars and at least in my personal progressed synastries, Neptune. Must be one of the aspects I read most often, Venus-Neptune-quintile. Interesting).