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Post by anela on Jul 19, 2020 0:56:15 GMT
I've just seen this at astro.com, and have no idea what it is, but it gives me a Capricorn Sun.
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Post by lumina on Jul 19, 2020 11:35:13 GMT
anelaIt's the Duad Chart, some also call IT dwad Chart.
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Post by lumina on Jul 19, 2020 11:39:05 GMT
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Post by lumina on Jul 19, 2020 11:41:22 GMT
I relate a Lot to my dwad Chart. uploaded gratis accountIt's Like the Natal Chart is the 1st House and the dwads the 12th House operating from the Background but infusing their Quality into the Natal planets, and being subtile but very powerful. I mean come in my Venus Just reeks of pisces flavour. Lol my Cap Venus might try to Channel IT, but all that soulmate stuff? My inclination to Fantasy and Dreams? Anyway using equal Houses you can locate the planets in Houses, too. So my Venus would actually Fall into dwad 1st and the Basic Natal 3rd House. And conjunct the Basic 11 degree Jupiter. Trigger my Jupiter and a subtile Venus Level will start to resonate.
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Post by Ava on Jul 22, 2020 1:41:03 GMT
I mean come in my Venus Just reeks of pisces flavour. Lol my Cap Venus might try to Channel IT, but all that soulmate stuff? My inclination to Fantasy and Dreams? That makes sense. My dwad chart has Venus conjunct Pluto in Aquarius. My heliocentric chart also has Venus conjunct Pluto. Maybe that's why, in my 3 longest relationships, two of the men have natal Venus-Pluto conjunctions, and I have Venus conjunct Pluto in composite with the other. What stands out most in my dwad chart is 0.03 Cancer NN squaring 0.02 Aries Mercury...rectified birth time, so that might be off. It's still near the cardinal Aries Point axis and still gives a clear picture of being tongue-tied, yet struggling to communicate (Aries isn't going to just sit on its hands).
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Post by anela on Jul 26, 2020 0:55:19 GMT
(Aries isn't going to just sit on its hands). This is true. Thanks, lumina I'll have to have another look at mine. I thought it might have something to do with dwads, since I remembered my Sun being on the Cappy dwad. This is mine:
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Post by anela on Jul 26, 2020 0:56:41 GMT
Oops, I forgot to delete the asteroid numbers.
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Post by lumina on Jul 26, 2020 10:16:10 GMT
anelaYes it is the dwad Chart. IT is also interesting in synastry, each dwad sign spans 2,5 degrees of the normal Natal Chart, so aspects within 2,5 degree orbs usually have the Same aspect in the dwads at least in Terms of the signs. At least If both Fall into the Same 2,5 degree area. For example my sun and Mercury both Fall into 25-27,5 Sag, though both dwads are in Libra (Not conjunct though, every 5 minutes of Arc in the normal Chart a new dwad degree appears) So my sun in 25 degrees and 56 minutes Sag equals a dwad of 11 Libra. 25 degrees sag is 00 Libra in the dwad, 56 minutes divided by 5 is approximately 11, hence 11 degrees Libra. My Mercury in 25 degrees and 3 minutes Sag gives a dwad of 0-1 Libra, opposing Ava Mercury. 👋 From that WE can See that certain seemingly unconnected degrees make Strong Background Connections in the dwad. For example 20 degree and 55 minutes of Aqua and 25 d and 55 minutes of Sag both equal 11 Libra dwad.
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Post by lumina on Jul 26, 2020 10:39:57 GMT
Ava btw the Italian`s Sun is at 20°59 Aquarius, hence his Dwad Sun is at 11 Libra, exactly conjunct mine. Well I had not even been looking for the synastry, but just some things jumping out DIRECTLY from that chart. like his Venus on 14°59 Pisces conjunct my Dwad Venus on 13 Pisces. (it probably puts his Dwad Venus near my Dwad Moon too, I guess, as 15°00 Pisces equals 00 Virgo, so his Dwad Venus must be in the last degree of Leo or something and my Dwad Moon is on 24 Leo and Dwad DSC on 25 Leo if I recall it rightly - curiously I have a Moon-DESC conjunction in the Dwads and my Draco Moon conjuncts my tropical DESC exactly as well). his Saturn on 00 Aqua corresponds to my Dwad Mars on 02 Aqua. and possibly more on the Dwad to Dwad level (I ust see that curiously he has ASC at 6 Aqua exactly ocnjunct his Mercury on 6 Aqua and putting Jupiter on 6 Leo on his DESC exactly, with Mars on 6 Gemini aspecting this. just his normal natal btw, not even looking into the Draco version of this or DDwads. lol but no wonder we "stumbled" into communication somehow, I mean those are rather "hot" degrees for me as well, where there is something "on". ASC 7 Sag, Mars 5 Sag, Venus 6 Cap, IC 5 Aries, Draco Moon 6°57 Gemini, prenatal LE 7 Gemini, that kind of stuff. well my Jupiter conjuncts his Venus, his Jupiter trines my Mars; almost reminiscent of P`s Jupiter trine my Venus and my Jupiter opposite his Mars, along with my Jupiter semisquare his Venus and his Jupiter widely square my Mars, well coming with a bit more tension it seems, but seems I have an inclination to these Jupiter aspects to Venus and/ or Mars. I mean P`s best friends Jupiter is sextile my Mars as well I think (though he also has Saturn there and that means it puts saturn squaring my Venus; too). and my new "inspirational aquaintance" has his Jupiter exact on my Pluto and conjunct my MC and in wide sextile to my Mars as well) Yeah I am already on a tangent again, will stop right here, but just thought that is interesting.
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Post by lumina on Jul 26, 2020 11:07:42 GMT
Also Ava your moon ist in 18 Pisces, right? So possibly your dwad moon might be in my dwad sun.
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Post by lumina on Jul 26, 2020 11:49:06 GMT
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Post by lumina on Jul 26, 2020 12:14:19 GMT
As for the meaning, I´ve come across quite a few (and how I find, vague, keywords) Soulmates, twinflames, mental essence, true Self (isn`t the whole chart depicting the TRUE self? a combination of many layers?), inner Self, secret Self, motivation, inner drive/ urge, where or how we direct the signs etc. Those may be true or some of them or none of them, I don`t know. I treat and see this mostly as a refinement of a planetary position, like a more detailed description to the degree. As Pam Crane writes; no two Sag Suns or Cappy Suns or Aries Suns are ever the same, mine for instance comes with a Libra flavour, more subtle, but it is colouring/ flavouring my Sag Sun. Ava your Cappy Sun is not just a Cappy Sun,b ut comes w ith a Cancer flavour, so much more emotional, caring, family-oriented than a pure Cap Sun would be. anela and your Aries Sun isn ot the typical fiery Aries, but the Dwad Sun in Capricorn adding a very grounded, even cautious and rational overtone or flavour. maybe it is seemingly more internal in the sense, that it is more like a subtle note. The other thing I see at play is the concept of resonance. Again quoting Pam Crane, that the same axis/ degree is creating a resonance (especially the tight conjunctions and oppositions because of the axis); so my Venus Dwad or Dwad Venus is on 13 Pisces, my natal Jupiter is on 11 Pisces (and my natal Juno on 16 Pisces), so if the string of this degree is plucked, obviously my Jupiter resonates, but so does, in a more subtle way, my Venus, even though it is far from my natal Venus-position, but it vibrates with that degree through the Dwad. Well it has always been a very important axis to me, but it is apparent too because of Jupiter being there, and it being squaring the nodal axis and Neptune. However it also has always been a very "romantic" area for me, so maybe that is why, the more subtle and maybe subconscious (?) Venus-overtone being played. Well here is my little essay I wrote 4 years ago on Duads/ Dwads, just trying to wrap my mind around it, not sure it is true, but just my thoughts back then. "Positions of Radix and Duads
Applying Duads to the Radix chart is like you are directing a magnifying glass onto a certain sign.
While the planets in the same sign always share basic traits of that sign, there still can be certain modifications of that expression be observed.
Though these modifications have other reasons, too (different aspect picture, houseposition, parallels etc.), I want to focus on the Duads here.
It can be said that Duads colour the expression of the particular sign, adding another nuance.
Example:
A mercury in Aries communicates in direct and sometimes bold ways; he tends to speak first, think later, and especially doesn´t he have concern about other people´s thoughts or how his ideas are received, when he is fired up mentally.
If this Mercury is in Sagittarius Duad (20°-22°30 Aries) , this kind of enthusiasm and directness gets even more emphasized and he might even offend other people with the vehemence he is expressing his ideas that might make them feel as if they have been run over by a train (of thought).
However if his Mercury is in Libra Duad (15°00-17°30 Aries) things are a bit different. He is still direct and straightforward in his enthusiasm, but the Libra influence softens his edges considerably and adds grace and charm to his way of communicating. He will be able to bring his point across in a more diplomatic manner.
But the Duads are not just simply an “addition” to the Radix position. It seems rather that they represent something that is “inside” or “underneath” the exterior – and dominan- expression of the sign qualities.
Example:
In my chart Venus is in Capricorn and Pisces Duad.
I certainly relate to others in a quiet, controlled, reliable way and may seem pretty selfsufficient and as having high standards.
Even though this is true, it doesn´t tell all of the story. Undertneath that rather pragmatic, careful and apparently realistic kind of relating style, the dreams of and desire for Romance and soulbound relating are boundless.
It is almost as if the Saturnian reasonable, grounded approach protects a hidden vulnerability and idealism.
In that respect the Duad chart on its own would describe a more internal personality, though it has to be seen in context of the Radix planets, which of course play lead guitar!
Conjunctions between Radix and Duads
These conjunctions represent meeting points and the Radix position acts as a portal or channel to allow direct access to the Duads.
Example:
My Radix Pluto on 9 Libra conjuncts my Duad Sun on 11 Libra
Whenever something touches my Pluto, it also triggers my Duad Sun.
The relationship between Radix planet and Duad planet on the same position in the zodiac is similar to the musical theory of overtones.
If one basic note is hit, it will sound loudly, but simultaneiously an overtone will start to resonate and hum, too, though more in the background (it is only a metaphor here; as the actual theory of overtones probably relates more directly to the astrological harmonics, but as metaphor it will suffice).
Now you have to listen closely to discern the overtone from the basic note, but you will certainly experience it on an emotional level. You will feel it. Both – basic note and overtone- create the whole experience of the sound.
Without the overtone a note would feel flat and onedimensional. Without the basic note you probably would not even hear the overtone, or just very very quietly.
The vibration of note and overtone give a feeling of fullness, completeness. You don´t know what it exactly is that you hear, but both create the acoustic experience and work together as unit, with the Radix position in the foreground taking the lead, while the Duad hums in the background.
Coming back to my example:
It is through Pluto and plutonic experiences that I access my “background note/ identity”. If someone else puts a personal planet onto it, he would trigger my Duad Sun and I feel a vague hard to grasp sense of identification with him, which may surprise me, especially if his Sun doesn´t vibe with my Radix Sun.
There might be a deep resonance with their Radix planet on my Duad Sun, though not easy to consciously understand or verbalize.
Sometimes the harmonizing is with both, Radix position and Duad position of the same planet.
For example someone else´s Radix Sun on 7°25 Libra vibrates with my Duad Sun on 11 Libra, albeit a bit widely, and my Radix Sun on 26 Sag vibes with his Duad Sun on 29 Sagittarius. In this case both of us might feel as if we really “get” each other, maybe feeling understood completely for the very first time (on the solar level in my example).
There also might be considerable fascination, as the Radix person seems to exhibit very openly and naturally the qualities that the Duad person has inside, and which Is usually taking second place to their own Radix position of the Duad planet that is being triggered.
If this connection of Radix to Duad positions between two charts is made of complimentary energies like Sun and Moon, or Venus and Mars, the attraction might get extremely strong, though sometimes inexplainable.
But to even get to my inner identity (Duad Sun), one has to go through my Radix Pluto first. Thus the conjunctions in my chart means that my Pluto carries a bit of my identity inside or a part of my identity is plutonized. I need kathartic and intense experiences to even feel this inner side of my identity. Therefore my Sun has a bit of a Plutonic feel.
In my case you can´t get one without the other.
So actually if someone aspects my Pluto, it is not a Pluto aspect alone, but it is a Pluto-Sun-aspect that is triggered in me, with a Pluto being very big and obvious, but bringing a much less obvious Sun-quality with it."
(Duad = Dwad)
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Post by lumina on Jul 26, 2020 12:21:11 GMT
Interestingly that experience of the playing together and of musical composition, the structure, the building up became very tangible for me just yesterday, when listening to and being driven to review the album of whom I just called my "inspirational aquaintance". It kind of reminded me of that little essay where I compared the Dwad/ radix interrelation to musical composition, and it was something he created musically in exactly the way I envisioned it (just more intelectually). How weird. Almost makes me wonder if there is a special Dwad-synastry at play here.
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Post by Ava on Jul 26, 2020 14:19:29 GMT
I'm confused. What does the equal sign mean there...that you can use the same interpretative strategy for each? In case anyone is not familiar with these mini zodiacs... So the dodecatemoria chart is a duad chart, not dwad. Edit: Nevermind, I didn't know the astrologers failed to achieve consistency with the naming here.....see below. === My duad sun @ 9 Cancer. Yes I do relate to that and I've been saying for a long time, pretty much all the famous women I know of who were born on my birthday (Cancer duad) have families, cook, and many of them write cookbooks or do videos teaching about food. My...wait for it... DRACONIC duad sun is @ 9 Pisces. My tropical duad NN is @ 0 Cancer, which would give me a 9 Aries draco duad sun if they simply converted the duad chart into draconic; instead, they must have broken the draconic chart into duads, which does make more sense. Anyway, yes, tropical moon @ 18 Pisces, duad moon @ 8 Libra conjunct Jupiter @ 12 Libra.
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Post by lumina on Jul 26, 2020 14:46:44 GMT
Ava I was using the terms interchangeably. That is actually a problem with the terminology, as astrologers use them just as they feel like it. Alice Porman differentiate them into Duads and Dwads, Pam Crane calls them Dwads, and really means what Alice Portman calls Duads (she does also explain why the term Dwads is more correct than Duads), and others might find even other ways to call them, so it is really getting tedious. And we always have to read closely what they are REALLY referring too. The chart on astro com is what astrologers like Pam Crane call Dwads, and what Alice Portman calls Duads. Here in this thread I am only referring to the Dwad/Duad chart of astrocom: the dodecatemoria chart.
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Post by lumina on Jul 26, 2020 14:56:05 GMT
"My duad sun @ 9 Cancer. Yes I do relate to that and I've been saying for a long time, pretty much all the famous women I know of who were born on my birthday (Cancer duad) have families, cook, and many of them write cookbooks or do videos teaching about food (Nigella "How to be a Domestic Goddess" Lawson, Ree Drummond, Hilaria Baldwin, Gabby Reece). " Which is a good hint towards the validity of these D-charts. And interestingly seem to manifest clearly in the outer world too. Cappy Sun with D-Cancer, very cardinal.
"My...wait for it... DRACONIC duad sun is @ 9 Pisces. My tropical duad NN is @ 0 Cancer, which would give me a 9 Aries draco duad sun if they simply converted the duad chart into draconic; instead, they must have broken the draconic chart into duads, which does make more sense." We can experiment with it, but since the D-charts or positions are really a refinement of a basic zodiac, I am inclined more to considering the D-positions of the Draco-chart. Well my Draco Moon is at 6°57 Gemini, so Duad or Dwad or however we want to call it, is in Leo, at 23-24 Leo. Well the Duad of my tropical Moon is at 24 Leo, too, and I wonder if that is always the case? Are the Duads of the tropical being transferred to the DRaconic level?
Well my DRaco Sun is at 15°46 ARies, so the Duad of this would be on 9 Libra, pretty close though not exact the same as my tropical Sun`s Duad on 11 Libra, But then my Draco Venus is at 25°58 Aries, which puts the Duad on 11-12 Aquarius (so not near to my tropical venus-Duad), from that I guess that it is just a pure coincidence that my Sun and Moon have the same Duads brought up in tropical and Draco. But oh my, isn`t that interesting?
"Anyway, yes, tropical moon @ 18 Pisces, duad moon @ 8 Libra conjunct Jupiter @ 12 Libra. So all conjunct my duad Sun on 11 Libra.
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Post by Ava on Jul 26, 2020 19:31:10 GMT
The chart on astro com is what astrologers like Pam Crane call Dwads, and what Alice Portman calls Duads. Here in this thread I am only referring to the Dwad/Duad chart of astrocom: the dodecatemoria chart. Ohhh... Is Alice Portman the only one to mix these up (along with everyone who follows her)? www.astro.com/astrowiki/en/Dodecatemoria
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Post by lumina on Jul 26, 2020 19:50:42 GMT
Yes could BE that she introduced the Term, but I do Not know for Sure.
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Post by ishtarmy on Nov 13, 2020 3:42:09 GMT
Okay, this topic is interesting. I looked into it some time ago, I even have my own data of celebrities' dodecatemoria chart. I find this chart as one of the essence of our birth chart. This is Aretha Franklin's birth chart with some singing ability indicator asteroids. There's no aspect between Mercury and Neptune here. The asteroids aren't prominent in this chart either. Let's look into her dodecatemoria chart Look at the almost star David pattern in this chart. Notice that her dodec Mercury, SN, and Neptune are conjuncting each other, opposing NN, Polyhymnia, Kalliope, widely oppose echo. Also, her dodec AC, MC, Sun are in Taurus, while her Venus and Mars are in Libra.
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Post by glaucus on Nov 24, 2020 7:57:23 GMT
Dodecatemoria are subdivisions of the twelve signs of the Zodiac into a further twelve parts each. These can be said to form a "micro-zodiac" of 144 dodecatemoria, each corresponding to 2.5° of the ecliptic. In an alternate usage, the dodecamorion refers to a point on the ecliptic reached by the addition of twelve times a given number of degrees within a sign, either to the original degree, or to the beginning of the sign. This system, used in Hellenistic astrology but less favored by later ages, apparently originated in Babylonian astrology. The name "dodecatemoria" is a Latinization of the Greek δωδεχατημόρια (singular Gr. δωδεχατημόριον, L. "dodecatemorium" or dodecatemorion).[1] The same concept is expressed by Hebrew: השנים עשר in Hebrew and by اثنا عشرية in Arabic.[2] The Babylonians used the word 𒄩𒆷 (ḪA-LA), pronounced zittu, defined as "share" and "part".[3][4] Assyriologists call this system the "microzodiac". Within each sign, the dodecatemoria are arranged beginning with the sign itself and proceeding in the normal order. Thus, the first dodecatemorion in Virgo is Virgo and the last is Leo. Hellenistic computation Let T be a point at degree D of sign S. Add 12×D degrees to the beginning of sign S. For example, to find the dodecatemorion of Capricorn 17, multiply 17 by 12 to get 204, and move 204° past the beginning of Capricorn. One arrives at Cancer 24. Cancer is the seventh dodecatemorion of Capricorn, corresponding to Capricon 15–17.5°. At the same time, Cancer 24 can be given as the exact "dodecatemorion" of Capricorn 17.[7][8][1] In Manilius's Astronomica the dodecatemoria are further subdivided into five half-degree parts, each corresponding to a planet.[8][1] Babylonian computation In an alternative and seemingly older Mesopotamian system, the dodecatemorion of a point in the heavens is computed by adding the degree multiplied twelvefold not to 0° of its sign but to the exact degree in question. In symbolic terms: Let T be a point at degree D of sign S. Add 12×D degrees to D. Or, equivalently, add 13×D to S.[9] The result is a micro-zodiac of thirteen sections, with the first and thirteenth identical, and 13° movement per day.[5][10] Cuneiform tablets from Babylon, possibly originating under the period of Persian rule (539–331), describe the system of multiplying by 12 to find the dodecatemorion associated with a degree.[7] The earliest possible date for the use of the Babylonian microzodiac is naturally constrained by the earliest possible date for the zodiac itself, generally given as circa the fifth century BC.[9][6][11] The Babylonian system was apparently adopted by the Greeks, who frequently attributed astrological knowledge to Chaldeans or Egyptians.[9] The Latin authors Manilius and Firmicus both describe calculations of dodecatemoria.[1] Ptolemy in the Tetrabiblos, however, dismissed the computation of dodecatemoria as illogical.[6] Abraham Ibn Ezra, a Hebrew scholar writing in the twelfth century AD, described two systems. In one system, attributed to Egyptian scientists and gentiles, a sign of 30° is subdivided into 12 sections of 2.5°, corresponding to a sequence of the seven heavenly bodies, with repetitions. In the other, attributed to Enoch and the Ancients, each degree within a sign corresponds with one of the twelve signs, starting with the sign itself. In the latter system, the cycle repeats two and a half times within each sign; for example, the dodecatemoria of Libra would begin with Libra in the first degree and return to Libra at 13° and 25°.[2] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodecatemoria
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