7 years cycles

[lumina]

This will not contain astrology (yet), but an aquainted actor was mentioning on his site that him and his colleague were having their podcast, well actually it is only a podcast now during Corona restrictions, but originally it was a gathering to read from books or self written stuff the audience brings, and located in a very cute crowded small cafe. 

Anyway he was mentioning that their reading-project (not sure how to call it. lol) started on 10th july 2013, so they were celebrating their 7th birthday, and well the year 2013 (I did not know about that reading-stuff then btw, I only came later to it) is a bit of a sensitive demarcation year for me. But when he mentioned that I was reminded of what I had once heard that the blood and the cells in the human body get completely renewed after 7 years. So I wrote them in my birthday wish that as well, that they were basically completely new people now. 
It was meant as a joke of course, he reacted very sweetly to it (like he usually does, because he is just a sweet person, at least when the two of us are dealing with each other; other people surprisingly do not always consider him as sweet and kind as I experience him. Curious. anyway.)

I was then getting a bit thoughtful cause obviously that means that my cells have completely renewed themselves, too, in that time. So in terms of my blood-cells I am not the same person as I was 2013, 7 years ago. 

Somehow that was a startling revelation to me. lol 

Obviously 7 years in astrology relate to a Saturn-cycle, as transiting Saturn takes 28 years and some for a full circle and 7 years for making a "trigger" aspect, as I read in several astrology books. Well breaking it down, it means that those are the points of conjunction, square and opposition (sort of mimicking the New Moon, Quarter Moon and Full Moon as major aspect phases, just in terms of Saturn - and well Saturn is very intimately connected to the lunar cycle anyway: Saturn takes almost 29 years for a full cycle. Moon takes almost 29 days for a cycle. And I think the progressed Moon takes approximately 29 years to complete a full cylce, well it is always 28 plus x )


But anyway,just wanting to verbalize it here. We are new. And this is probably the conclusion of a 7 years cycle, something reflecting 2013 or so. Not sure, I guess it depends if we were having important Saturn-transits, if we had, important Saturn-transits in 2013, then Tr Saturn might be having a trigger-aspect, a 4th harmonic aspect, to the same natal planets somewhen these months/ this year. 

Obviously if our big Saturn-transits happened 2012, the year 2019 would have marked the conclusion of a Saturn-cycle. and so on. 

Just putting out these thoughts here. But somehow this startled me, this thought of: I am not the same as I was 2013, in very biological terms. (of course I am not the same! I know that I am not, but something about it, just really struck me. lol)

[lumina]

If anyone`s wants to check, in 2013 Saturn was transiting 


9 - 11 Scorpio direct

turning retro on 11 Scorpio (19th february 2013)
11 - 4 Scorpio retro

turning direct on 4 Scorpio (8th july)
4 - 20 Scorpio direct


Seeing that, we are not quite there yet, I suppose. the current Saturn-transit, at the end of Cap/ beginning of Aqua would probably rather bring us back to the end of 2012. 
So here the transits from 2012


28 - 29 Libra direct

turning retro on 29 Libra (8th february)
29 - 22 LIbra retro

turning direct on 22 Libra (25th june)
22 Libra - 9 Scorpio



Well the according current Saturn-transiting placements (a square forwards) are


22 Cap - 1 Aqua (from 7th january on)
turning retro on 1 Aqua (11th may)

1 Aqua - 25 Cap retro 
turning direct on 25 Cap (29th september)

25 Cap - 1 Aqua



And then for 2021:

1- 13 Aqua

turning retro on 13 Aqua (23rd may)
13 Aqua - 6 Aqua

turning direct on 6 Aqua (11th october)
6 Aqua - 11 Aqua


Right now Tr Saturn is on 29 Capricorn, retrograde, so that would put a reflection on 8th february - 2nd march 2012, so approximately spring 2012 is our comparison-point. Of course our planets progressed since then and it is a square further, but still seems those time periods might be connected in some way, at least if there were strong aspects to our natal or progressed charts then. Also of course a harmonious aspect would in some way repeat, too. But the nature of the aspect would change; for example if there was a trine of Tr Saturn to let`s say natal Venus on 29 Gemini or Aquarius, the current Saturn position would be quinkunx or semisextile that and vice versa. 

[Ava]

Jul 12, 2020 11:44:57 GMT lumina said:

Right now Tr Saturn is on 29 Capricorn, retrograde, so that would put a reflection on 8th february - 2nd march 2012, so approximately spring 2012 is our comparison-point. Of course our planets progressed since then and it is a square further, but still seems those time periods might be connected in some way, at least if there were strong aspects to our natal or progressed charts then. 

 
My natal Saturn is @ 0° Leo, Rx, it's my half-return. Tr Saturn conjunct pr Venus. It's hard to draw comparisons when current life is so bizarre. 

You know what's gonna be fun, if I live that long...7 years from today I'll have:

- Transiting Saturn @ 27 Aries on natal MC
- Transiting Pluto @ 6 Aqua on natal DSC

[lumina]

Ava,

"My natal Saturn is @ 0° Leo, Rx, it's my half-return."
Yes, or as I saw it when it happened to me: Tr Saturn opposing n Saturn (my Saturn is rx too).
Half returns are important, I think we might not give them the attention they deserve. Or maybe not. lol Well but anyway a transiting planet opposing itself in the natal chart, especially with the non-nonsense-face-reality-and-do-your-work kind of planet that Saturn is, it`s huge. I mean it is an opposition, it`s like something from the outside comes to shed a real glaring light onto our natal planet. With a conjunction sometimes it is so merged, so close, we do not quite see what`s going on, but the opposition is very clear. 
And in the case of Saturn we might not like it a little bit, what we see in the outside world that seems to just throw one spammer after the other into our works. 

Or maybe it is completely different, I am open for  other suggestions.  

For me this half-Return or Saturn opposition to itself happened in february 2019, then on 13th july 2019, the retro hit (I heard that often the second hits are the most major ones, but then I also heard that the first and last hit are the major ones, so I guess either could be THE hit, or all of them. Anyway since my Saturn is rx natally possibly this was of special significance to me). 
and then my last hit of this was in november 2019. Well, while I can relate certain events to all of these hits, I do think the most farreaching one WAS in july, so check to that theory. lol 

Well nothing ever happens in an empty space so to speak, so focusing on the mid july there was other "noise" by transiting planets: 

Tr Chiron conjunct natal IC, (already in orb, but exact on 27th august)
Tr Chiron trine natal Mars (19th june, 21st august retro,  the last hit must have been somewhen in 2020, anyway onc emore the second hit WAS major, actually almost to the day)
Tr Chiron square natal Venus (was coming into partile orb, but not into exact aspect in 2019, the universe saved this for this year )

Tr Pluto conjunct natal Sun/Moon (28th january, 29th july rx, 3rd december)
Tr Pluto opposite natal Vertex (27th january, 1st august rx, 1st december)


Tr NN conjunct natal Saturn (19th august)
Tr mean NN conjunct natal Saturn (20th july)

Tr Uranust trine natal Venus (8th july)

Tr Mars square natal Uranus (4th july)
Tr Mars trine natal Mars (10th july)
Tr Mars trine natal ASC (13th july)
Tr Mars trine natal Neptune (17th july)
Tr Mars trine natal NN (17th july)
Tr Mars opposite natal Moon (28th july)

Tr Venus trine n Uranus (4th july)
Tr Venus opposite natal Venus (8th july)
Tr Venus square natal Pluto (11th july)
Tr Venus trine natal Jupiter (12th july)
Tr Venus conjunct natal Saturn (17th july)
Tr Venus square natal Uranus (29th july)


I`d say the first important timeframe started roughly a week after that retro hit of Tr Saturn opposing n Saturn. As you can see around that time the transiting Venus - mean NN conjunction were conjunct my natal Saturn, and obviously opposed by transiting Saturn. 



"Tr Saturn conjunct pr Venus."
Tr Saturn was conjunct my natal Venus in 2018 (february, june, november).
Actually it is conjunct P`s Venus this year (february, september, october)

Well every chart is different so everyone might react different to that transit. 




"It's hard to draw comparisons when current life is so bizarre.
"
Yeah you would think so, but then again, life was bizarre back then, too, just on a more internal level I suppose, or a less global, more individual level. 

I found it interesting however that this timespan came up, because that was probably one of the two times I deliberately decided to stay out of P`s life for real and not ever seeing him again, and just be "realistic". Well I guess we know in hindsight that me being realistic is not always realistic. lol 
But still there was isolation and separation going on, in not seeing him or actually each other, but even more so on a more psychological level. AT least until august that year when that good intention completely broke down. lol 

Well I later learned that life must have been VERY difficult for him during this half year / 8-9 months, not because of my absense. lol I don`t think I am that important. But while everything seemed to be rather okay on the surface, he was breaking up with his long term partner, and he later on referred to that time as one of the toughest periods of his whole life (well Tr Saturn had been on and off squaring his natal Venus the first half of 2012 until autumn or so), and then it must have become a rather amazing year, as he obviously met the woman who was going to become his wife. 

But anyway, I probably will edit this out in a bit, but curiously enough we have ALWAYS crossed paths a couple of times during summer, of course more frequently and directly in recent years, but I do not recall ONE year we have not met. Except 2012 - though I was back again in august that year, and he obviously noticed. I don`t really see that happening this august. But it jsut struck me that this is an isolating year as well. Very literally. This time definitely from an external source. But then again, well it may have started as an external force of separation (me from theatre in general, not just him), but if I am honest, there have been some occasions I deliberatedly decided to not be there in person. I just feel separative at the moment, at least in terms of bodily presence so to speak. lol 

Not sure why (but I did not sure why in 2012 either), but I trust that this keeping-distance is there for a reason. Even though I don`t know the reason. 

Anyway the parallel to 2012 is actually almost a little unsettling. lol 

Maybe I need that to re-adjust or re-categorize our aquaintanceship? 

Don`t know, anyway, things of course aren`t quite the same as they have been in 2012/ 2013, quite a few chapters have been written in between. B





"- Transiting Saturn @ 27 Aries on natal MC

- Transiting Pluto @ 6 Aqua on natal DSC"
Defintely a very significant timespan. 

Now as we come to observe, at least I seem to observe that, is that these outer planetary transits often do not behave the way we predict. I mean I have had the greatest most amazing things happening when Tr Saturn was squaring my Moon. Who would have expected that? 
Tr Saturn opposing n Moon had been much more challenging though, well they were both challenging, but the square was somehow more encouraging challenges. lol 

Tr Saturn square Sun was hell, Tr Saturn conjunct Sun was heaven, so to speak (a bit of a out-of-comfort-zone working heaven, but still). 
Question is why is that? 
Why aren`t those aspects manifesting textbook wise? 


I have no final answer to that, just some hunches, one of those saying that it might have to do with some of the other transits going on and also with inner planetary transits, esp. Mars and Venus, and possibly Jupiter, and obviously the nodal axis playing a big role, to see how something manifests). Pr Moon might also be a factor, or progressions in general, but as I said I do not have a final answer. Maybe I simply learned from the Tr SAturn squar eSun and Tr Saturn square pr Sun (4 years later - which sucked maybe even more than the originial one) and Satur was content with my work-performance and dedication for once. lol 

[lumina]

and why is it that the transiting MEAN Node seems to always coincide so closely in time with important events?

[Ava]

Hey lumina ,

"Yeah you would think so, but then again, life was bizarre back then, too, just on a more internal level I suppose, or a less global, more individual level."

I guess I should have said, speaking for myself, life is more bizarre now.

I'm getting lost on the math here. You're saying this year is like 2012 (?) but it's 8 years later, not 7....which is the thread topic. But I guess you aren't concerned with years but quarter-returns?

I don't remember much about last summer but I thought you were having fun.

Counting my life by 7s or aspects to my natal/pr Saturn...yes, something major happened each time...birth/death/wedding/something. Like at age 7, we moved from one town to another.

My pr Saturn in late Cancer squares natal IC in late Libra, and as I've said many of my family members have planets/nodes late Libra or early Scorpio. So what is affecting me is usually affecting them.

[Ava]

I just stumbled onto something I probably should have caught before:

The draconic "orbital period" of Jupiter is roughly 7.5 years at the baseline, not exactly regular.

11.862 years (orbital period of Jupiter)/18.613 years (nodal period) = 0.637

So Jupiter's draco period is about 64% of its tropical orbital period.

0.637 x 11.862 = 7.56

I caught this because transiting Jupiter Rx will be stationary next month @ 22 Aqua tropical / 20 Sag draconic. My oldest son's draconic Jupiter is @ 20 Sag (coincidentally his natal Jupiter is also at the stationary degree). He was born in late 1999. Then I saw the event chart for my father's death (early 2007) has draco Jupiter @ 21 Sag (on his tropical ASC). So that is roughly a 7 year difference. This is also extra meaningful because his death coincided with my solar return -- so that draco Jupiter placement was arguably in effect the whole year. (If it matters, I got pregnant that year, with my son whose Jupiter is tightly conjunct my sun.)

Normally I've been too lazy and my math-brain is too stuffed with cobwebs to determine an easy, direct way to calculate draconic orbital periods. But this just popped out at me. Hope I got that math right, it seems to actually be recurring less than 7.56 years. May have to revise.

Draconic Jupiter was @ 20 Sag in 2014, quite a meaningful year for me.

Draco Jupiter will be @ 20 Sag early October, 2028, almost exactly 7 years after its last transit there.

[lumina]

Cool finding, Ava

2014 was important to me, too. But 20 Sag does not has any tropical or Draco planets, so do not know why (my tropical Venus/Mars-mp is there).

oh sorry I never answered your questions, yes I was concerned with the actual Saturn-transits; it is approximately a 7 years cycle, but as you can see not exactly.

[Ava]

Thanks lumina.

Tr draco Jupiter was moving through your first house then, conjunct some of your Sag placements.

Jan 1, 2014: Tr draco Jupiter @ 10 Sag, Rx...it basically stayed right there on your true NN about 3 for months.

Early June, it was conjunct your sun-Mercury. It left Sag at the end of the month.


....I just realized your NN is exactly conjunct my draconic Saturn. If Saturn-SN relationships are past life, are we future life? See you in the 22nd century maybe?

[Ava]

I suppose what accounts for the discrepancy between that calculated 7.5 year baseline and the actual period which seems more like 7.1 is the fact that the NN is always moving.

7.5 years is about 40% of the nodal period, and that is about the same as the fraction of a year (40% of the year, 5-ish months) that's "missing" from my projected orbital period for draco Jupiter.

My Aqua Mercury brain just spit that out and I'm having trouble concentrating at the moment, to figure out why I thought that or whether or not it's worth the trouble of re-thinking it through. Maybe later I'll try and apply this math to other planets.

----

Edit

Can't figure this out

29.5 yrs, orbital period of Saturn
18.6 yrs, nodal period

29.5/18.6 = 1.59

So each nodal period represents 1.59 draconic Saturn periods?

18.6/1.59 = 11.7

I know the draconic Saturn period is around 11 years. I had my draco Saturn return in early 1999 (March), again in late 2009 (late November), but that math is too far off, it's not even 11 years. Furthermore this upcoming draco Saturn return around Christmas this year is a full 12 years after the last in 2009.

Can't figure out a standard formula.....

[Ava]

Jupiter stationed Rx the last day on 1991 @ 14 Virgo, trine my sun. In draconic it was @ 4 Sag, conjunct my Venus.

A week later I was on a flight to Paris for my 16th birthday, first ever direct flight from Philadelphia to Paris, totally serendipitous occurrence. The inaugural flight was incredibly cheap, and I wouldn't have known about it except my French teacher announced it to the class. I told my father and to my shock he picked up the phone and ordered tickets for me and my sister.

There was a huge party at the airport, the mayor was there (shook his hand). This was broadcast live on TV and my best friend happened to be watching the news that night, while on the phone with her boyfriend, and practically choked with laughter when she saw me in the background, gathering food from the giant buffet they had laid out, looking around while snacking. That was my big moment of fame.

That was a great year, 1992...tropical Jupiter in Virgo, things made sense. 1999, tropical Jupiter in Aries, very dense with activity (married, pregnant, motherhood). 2007, tropical Jupiter in Sag, my natal 5th house, totally involved with children and pregnancy...this began my "Elvis phase"...he's Sag rising so maybe it fits that way. 2014, tropical Jupiter in Cancer, exalted. Emotional education. 2021, Jupiter in Aqua, consumed with world events. 2028, tropical Jupiter in Libra, ostensibly some overall theme of beauty and harmony.

Jupiter/Sag is about learning so I'm looking at experiences through that lens, ie "What was the big experience, and what was the lesson arising from it?"

[lumina]

Sept 15, 2021 14:04:32 GMT Ava said:

Early June, it was conjunct your sun-Mercury. It left Sag at the end of the month.


....I just realized your NN is exactly conjunct my draconic Saturn. If Saturn-SN relationships are past life, are we future life? See you in the 22nd century maybe?

Good call! 12th june 2014 (which was when the comment on that concert was being made ): Tr Draco Jupiter 25°27 Sag
on the same degree as both, tropical Sun and MErcury,

Sun/Mercury-mp: 25°30 Sag, so that is interesting. 

Also curiously Transiting Draco Saturn on 20 Aries that day, same degree as my natal Chiron. 


And yes, both Saturn-SN and Saturn-NN seem to feature prominently in very lasting relationships, so yes, surely we`ll meet again. 

[lumina]

Ava

your 1992 sounds just awesome, like what great memories to have! My 1992 sucked, to be honest. Very difficult year. 

Anyway, in 2013 transiting tropical Jupiter was exactly conjunct my Draco Jupiter on 1 Cancer, at the beginning of july, basically also in the midst of the hardest, most painful phase I can remember in my life.