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Post by Ava on Jul 10, 2019 15:50:06 GMT
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What kinds of factors would create a situation where people's feelings for each other are brought to life, intensified, magnified, when there is a crisis or stress?
I'm talking about a kind of dysfunctional situation where the pair might even be bored with each other unless there is at least some hint of a pain-drama going on. I know that might just be each person's upbringing, but I think synastry might push people in that direction sometimes, regardless?
Moon's in Scorpio as I write....
Well it's gotta be something more than just Scorpio/Pluto/8H?
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Post by Ava on Jul 10, 2019 23:18:00 GMT
Maybe my OP was too specific, maybe that doesn't happen all that often? I was thinking of this relationship I had:  That's his noon chart so he may not be a Pisces moon, but he really seems like one. So yeah, the "love is pain" theme applied here. Astrology? * His sun opposing my Chiron, his Chiron on my MC * His moon probably falls in my 8th house...and with moons being in the same sign, that might be a situation that "plummets," if both people are down * His Mercury-Pluto sextile my Venus, I don't think I ever find anger attractive, except with him, yeah I did. * Maybe he has a moon-Mars-Uranus grand trine, connected to my Scorpio Uranus. It was a kind of emotional drive that came out suddenly, rarely, and then was impossible to ignore. Pls don't quote |
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jul 10, 2019 23:49:42 GMT
Well it's gotta be something more than just Scorpio/Pluto/8H? Hmm.. I was going to say Uranian people might also have something to do with this.
Gotta go now, but I'll be back later.
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Post by FruityLlama on Jul 11, 2019 13:28:18 GMT
I'd agree with the placements you mentioned although I was also looking at the Chiron-Jupiter x2 cluster there which looks like its squaring your sun, your CR. Jupiter is the ruler of your 5th house as well. Further to that, you mentioned Uranus, which is your 7th house ruler and it could square his moon depending on where it is. The neptune-pluto connections, whilst generational, include your venus and his mercury in the mix. If you both indeed have pisces moons, along with your Venus-Neptune conjunction sextiling your plutoes(haha?) and his mercury,it may suggest something along the lines of "love is pain". Especially with easy aspects, as the love and the pain will be easier to integrate in some way (for some people, it may not even be apparent until later). Venus-Neptune-Pluto I think could create an illusion of love in any situation, which I don't think is bad on it's own (obviously depends on the situation), but I'm considering the chiron aspects too, in addition to the fact that important house rulers of yours are involved. Did this relationship change your opinion of yourself, how you want to present yourself to the world and future relations Ava , if I may ask? In terms of generally getting bored unless there is some sort of drama or pain going on, I would agree with 12YearsABlob that Uranus would be the trick, and that would be found in the natal chart as well as synastry I guess. |
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jul 11, 2019 13:51:47 GMT
In terms of generally getting bored unless there is some sort of drama or pain going on, I would agree with 12YearsABlob that Uranus would be the trick, and that would be found in the natal chart as well as synastry I guess. Right, thank you (your analysis of the synastry is great too). That's where I was going (the distinction between Uranian and Plutonic "drama"). IMO --
Not feeling intensely connected unless something exciting or dramatic happens is Uranian type of bonding. Uranus doesn't actually like pain, real pain. In fact, it'll flee the minute things get too heavy (Pluto won't). Uranian drama has some exciting highlights that keep things from getting stale. Also, surprise surprise, the coming-together-breaking-apart gives Uranus the occasional freedom it secretly desires.
Aspects: Natal, synastry and/or composite Uranus involved with personal planets.
With Pluto, you pretty much don't have a choice. The intensity and drama are ever present. The shadow side co-exists with deep love. It's obsessive, compulsive - you don't get a breather from time to time, like with Uranus. There's no question of getting bored - anything they do or say is intensely fascinating (even if they so much as breathe). You're too wrapped in each other to not face the downside of that much intimacy. The reverse can happen - typically with composite Venus-Pluto - where they unconsciously keep re-creating that intensity because they come to associate it with love. But once their feelings settle down, they have a very strong, deep bond underneath all that drama. Aspects: You get different kinds of intimacy with different Pluto aspects..
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Post by FruityLlama on Jul 11, 2019 14:37:47 GMT
That was really well written 12YearsABlob , thank you! I just realised me and SO have Venus trine Pluto in the composite and what you wrote resonates. I'm Uranian though so Pluto energy can quickly overwhelm me and I need an outlet for it (I've probably moaned on here a few times). So my understanding is that Uranus is more of a push/pull which can lead to a version of pain- or probably more like exhaustion. Pluto is like probing deeper and deeper until you get to the core, which can be painful- sometimes it comes with a need to expose each other and figure out power plays between the couple. But what is love in fact?! Astrology is great as you quickly become aware of different expressions of love. It may not be one thing, or mean the same thing to everyone- as you said, different types of intimacy with different pluto aspects, or other planets I guess. And to some people it may even be associated with pain.. |
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Post by Ava on Jul 11, 2019 17:36:58 GMT
You ladies are so insightful -- thank you! This is the kind of conversation I was hoping I'd be able to read.  12YearsABlob , what you wrote about Pluto reminds me of Kahlil Gibran's depressing/exciting poem "On Love." www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/148579/on-loveHe and I have the same Cap sun sextile Scorpio NN, but he's got Taurus Saturn on the SN and Taurus Pluto on the DSC, probably MUCH heavier tastes than I ever had, like I don't want anything claustrophobic. Like you FruityLlama, I am Uranian and would get restless...I don't want love to be a dinosaur that swallows me for dinner. (Though I know we don't always get a choice.) |
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Post by Ava on Jul 11, 2019 18:01:55 GMT
The neptune-pluto connections, whilst generational, include your venus and his mercury in the mix. If you both indeed have pisces moons, along with your Venus-Neptune conjunction sextiling your plutoes(haha?) and his mercury,it may suggest something along the lines of "love is pain". Especially with easy aspects, as the love and the pain will be easier to integrate in some way (for some people, it may not even be apparent until later). I'm following that! Yes, I think that is relevant. Strangely I was just thinking last night about that Neptune-Pluto sextile and how it might explain why my Pisces moon can have such a disastrously negative imagination sometimes. Even a sextile from Pluto is just too much whispering darkness. Sometimes ground zero just feels safer because at least it's grounded (expecting the worst). Did this relationship change your opinion of yourself, how you want to present yourself to the world and future relations Ava , if I may ask? Edited/shortened: This was a turning point relationship. Sorta like everything before this was normal, and after that, I wasn't handling things right and believed I should just be alone. |
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Post by FruityLlama on Jul 11, 2019 20:00:12 GMT
Ava, haha Pluto is indeed a dinosaur! I think "whispers" is a wonderful metaphor for sextiles actually. Thank you for replying to me by the way and being so candid, I can tell that situation moved you. I'm sure you are much better at romantic relationships than you give yourself credit for. Astrologically, this seems to resonate with the Chiron-Jupiter in Aries, square CR party going on there- questioning your role as an independent person generally and whether that makes you happy or not. I am sure you a loving and lovable person whether you choose to be coupled up or not though . I hope this doesn't seem too random, but it made me think of this poem:- The Guest House This being human is a guest house. Every morning a new arrival. A joy, a depression, a meanness, some momentary awareness comes as an unexpected visitor. Welcome and entertain them all! Even if they are a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still, treat each guest honorably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. The dark thought, the shame, the malice. meet them at the door laughing and invite them in. Be grateful for whatever comes. because each has been sent as a guide from beyond. — Jellaludin Rumi,
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Post by Ava on Jul 12, 2019 2:53:56 GMT
Thank you for the kindness, FruityLlama. And I love that poem! Copying for safe keeping. My Jupiter-Chiron is conjunct draconic Venus-Neptune, bringing the "love is pain" theme a little closer to home. I think I wanted my independence usually, but fell into one sticky situation after another, and didn't have the maturity/tools to extricate myself without hating myself (it's super easy to guilt trip me). Well sorry for wallowing in the past but I guess with Mercury Rx conjunct my Saturn, and Saturn-SN on my sun, I keep feeling like I have to find and reckon with the cold, hard facts of myself. Not dead yet, still time to improve. |
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Post by FruityLlama on Jul 13, 2019 11:23:38 GMT
I'm glad you liked it, I find it such a sweet description and way of looking at life! That's understandable Ava it can be hard to find that balance between honouring your own person and merging with the other in relationships. I sometimes wonder if that is the main purpose of having relationships at all- we learn more about ourselves from those connections than we do from ourselves. People are like mirrors- sometimes they distort though like those weird mirrors you get a fair grounds. Self reflection is always a good skill to have and it's the best way to learn, no one can blame you for not having the tools etc at the time- its all a learning curve after all. I hope you find peace with your past and that you are able to go forwards much happier- I am certain you will! Thank you for opening up to me as well <3 |
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Post by Ava on Jul 13, 2019 20:18:04 GMT
*sniffle* That was beautiful, FruityLlama! For what it's worth, I think Scorpio NN people might have an especially difficult life journey when it comes to relationships, since Scorpio's idea of "merging" can be at a whole other level, and it feels like a mandate. So whether that is achieved or not, there's something uncomfortable about it (in my experience). My life has been complicated and I've explained that from the beginning, when I joined LL in 2011. I had spent some months in reflection before signing up. "Do I really want to tell my life story? Put this on the internet?" There is a saying, "Share your shame," and that resonated with me. I have not lived a typical life, much of my story is not relatable whatsoever. I guess that's why I talk about it anyway. To add to the number of unrelatable life stories out there. The more people do that, the more it sorta does become relatable (I hope). Anyway, thanks again, you're awesome. |
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Post by anela on Jul 14, 2019 0:20:53 GMT
I don't know. That doesn't happen for me. I don't like to be around people who are constantly stressful, but I think once a relationship is established, it's harder to break away. At least for me, I rarely let anyone go completely.
That's what concerned me about talking to S. again (the guy I've talked about). We're still in touch a tiny bit, but I don't know if it's a good idea. We can really "get" each other, and used to have a laugh, and talk a lot, but it can also turn toxic. *I* can be toxic now. He was one who helped to bring it out in me. Our composite says something about a strongly romantic connection, but also a strong fighting connection. I don't want to be fighting with anyone. I remember when I left him a few angry voicemails, years ago, and my voice was calm and clear, because I was pissed, and wanted to make myself clear. He sent me a message stating that he didn't think it was my intention, but he was really enjoying my voicemails. he was flirting. I'd forgotten that he liked my voice - such a stereotypical Taurus thing.
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Post by anela on Jul 14, 2019 0:28:15 GMT
You ladies are so insightful -- thank you! This is the kind of conversation I was hoping I'd be able to read. 12YearsABlob , what you wrote about Pluto reminds me of Kahlil Gibran's depressing/exciting poem "On Love." www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/148579/on-loveHe and I have the same Cap sun sextile Scorpio NN, but he's got Taurus Saturn on the SN and Taurus Pluto on the DSC, probably MUCH heavier tastes than I ever had, like I don't want anything claustrophobic. Like you FruityLlama , I am Uranian and would get restless...I don't want love to be a dinosaur that swallows me for dinner. (Though I know we don't always get a choice.) I don't want to be smothered either, and I grew up with the idea that relationships = pain. I really wanted to avoid that. |
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Post by anela on Jul 14, 2019 0:52:24 GMT
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Post by Ava on Jul 14, 2019 13:24:19 GMT
anela, Your ASC exactly conjunct his IC in Scorpio, that looks intense and somewhat binding. His sun-Moon on your DSC, wow.... Mercury conjunct Mercury for *getting* each other. Mars trine Mars, I think that adds to the baseline understanding, and it matches what you said about getting angry and he thought it was attractive. Especially water Mars. Such a nice composite stellium, but the opposition from Libra Uranus looks potentially problematic. Well you two have sun opposing Uranus both ways in synastry, so at least it's balanced in that respect. I'm guessing that it's easier to deal with hard aspects in composite if they reflect the synastry. That way the people can work with the energy more directly.
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Post by lumina on Jul 14, 2019 15:35:43 GMT
I am not sure about that. I think it is potent for attraction (or sometimes repulsion) and a sort of "(soul)recognition"; however in terms of hard aspects, esp. combining personal and outer planets, it might also intensify/ magnify the qualities and also issues inherent in the aspect. On the flip side people might "get" each other, but on the down side, they also might instinctively push those red buttons in each other simultaneously, and that could lead to an explosion, depending on the planets involved. |
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Post by FruityLlama on Jul 14, 2019 16:05:40 GMT
Aw thank you Ava! Ooh goodness, I never considered a Scorpio NN by itself- that does make sense. I am a Scorpio NN too coupled with Pluto in 5th, Neptune in the 7th and Sun/Moon on the SN... I guess my expectations may be quite up there really. That is true about sharing and adding to the unrelatedness (is this a word?!) out there. Additionally though, just because something isn't immediately relatable doesn't mean its not relevant, understandable or at least a learning tool. Sharing is caring too haha!! Aww bless you Ava, you are awesome too! <3 |
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Post by Ava on Jul 14, 2019 18:18:35 GMT
^ Thanks FruityLlama ! <3 (Would've said more but I don't want to keep talking your ear off! But thanks for being so understanding.) lumina , Mercury conjunct Mercury? |
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Post by lumina on Jul 14, 2019 20:35:32 GMT
Ava no, the same hard aspects in synastry as a DW (or even coming up in both natals) between personal and outer planets repeating in the composite. I think it is really an either-or-thing. Could enhance the understanding or create a lot of havroc in a relationship. In any case it would be a core theme.
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