ciel
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Post by ciel on Jan 12, 2019 11:12:29 GMT
I think so. Virgo rules 6th house as you know. And there is a myth about persephone hades and ceres. Libra constellation was added next to the scorpio later in order to balance things up because scorpio and virgo were too strong on being gloomy, problem oriented etc. Persephone is hades' wife so they thought libra as an extantion to scorpio. Later fixed. Well virgo is the ruler of 6th house; protection of child ((leo)right above the 5th house), caretaker, earth, virgo literally means spike/grain in turkish, ceres being the ruler of such (ceres was the caretaker of persephone in her early years, also she doesnt know what to do without her) its quite suitable for ceres but since virgo is exalted in mercury it should be also ruled by pallas (mind/problem solving/organising). And since the symbolsing of virgo is virgin. It should be vesta as well. My theory is virgos energies are seperated: Caretaking=ceres mind=pallas will/purity=vesta. Ceres vesta pallas are all female/sisterhood asteroids. Ceres, motherhood, caretaking, fertility of earth, unrequited love. Vesta, the virgin fire, gives focus, the will to keep fire lightened, core, pure. Pallas mind, reason, organising. All three are reserved pure energies. Virgo: earth, virgin, analytical, server, giver. I mean we need a difference between gemini and virgo. Because I think gemini's main thing is being ruled by mercury. Gemini (also known as hermes) is fast, (mercury being fastest planet) virgo is not known as being fast (having fast movements) he stole the fire and gave it to the humans (mercury; bridge between two worlds) the reason virgo is exalted in mercury could be because of its version in pallas. So maybe in a way virgo is seperated just like lilith.
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Post by Ava on Jan 12, 2019 14:04:00 GMT
I agree that Virgo is a complex sign...but three rulers is too many.
How about Chiron?
Chiron is about two things, so it's almost like two rulers in one. Virgos do all seem wounded, for the same reason Pisces is wounded, the modern world is too ugly in too many ways to support their idealism. And Virgos gravitate towards healing professions and health food.
And while Virgos can be super intelligent, I still don't see how Mercury is exalted there, because they can be so focused on details they miss the bigger picture (no offense to them).
edit - hard to tell where Mercury would be exalted
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ciel
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Post by ciel on Jan 12, 2019 14:11:07 GMT
Yeah sure not everyone reflects their sign perfectly (ex: scorpio). But its the potential of the sign, so.
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Post by lumina on Jan 12, 2019 14:25:48 GMT
Ava yes, actually when Chiron was being discovered it was associated with Virgo and Sagittarius. Some astrologers propose Vulcanus as the right ruler of Virgo, I am not sure it is a real planet though. lol On the other hand what about the other centaurs? Are they being given rulerships too? Mercury actually does make sense, as a ruler, we just associate him too much with the quicksilver like quick Morning-star Mercury, but as an evening star he exhibits different qualities. # MErcury as morning star is Mercury-Prometheus, Mercury as evening star is Mercury-Epimetheus, and the latter one I associate with the Virgoan expression of Mercury. "The Epimethean-Direct mental type is characterized by a growing sense of a long-range, objective and historical perspective. It symbolizes a mind in which eagerness and impulsiveness have given way to careful deliberation. Here the calculated risk replaces the intuitive gamble. It is often seen in the birth charts of gurus, spiritual teachers and religious leaders — transmitters and custodians of the many particular traditions. If your Mercury type is Epimethean-Direct, you probably have a practical, objective and analytical mind leading you to act on the basis of facts and past experience rather than on hunches and gut-feelings. Your well-organized mental faculties enable you to manage people and run things. But in doing so, you may need to keep an open mind and avoid rigid thought patterns. As a third face of Mercury type, you are success-oriented and work hard to fulfill plans and goals. To realize your goals, you draw upon knowledge acquired though past experience and by observing the achievements and mistakes of others. Indeed, this is the main area were Promethean types and Epimethean types most differ in their approach: Promethean types eagerly forge ahead to pursue a vision or intuition flash; Epimetheans, regardless of how intuitive and impulsive they may be, tend to first distance themselves mentally and attempt to look at things objectively, to consider what past experience can offer the situation. Epimetheans can be daring and radical thinkers, but they tend to see their free-thinking as part of a tradition operating within a historical context or movement. " khaldea.com/planets/merc_ed.shtml
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jan 12, 2019 15:17:13 GMT
I don't know about rulers, just thinking about the energies here.
While Vesta has Virgo-esque energy (dedicated, tending to something meticulously, keeping the 'flame' alive, etc, I don't think the other two are necessarily 100% Virgo.
Pallas, for instance, is much more nuanced than "mind, reason, organizing". I can't summarize it well right now, but here are some links to help you understand the nature of Pallas:
Ceres has both a lunar flavour as well as a Virgo flavour (IMO).
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ciel
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Post by ciel on Jan 12, 2019 15:45:26 GMT
of course pallas is more complicated than that I just mentioned the most obvious key words. Its the alpha female they call. But if you are an alpha there are no genders in social life (right?). So pallas being the most favorable child of zeus I think its because of the awareness pallas has and she overcomes stuff with common sense beating ares etc. She born thought zeus' mind so that kinda explains. I just think virgos giving/caretaking/duties are more associeted with ceres. Moon has similar qualities but 6th house is about serving also comes after the 5th, as I read somewhere it said after the child (leo) virgo is there to take care of it.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jan 12, 2019 16:50:53 GMT
of course pallas is more complicated than that I just mentioned the most obvious key words. Are they, though?
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Post by Ava on Jan 12, 2019 16:56:48 GMT
Thanks lumina - adding this link that gives the overview: khaldea.com/planets/merc_type.shtmlAnd from there: "It’s easy to determine your Mercury type. First locate the Sun in your birth chart. If Mercury is clockwise from the Sun, it is Promethean. On the other hand, if Mercury is counterclockwise from the Sun, your Mercury type is Epimethean. If you’re simply looking-up someone’s data in an ephemeris, notice if Mercury is ahead or behind the Sun in the zodiac. If the Sun is further along the zodiac than Mercury, then Mercury is Promethean. If Mercury is further along the zodiac than the Sun, then Mercury is in its Epimethean phase. While you’re at it, check to see if Mercury is retrograde (indicated by the character Rx in Mercury’s column above the date row). For example, if Sun is ten degrees Leo and Mercury is two degrees Leo, retrograde, then Mercury is Promethean-Retrograde. In a horoscope, retrograde planets are indicated by the Rx symbol." Well I still don't quite like Mercury as the ruler of Virgo. I think they don't want to be gurus, they're more private than that, and devote themselves to others' healing more individually and specifically....while gurus are more general. Though as musicians, okay yes...Virgos are gurus. I mean, Beyonce.....
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ciel
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Post by ciel on Jan 12, 2019 16:57:16 GMT
? isnt pallas is the mind ?
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jan 12, 2019 16:59:11 GMT
Thanks, Ava! I was going to ask lumina how to identify the types.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jan 12, 2019 17:08:16 GMT
? isnt pallas is the mind ? Is it? What makes it different from mercury, then, in your opinion?
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ciel
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Post by ciel on Jan 12, 2019 17:11:38 GMT
Actually same thing applies in venus too. It could be morning star or evening also it has 2 rulers. Even though I think taurus fits better. I dont think ruler of the planet is determined by its place to sun or the time. Because isnt epimetheus inferior and virgo is exalted? (I dont really know much but according to mythology) Some ppl who have virgo might show the opposite results. Because of the exalted signs being unstable unlike the ruler of the planet. They might either give great results or really bad ones. More like gambling on a great deal of money
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ciel
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Post by ciel on Jan 12, 2019 17:13:36 GMT
Well mercury is the mind (for sure) I thought everyone know that. So I called pallas like that. I didnt think it would cause misunderstandings. Just, in a place pallas was described as the best usage of mind so.
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Post by Ava on Jan 12, 2019 17:16:32 GMT
It's ironic you're commenting so extensively on mind power while writing in fragmented sentences and poor grammar ciel. If you're going to present your ideas in an authoritarian way, might as well proofread.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jan 12, 2019 17:20:27 GMT
Well mercury is the mind (for sure) I thought everyone know that. So I called pallas like that. I didnt think it would cause misunderstandings. Just, in a place pallas was described as the best usage of mind so. I'm still confused, that does not explain the difference between Pallas and Mercury. Could you please provide a link for that last line "pallas was described as the best usage of mind"?
And isn't the best usage of any planet - simply how we use it? Do we need an asteroid for that? We could use the asteroid "badly" too, right?
It's like saying - my windshield is the best use of this car and that's the difference between the two. Does that make sense to you? It doesn't, to me.
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Post by lumina on Jan 12, 2019 17:25:33 GMT
Ava thanks, Ava, for the way to locate. I have Mercury as morning star (Prometheus) and Venus as Evening Star (Hesperus). Well "Guru" depends on definition. Most people who have strong Virgo traits actually have a sort of Guru-aspect, at least as I understand the word: teaching by example. They tend to just set examples by their high standards. (It is a generalization of course, but that is where astrology starts I guess). ciel , Epimetheus has nothing to do with "inferior" in terms of a "judgement", but has to do with the cycle of Mercury or Venus (around the sun of course). Best you read the link I posted, the information is presented very clearly there.
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Post by lumina on Jan 12, 2019 17:28:37 GMT
And isn't the best usage of any planet - simply how we use it?
Absolutely.
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ciel
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Post by ciel on Jan 12, 2019 17:31:52 GMT
Well okay. English is not my first language but Im trying? I dont pay attention the words just the frequency and I write things compeletely based on that. Thats how I learned 4 languages without even trying and Im still learning at this time which means I can make some mistakes. If it bothers you so much you might as well show me whenever I make one. So that we can both benefit from it. Sorry if it bothered you
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jan 12, 2019 17:35:48 GMT
ciel , We're trying too. Sorry if that offended you, but we only ask that you put more thought into things before posting them. Some of your ideas are unclear.
We're happy to help with as many (astrology) resources as we can - but it would be nice if you actually read them. If you're going to talk about something a member posted, it shows respect to read it carefully before declaring an opinion. Another thing that would help is getting the basics down before jumping to asteroids. One can get really lost in all the seemingly meaningful, interesting asteroids that may or may not have any impact. After all, they are much, much smaller than the planets. They're a nice addition to your astro-knowledge, but not the place to begin, IMO. That way you can make the most of this forum.
:ETA: Just suggestions, of course - feel free to take em or leave em.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jan 12, 2019 17:40:38 GMT
Well okay. English is not my first language but Im trying? I dont pay attention the words just the frequency and I write things compeletely based on that. And that might be the problem? Would help to pay attention to what you're thinking, even more so than writing. It doesn't have to have perfect grammar, but we're trying to understand you and expect some level of involvement in the discussion.
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