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Post by Ava on Feb 1, 2018 16:44:57 GMT
oh Ava what kind of cancer fighting stuff do you do/take? I heard tumeric and black pepper were good for tumours etc Wow that's a long story... I'm gonna answer you on my Cancer thread. The other day I took my son to the children's dentist and the place was swarming with adorable little kids who all seemed ill with colds...coughing, runny noises, stuffed voices. Yesterday morning I started coming down with a cold, it even seemed to be racing down into my chest, so I ate lots of Airborne and Vitamin D gummies, drank hot tea, ate more gummies, and I was fine by the afternoon. The scientists say that Airborne doesn't work, but when I looked this product up at amazon, it had over 70% five stars, with comment after comment testifying that it works. It does work for me and my kids.
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Post by FruityLlama on Feb 1, 2018 17:16:29 GMT
Ava Oh gosh sorry I forgot to look on the Cancer thread, what an idiot I am haha!! I was answering in my break so I completely wasn't thinking Huh, weird..well, I suppose they say it doesn't work as far as killing the actual pathogen goes because viruses can't be killed, but if it lessens the the symptoms then you can't knock it really can you!! I like taking similar stuff too, and sleeping when it comes to flu/colds. But I never get the chance because of studying so I'm basically always ill. That and the fact that my nose is messed up anyway haha!!
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Post by Ava on Feb 10, 2018 14:46:37 GMT
It's really hard to believe that a perfectly healthy fitness expert is going to contract the flu and simply die overnight: people.com/human-interest/swine-flu-death-fitness-trainer/That's a narrative I never heard anywhere, growing up. Never heard of anyone dying of flu unless they were very old and this was just the straw that broke their back. But I'm convinced this is all basically part of a marketing campaign for flu vaccines: SCARE people into getting their shots. Well isn't it funny, this fitness expert did get his shot, and that's about the same time he started to become ill: dfw.cbslocal.com/2018/02/08/flu-claims-27-year-old-fitness-trainers-life/Meanwhile, People magazine is reporting it as if the guy got the flu one day and died overnight...and everyone should get the shot, so this doesn't happen to them. Basically, they are giving the exact opposite lesson that I am taking away from the story.
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Post by Violets on Feb 10, 2018 18:10:40 GMT
I'm just gonna leave this here.
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Post by lumina on Feb 10, 2018 18:37:07 GMT
I think (Personal opinion, not a judgement) that absolute statements into each direction (pro/contra) are too simplistic.
There are agendas of the pharmacies (selling their products mainly), but there is also a downplaying of actual healthrisks, of course depending on the general state of health as well as age, living conditions, etc.
And yes, people die from flu overnight. My parents had it happened in their aquaintances, I think 2 or 3 times. However I do think that it certainly was not the flue alone, but probably something else (undetected) adding to that.
And yes, people also can die or have series aftereffects from measles, pocken (?) or tbc.
It wasnt that much of a problem until recently in GErmany, as some of those illnesses were as good as gotten rid of around here, but due to certain circumstances the numbers of infected persons get up again.
AT the same time however, while it is certainly recommended for teachers around here, I have never gotten and probably will never get a shot against the flu. It would be against ONE form of flu only anyway, and then with a weakened system I might contract a totally different variation of it. So just taking the risk, especially since I was speaking to some doctors who definitely stated they would not get a flu shot either. So why would I?
I am very glad that there is no obligation to get vaccinated in Germany, as I would hate being robbed of free will like that (and probably try finding a way around it anyway). However I do also think that vaccination is not in itself inherently "bad". That is also a too narrowminded perspective, just like the "you must vaccinate against anything" stance. In my opinion at least.
What I however find totally unreasonable and careless and stupid, are parents doing the so called "measles-parties". I don`t know if you have those over there as well, but parents meet up if one kid has the measles and join with other (healthy) kids, hoping and pushing for all of them getting the measles, including toddlers of just a few months old. The thought behind it being that they can go through it and then be done with it.
Unfortunately this in some cases ( has had the result of the kids contracting severe disabilities or even die.
I am all for free will and decide yourself if you get vaccinated or not (I do so, too, and in fact I SHOULD get a refreshing of my own measles vaccination, but well, I kind of am lazy and not too keen on it, despite having seen what it can do to grown ups too, if they get such "children-sicknesses" I guess I am just taking risks in this regard, but mostly I avoid thinking about getting sick, and concentrate on staying healthy), but intentionally infecting other people or children is a No-Go for me.
AS I said this is not meant as a judgement, just my opinion.
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Post by lumina on Feb 10, 2018 18:44:27 GMT
Oh and someone dies from a flu somewhere all the time. And many recover without problem.
"worst flu season in history" is just silly and a headline to gain attention and sell magazines imo. Every other year some paper wrote this is the "worst flu season".
The Spanish flu at the beginning of the 20th century in Europe - THAT was a bad flu (because it was epidemic and befell an already through wars and famine weakened population).
I really just find myself rolling my eyes at those dramatic headlines that pop up literally every day.
Doesn`t mean I don`t take the flu serious. But serious does not mean I need to overdramatize it.
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Post by lumina on Feb 10, 2018 18:47:37 GMT
Growing up, flu was no big deal, and we never had epidemics of it. Hmm, maybe the media works differently in our two countries. But the flue has always been a theme of articles at that season, when people got sick with flu. Sometimes we had an almost-epidemics, in other years the numbers were lower. But it has been reported about regularly before, too. At least here in this country, but not in an overly dramatic fashion, just stating some numbers.
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Post by Violets on Feb 10, 2018 19:17:34 GMT
I agree with you, lumina. It's a touchy subject for me, due to the way the US government and public schools (and media) push this stuff here. Our oldest has had reactions to all vaccinations, but the measles was by far the most alarming. Possibly because they insist on packing multiple vaccines into one shot, but he basically GOT the measles from the vaccination, and was sick for a week. The chicken pox vaccination also caused him to get a rash and fever, but far less extreme than the measles/mumps/rubella vaccine. I definitely believe in vaccinating against serious illnesses, but I wish they would offer the option of doing one disease at a time, and not be so relentless about it. When we had him vaccinated for measles, it was reluctantly due to a big media freakout about a bunch of kids contracting measles at Disneyland. I honestly don't know what to think of these things sometimes, because he basically got the measles anyway. Perhaps to a lesser degree, to be fair, but still concerning.
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Post by anela on Feb 10, 2018 19:56:44 GMT
I had a reaction to one of the few vaccines I had, as a teenager. I avoided getting a shot - they were giving out two in the same day, or around the same time - but I got the sugar pill for the polio vaccine.
I got really sick, had such a bad fever that I felt like I was in an icy wind, when I was curled up in front of a heating vent blasting 80+ degrees. The entire weekend was awful, and it took me a couple of weeks to get back to school. The doctor came out, and simply diagnosed me with thrush of the mouth, which is something that apparently hits those with a compromised immune system - and she blamed our dog. :/ Didn't ask about vaccines, or anything.
I used to get hit hard with everything. Sick four times a year, tonsillitis, measles, mumps, had it all.
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Post by lumina on Feb 10, 2018 20:11:13 GMT
VioletsI understand you, and yes, it is a touchy subject. "but he basically GOT the measles from the vaccination, and was sick for a week. " If I remember it right, I think the measles vaccination is a living-vaccination, which means that a - mild- form of the measles are possibly being experienced and as an effect the kid develops immunity? Not sure though. HOwever it IS alarming if there are strong reactions to a vaccination like that. I showed such a reaction to the vaccination against tuberculosis and my mom instantly broke it off (I never got the 2nd or 3rd shot as I was supposed to have); in this instance she showed good instincts; the vaccination itself was being bad or tainted or I don`t know how it is called. In some regions of Germany some babies developed disabilities and some even died as a result of the contaminated vaccine. In the following year our government stopped the vaccination-obligation and left it to the parents to decide. and there was no vaccination of babies against tbc for 2-5 years after that I think at all. Of course if you google that you won`t really find much on this on the internet. It`s nothing the pharmacies want to be published too widely I guess. I did find some mentioning of it in a doctorate paper however. just as footnotes of course. Anyway, that is the reason the tbc test is always giving positive results just because of that. (I had to elaborate on that a lot when I was having the medical examination for being able to teach at a public school - you are of course not allowed to have tuberculosis, and when the test was positive, well a lot of talking was involved, an x-ray of course, but eventually I found a doctor luckily who knew about that incident and that I was born in one of those years that have been affected by it). I was never vaccinated against chicken pox or it did not have an effect, as I was having the chicken pox as a child, well pre-teen. Ruined 5 of my 6 weeks of summer holidays! (of course when school started again I had recovered), and I still have some scars stemming from then (I`ve had them pretty badly sais my mom, and well I mainly remember the itching and scratching from then. But I must have also had high fever as my mom recalled that she was really alarmed when I started hallucinating for 2 days or so, because the fever was so high, I think it was during the child pox time, though it might have been during one of my various scarlet fevers, too, or angina or even middle ear inflammation. Well sounds I was sick all the time, but actually I was a pretty healthy kid, except for some of these. If being sick, I was like out of this world for 2 days with high fever and getting in a weirdly semi-trance state now and then, but after those 2 days it was like I had never been sick before. Maybe this is my fire Mars - a strong but short acuteness in those sick days. "I definitely believe in vaccinating against serious illnesses, but I wish they would offer the option of doing one disease at a time, and not be so relentless about it. " Yes, absolutely. Well my nephew got his vaccination against measles (and whatever), and luckily he was managing really really well. I mean you did not even notice any behavioural change, he wasn`t more whiney or whatever, he was just as cheery as he always is (unless we do not surrender to his will, then he can get really cranky.) " I honestly don't know what to think of these things sometimes, because he basically got the measles anyway. Perhaps to a lesser degree, to be fair, but still concerning. " Yes, I am on the same plate in this as you. I do not have a completel formed opinion on this. I mean children DO get sick from the vaccination in some cases, actually in many cases. On the other hand I have witnessed the exboyfriend of my best friend getting Rubella when he was in his 20s. And that was really alarming, too. Well of course the fear of getting infertile as it often happens if men get Rubella as adults, but luckily this did not happen. But also, he was so sick for some days, that there was a great cause of concern.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 20:28:03 GMT
I think one of the things to remember with stuff like this is that fear sells. So sad but scarily true. With the hype that the flu gets in the media and seeing free flu vaccinations being performed at work, I myself start wondering if I'm compromising my health by not getting it, then I have to remind myself that IT'S JUST THE FLU.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Feb 10, 2018 20:32:06 GMT
Violets I understand you, and yes, it is a touchy subject. "but he basically GOT the measles from the vaccination, and was sick for a week. " If I remember it right, I think the measles vaccination is a living-vaccination, which means that a - mild- form of the measles are possibly being experienced and as an effect the kid develops immunity? Not sure though. HOwever it IS alarming if there are strong reactions to a vaccination like that. ^ Yeah, that is how vaccinations work.* They're supposed to introduce antigens (the invading microbes that cause the disease) in order to get the body to produce the required antibodies to fight 'em off. Ideally, it's supposed to build your immunity to deal with things without having to have the disease - that's the whole point. You are likely to feel a bit sick afterward, because your body has essentially been invaded with pathogens. It's like training soldiers for combat by making them fight against 'enemy' soldiers that you, the teacher, has let loose on them. The vaccine is supposed to simulate the disease in a controlled manner, because otherwise it defeats the purpose. However, even if it is very 'controlled', it can still go wrong. Possible reasons: - certain groups of people do not have the genetic disposition to deal with certain kinds of diseases - the body is not able to fight off the antigens introduced. Instead of producing the required defense mechanisms, the pathogens take over. - etc. Over time, if enough generations have been protected against the disease, it disappears entirely. That's the long-term goal, I suppose. The trouble is, because of commercialization and commoditization of all this - who knows what standards are being implemented. What's the driving factor? When $$$ enters the picture, the well-being of people ceases to be a driving factor. Or so it seems, at least. I'd like to think that's not true... But that's what I see nowadays. "I showed such a reaction to the vaccination against tuberculosis and my mom instantly broke it off (I never got the 2nd or 3rd shot as I was supposed to have); in this instance she showed good instincts; the vaccination itself was being bad or tainted or I don`t know how it is called."^ Yeah...! Omg, glad she made the right call. It's scary out there. ----- * That's why blood tests are preferred over skin tests in some cases - for instance, TB screening. Skin tests cannot tell the difference between pathogens because of immunizations and actual disease-causing pathogens. So, if you've been immunized against it and take a skin test - it could still show up positive and say you have TB! When, actually, you don't.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Feb 10, 2018 20:34:41 GMT
It's interesting, but here in the UK it seems a lot of people in my office are getting sick. In fact, they even call the flu here "Australian" flu. I just learned that today LOL. Seems someone from Australia must have brought it. I haven't been affected yet and I hope I won't either. I've never had a flu shot nor do I plan to ever get one. I'll let my immune system do what it was made to do. So far so good. Yeah, some of my colleagues who haven't been sick in years were out for a week or two at the beginning of the year - suddenly taken by the flu. Maybe they've never built an immunity to it? Well, now they're better - so, perhaps they have it now.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Feb 10, 2018 20:37:00 GMT
I agree with you, lumina . It's a touchy subject for me, due to the way the US government and public schools (and media) push this stuff here. Yeah, the social pressure can be immense. Sometimes, even literally so - because they have strict rules in place, I believe?
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Feb 10, 2018 20:40:27 GMT
Oh and someone dies from a flu somewhere all the time. And many recover without problem. "worst flu season in history" is just silly and a headline to gain attention and sell magazines imo. Every other year some paper wrote this is the "worst flu season". The Spanish flu at the beginning of the 20th century in Europe - THAT was a bad flu (because it was epidemic and befell an already through wars and famine weakened population). I really just find myself rolling my eyes at those dramatic headlines that pop up literally every day. Doesn`t mean I don`t take the flu serious. But serious does not mean I need to overdramatize it. Hear hear! "The Spanish flu at the beginning of the 20th century in Europe - THAT was a bad flu" -- ROFL.
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Post by lumina on Feb 10, 2018 20:56:40 GMT
Hear hear! "The Spanish flu at the beginning of the 20th century in Europe - THAT was a bad flu" -- ROFL. Sorry, I did not mean to ridicule or diminish its impact. I know it was a tragedy really, on a pretty global scale. But I don´t like the fear mongering that is taking place in some medias, and that is absolutely counter-effective.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Feb 10, 2018 21:08:48 GMT
Yeah, I know what you meant.. Just laughing at the irony there.
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Post by Violets on Feb 10, 2018 21:42:58 GMT
I agree with you, lumina . It's a touchy subject for me, due to the way the US government and public schools (and media) push this stuff here. Yeah, the social pressure can be immense. Sometimes, even literally so - because they have strict rules in place, I believe? They do in the public school system here in the states, yes. It can be avoided if you really want to (mostly I only wish to delay vaccinations I don't find immediately pertinent, like Hepatitis B, or another dose of one that our son had an unusual reaction to, like the measles vaccine). For a novel's worth of reasons, we don't deal with the public schools anymore in our house, thankfully. Vaccinations being at the very bottom of our list, but still an obnoxious hassle if you get the wrong district nurse.
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Post by Ava on Feb 10, 2018 22:21:39 GMT
I think (Personal opinion, not a judgement) that absolute statements into each direction (pro/contra) are too simplistic. Well about media reporting, I do think it's simple: adhere to journalistic standards. If the family has said that he had been sick for months, the media should not fabricate a whole other scenario whereby he suddenly took ill and died overnight.
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Post by Ava on Feb 10, 2018 22:31:28 GMT
I think I'm just tired of being lied to. Vaccines do present a health risk. Parents should be able to review those risks, spend time with the pediatrician going over package inserts as well as consulting VAERS to check adverse reactions. There should be no pressure and bullying from anyone, considering the known and documented risks involved. K, hope that wasn't too belligerent sounding. I like these folks: physiciansforinformedconsent.org/
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