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Post by Ava on Oct 29, 2017 3:51:30 GMT
I just saw the forum has 666 threads, so I decided to rescue it. I believe that if you check your 5th harmonic chart (available at astro.com), your quintiles and bi-quintiles (144°) show as conjunctions, and orbs up to 5° are valid. lumina , what do you think of that orb? This is a *talent aspect*! Very interesting.... cafeastrology.com/natal/quintile_biquintile.htmlDo you have any quintiles? Or quintile stories?
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Post by lumina on Oct 29, 2017 9:18:27 GMT
Crazy i've just Bern thinking of checking the 5th harmonic chart in synastry yesterday. But dort of löst track of rhat.
In short 5th harm. Is about creating in any Kind of sense.
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Post by lumina on Oct 29, 2017 9:19:55 GMT
Yes to the ORB. In the harm. Chart this ORB will show quintiles that are weithin 1 degree in your natal chart.
Most astrologers who are using the quintiles would allow a bit of a larger orb though,a bout 2 degrees, some even 2,5 degrees, personally I like to keep it to about 1,5 degrees.
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Post by lumina on Oct 29, 2017 10:34:51 GMT
Basically agree with the video, except that I don`t think quintiles indicate that you want to display something, like being ambitious to show it. You do display it just because it is something you feel like. It`s a very playful energy, also sometimes driven, but driven to create because it is an instinctual urge and need, not to prove anything to the outside world. That sort of just happens as byproduct. There is a quirkiness to it, a rhytm, almost like a dance. and something rather unusual about it. Like you bring together things you normally wouldn`t think of bringing together, but if you put the ingredients together, something swirling and sparkling is created, definitely unexpected and sort of "new", a new creation. Here is what Dawn Bodrogi writes on quintile, and I like that as well (though I do also agree with Jewel`s take here, but the quintile is like this sparkling thing, and reflects a lot of light in different way, depending how you look at it). "Quintiles: Dividing the Circle by Five When we divide the circle by the number five, we get an aspect of 72 degrees. The meaning of five is complex. In sequence, it’s the first number to step out of the materialistic ‘box’ of the four. It’s the first number to transcend the four, which creates material reality. The five is represented by the pentagram, which shows a ‘four’ transcended by a fifth point above it. This fifth point acts as a funnel through which concentrated higher energies can flow down into manifest reality. The five is considered creative and is associated with the Sun (Leo). It is made up of the energy of duality (the 2) transcended by the 3. Natally, quintiles indicate gifts—the two planets can use their qualities in a beneficial, creative manner. Quintiles may show unusual talents or abilities that seem complete and god-sent—abilities that we don’t have to struggle to perfect. In synastry, between charts, quintiles can produce an almost other-worldly understanding of the way the individual planets are operating. If my Saturn is quintile your Venus, you will have an innate compassion for my Saturn issues, and I will instinctively know how to support your Venus. However, relationships dominated by quintiles often possess an other-worldly quality of their own, as if they don’t rely on the common things of this life to survive. Loves that continue long after the affair is over are often quintile loves." theinnerwheel.com/2010/03/27/breathing-refined-air-the-esoteric-aspects/Paul Westran on Quintiles "There is something uniquely unusual about your relationship, but the feelings you have for each other are no different from any other couple. The quintile bestows a creativity which stirs the curiosity. You both find each other fascinating, for different, but very closely related reasons. Attraction is what the Sun experiences and attracting is what Venus does. It can also be said that the Venus represents the control we all have to determine aesthetic taste, while the Sun represents a part of us that is projected and appreciated by Venus. While both astrological principles are different, they combine in such a way that their roles can be difficult to demarcate. When they connect by the quintile aspect, they tend to be poised in a dance of sublime complexity whose underlying principles are attraction and intrigue. Whatever your talents and gifts, the quintile in relationships urges you to combine them so that you can utilize them together on the same project. This is a temporary dynamic of your relationship, although it may occasionally last for a decade or more. Other couples who shared this connection at the outset of their relationship include: Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward; Enrique Iglesias and Anna Kournikova, and Robert and Ethel Kennedy." I came across it, cause it popped up in P`s and my progressed synastry report for 2014; it was pretty close then (I picked as starting date that concert, and the way we interacted or even actually just how he acted towards me can certainly be considered "quirky" lol). But in fact our synastry and composite does have some significant quintiles/ biquintiles; I wouldn`t possibly call it a quintile-synastry, but the energy is certainly present in certain ways.
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Post by lumina on Oct 29, 2017 11:40:11 GMT
This is P`s 5th harmonic chart. Of course the orbs that astro.com uses for the other aspectsi n this harmonic chart are much too wide. Nevertheless it is clear to see that he has a 5th harmonic configuration with Mars-Jupiter-URanus. Mars and Jupiter are actually conjunct in the natal chart, and both are quintile Uranus. Also IC is part of it, as Mars-Jupiter is quintile IC, and Uranus is biquintile IC. Moon on MC is opposing this in the 5th harmonic chart, which means that Moon is in a 10th harmonic aspect (decile or something of that order) to the quintile-configuration. Usually the oppositions in a harmonic chart seem to relate to bringing the harmonic into the external world, so in this instance it might indicate how his Moon is taking the inherent creativity (Mars-Jupiter-Uranus) which is part of his very core (IC) and bringing it into external manifestion through his MOon and in a pretty public way. At least that is how I would intereprete it. There is also an interesting relation between Ceres-Venus-NN here, none of these come up as conjunction in natal chart so they must be in a quintile-patttern. What we have here is: Venus biquintile NN 0°33 Venus quintile Ceres 0°53 Ceres biquintile NN 0°20 This alerts us also to the possibility of some midpoint configuration. If A and B are biquintile AND quintile C, then C must be on the midpoint of A and B Same is true for other hamonics too of course. like if A and B are opposite and both are square C, C must be on the midpoint of A and B. Anyway for the mentioned configurations it looks like this: Mars square Sun/URanus 0°55 Mars square Moon/Uranus 0°05 (the square happens because Moon is opposite the the stellium in the 5th harm, and not conjunct) Mars conjunct Uranus/IC 0°15 Jupiter square Sun/Uranus 0°01 Jupiter square Moon/Uranus 0°52 Jupiter conjunct Uranus/IC 0°42 and for the other configuration NN opposite Venus/Ceres 0°06 (Pretty straightforward. lol) Personally I think - even though I rarely take the effort to have a thorough look - that it makes a difference which harmonic is underlying the midpoints. I mean any midpoint configuration that is made on the basis of a 3rd harmonic configuration (Grand Trine) might be expressed a bit different than if it was made up from a T-square or even a Quintile-Yod. Here in the first example, I guess the fact that it is the quintile-basis, even intensifies the quirky and entertainment factor, that already si present with Jupiter-Uranus. I think Mozart had actually some similiar 5th harmonic aspects (though of course there were differences, too). He had: Sun biquintile Mars Sun biquintile ASC Mars quintile ASC and Jupiter biquintile Uranus Uranus on DESC for making these midpoints: Sun square Mars/Uranus Sun oppoiste Mars/ASC Mars opposite Jupiter/Uranus Mars square Jupiter/ASC Jupiter opposite Sun/Mars Uranus square Sun/Jupiter Uranus conjunct Moon/MC (and of course some more). I just found it interesting that for both of them a 5th harmonic Mars-Jupiter-Uranus pattern seems to exist. Intersting in particular cause when P was portraying Mozart in a musical, he mentioned afterwards that he had almost been feeling guilty just how easy it was to slip into that character; or as he put it, "It was no work at all. Basically I just had to be myself". (particularly in relation to his rather zany playfulness that sometimes can cross the borders of good taste. lol)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2017 15:16:17 GMT
Hmmm my 5th harmonic Sun is conjunct my natal Uranus by 1° Then my 5th harmonic Uranus is conjunct my natal Moon by 0°44 I guess I was just destined to be a professional nutcase Not off base really!
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Post by lumina on Oct 29, 2017 17:07:08 GMT
5th harmonic placements conjunct natal placements do not relate to the quintile aspects though. They might be symbolically interesting, but it´s not what Jewel was talking about.
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Post by Ava on Oct 29, 2017 18:38:50 GMT
Yes to the ORB. In the harm. Chart this ORB will show quintiles that are weithin 1 degree in your natal chart. Most astrologers who are using the quintiles would allow a bit of a larger orb though,a bout 2 degrees, some even 2,5 degrees, personally I like to keep it to about 1,5 degrees. I saw someplace that up to the tenth harmonic, the orb should reflect the actual harmonic. 4° orb for 4th harmonic 5° orb for 5th Etc Is that just forcing an artificial sense of order? Maybe it should be more like 10° for all?
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Post by Ava on Oct 29, 2017 18:43:40 GMT
Thanks very much for the extra information, lumina. I have Mercury quintile Jupiter for a bizarre, anything-goes sense of humor, which has gotten me out of trouble sometimes....just cracking an odd joke to release pressure. I also have Saturn quintile Pluto, I've read both praising and damning interpretations, and remain a little ambivalent. Astro.com lists quintile for synastry? I need to check. I think I never checked before. Strange that it's a minor aspect if it applies to Leo and the SUN, you know?
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Post by lumina on Oct 29, 2017 18:51:02 GMT
Yes to the ORB. In the harm. Chart this ORB will show quintiles that are weithin 1 degree in your natal chart. Most astrologers who are using the quintiles would allow a bit of a larger orb though,a bout 2 degrees, some even 2,5 degrees, personally I like to keep it to about 1,5 degrees. I saw someplace that up to the tenth harmonic, the orb should reflect the actual harmonic. 4° orb for 4th harmonic 5° orb for 5th Etc Is that just forcing an artificial sense of order? Maybe it should be more like 10° for all? It`s the idea to keep the orb of the harmonic aspect in the natal to 1° exactly. 1° in the natal for a quintile will show as 5 degrees in the harmonic chart, 1° for a novile will show up as 9° in the harmonic chart. Most harmonic astrologers I have read use an orb of approximately 12° for a conjunction in each harmonic chart. For the natal chart that would mean an orb of about 2° and something in the natal chart, for a novile it would be about 1° and a bit. To be honest it is your choice of preference. 1 degree is a fine guiding line for minor aspects though. personally I use 1,5 degrees. But that is just my preference.
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Post by lumina on Oct 29, 2017 18:57:20 GMT
there is a bit of mixing up going on with aspects and signs. Maybe it fits, maybe it doesn`t. Well the quintile seems to resonate well with the 5th house idea, so who knows? Maybe it does fit. Though the septile certainly does not vibe with Libra/7th house, event hough some astrologers try to push that meaning onto it. Major aspects have traditionally been the ptolemaic aspects, conjunction, opposition, trine, sextile. And nope, not even the quinkunx. It comes from the zodiac, and the relationships between signs. Harmonic astrology uses a completely different approach, and a true harmonic astrologer probably wouldn´t make the differentiation between major and minor aspects anyway. My personal take on this is, that I believe mostly in the lunar cycle as basis for aspectrelationships, well I know of course about other approaches too and they have their validity, but as humans we are much more goverend by the lunar cycle, the phasal relationships between Sun and Moon, day and hour, year and month, than us computer astrologers give astrology credit for.
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Post by Ava on Oct 29, 2017 18:57:40 GMT
I just found it interesting that for both of them a 5th harmonic Mars-Jupiter-Uranus pattern seems to exist. Intersting in particular cause when P was portraying Mozart in a musical, he mentioned afterwards that he had almost been feeling guilty just how easy it was to slip into that character; or as he put it, "It was no work at all. Basically I just had to be myself". (particularly in relation to his rather zany playfulness that sometimes can cross the borders of good taste. lol) That's a brilliant analysis and I like to think of P as a Mozart figure.
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Post by lumina on Oct 29, 2017 19:06:58 GMT
I just found it interesting that for both of them a 5th harmonic Mars-Jupiter-Uranus pattern seems to exist. Intersting in particular cause when P was portraying Mozart in a musical, he mentioned afterwards that he had almost been feeling guilty just how easy it was to slip into that character; or as he put it, "It was no work at all. Basically I just had to be myself". (particularly in relation to his rather zany playfulness that sometimes can cross the borders of good taste. lol) That's a brilliant analysis and I like to think of P as a Mozart figure. he was completely insane! LOL WEll for large parts of the musical, esp. if someone else was having their moments on stage but he had to be around, he was loitering around at the edge of stage and chatting with some girls in first row and stealing their cookies! (I must say though that these open air concerts are somewhat "special" anyway. lol) I also remember the time I was there, his micro stopped working at the end of the first act, but there was no problem hearing him anyway, as if he did not even need it, and well, that sais something about his voice. lol Okay the bird was not his fault, but I actually was there when that video was made, and it indeed was sort of a special performance, bird or not. lol I think you can sense a bit about the athmosphere back then, and well seems it were simpler times, weren`t they?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2017 19:28:53 GMT
5th harmonic placements conjunct natal placements do not relate to the quintile aspects though. They might be symbolically interesting, but it´s not what Jewel was talking about. I see, thank you for that clarification lumina! I just woke up when I wrote that but I feel slightly more alert now I have a fairly wide Moon/Jupiter conjunction in my 5th harmonic (4°) in Leo.. I wonder about that. I deeply admire Leo (and Sagittarius qualities) though I doubt I give off that vibe myself irl.
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Post by lumina on Oct 29, 2017 20:08:42 GMT
4° in 5th harmonic chart is actually pretty close; so you might have in your natal chart a conjunction, quintile or biquintile between those two.
I have an extremely tight Moon-Mars quintile in my chart, with just 4 minutes of orb. Still not sure about it. lol
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Post by Ava on Oct 30, 2017 2:38:17 GMT
5th harmonic placements conjunct natal placements do not relate to the quintile aspects though. They might be symbolically interesting, but it´s not what Jewel was talking about. I see, thank you for that clarification lumina ! I just woke up when I wrote that but I feel slightly more alert now I have a fairly wide Moon/Jupiter conjunction in my 5th harmonic (4°) in Leo.. I wonder about that. I deeply admire Leo (and Sagittarius qualities) though I doubt I give off that vibe myself irl. That looks like a really fortunate placement! Do you relate to this? From the link above: "Moon Quintile or Bi-Quintile Jupiter You seek out environments that are enjoyable and interesting. While others may be preoccupied with their responsibilities or goals, you have a knack for discovering enjoyable places where laughter, creativity, and happiness abound. Whether rich or poor and regardless of your background, you find enjoyable activities like games, parties, exploring various ethnic styles, or simply by enjoying a creative and interesting approach to daily activities. You can also help others to lighten up and drop their worries by simply being open to what is interesting and enjoyable in their own lives."
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Post by Ava on Oct 30, 2017 2:44:25 GMT
4° in 5th harmonic chart is actually pretty close; so you might have in your natal chart a conjunction, quintile or biquintile between those two. I have an extremely tight Moon-Mars quintile in my chart, with just 4 minutes of orb. Still not sure about it. lol "Moon Quintile or Bi-Quintile Mars For you competition is great fun. You want to win, but even more than winning, you appreciate a competitor who forces you to improve your 'game' and to develop creative strategies to win. You love the competition and you love the celebration that follows if you are victorious. You are most compatible with people who find challenges enjoyable and entertaining. For you play is like work to others, and your work is like play." Huh? Doesn't sound like you, do you even engage in competitions? Maybe you've won by rising above pettiness when you were young. I like that video you posted, was that before P got married? He looks so happy.
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Post by lumina on Oct 30, 2017 22:14:32 GMT
I like that video you posted, was that before P got married? He looks so happy. Yes, many many years before! In fact that was just a few weeks after we first met and spoke, and only a few hours after we crossed each other`s path on the parking place but did NOT speak. lol Anyway he actually had been looking pretty pissed (which I only later understood, as the one playing his father had to cancel on short notice and someone else was taking over pretty much only hours before the show started - which I guess is always a bit difficult for the whole team). But on stage he was very sunny, so to speak, plainly insane if you ask me. lol It was a bit of a weird day. First walking into his path, then at the show another actor was coming in from the side and was persisting on kissing my hand before getting on stage. It was of course part of the role, but I was in a bit of panick mode when I noticed him coming straight towards me and was actually turning my head away, I mean there were so many other women who would have loved for that moment, but the actor insisted it had to be me. lol I realized only the next morning that we were staying at the same hotel when we bumped into each other in the breakfast room. lol I also remember the look that hit me from stage, well from P though not the other actor, a bit later. I mean I`ve been looked at by people, also men,b ut noone really looks at me like he does, and has done from the first moment our eyes met, to get all mushy here. lol It`s not easy to describe actually. But I am not sure looks should feel like they have "substance"? Like they are something almost tangible? Just weird. I mean it`s not always like that, sometimes he did veil his look somehow, at least in later years, but not really nowadays, and even if he does while looking at me straight, he doesn`t when I catch him looking at me sideways when he thinks I don`t notice. But I do. Notice. AT least some of the times. lol And on that show back then I met a girl and we`ve been talking for a very long time, even standing in front of my hotel, and I remember for some reason the black cat coming up to me. But then again cats always do. Come up to me, I mean. I also remember the cat`s eyes flash suddenly, even though there was no car or no light that could be reflected in the cat`s eyes. But then again, that is also not unfamiliar to me. Cats sometimes do that around me, just as they sometimes accompany me on my way to school or whereever, usually in the dark hours of the morning or at night. Anyway the weird thing is that that young woman and me were chatting pretty long, nothing too unusual, though if I don`t misremember she mentioned even back then that it looked like P liked me. lol which I was not wanting to hear back then though. lol But anyway the weird thing was that later my parents were telling me they had come to the location, and look for me, but did not see me there so they left again (they were staying in a neighbour village for the weekend and having holidays as well). That is not even the weird thing, but the fact that they had been where I was at the same time like me, but we didn`t see each other. And I remember that, it was, there was noone around,w hich nowadays feels strange, cause there are always people around in that village. lol It`s like I slipped into a different dimension for a few hours. lol I guess there will be a different more rational explanation, but hey, the story fits Halloween, doesn`T it? In a nice way. But anyway long answer to your question. This was 7 years before he got married, just a few weeks after we met, and a few weeks before I decided to never see him again. *rolleyes* What can I say? Mercury was retrograde! lol (poor Mercury, he is always the scapegoat for bad decisions we make!)
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Post by Ava on Oct 31, 2017 20:09:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 23:58:39 GMT
in my harmornic I have jupiter conjunct MC, what does that means...?
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