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Post by Ava on Jan 4, 2019 14:42:42 GMT
What religion were you born into? Are you still affiliated with that religion? What do you like most about it...or if you've left, what fond memories of it do you retain?
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I grew up Catholic, attended Catholic school from kindergarten through 12th grade.
'Always had my reservations about it, from my earliest memories I was critiquing, disagreeing, standing apart. I refused to go through with the sacrament of Confirmation and called myself agnostic in high school (sitting at the back of the church when our class had to go to mass, refusing communion, and acting as if I was never initiated into "The Church" at all.)
Generally speaking, I strongly dislike Catholicism.
Yet I retain fondness for certain elements:
- candles, incense, atmosphere
- stained glass windows
- song lyrics
I find myself singing Catholic hymns sometimes. I just like them a lot. They carry spiritual messages that I find worthwhile. Such as:
"Oh Master grant that I may never seek so much to be consoled as to console, to be understood as to understand, to be loved as to love with all my soul." (Make Me a Channel of Your Peace)
"Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me."
"Sing a new song unto the Lord, let your song be sung on mountains high, sing a new song unto the Lord, singing Alleluia."
Reminds me of my parents and the lessons they were trying to instill in me. I'm thankful for that. Even though the religion was not right for me.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jan 5, 2019 3:51:22 GMT
Hmm.. It's great that you've come to a place where you can take what resonates and leave out all the rest. Despite the burden of memories and the temptation to reject it outright. It's true that if we strip the dogmatic packaging, there are some decent lessons in there. I wonder if the stories they are couched in are for our benefit. Perhaps the writers thought we'd be more apt to swallow mythological constructs than outright preaching about the do's and don'ts of life.
As for me, the religious part of my upbringing was a mixed bag. The pursuit of spirituality came in waves and the nature of it was always shifting. Consequently, the rules were confusing and kept changing. (Not complaining, though, who wants rigid religious rules?). I guess all three of us lived by that "take what resonates and leave out all the rest" principle. I am even farther from all those religious practices than I was in my childhood and now subscribe to an eclectic mix of "religious" ideas, if I can call them that.
Still quite likely to dive into something new, if only to test the waters and see how it feels.
My parents had the square and the conjunction between Mars and Neptune, so that explains it. I have the quintile, which Jewel Mayberry says is a mix of an easy and a difficult aspect. That is kind of funny, I'm literally the combination of their individual aspects. And it's true, my relationship with religion is also neither easy nor difficult, but a strange mix of the two.
*** Please don't quote ***
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Post by Ava on Jan 5, 2019 13:08:46 GMT
Lovely answer 12YearsABlob, thank you. Yes, stripping away the dogmatic packaging, we can find some jewels. Well I doubt I'll ever be an outright Buddhist, but I have a casual interest, and from what I gather, Buddhists also believe in moral absolutes, adhering to definite rules in line with their beliefs in right/correct and wrong/incorrect. I don't know why these strictures don't bother me as much; maybe it's partly because Buddhism promises a definite reward in this lifetime, and transcendence. We don't have to do all these things and then arrive in heaven as our same selves - we change. (Well, according to the Protestants, we need to be born again on this earth, but that idea is pretty foreign in Catholicism. My takeaway from Catholicism was, I sinned enough up to age 5 to have to be praying rosaries and begging forgiveness for the rest of my life. Even if I didn't know exactly what I did wrong, I probably did something wrong accidentally.) The way most religions revolve around the ego is problematic in my opinion. But at least they tend to get the "Love other people and serve them" thing right. And basically, square one, the belief in a higher being or higher consciousness is something I've never really lost. Other explanations for the universe don't make sense to me. Well that was a ramble.  |
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Post by Ava on Jan 5, 2019 13:21:01 GMT
Oh and 12YearsABlob , How do you see Mars/Neptune aspects playing out in one's religious life? My father had sun-Mars sextile Neptune (on my mother's sun), sun-Mars quincunx Pisces Jupiter. My mother had Mars trine Neptune (possibly conjunct her moon). I have the opposition as you know. So Mars has had to reckon with Neptune, and I've gone to church an awful lot, tried to make something productive out of this, but eventually (or maybe temporarily) just quit. My natal Mars is Rx and therefore very slow. My progressed Mars is only 3° past natal Mars and pr Neptune doesn't move much either, so this opposition was something almost stagnant over the course of my life. Only now are pr Mars and Neptune separating, so maybe that can open up new opportunities, for Mars to assert itself without so much fog. |
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jan 5, 2019 16:29:27 GMT
I do think Jupiter plays into it as well, albeit with a different flavour.
When it comes to Mars-Neptune aspects, it’s more about their inner journey, IMO. The hard aspects tend to have a contentious or dynamic (often both) relationship with spirituality. With the opposition, at any given time - one of them is “winning”, and the other gives in. So, for a while Mars (actions, drive) would work in service of Neptune, until they reach breaking point, a personal crisis of belief. Then Mars breaks away and up-ends what Neptune was trying to instill. And so it goes, until they find common ground. Since Mars is the inner planet, it has a harder time asserting itself against Neptune. The opposition seems to be about negotiating the needs of the two.
The square is more of a persistent involvement and a highly unstable one. The “seeking” here is unrelenting and almost obsessive. All Mars-Neptune aspects are “seeking”, to some degree. But the hard aspects have a powerful need to find a spiritual outlet that satisfies both. While the opposition may see-saw between the same principles from time to time, the square engages in more dramatic changes of direction, more frequently. They’re just as extreme if they find something to latch onto - that becomes their cause célèbre.
The opposition is like that couple that goes without fighting for many a year and one fine day, somebody blows up. That changes the dynamic. The square is like that couple that makes a ruckus everyday and the neighbours call the cops. So the conversation between Mars & Neptune in a square can get very heated indeed.
The easier aspects are more or less at peace with their belief system, which they seamlessly integrate into their lives. Even if they do break from the traditions they were brought up in, it’s a smoother transition. They don’t experience it as a crisis, the way hard aspects do. The conjunction is different in that they can be involved with spirituality almost involuntarily - it’s part of who they are, and it finds expression some way or another. They have the best of the hard and easy aspects, I believe. They have the strength of conviction of the hard aspects, and the fluidity of the easy aspects. I know someone with the conjunction that’s changed a huge part of their lifestyle in their 50’s.
Much as they dislike being heavy-handed, Mars-Neptune people are hyper-aware of ego traps. The dichotomy with these aspects is that, the ego (Mars) is sensitized by Neptune - but we’re also trying to cast it off (again, Neptune). That’s where all the spiritual seeking begins, because instinctively, these people know they have to dissolve the ego if they’re going to express any of their Neptunian qualities. The reason it’s hard is - aside from the fact that we’re only human - the sensitivity of their own ego-self gets in the way. While they may be hurt by perceived slights way more than necessary, they can also be the most accepting of such oversteps because of their compassion. They’re able to see it from a collective vantage point, as opposed to the individual.
Religion can be tempting because it offers a way to do that. Ironically, religion can lure them right back into those ego-traps they were trying to escape. The individuality of Mars struggles against the collective nature of Neptune. The holy grail for Mars-Neptune people, is finding the path that preserves their sense of self while also allowing them a connection to something bigger than themselves. That surrender can be the most empowering thing, when they’re not afraid of losing themselves in it.
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jan 5, 2019 16:35:22 GMT
^ Sorry for the essay up there. I'll try to edit it better later. The way most religions revolve around the ego is problematic in my opinion. Absolutely. Oof, I've had lengthy debates with my friend about this one. I am not a fan of the reward/punishment method. Most religious texts have some version of the carrot and the stick. It kind of makes me suspect everyone who toes the line for those reasons. What if you take away those consequences? Would they still be on their best behaviour? Or even decent behaviour for that matter? Maybe I'm being too harsh about it, but morality rooted in fear of consequences doesn't appeal to me.* I'd like someone who was an asshole to me simply because they wanted to be more than someone who was fake-nice for fear of hell. The former has more integrity, in my opinion.
* Guess I should add that I'm strictly speaking of morality & personal motivation here. Societal consequences for crime and such is something else, and I'm not touching that with a ten-foot pole. 
P.S. I was actually arguing with my friend that we don't need to be taught consequences, but compassion. If we grow up fearing only consequences, it gets dicey. Not saying our instincts are inherently bad, but being taught so can make them less reliable. It's complicated and I'm all talked out for today, so maybe this can be clarified another day. Or if you already know what I'm getting at, thank you.
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Post by Ava on Jan 5, 2019 16:51:49 GMT
^ Sorry for the essay up there. I'll try to edit it better later. No! OMG you are BRILLIANT. *puts crown of flowers on your head* (That's what we did for the statue of Mary at mass in grade school, so the imagery is there, but you see, this is a totally new use for the old idea. Repurposing religion. ) You should write astrology books. |
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Post by 12YearsABlob on Jan 5, 2019 17:06:05 GMT
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Post by Ava on Jan 5, 2019 17:10:07 GMT
12YearsABlob, if I could just borrow you in real life for several hours, I'd be happy. I really want to hear all of your thoughts about religion, and ask what you think of my thoughts. You know what's interesting, I heard there are medical advancements that can awaken the "empathy" part of the brain in autistic people. Makes me wonder if we could force all of humanity forward with a little chainsaw to open the skull and some probing around. (My Aries Jupiter quintile Aqua Mercury....it shows, right? lol) "Patient #5,568,990? Time for your compassion download." Honestly some people do seem born with it and some don't, whether that's biological, astrological, or something else, who knows. Yet even for people who tend towards compassion, there can be dullness, broken chakras, lack of awareness. I put myself in that category, where I know that I am generally feeling connected to others, but still fail to accurately grasp what's going on, because I don't feel things strongly enough. And I do think that spiritual disciplines geared around improving sensitivity could be helpful for everyone. I mean, animals need to be sensitive just to survive. People need to be sensitive to ensure the whole planet survives. If we could just feel more in tune with everything and less lonely, materialism would die down naturally, I think. Back on track, though: I think the misuse of materialism and failure to address it properly is one of the crimes of religion. Like using virtual slave labor to build cathedrals. Yes it conveys a feeling of grandeur and reminds people that we are such intelligent beings, it's like a mystical intelligence. But do we NEED that crutch, to remember who we are? I just spend my life in these rabbit holes, one after another.  Re: your Mars-Neptune thoughts...thank you again! You've made things so much clearer for me and given me a new way to look at these aspects. I think you perfectly hit the nail on the head.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 21:17:22 GMT
You know what's interesting, I heard there are medical advancements that can awaken the "empathy" part of the brain in autistic people. Makes me wonder if we could force all of humanity forward with a little chainsaw to open the skull and some probing around. (My Aries Jupiter quintile Aqua Mercury....it shows, right? lol) More than any others, people without understanding and compassion need a course of psychedelics - an assured way of seeing the world in a different way and, physiologically, connecting parts of their brain that normally don't interact. |
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