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Post by Ava on Oct 22, 2018 16:14:19 GMT
So much to say about the heliocentric nodes. For now I am just opening up the discussion, in honor of the fact that tropical Mercury is transiting on its heliocentric south node (HSN) today.  Mercury's helio NN is 18°32 Taurus. More to come... |
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Post by glaucus on Feb 16, 2019 6:51:22 GMT
in my chart
SN Mercury in 17'59 Scorpio
SN Mars in 19'20 Scorpio
conjunct Mercury in 18'21 Scorpio
NN Uranus in 13'51 Gemini
square Ascendant in 13'26 Virgo
SN Neptune in 11'28 Aquarius
conjunct NN Moon in 10'30 Aquarius
trine Midheaven in 11'14 Gemini
SN Eris in 5'30 Scorpio
conjunct Sun in 5'20 Scorpio
conjunct Ixion in 5'25 Scorpio
NN Ixion in 10'43 Gemini
conjunct Midheaven in 11'14 Gemini
trine NN Moon in 10'30 Aquarius
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Post by glaucus on Feb 16, 2019 7:00:15 GMT
Here is information on Orbital Astrology, Planetary Nodes from A HANDBOOK FOR THE HUMANISTIC ASTROLOGER by Michael R. Meyer
ORBITAL ASTROLOGY
Orbital astrology, which is very much a part of natal Astrology, involves the consideration of entire planetary orbits and the phenomena created by these orbits when they are related to the ecliptic. In orbital Astrology, the position of a planet on its orbit points to its point of focused release, while the entire orbit defines the realm of the planet. Examination of a planet's orbit reveals four significant points: the two points where a planet contacts its nodes and the points at which it reaches maximum northern latitude and maximum southern latitude.
THE CONCEPT OF THE NODAL AXIS
The points where the plane of a planet's orbit intersects the plane of the ecliptic are referred to as nodes (see Figure 9). The nodes, being one in process but different in function, actually compose an axis--a nodal axis. The north node is the point where the planet intersects the ecliptic as it is moving in a celestial northerly position, while the south node is the point where the orbit intersects the ecliptic as it is moving southward.
The heliocentric system is ordinarily used for the determination of nodes (with the exception of the Moon,as it is a natural geocentric satellite) primarily for the primary reasons: (1) orbital astrology deals with the orbits of the planets (including the earth) as components of whole (solar) system, and (2) the basic polarity of the nodal axis is lost when nodes are determined by the geocentric system.
MEANING OF THE NORTH NODE
The north node of a planet refers to the spiritual power of that planet's function. It is the point of intake of life energies for the growth and building of the bio-psychic organisms connected with the planetary function. It symbolizes direction. When a planet is in the same degree as its north node, it is said to be "powerful" perhaps even destructive and compulsive, as the planetary function represented becomes highly focalized within the consciousness of the individual.
MEANING OF THE SOUTH NODE
The south node refers to the emotional power of the planet's function. It is the point of release of waste contents, which must be disposed of to prevent poisoning of the system--and seed. The south node represents spontaneous action and the root of the planetary function, as well as habitual patterns associated with the planet. When a planet is in the same degree as its south node, its function may be wasted or negatively applied, though it may also be a source of great inner power connected with the planet's function.
Planets Contacting Nodes
When a planet is contacting another planet's nodes, it should become involved in the absorption (north node) and release (south node) of planetary principles represented by the nodes contacted.
Nodal Axis Contacting Horizon
When a planet's nodes are contacting the horizon of of birth-chart, the individual to whom it refers should display the qualities of that planet or may act as agency for the release of the planet's symbol.
Position of the Planetary Nodes unlike lunar nodes (positions for which may be found in astrological ephemerides), planetary nodes are rather static in terms of the zodiac, though very meaningful in terms of house placement.
THE MEANING OF PLANETARY NODES
The north node of a planet represents the body's point of integration and assimilation, while the south node represents the release of the contents of the planet's function and the accumulated past (habit) of the planetary function. If one planet is on another's node, the node will "overtone" the operation of the planet, adding contrast and color to its expression. The one major difference between difference between lunar and planetary nodes is that planetary nodes are almost stationary in terms of zodiacal reference; they all move less than one minute of arc annually. This means that the positions of the nodes in the zodiac refer to how the meaning of that planet should be (or is becoming) manifest within the whole of humanity, in order to meet the call of a collective or planetary need. The house positions of a planetary node, however, refer to how the principle of the particular node relates to the person as an individual and to his or her individual life experiences.
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Post by glaucus on Feb 16, 2019 7:02:33 GMT
Correspondence Course in Astrology by Carl Payne Tobey Lesson #14 Analytical Interpretation Our own statistical investigations gradually led to indications that mere mathematical points (we will supplement this term later), the planetary nodes, are more important than the planets themselves, and this was the beginning of our realization that an entirely new conception of astrology was essential, an astrology unlimited and unhampered by the dogma of modern scientific hypotheses. When you deal with mathematical points, mathematical lines and mathematical planes which can have no material counterpart, you are in the realms of mathematics and abstraction. A mathematical point has no dimensions. A mathematical line has but one dimension. A mathematical plane has but two dimensions. There is no material counterpart until you reach three dimensions, and when you go on to a fourth dimension, you again have no material counterpart. You have again entered the world of abstraction. Because the planetary nodes are even more important than the planets tnemselves, it is important that you understand what a planetary node is. Remember that we used imaginary embroidery hoops to illustrate two planes of space. Put one hoop inside the other, twist one so that one hoop crosses the other at two points. Look at the hoops from above that point where they cross and you see an X. The point where the two hoops cross is the node. The other point where they cross is also a node. It is customary to call one point the north node, the other point the south node. What we call the north node of a planet is that point where the orbit of a planet crosses the plane of the earth's orbit as the planet goes north. The south node is the other point, and when the planet crosses the south node, it is traveling southerly. Actually, no planet ever crosses the earth's orbit. It crosses the plane of the earth's orbit, Therefore it is not strictly true to consider these factors as mathematical points. When referring to a node, an astronomer means that mathematical point where the plane of a planet cuts the earth's orbit, but we could as well consIder the node that mathematical point where the plane of the earth's orbit cuts the planetary orbit. These two points would not be the same in space. One would be at the orbit of the earth while the other would be at the orbit of the planet. However, if we draw a straight line from the Sun to the mathematical point that is furthest away from the Sun, it would of necessity have to pass through the other mathematical point. Thus, the important factor with which we deal becomes not a mathematical point, but a mathematical line drawn from the Sun in opposite directions to infinity. The plane of the earth's orbit and the plane of the planetary orbit join all the way along the line. As computed today, the planetary nodes are considered as heliocentric, those points where the above described line crosses the earth's orbit. However, if we use these points as if they were geocentric, they appear to work. This is easy to understand if we consider that we are dealing with mathematical lines instead of mathematical points. Now, we can draw a new set of lines with the earth as the center to those points where the line above described reaches infinity and their direction must be exactly the same as the direction from the Sun. Such a conception justifies us in using the planetary nodes in our zodiac just as they are given in heliocentric longitude. The planetary nodes have a similar motion, but it is too slow to be significant within a lifetime. The nodes of Mercury circle the zodiac once in something over 171,000 years, while the nodes of Uranus make the trip in about 40,000 years. Oddly, the nodes of some of the outer planets appear to move more rapidly than those of the inner planets. In any event, however, no planetary node moves a degree within 100 years, so you can use the present nodal positions as close enough for any living being. Present north nodal positions are as follows: Planets aspecting these points, or even the lunar nodes aspecting these points, have significance. To have a body conjunct or square the node of a planet appears to be more important than to have it conjunct the planet itself. To come back to nodes, there is a sharp difference between an aspect between two planets and an aspect between a planet and a planetary node. Where an aspect between two planets is involved, each planet seems to retain its own importance, but where an aspect between a planet and a node is concerned (except where the lunar node is involved, and we will touch on that presently), the node seems to completely dominate the planet. Pamela Rowe wrote: "WORLD EVENTS AND FAMOUS PEOPLE If the theory holds water we can expect, when glancing down the list of dates when the Geocentric Sun is conjunct the individual Heliocentric Planetary Nodes, that the dates are close to pivotal world events. Also the birthdays of famous and infamous people, who made or continue to make, an impact on the group consciousness of society. The type of impact made is described by the interpretation of the particular Planetary Node. Dane Rudhyar wrote: It should be clear, however, that these are heliocentric positions. They refer to the intersection of the orbital planes of a planet and of our Earth. This intersection and the nodes it produces symbolize the fundamental relationship between a planet and the Earth considered as two components in the solar system. The relationship has significance in terms of this solar system as vast cosmic field of dynamic existence. When therefore, we apply it to the chart of an individual human being it should be evident that what this relationship - and therefore the planetary north and south nodes - mean in that chart should be referred to the most basic factors in that individual person, i.e., factors that are inherent in the essential destiny of the individual. They are factors which; reach deeper than the natural bio-psychic functions which planets normally represent in a birthchart - just because the planet as a moving small disc of light in the sky is something that the personal consciousness can normally perceive while the entire orbit of that planet is a cosmic fact which transcends sense-perception. mindfire.ca/Person%20Centered%20Astrology/Chapter%20Eighteen%20-%20Orbital%20Astrology%20and%20the%20Nodes.htm Unfortunately, what I consider a basic misconception regarding planetary nodes has recently been introduced into astrological interpretation. At least some astrologers treat them as if they were observable entities like planets. Yet, I repeat, the nodes refer solely to the intersection of orbital planes, and such intersections are neither directly observable nor entities. They are truly metaphysical factors — factors to be calculated by the mind — which deal with space, orbital space.(6) There is obviously some difference between the calculation of lunar and planetary nodes, because the Moon revolves around the Earth, while the planets revolve around the Sun. The basic frame of reference in relation to nodes, however, is neither the Earth nor the Sun, but the Earth's orbit. The only thing that should be considered is where the orbit of any other celestial object intersects the Earth's orbit. This would be the case if we dealt with the intersection of the galactic plane or any other plane of cyclic motion and the Earth's orbit. In the great majority of cases, planetary nodes are of no real meaning in the lives of human beings. They acquire at least potential meaning when a person, as a participant in a sociocultural whole, can be considered a mouthpiece or channel for the operation of collective forces. If the person has reached the stage of individual development at which he or she is actually conscious of what happens through his or her being, then the transpersonal level has been reached; but if there is no consciousness of being an agent of some supersocial and supercultural Power, but only a kind of unconscious mediumship the person still operates at the sociocultural level. www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/aoft/aoft_c3_s7_p1.shtml |
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Post by Ava on Feb 18, 2019 3:51:22 GMT
Thank you glaucus ! For reference, here are the current heliocentric north nodes of planets (tropical): Mercury: 18.33 Taurus Venus: 16.50 Gemini Mars: 19.42 Taurus Jupiter: 10.40 Cancer Saturn: 23.48 Cancer Uranus: 14.08 Gemini Neptune: 12.00 Leo Pluto: 20.33 Cancer To search for heliocentric north nodes of asteroids: www.true-node.com/eph1 If one planet is on another's node, the node will "overtone" the operation of the planet, adding contrast and color to its expression. My Mars @ 16.01 Gemini Rx is on the helio NN of Venus, so maybe it functions similar to a Taurus or Libra Mars? I've made a lot of art in my life. My true NN @ 20.00 Scorpio on the heliocentric south node of Mars. Still trying to figure out what that means. Quoting a few sentences from Carl Payne Tobey, to impress it on my mind: Because the planetary nodes are even more important than the planets tnemselves, it is important that you understand what a planetary node is. ... To have a body conjunct or square the node of a planet appears to be more important than to have it conjunct the planet itself. ... To come back to nodes, there is a sharp difference between an aspect between two planets and an aspect between a planet and a planetary node. Where an aspect between two planets is involved, each planet seems to retain its own importance, but where an aspect between a planet and a node is concerned (except where the lunar node is involved, and we will touch on that presently), the node seems to completely dominate the planet. |
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Post by glaucus on Feb 18, 2019 4:57:27 GMT
"My Mars @ 16.01 Gemini Rx is on the helio NN of Venus, so maybe it functions similar to a Taurus or Libra Mars? I've made a lot of art in my life."
I don't think planets are similar to signs. That's one of the problems that I have with planetary rulerships that Ptolemy came up with. As a person who is into Babylonian Zodiac that was Sidereal, I don't use elements nor planetary rulerships which were not used by Babylonian Astrologers and were introduced by the Hellenistic Astrologers.
I have seen astrologers group a planet,sign,and house in interpretations like they are the same thing. Zipporah Dobyns started that with the Alphabet system. I have seen it with Jeffrey Wolf Green Evolutionary Astrologers, and I strongly disagreed with it.
With the discovery of Pluto's fellow transneptunian objects, I think a can of worms was opened in regards to how Pluto rules Scorpio. Some astrologers consider only Mars as ruler of Scorpio, and some astrologers have the view that Pluto rules Aries based on the planetary pattern of the next sign after (Saturn rules Capricorn, Uranus rules Aquarius, Neptune rules Pisces, and so Pluto rules Aries). There are some Astrologers asserting Chiron rules Virgo and some think Ceres should. There are many objects like Pluto including especially the plutinos that have 2:3 orbital resonance with Neptune like Pluto does. Ixion and Orcus are transneptunian dwarf planet candidates that are plutinos.
Your Mars is Venusian and connected to the collective themes of Venus.
You're more markedly Venusian than those that have Venus aspects.
Because Heliocentric Nodes move only about a degree per century, Heliocentric Nodes have to do with a collective them
when an object,point is aspected by a heliocentric node, it has a connection to collective theme
"To have a body conjunct or square the node of a planet appears to be more important than to have it conjunct the planet itself.
To come back to nodes, there is a sharp difference between an aspect between two planets and an aspect between a planet and a planetary node. Where an aspect between two planets is involved, each planet seems to retain its own importance, but where an aspect between a planet and a node is concerned (except where the lunar node is involved, and we will touch on that presently), the node seems to completely dominate the planet.
To have a body conjunct or square the node of a planet appears to be more important than to have it conjunct the planet itself.
To come back to nodes, there is a sharp difference between an aspect between two planets and an aspect between a planet and a planetary node. Where an aspect between two planets is involved, each planet seems to retain its own importance, but where an aspect between a planet and a node is concerned (except where the lunar node is involved, and we will touch on that presently), the node seems to completely dominate the planet."
SN Mercury in 17'59 Scorpio
SN Mars in 19'20 Scorpio
conjunct Mercury in 18'21 Scorpio
so my Mercury is Mercurial and Martian and is connected collective themes of Mercury and Mars
I am more markedly Mercurial and Martian than those that have Mars aspects
Mercury conjunct its own Node is reinforced Mercury
NN Uranus in 13'51 Gemini
square Ascendant in 13'26 Virgo
so my Ascendant is Uranian and is connected to collective themes of Uranus
I am more marked Uranian than those that have Uranus aspects
SN Neptune in 11'28 Aquarius
conjunct NN Moon in 10'30 Aquarius
trine Midheaven in 11'14 Gemini
so my Midheaven/Imum Coeli and Lunar Node are Neptunian and are connected to collective themes of Neptune
i am more markedly Neptunian than those have Neptune aspects
SN Eris in 5'30 Scorpio
conjunct Sun in 5'20 Scorpio
conjunct Ixion in 5'25 Scorpio
so my Sun and Ixion are Erisian and are connected to collective themes of Eris
I am more markedly Erisian than those that have Eris aspects
NN Ixion in 10'43 Gemini
conjunct Midheaven in 11'14 Gemini
trine NN Moon in 10'30 Aquarius
so my Midheaven/Imum Coeli axis are Ixonian and are connected to collective themes of
I am more markedly Ixionian than those that have Ixion aspects
I do have aspects involving the objects
In regards to Mars:
Venus square Mars
Mercury-Mars square paran
In regards to Uranus:
Midheaven/Imum Coeli trine/sextile Uranus
Lunar Nodes trine/sextile Uranus
In regards to Neptune:
Moon square Neptune
Saturn oppose Neptune
Mercury parallel Neptune in Declination
Venus parallel Neptune in Declination
Saturn contraparallel Neptune in Declination
in regards to Eris:
Midheaven/Imum Coeli sextile/trine Eris
Mercury biquintile Eris
Sun quincunx Eris in 3D chart
Moon semisquare Eris in 3D chart
In regards to Ixion:
Sun conjunct Ixion
Moon trine Ixion
Venus-Ixion conjunction paran
Parans are when two or more objects are on angles at the same time, and they represent a direct and powerful linking of energies
the times that they are rising,setting,transiting the Midheaven, transiting the Imum Coeli factor into them
The Equatorial Coordinates of Right Ascension and Declination help determine parans
I prefer to use parans when dealing with non-ecliptic stars like Sirius,Fomalhaut,Arcturus.
The conjunction and opposition in Right Ascension is significant.
The conjunction and opposition of objects in Right Ascension is significant because they transit both the Midheaven and Imum Coeli at the same time for two parans.
3D Charts take in consider latitude too and not just the longitude like with zodiac aspects, 3D distance between the objects and not the 2D distance between them like in the regular charts
Because of Multi-Dimensional Geometrical Approach to Astrology, I use much narrower orbs than most astrologers.
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Post by Ava on Feb 18, 2019 5:01:15 GMT
In the great majority of cases, planetary nodes are of no real meaning in the lives of human beings. They acquire at least potential meaning when a person, as a participant in a sociocultural whole, can be considered a mouthpiece or channel for the operation of collective forces. If the person has reached the stage of individual development at which he or she is actually conscious of what happens through his or her being, then the transpersonal level has been reached; but if there is no consciousness of being an agent of some supersocial and supercultural Power, but only a kind of unconscious mediumship the person still operates at the sociocultural level. www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/aoft/aoft_c3_s7_p1.shtml Interesting. Here's a video that may dovetail with those thoughts: Edit: We were writing at the same time...will come back to your reply above tomorrow. Thanks. |
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Post by glaucus on Feb 18, 2019 5:09:57 GMT
I have watched that video before. I watch a lot of Dave's videos.
He's very generous with the sharing of his knowledge.
I like and respect him.
I have his Sirius astrology program. I used to have his Kepler astrology program before that.
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Post by lumina on Feb 18, 2019 12:42:45 GMT
Aren`t we mixing systems, if we look up geocentric planets on heliocentric nodes?
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Post by Ava on Feb 18, 2019 14:07:53 GMT
Aren`t we mixing systems, if we look up geocentric planets on heliocentric nodes? Yes I'm out of my depth, but I found this: For some reason that just makes sense to me. |
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Post by lumina on Feb 18, 2019 15:51:47 GMT
Yeah i have Read that, too, some years ago. Just thinking WE need to be aware What WE are doing and that WE are mixing different systems.
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Post by glaucus on Feb 18, 2019 16:48:10 GMT
Aren`t we mixing systems, if we look up geocentric planets on heliocentric nodes? No, and the reason was mentioned in what I posted about what Carl Payne Tobey discussed about the heliocentric planetary nodes. from Carl Payne Tobey: Actually, no planet ever crosses the earth's orbit. It crosses the plane of the earth's orbit, Therefore it is not strictly true to consider these factors as mathematical points. When referring to a node, an astronomer means that mathematical point where the plane of a planet cuts the earth's orbit, but we could as well consider the node that mathematical point where the plane of the earth's orbit cuts the planetary orbit. These two points would not be the same in space. One would be at the orbit of the earth while the other would be at the orbit of the planet. However, if we draw a straight line from the Sun to the mathematical point that is furthest away from the Sun, it would of necessity have to pass through the other mathematical point. Thus, the important factor with which we deal becomes not a mathematical point, but a mathematical line drawn from the Sun in opposite directions to infinity. The plane of the earth's orbit and the plane of the planetary orbit join all the way along the line. As computed today, the planetary nodes are considered as heliocentric, those points where the above described line crosses the earth's orbit. However, if we use these points as if they were geocentric, they appear to work. This is easy to understand if we consider that we are dealing with mathematical lines instead of mathematical points. Now, we can draw a new set of lines with the earth as the center to those points where the line above described reaches infinity and their direction must be exactly the same as the direction from the Sun. Such a conception justifies us in using the planetary nodes in our zodiac just as they are given in heliocentric longitude. Robert Hand discussed the heliocentric and geocentric nodes in An Introduction to The American Heliocentric Ephemeris, 1901-2000 (compiled, programmed and copyright by Neil F. Michelsen, d. 1990) (printed courtesy of ACS Publications) Planetary Nodes. Most astrologers do not think of planetary nodes as being solely of relevance to heliocentric astrology. They are being used geocentrically by several astrologers, at least experimentally (see The Node Book by Zipporah Dobyns). But there are ambiguities in the use of planetary nodes geocentrically that one does not encounter in heliocentric astrology. A geocentric node of a planet is normally defined as the geocentric position of the point in the planetary orbit where the planet crosses the plane of the Earth’s orbit. For purposes of the helio-geo conversion, the nodal point is implicitly defined, therefore, as having the same distance from the Sun that the planet would have were it occupying that position in its orbit. From a strictly astronomical point of view this idea makes sense; but from an astrological point of view it can at least be questioned, in two ways. First of all, one can take the position of Charles A. Jayne and Carl Payne Tobey that the nodes are not to be treated as points in an orbit with a definite distance from the Sun, but as a linear axis formed by the intersection of the two orbital planes. It is a basic principle of geometry that two planes intersecting form an infinite line of inter section. If a node is in fact an axis, then it is an infinite line and, therefore, its geocentric and heliocentric longitudes are identical. Fixed star longitudes are an example of this phenomenon in that, except for a minute parallax correction, the geocentric and heliocentric longitudes are identical. This is because the distances of the fixed stars from our Solar System are so great that they can be treated as if they were infinite. I personally do not know whether this redefinition of the planetary nodes is correct or not. I do know that persons who have investigated the matter have claimed that the heliocentric longitudes of the nodes work as well in the geocentric chart as in the heliocentric chart. It is obviously not a cut-and-dried issue. A second problem in the use of geocentric planetary nodes I consider to be more serious. Looking at the planetary nodes from the point of view of the original definitions outlined above (i.e., as the geocentric positions of the nodal point on the planet’s orbit), the node is apparently intended to be a place where there is an exchange of energy between the planet and the Earth. After all, the node is defined as a place where the planet crosses the Earth’s orbit. If an interchange of energy is real, then this notion is not so much incorrect as incomplete. If a planetary orbit exchanges energy with the Earth by crossing the plane of the Earth’s orbit, then there must also be an exchange of energy whenever the Earth crosses the plane of another planet’s orbit. Heliocentrically, the planet’s node upon the Earth’s orbit and the Earth’s node upon the planet’s orbit line up exactly, so that there is no discrepancy. However, geocentrically there can be a tremendous difference between the two nodes, depending upon how far the Earth is in its orbit from its node upon the planet’s orbital plane. Of course, when the Earth is on this node, the two nodes line up exactly. In my own chart, for instance, the Sun-Earth is on the nodes of Uranus such that the Uranus-on-Earth nodes perfectly coincide with the Earth-on-Uranus nodes. If we are going to continue to use geocentric nodes as originally defined above, we are then obliged, in my opinion, to double the number of nodes being considered so that we have not only the planet-Earth geocentric nodes, but also the Earth-planet geocentric nodes. My main point, however, is that all of these problems disappear when one uses heliocentric coordinates. The nodes as defined conventionally line up with the Jayne/Tobey-defined nodes so that there is no discrepancy. The planet-Earth nodes and the Earth-planet nodes also line up so that there is only one set of planetary nodes for all occasions. Heliocentric astrology simplifies these matters completely. |
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Post by glaucus on Feb 18, 2019 17:09:45 GMT
When the Sun is conjunct a planetary node, the heliocentric and geocentric nodes converge It's a reason why Sun conjunct a planetary node is strong and significant configuration Of course, Robert Hand pointed out: geocentrically there can be a tremendous difference between the two nodes, depending upon how far the Earth is in its orbit from its node upon the planet’s orbital plane. Of course, when the Earth is on this node, the two nodes line up exactly. In my own chart, for instance, the Sun-Earth is on the nodes of Uranus such that the Uranus-on-Earth nodes perfectly coincide with the Earth-on-Uranus nodes. In Robert Hand's astrological nativity: born on 5 December 1942 at 19:30 Place Plainfield, New Jersey 7:30 PM www.astro.com/astro-databank/Hand,_Robert Sun in 13'13 Sagittarius Geo SN Uranus in 13'43 Sagittarius Geo NN Uranus in 13'47 Gemini Earth in 13'13 Gemini/Sagittarius Helio N Uranus in 13'45 Gemini/Sagittarius In my Astrological nativity: October 29, 1971 San Francisco, California 3:20 AM Sun in 5'20 Scorpio Geo SN Eris in 5'29 Scorpio Geo NN Eris in 5'30 Taurus Earth in 5'20 Taurus Helio N Eris in 5'29 Taurus/Scorpio |
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Post by lumina on Feb 18, 2019 17:18:08 GMT
Sun is a special case though. But thanks for the elaboration.
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Post by glaucus on Feb 18, 2019 17:49:20 GMT
Sun is a special case though. But thanks for the elaboration. I know it's a special case I pointed out that it's a strong and significant configuration due to the Earth conjunction of the opposite node and the convergence of the geocentric nodes and heliocentric nodes the main thing to consider is that heliocentric nodes work in geocentric charts if one treats them as a linear axis formed by the intersection of the two orbital planes which leads to geocentric and heliocentric longitudes are identical due to the nodes being infinite lines Robert Hand's Sun conjuncts the Great Attractor, and I have seen a Starseed post that mentioned him having that aspect. The Heliocentric South Uranus Node has been conjuncting the Great Attractor. The exact Sun conjunct South Eris Node/Earth conjunct North Eris Node alignment has been occurring annually on October 29th. Interestingly, it's also the same day that the Sun exactly conjuncts Arcturus in Right Ascension has been occurring annually I do have it myself Sun's RA = 14hr12m10s Arcturus' RA = 14hr14m23s conjunction with 2m13s orb of Sidereal Time that's equivalent to a 33 min of arc April 26th is the day of the exact Sun conjunct North Eris Node/Earth conjunct South Eris Node alignment and the exact Sun oppose Arcturus in Right Ascension |
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Post by Ava on Feb 18, 2019 17:57:29 GMT
Yeah i have Read that, too, some years ago. Just thinking WE need to be aware What WE are doing and that WE are mixing different systems. I'm a visual learner and without being able to visualize all of this, I'm at a loss to comprehend what's really going on, astronomically. Too many intersecting planes. As far as I know, a planet's geo and helio placements are the same when the helio planet is on its helio node, as was the case with last year's July 12th eclipse:  earthsky.org/space/pluto-july-12-2018-opposition-nodes-earth-transitPluto's geocentric position was 20° Cap, helio position 20° Cap. So the systems do connect, when the earth is right on that line of nodes? The earth viewpoint is the same as the sun viewpoint? Edit: Oh right, because the sun was @ 20° Cancer, on Pluto's HNN. Not sure if this is a difficult topic or I'm just really slow. |
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Post by Ava on Feb 18, 2019 18:08:08 GMT
the main thing to consider is that heliocentric nodes work in geocentric charts if one treats them as a linear axis formed by the intersection of the two orbital planes which leads to geocentric and heliocentric longitudes are identical due to the nodes being infinite lines I just wish I could visualize that. I pointed out that it's a strong and significant configuration due to the Earth conjunction of the opposite node and the convergence of the geocentric nodes and heliocentric nodes So that's what happened with the July 12, 2018 eclipse. Roughly speaking, using an ephemeris: Geo NN 20.31 Cancer Helio NN 20.32 Cancer With the transiting geo sun-Pluto opposition on the these geo/helio nodes. |
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Post by glaucus on Feb 18, 2019 18:19:05 GMT
The astronomers referring to intersection of the plane of the Earth’s orbit and a planet’s orbit as line of nodes is very interesting and seems to confirm what Hand, Payne, and Jayne have been making points about.
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Post by Ava on Feb 18, 2019 18:42:26 GMT
I have seen astrologers group a planet,sign,and house in interpretations like they are the same thing. Zipporah Dobyns started that with the Alphabet system. I have seen it with Jeffrey Wolf Green Evolutionary Astrologers, and I strongly disagreed with it. Yes. I'm not enough of an astrologer to have a credible opinion, but seeing one of them say that 5H Neptune is virtually the same as having a Pisces sun, that just bothered me. I don't see it. Your Mars is Venusian and connected to the collective themes of Venus. You're more markedly Venusian than those that have Venus aspects. My life has seemed that way, partly because I'm vocal about my experiences (Gemini). Several people have told me that certain things about my life seem to come straight out of a movie, or a dream. In that way, it may reflect collective notions of what romance/Venusian ideals might entail. Those are peak (NN) experiences and not my everyday life. Also, because it's Mars there, these situations come with challenges. SN Mercury in 17'59 Scorpio SN Mars in 19'20 Scorpio conjunct Mercury in 18'21 Scorpio so my Mercury is Mercurial and Martian and is connected collective themes of Mercury and Mars I am more markedly Mercurial and Martian than those that have Mars aspects Mercury conjunct its own Node is reinforced Mercury This makes sense. Well you've shared a great deal of esoteric (occult/Scorpio) information with us. And thank you for these other examples, very interesting. Parans are when two or more objects are on angles at the same time, and they represent a direct and powerful linking of energies the times that they are rising,setting,transiting the Midheaven, transiting the Imum Coeli factor into them I've never heard of parans before. If there are two planets on different angles, they are connected by "parans"? So on the day I was born, when Jupiter was exact on the MC, Saturn was exact on the ASC. Though I don't have this in my own chart, does that suggest I may have Jupiter and Saturn connected through parans? The Equatorial Coordinates of Right Ascension and Declination help determine parans I don't know how to look this up, does one need special software? |
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Post by lumina on Feb 18, 2019 18:50:37 GMT
so bottom line, we can look up geocentric planets as well as helio planets in respect to helio nodes (and possibly geo nodes as well)?
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