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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2018 20:11:29 GMT
I have recently noticed that the composite only indicates how 2 ppl feel about each other but does not always materialize and Davison is a much better chart for what actually happens.
For example I have a really good composite/synastry with this person but in reality our lives were so different and we never came together; the Davison chart was very scattered.
Also when I do a davison chart of my lunar return and my birth chart, the events that actually happen in that month seem to be much better reflected.
What are your experiences
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Post by Ava on Oct 20, 2018 21:49:10 GMT
I'm not a real astrologer so my opinion is pretty basic. But I look at charts every single day.
Composites are typically more intelligible to me...there's usually a more pleasing aesthetic to them, an actual reflection of the dynamics that brought the people together (midpoint pictures). For that reason I consider them a better representation of the energies at play in the relationship.
A Davison chart is just a point in time. Someone born in that time is a singular entity. One person. Meanwhile, a composite is always a blend of two charts and therefore automatically more symbolic of a relationship.
Each natal connects mathematically to the composite, but it doesn't connect the same way to the Davison. I don't even know the reason people put stock in Davison charts, except as a sort of novelty. It reminds me of the way we consider ingress charts, discovery charts for asteroids, or return charts. "This passing moment has some relevance to the ongoing phenomenon."
I think the composite is the ongoing phenomenon, the actual map of integration. The Davison just sheds some additional light on it.
Again, pardon my uneducated opinions.
It's similar to my strong preference for draconic charts over helio, it's based more on experience than rhetoric.
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Post by lumina on Oct 21, 2018 10:21:05 GMT
Ava I`ve been observing both charts for several years, and while having been tilting more to Davison in the beginning, thinking it would be more telling, was coming to the same conclusion as you did (which came as a surprise to me). And btw your is not an uneducated opinion at all. You`re maybe more of an astrologer than some who claim they are and take money for their expertise.  You are investing time and energy and observation into the craft. I could quote your whole post but I won`t. lol Oh and love your picture.  EDIT I have not given up on Davisons however. I keep observing them, as they ARE intersting charts and sometimes are very matching. I am open to coming to the insight that both, composites and Davisons, have their merit and validity, but in different ways. The composite are much closer to the personal charts and reflect the energy between people acutely, and if being triggered, will describe the physical manifestation very clearly and also when it happens. But that is the thing with all basic charts in astrology (including synastry), you need a trigger to pull certain parts of it into manifestation. the most beautiful synastry will remain a dormant potential and "it could be so nice", unless being activated. (transits, progressions, curiously even lunar returns. lol I mean mine had just started with LR ASC on 11 Gemini and I met a guy with natal Venus on 10 Gemini and Sun on 13 Gemini - just a short crossing-paths- in time, but I found it hilarious; well P`s pr Moon is at 11 Gemini currently and I have of course met him too, on that occasion). Well I have observed the Davisons of events and natal, and while some are matching very well, others are not at all. The composites were far more reliable in this regard, which makes even astronomical sense, as if we find a conjunction or opposition in the composite of an event and our natal chart, it means that the transits of this day reflect/ mirror our natal relationship between these planets exactly, not always an actual aspect, but the angular distance, and hence the outside mirrors the inside, and brings out the potential of manifesting in real life. For example I have a Venus-Pluto-square natally, and if that is being repeated in the sky, with the same orb I have between those planets, then this results in a Venus-Pluto-conjunction in the event-composite (there is importance however if this both in the same phase, waxing or waning, or in the complimentary phase. complimentary phases result in the conjunction/opposition, same phases will result in the same aspect being repeated - the square in my instance). And yes, whenever that happens, I feel it, definitely and often it is triggered from something coming from the outside, mostly from another person.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2018 16:21:11 GMT
I definitely agree that Ava you know what you are taking about As with reading charts as a skill, I think it is attainable over the years and there’s no way to qualify someone. I do it at a minimum rate to continue to learn and offering my services to someone else. It hardly covers my time and energy. I’m aware that the YouTube astrologers can charge a few hundred bucks tho |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2018 19:46:02 GMT
On another note AvaOther than a day in between the time 2 ppl were born, the Davison also indicates how two ppl negotiate their generational or timely differences and how easy it is to negotiate and compromise with one another. I believe we were born as a product of a consummation of our parents and as a reaction to time ( hence generational planets). Say I J’s e some difficulty resolving my relationship with generational concepts (square to generational planets) and another person born a few years earlier have similar but also different difficulties to generational energy, then we can come together and understand our relationship to the world a little bit better. I have 2 stelliums so my composite tend to have clusters of energy that do not always reflect the reality of the relationship |
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Post by Ava on Oct 22, 2018 15:53:41 GMT
On another note Ava Other than a day in between the time 2 ppl were born, the Davison also indicates how two ppl negotiate their generational or timely differences and how easy it is to negotiate and compromise with one another. I believe we were born as a product of a consummation of our parents and as a reaction to time ( hence generational planets). Aren't generational planets typically located in the same place, in Davison and composite? So in what way do they differ, can you give examples? |
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Post by Ava on Oct 22, 2018 15:56:27 GMT
Ava Oh and love your picture. LOL -- thanks. As my sun progresses into Pisces, I find myself wanting to drink more, not on purpose or to be the cliche...I really want to drink alcohol every night, because emotions are becoming more important to me, and that's how I loosen up and feel more. Anyway I was slightly drunk when I put up that pic of myself. The thought was, "If I'm going to be saying all this stuff, I should be more accountable. More fully myself." It was just a passing moment though. #Mutable |
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Post by Ava on Oct 22, 2018 16:09:04 GMT
I have not given up on Davisons however. I keep observing them, as they ARE intersting charts and sometimes are very matching. I am open to coming to the insight that both, composites and Davisons, have their merit and validity, but in different ways. The composite are much closer to the personal charts and reflect the energy between people acutely, and if being triggered, will describe the physical manifestation very clearly and also when it happens. Do you suppose there's a difference between transits to the composite and Davison, in the way they manifest? I'm so partial to the one over the other that I'm really mystified by astrologers who say you can just use them interchangeably. I mean, how flippant. The charts are dissimilar so they must have their own unique meanings. Yet I've never landed on an explanation that stuck and seemed true. *searching now* Okay I'll try this... |
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Post by lumina on Oct 22, 2018 16:11:04 GMT
WE can Change our mind. Anyway i am Sure You can feel alot without drinking. Hmm my Venus entered pisces But i do Not feel Like drinking. Well unless IT IS a Cocktail with much cream of course. Love me a Pina Colada now and then.
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Post by lumina on Oct 22, 2018 16:18:38 GMT
To be honest i think most use Them without understanding Them or their different meaning. I honestly do Not know. I am partial to the composite because it does Not only Match reality butbi understand IT. It's Concert, the Relation to the natals etc. Davison Seems more artificial or Esoteric to me. What does the midpoint in time has to so with me and another? But maybe IT has, maybe our Astro DNA IS inscribed in that day and so the midpoint in time IS, too. I so Not know. Maybe. Well about the composite i know itvis valid and why and how (and also thatcwe probably interprete IT at least partially wrong or at least lose sight of what itvreally IS).
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Post by Ava on Oct 22, 2018 20:05:52 GMT
lumina "Davison Seems more artificial or Esoteric to me." Jewel says it's two versions of the same story and can give you a more complete picture of the relationship, and the more you read charts, the better you'll get at spotting those themes and drawing conclusions. *shrug* I guess I'm not there yet. All I know is, I like her t-shirt a lot. edit
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Post by lumina on Oct 22, 2018 20:35:27 GMT
Ava as I said I am not dismissing Davison charts entirely. I just know that composites work and why and how. About Davisons I am not entirely sure, but I can say for certain that the Solar Return of our Davison seems to have been spot on. On the other hand making a Davison of the Davison chart and the natal to see what the relationship means to each person, does not really seem to reflect reality. Maybe it does not work because it doubles one natal? While with time composites or time Davisons, there is just the ingredient of one transit chart and one natal? Or even a transit chart and the Davison? But not doubling the same chart, like in a Davison of a Davison with the natal? Might not be an argument against Davison, but the mehtods of Mark-charts.
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Post by lumina on Oct 22, 2018 20:40:47 GMT
And as I said, yes it could of course be, that the birthdate contains all our astrological DNS and therefore the midpoint in time and space works - actually Dawn Bodrogi as well as Robert Blashke also said they worked, but unlike the composite, which is just about the meshing of energies/ midpoints (meaningful of course and closely related to the natals, emphasizing themes stemming from the personal charts and their direct combination), the DAvison is of course an actual existing chart, a natal chart, and I think that is the reason that both Bodrogi as well as Blashke related it more to the here and now reality, circumstances, event-character. Like in a composite you might be able to spot an emotional connection, a feeling, maybe even love, and the Davison might indicate marriage, as a manifestation of that energy in the physical. On the other hand, unlike @theunknown , I ahve found the composite manifesting int he Here and Now very much so, if triggered. The reason for that is that it is a midpoint chart, and if a composite DESC is being triggered, it means that both natal DESC`s are somehow activated or affected as well. So it is really difficult for me to differentiate. As for event Davisons. Well some seem to miss the mark so far (but of course maybe I was just not looking into the right direction ).... and yet at other times the event Davisons have blown my mind. So for me it is really difficult to make a decision there. |
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Post by Ava on Oct 22, 2018 20:42:03 GMT
So much to explore here, lumina ! It really is intellectually aggravating to me, to be asked to juggle TWO relationship-amalgam charts. I can deal with all kinds of charts, but two charts with the same exact purpose, almost? Draco Davisons continue to amaze me as I delve into my database. Like my parent's draco Davison sun @ 25° Libra is almost exactly conjunct my father's sun and my tropical Davison sun with my husband. And my rectified IC and draco Mars and other stuff. |
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Post by lumina on Oct 22, 2018 20:44:16 GMT
BTW Draco DAvison has Moon on 28 Sagittarius, opposing tropical Sun on 27 Gemini, with Draco DAvison Moon conjunct P`s Moon exact and the Davison Sun falling onto his IC exact.
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Post by Ava on Oct 22, 2018 20:48:21 GMT
Like in a composite you might be able to spot an emotional connection, a feeling, maybe even love, and the Davison might indicate marriage, as a manifestation of that energy in the physical. Without meaning to ignore the whole, interesting post....I think this might be true. (Especially draco Davison....sorry to be a commercial....but WOW). |
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Post by Ava on Oct 22, 2018 20:49:39 GMT
BTW Draco DAvison has Moon on 28 Sagittarius, opposing tropical Sun on 27 Gemini, with Draco DAvison Moon conjunct P`s Moon exact and the Davison Sun falling onto his IC exact. Yeah...SEE?! |
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Post by lumina on Oct 22, 2018 20:59:13 GMT
Ava I understand that, I always want to say either... or. lol Talking about the Solar Return, our Davison Solar return was in the mid of june, and well, things always seem to shift around this time (though the other time things seem to shift or happen is around our composite Solar Return, or actually both our Solar Returns. lol), I mean it was just 2 weeks after that or even less that suddenly our interactions started to explode, at least for a time. lol Or maybe they still are, I mean I ahven`t seen him that frequently ever before. We have a bit of a "complicated" or "complex" Davison, but then again that just matches reality, doesn`t it?   You remember our accidental "coffee-date"? This was its event chart.  I mean alone the fact that transiting Moon was joining the party, and acting as a trigger! It`s just difficult to ignore that. Of course there were crazy overlays to our composite as well, so it is never easy or black and white I suppose.
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Post by Ava on Oct 22, 2018 23:03:42 GMT
I mean alone the fact that transiting Moon was joining the party, and acting as a trigger! It`s just difficult to ignore that. That is wild! |
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Post by lumina on Oct 23, 2018 9:25:29 GMT
Ava Tr Sun on your Davison Mars-Saturn when you manifested something in real life is very fitting. Of course Saturn can be restrictive, but sometimes it just helps solidifying Martian impulses and work something out. For P and me when I first attended a workshop with him Tr Moon had been conjunct our Davison Saturn. (along with tr Jupiter-Uranus-opposition falling onto our nodal axis, squaring Moon - but then again this is something that it has in common with composite; Tr Mercury on our ASC, Tr Pluto 3 degrees after our ASC; Tr Karma on Atropos and trine Karma exact) As for our coffeedate there was: Tr Mercury-MC conjunct Saturn Tr Venus conjunct Ceres exact and square Eros Tr Jupiter conjunct Juno exact Tr Saturn conjunct Eros and trine Pallas and trine Chiron, basically activating the Grand trine Tr Uranus trine Eros Tr Neptune trine Juno Tr Chiron opposite Ceres Tr Eros conjunct Venus exact Tr Atropos conjunct NN (1 degree) anyway the Davison Saturn seems to be rather sensitive to transits it seems. that is basically what we are dealing with 
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You are investing time and energy and observation into the craft. 